I disagree, simply because TLOU is more polished, fun and actually treat it's characters a people, you mentioned GOW4 in your previous post which is also inspired by TLOU's simple story but complex characters as Corey Barlog have stated in an interview.I can't agree with TLoU. It squandered its nature as a video game to tell an engrossing story with the limitations and benefits that this medium contains. Look at NieR or Automata. Both use the fact that they are games to help elevate and push the story far beyond what could be done otherwise. Literally everything in TLoU could have been done on a TV show, film, or book and nothing would have been lost.
I agree with you about NieR Automata. I like games when they use their medium to tell their stories and this also true with games like team ICO games.I can't agree with TLoU. It squandered its nature as a video game to tell an engrossing story with the limitations and benefits that this medium contains. Look at NieR or Automata. Both use the fact that they are games to help elevate and push the story far beyond what could be done otherwise. Literally everything in TLoU could have been done on a TV show, film, or book and nothing would have been lost.
Nier and Ico/Shadow/LastGuardian are prime examples of storytelling exclusively in videogames.I agree with you about NieR Automata. I like games when they use their medium to tell their stories and this also true with games like team ICO games.
Good videogame storytelling doesn't necessarily need what is perceived as writing.
Indeed. Environmental storytelling works well.
Re-read what I wrote and put a /s at the bottom.Is that a joke?
I disagree, simply because TLOU is more polished, fun and actually treat it's characters a people, you mentioned GOW4 in your previous post which is also inspired by TLOU's simple story but complex characters as Corey Barlog have stated in an interview.
Nier/Automata works against it self by wanting to tell a grim story, trying to appeal to anime fans with the character designs and oniichan/imouto dynamic, and having absoultly no idea how to make a fun game.
IMO Nier/Automata only achievment that deserves to be praised is it's Ost which elevates the experience and makes it bearable.
the only thing 99% videogame wrtiers do is make up reasons for the player to murder a bunch of people/monster/etc. that is why videogame writing, in comparison to other forms, is a joke.
I did beat Automata and the original Nier, and i even chosen to delete my save like what happened in the original, the brother/sister dynamic was in the JP version Replicant, and was change to fit the western "sensibilities" to a father/daughter relationship, removed the sexual undertones and made the whole time skip growth and Kaine romance awkward, and the brother/sister dynamic was absoultly repeated between 9S and 2B along with the sexual tension that was present on Replicant, and that was my problem 0OG Nier was a decent game with a great story/OST and decent combat with horrid everything else.You stated, "truth is games like TLOU, UC etc do thier job very well and use thier medium well" which is not true. TLOU did nothing that couldn't be replicated just as well, if not better in other mediums. God of War did take advantage of its video game nature, from its single take view point, its use of having both Kratos and Boy work off each other and refuse to work together at certain points to better fit the story, and the entire scene when you obtain a specific weapon - all of which fit perfectly for the strong story and a great blend with its medium.
NieR Automata is not just a grim story. 2B, 9S, A2, Pascal, White, and the rest of the cast have nothing to do with this inane "imouto/oniichan" dynamic like you claim. The game is plenty fun with excellent boss designs, great customization and unique methods of limiting player growth. Did you even *beat* the game (as in obtain ending D and E)? It really seems like you haven't considering the sheer ignorance you have shown in this post of yours.
I mean... how is that any different than action films like Rambo or horror films like Friday the 13th? Books like IT or Hunger Games?
Ironically enough, the most interesting gaming stories come from players of games that allow for emergent stories to unfold. Like that dude who played a Civ II match for like 20 years and wrote about it. Detailing basically the rise of three great nations in a nuclear hellhole of a planet with melted polar caps. Or how about those stories from Eve Online players. I remember reading about some dude robbing the biggest player-driven bank by using intrigue and selling that shit on ebay. Or even funny stories of stuff that happened to players in the very first The Sims.
Most movies do too.
The last academy award for best picture went to some generic cliche "they don't like each other at first but then they do" story with the groundbreaking message of "racism is bad" and where every other scene felt like the writers were watching Brooklyn 99 and went "hey, those captain Holt scenes are pretty funny, let's do that".
The year before that it was the chick that fucked a fish
And yet most video games still have worse writing than Hollywood movies. Imagine that. I wasn't trying to say Hollywood has good writing or anything.Writers with actual talent write books. Even Hollywood has mostly bad to mediocre writers...
I love how since the beginning of gaming you listed about 10 games with writing that you say is good. 2 of them are visual novels and most of them are japanese. If you think RDR 2 has good writing go watch an actual good western movie. None of these games even compete with the writing in actual good movies or books. All these games are like the fucking special Olympics compared to books or movies. VN's are basically just books so they better have decent writing....What? So Clannad, Witcher 2 and 3, To The Moon, Red Dead Redemption 2, Steins;Gate, Final Fantasy IX, God of War 4, Metal Gear Solid 2 and 3, Final Fantasy XIV Heavensward and Shadowbringers - just to name a few - are all considered shit writing?
No, there are amazing writers and brilliant stories in gaming, but the issue is that they are spread across the world. So of course an American-based Union award ceremony won't have even a third of all those fantastic games.
Pretty much confirms - for me - that writing in videogames is much ado about nothing.
BUSHYIt may be so; but yet my inward soul
Persuades me it is otherwise: howe'er it be,
I cannot but be sad; so heavy sad
As, though on thinking on no thought I think,
Makes me with heavy nothing faint and shrink.
QUEEN'Tis nothing but conceit, my gracious lady.
'Tis nothing less: conceit is still derived
From some forefather grief; mine is not so,
For nothing had begot my something grief;
Or something hath the nothing that I grieve:
'Tis in reversion that I do possess;
But what it is, that is not yet known; what
I cannot name; 'tis nameless woe, I wot.
And than Half Life happened.
And yet most video games still have worse writing than Hollywood movies. Imagine that. I wasn't trying to say Hollywood has good writing or anything.
I love how since the beginning of gaming you listed about 10 games with writing that you say is good. 2 of them are visual novels and most of them are japanese. If you think RDR 2 has good writing go watch an actual good western movie. None of these games even compete with the writing in actual good movies or books. All these games are like the fucking special Olympics compared to books or movies. VN's are basically just books so they better have decent writing.
I did beat Automata and the original Nier, and i even chosen to delete my save like what happened in the original, the brother/sister dynamic was in the JP version Replicant, and was change to fit the western "sensibilities" to a father/daughter relationship, removed the sexual undertones and made the whole time skip growth and Kaine romance awkward, and the brother/sister dynamic was absoultly repeated between 9S and 2B along with the sexual tension that was present on Replicant, and that was my problem 0OG Nier was a decent game with a great story/OST and decent combat with horrid everything else.
Automata was a mediocre Platinum action title with combat as deep as a puddle and i unironically like the OG combat with it's magic arms more then the one made by the supposed best action developer.
We'll agree to disagree on UC and TLOU.
I know but you play them for the story. If they didn't have a good story they'd be worthless. It's different in western games especially where it's all 'duhhhhhh retard american save da worl. da end'. You don't play a VN for the gameplay. I mean I love the stuff in AA but you get my point.VN's are still video games. Danganronpa, Ace Attorney, Shikkoku no Sharnoth - all of which have extensive gameplay sections.
I guess. Japanese games have some cringey dialogue but at least they have some interesting stuff going on.And no shit most of what I listed were Japanese. They have some of the best writing in gaming (given they focused on narrative long before the west and continue to do), hence why I said what I said at the very end of that post.
Those are all basically the same thing lmaoTake The Last of Us as an example. Cliche, trope-ridden, predictable, derivative..............
He never made games, he made engines/tools.What is Carmack doing these days? Oh yea, he isn't making games.
I mean TLOU still shits on Hollywood zombie/end of world contemporariesVideo games have shit writing. All the writers that actually have talent write for hollywood or other places. I mean look at TLOU. It was so highly praised and why? It's just some generic cliche hollywood bullshit.
9S a young Boy who looks up to 2B the older girl, it's start as a younger brother/older sister regular anime trope, and i did play the game on hard Bayonetta/DMC this is not, the weapons aren't weighty and don't feel as impactful, there are only a handful of combos and the use of the weapons is as basic as you can get, in short it's budget Bayonetta just like all of Platinum's licensed games.VN's are still video games. Danganronpa, Ace Attorney, Shikkoku no Sharnoth - all of which have extensive gameplay sections. I simply listed my two personal favorite ones that were translated to English. I am a massive fan of
There were never any sexual undertones between Yonah and brother Nier. The only way you could have gotten this would be through a terrible fan translation or for horribly misreading the JPN text. Agree with the Gestalt changes, however this was not brought up or mentioned in the original post.
You stated that NieR Automata had a "brother/sister" relationship between 9S and 2B, which is why I questioned if you even played the game as they have no such relationship. In none of the extended media, interviews, or in the game itself (JPN or ENG) is this seen. As for the combat "as deep as a puddle", you must have played on easy mode. Playing on the hard or very hard modes would show how ignorant that statement of yours is.
That not true at all, maybe that how you personally saw it. 9S’s operator 210 was the one exploring family side of human relationship and trying to be mother to 9S. You see that in 210’s quest about why humans living together in apartments and why 210 starts talking very child like to 9S in Route C.9S a young Boy who looks up to 2B the older girl, it's start as a younger brother/older sister regular anime trope.
Thier relationship is complicated and can be seen as many things, some take Adam's "You want to **** 2B" as 9S lusting after her, some say **** is "kill", a lot of it is left to the players to deduce by themselves, i didn't see as romantic seeing as they both lack the function to make it possible.That not true at all, maybe that how you personally saw it. 9S’s operator 210 was the one exploring family side of human relationship and trying to be mother to 9S. You see that in 210’s quest about why humans living together in apartments and why 210 starts talking very child like to 9S in Route C.
That’s exactly what like Automata and most Yoko Taro’s games story telling. Yoko Taro doesn’t write his story like his writing for Hollywood movie, his writing for a video game and uses gameplay as a tool to tell his stories.Thier relationship is complicated and can be seen as many things, some take Adam's "You want to **** 2B" as 9S lusting after her, some say **** is "kill", a lot of it is left to the players to deduce by themselves, i didn't see as romantic seeing as they both lack the function to make it possible.
Doom 3 was very story heavy.
Good videogame storytelling doesn't necessarily need what is perceived as writing.
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ah!All the writers that actually have talent write for hollywood
The Witness.
Are you arguing this has good storytelling? I haven't played it.
Yes, yes, yes, a million times yes!the only thing 99% videogame wrtiers do is make up reasons for the player to murder a bunch of people/monster/etc. that is why videogame writing, in comparison to other forms, is a joke.
But we aren't talking about Netflix original showsMe, watching people having slap fights over the medium with the worst writing in entertainment.
or, as with sports, the stories emerge from the interplay between players and rules. You don't need arcs, climaxes, acts, etc to have some really great, memorable ’stories’. in fact, i’d argue the inclusion of heavy story elements reduces the game part and makes it ‘interactive entertainment’, which is more disposable and less compelling.
This is probably why the most popular and profitable games in the world (minecraft, fornite, etc) are not 15 hour cinematic type games: infinite stories.
Dude JRPG is my favorite genre, i just don't like when a story/setting wants to be taken seriously and filled to the brim with nihilism and then the devs are like "hey we got sell this somehow so make that hermaphrodite wear a Victoria's secret lingerie and make that robot wear a lolita maid outfit with her ass showing".I will agree that it's got a lot of anime-influence going on. The characters do largely feel like children to me, which is to say that they're similar in spirit to some shounen anime I've seen. I accept people ( Rean no Kiseki ) might find it jarring if they don't like that style (or Japanese media in general). Character designs are obviously the most visually telling aspect.
That's not storytelling, as there is no story and no characters. If your entire plot is "random player shoots someone else in the face" then that is not a plot. Just say you don't like stories in games and leave cinematic games alone.
Of course not.But we aren't talking about Netflix original shows
This might be the worst opinion ever made on this forum.All the writers that actually have talent write for hollywood or other places