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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Fake

Member
Dude... Jaguar really sucks... and what I read is take into consideration they're not even optimize codes yet. Early PS4 have their early problems too, but in end life became a really good delivery.

I can't remember any tech site not speaking bad about jaguar. Zen indeed will take the show.
 
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demigod

Member
And again, nothing about GCN 8TF. So just "lol rofl DF is butthurt from Sony not giving them scoops from their unannounced console"

I am sure, going by Cernys BC patent, that CU number and their frequency is very tightly connected. In fact, latest Oban leak suggest clock speeds matching PS4 and Pro, so we are certainly moving in that direction.

That IS GCN fool. You really are ignorant.
 

R600

Banned
That IS GCN fool. You really are ignorant.
No, no it isnt. You and Negotiator can harp all you want about it, bring your conspiracy theories, but fucking Gonzalo code leak was a reason for this video that you linked, and it contains "Navi10" reference in its code.

So no, they talked about 36-40CUs, especially in light of Sonys patent for BC that REQUIRES frequency match not to break a game code (thats the famous "butterfly" design and downclocking of clocks in Pro).

Not gonna reply anymore, you guys continue with "Sony got them butthurt with Wired artivle and now they are lowballing lol rofl".
Even though, as you now imply, their low balling came even before Wired annoncement, so which one is it?
 

demigod

Member
No, no it isnt. You and Negotiator can harp all you want about it, bring your conspiracy theories, but fucking Gonzalo code leak was a reason for this video that you linked, and it contains "Navi10" reference in its code.

So no, they talked about 36-40CUs, especially in light of Sonys patent for BC that REQUIRES frequency match not to break a game code (thats the famous "butterfly" design and downclocking of clocks in Pro).

Not gonna reply anymore, you guys continue with "Sony got them butthurt with Wired artivle and now they are lowballing lol rofl".
Even though, as you now imply, their low balling came even before Wired annoncement, so which one is it?

He referenced STADIA ffs. You were proven wrong, so suck it up cupcake.
 
Dude... Jaguar really sucks... and what I read is take into consideration they're not even optimize codes yet. Early PS4 have their early problems too, but end life became a really good delivery.

I can't remember any tech site not speaking bad about jaguar. Zen indeed will take the show.
Jaguar sucks compared to PCMR CPUs (i5/i7, not i3). But saying that it sucks compared to PS360 CPUs is highly ignorant. So yes, DF (as the biggest tech-focused channel) is responsible for spreading ignorance.

PPE sucked compared to 2005 PCMR CPUs (Pentium 4, Athlon 64). It has always been that way.

In fact, in-order PPE was as fast as in-order Intel Atom (a freaking mobile CPU) running at half the frequency: https://www.7-cpu.com/

How many people know that? And yet, they're here to judge willy-nilly...

PS1 CPU performance was between 386 and 486, while 1995 PCs already had Pentium 1. The difference was that few people could do the comparison back then, due to different ISAs.

Just because PCs are easier to get these days and x86 is more widespread, it doesn't mean we shouldn't educate ourselves properly. That's all I'm saying.
 
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Tygeezy

Member
Yeah 12 teraflops, why is that so hard to believe? You guys have no idea what's coming, this is going to be the Golden age in video games history, the stuff I'm seeing when I go to work everyday just blows my mind! Microsoft and Sony know what they are doing they are rolling out powerful machines and most likely will charge $600 but this is going to usher in a new era where anything can be destructible and anything can be ray-traced with ultra real textures. I really can't give anything too detailed otherwise I could get fired.
Are both going to embrace gyroscope next gen?
 

LordOfChaos

Member
I've decided that the last thing ever uttered by humanity will be in debate of the Cell processor...somehow.


You dont know basics. IPC of PPC core (last gen) was severely down. In fact, it was down on CPUs from back in 2005 and they where not even OOO.
What these CPUs had was massive amount of GFLOPs for its time and 6-7 cores with 3.2Ghz clocks when best CPUs where Athlons 64 running at 2.2Ghz and on one core.

So there where ALOT of performance to tap into. When Jaguar cores came out, they where used as mobile chips, and clocked at 1.6Ghz (half that of PS360) while 7th gen where seen as completely new paradigm.

So, apples and oranges. In terms of actual performance there is big gulf between Jaguar based CPU and one based on Zen2, but not in case of Jaguar and Cell/PPC, because they worked completely different.

Here's how I like to put this. This is a basic breadth-First Search on a standard x86 CPU.

Code:
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <string.h>
#include <unistd.h>

/* ... */

/* the graph */
vertex_t * G;

/* number of vertices in the graph */
unsigned card_V;

/* root vertex (where the visit starts) */
unsigned root;

void parse_input( int argc, char** argv );

int main(int argc, char ** argv)
{
  unsigned *Q, *Q_next, *marked;
  unsigned  Q_size=0, Q_next_size=0;
  unsigned  level = 0;

  parse_input(argc, argv);
  graph_load();

  Q      =
          (unsigned *) calloc(card_V, sizeof(unsigned));
  Q_next =
          (unsigned *) calloc(card_V, sizeof(unsigned));
  marked =
          (unsigned *) calloc(card_V, sizeof(unsigned));

  Q[0] = root;
  Q_size  = 1;
  while (Q_size != 0)
    {
      /* scanning all vertices in queue Q */
      unsigned Q_index;
      for ( Q_index=0; Q_index<Q_size; Q_index++ )
      {
        const unsigned vertex = Q[Q_index];
        const unsigned length = G[vertex].length;
        /* scanning each neighbor of each vertex */
        unsigned i;
      for ( i=0; i<length; i++)
          {
            const unsigned neighbor =
              G[vertex].neighbors[i];
      if( !marked[neighbor] ) {
            /* mark the neighbor */
            marked[neighbor]      = TRUE;
            /* enqueue it to Q_next */
            Q_next[Q_next_size++] = neighbor;
          }
        }
      }
      level++;
      unsigned * swap_tmp;
      swap_tmp    = Q;
      Q           = Q_next;
      Q_next      = swap_tmp;
      Q_size      = Q_next_size;
      Q_next_size = 0;
    }
  return 0;
}


That's 60 lines. Now, the Cell would do it way faster than that CPU at the time (which happened to be a Pentium 4), but to port that over to an SPU, unroll all the loops, provide hinting in stead of hardware prefetching and speculative execution, that 60 lines became 1200 lines on an SPU.

Could you argue there were cases where the Cell would outgun the Jaguar in the 8th gen, sure, you could absolutely make a case. But with current silicon budgets and programmer ease, Jaguar was a far better choice for the 8th gen.

This wasn't "lazy developers", everything in our capitalist world has a budget in money or time, and all this would just be a waste of effort for the marginal cases where the Cell would post a gain in the 8th gen, meanwhile the Jaguar would bring the bottom line performance case way up.
 

Fake

Member
Jaguar sucks compared to PCMR CPUs (i5/i7, not i3). But saying that it sucks compared to PS360 CPUs is highly ignorant. So yes, DF (as the biggest tech-focused channel) is responsible for spreading ignorance.

PPE sucked compared to 2005 PCMR CPUs (Pentium 4, Athlon 64). It has always been that way.

In fact, in-order PPE was as fast as in-order Intel Atom (a freaking mobile CPU) running at half the frequency: https://www.7-cpu.com/

How many people know that? And yet, they're here to judge willy-nilly...

PS1 CPU performance was between 386 and 486, while 1995 PCs already had Pentium 1. The difference was that few people could do the comparison back then, due to different ISAs.

Just because PCs are easier to get these days and x86 is more widespread, it doesn't mean we shouldn't educate ourselves properly. That's all I'm saying.

Thats the point you still don't get. Its not about comparison or even Jaguar vs Other CPU. I not even make any comparison here. Jaguar sucks because he sucks. And you're too much focus in numbers, but changing the CPU architecture was a great move for make devs tools more friendly.
Look, you can't just keep comparing CPUs from older gens and forgetting how bad they're in terms of dev tools. Moving for x86 really helps the devs life and this can't be deny.

Remember, its not just about CPU or numbers, it's about all in one packet. That's the console strength.
 
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Thats the point you still don't get. Its not about comparison or even Jaguar vs Other CPU. I not even make any comparison. Jaguar sucks because he sucks. And you're too much focus in numbers, but changing the CPU architecture was a great move for make devs tools more friendly.
Look, you can't just keep comparing CPUs from older gens and forgetting how bad they're in terms of dev tools. Moving for x86 really helps the devs life and this can't be deny.

Remember, its not just a CPU or numbers, it's about all in one packet. That's the console strength.
This doesn't make much sense to me (a comparison is necessary in technical discussions, you can't just vaguely say it sucks because it sucks, you need a relative point of reference), or perhaps there's a language barrier, otherwise you would get the gist of my posts.

Anyway, carry on.
 

MadAnon

Member
I was going off by what 2 others have side in this thread. But since you 2 are so inclined for the video, I had to look it up to confirm it since nobody bothered to link it before when SonGoku SonGoku asked for it. Your RECEIPTS RIGHT HERE. You can watch it and Richard does try to imply the PS5 will use the same compute units as the Pro for compatibility. And yes, DF are butthurt :messenger_tears_of_joy: . They're not getting the scoop from Sony, mark my words they will get the scoop from MS.


LMFAO!! Did you even watch the video yourself? At no point he implys that Ps5 will use GCN CUs. He just analyzes the Gonzolo leak.

What a monumental fail. And then calls DF butthurt. Just take the L and move on.
 
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I stopped reading here. You didn't even bother reading what I posted.

It's a waste of time arguing with some people. Have fun with yourself.
DF is not "butthurt" you are.
14TF for launch unit definitely not :) , but Maybe sony has plans to launch PS5 Pro along standard PS5, with lets say 2x 5700 (5800) glued together and 700-800$ price. Then I would expect 14-16TF
2x 5700 is 19.5tf, so 5800 is defenitely not that, might be 56CU which is 13.6tf (i think).
I was going off by what 2 others have side in this thread. But since you 2 are so inclined for the video, I had to look it up to confirm it since nobody bothered to link it before when SonGoku SonGoku SonGoku SonGoku asked for it. Your RECEIPTS RIGHT HERE. You can watch it and Richard does try to imply the PS5 will use the same compute units as the Pro for compatibility.
he said :"the ps4 pro shipped with 36CU which maybe a good match for Sony BC that would give us 8.3tf"
then he continued by presenting these other possibility's: 9.2 - 10,1 - 11,1 - 12,0 - 12,9 - 13,8 - 14,7.
now the part you missed is that he said "10tf to 12tf Max is what i would expect"
prior to that video you linked he posted this one :

and even then he didn't mention 8tf, he talked about 11,5tf - 11,46tf/14,97tf - 15,16tf
That IS GCN fool. You really are ignorant.
we know fool still you got it wrong.
And yes, DF are butthurt :messenger_tears_of_joy: . They're not getting the scoop from Sony, mark my words they will get the scoop from MS.
this one is so ridiculous that i'm not gonna comment on it.
 

demigod

Member
LMFAO!! Did you even watch the video yourself? At no point he implys that Ps5 will use GCN CUs. He just analyzes the Gonzolo leak.

What a monumental fail. And then calls DF butthurt. Just take the L and move on.

Uhh yeah, he’s implying that the PS5 will use 36 CU for compatibility, there is no way you’re getting 72 CU.

DF is not "butthurt" you are.

2x 5700 is 19.5tf, so 5800 is defenitely not that, might be 56CU which is 13.6tf (i think).

he said :"the ps4 pro shipped with 36CU which maybe a good match for Sony BC that would give us 8.3tf"
then he continued by presenting these other possibility's: 9.2 - 10,1 - 11,1 - 12,0 - 12,9 - 13,8 - 14,7.
now the part you missed is that he said "10tf to 12tf Max is what i would expect"
prior to that video you linked he posted this one :

and even then he didn't mention 8tf, he talked about 11,5tf - 11,46tf/14,97tf - 15,16tf

we know fool still you got it wrong.

this one is so ridiculous that i'm not gonna comment on it.


I like how you asked for receipts and when shown, you’re trying to spin it, lol. He’s clearly talking about GCN. ALL those TFlops are GCN. You 2 should take the L like R600 and move on.
 
I like how you asked for receipts and when shown, you’re trying to spin it, lol. He’s clearly talking about GCN. ALL those TFlops are GCN. You 2 should take the L like R600 and move on.
i know its GCN, he presented multiple scenario's and clearly said that 10tf to 12tf is what he's expecting, you'r the one talking about DF is lowballing the PS5 to be 8tf because Sony snubbed them and went with Wired, hilarious.
 

MadAnon

Member
Uhh yeah, he’s implying that the PS5 will use 36 CU for compatibility, there is no way you’re getting 72 CU.

That has nothing to do with gcn. He actually presented different CU counts with according teraflops and didn't pick some lowball prediction.
 
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MadAnon

Member
All those TFlops are GCN, take the L like you said.
There is no difference in teraflop calculation between gcn and navi. They are calculated the same way. That's how you calculate TFs for AMD cards. He was listing different CU counts with the according TF number. And in his calculations he used the Gonzalo leaked frequency of 1.8ghz. He didn't imply that PS5 will use gcn CUs.
 
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TLZ

Banned
But PS4 5000 firestrike score really make sense, because it's almost right in the middle between 7850, and 7870. So to my surprise it looks like PS4 windows drivers were optimised well enough and it should be also the case with PS5 gonzalo score.

With leaked 500$ price on top of that I just cant see PS5 reaching 12TF barier anymore, but more like 9TF (Gonzalo score equivalent). That's also probably why resetera user who explained his PS5 tech demo impressions implied people should not base ther expectations on hardware specs because they will be disappointed.

I know hope dies last, but I dont want to lie myself anymore. The war is over, my 12TF team has no chance to win 🥺😭😭
I know, compared to current consoles RX5700 is still big improvement, because before Navi launch the most optimistic scenario was vega64 like performance and it looks like we will get it. With HW RT on top of that and 500$ price point we should be happy I guess 🤔😀.

12TF team good luck in your last struggles before the end, it was a pleasure fighting along your side for so many months😀. Thanks to our captain SonGoku the morale was high, but now even he is no longer with us 😭😔. We still have one general left, but I bet even Negotiatior himself started doubting 12TF dream at this point. So it's official, I'm abandoning the sinking ship before it's too late.

S7lGvf7.png
Just remember the RDNA/GCN and other differences. If it was GCN 9tf I would've been disappointed. RDNA is rivalling NVIDIA TFs, which previously GCN couldn't.
 

Racer!

Member
No, it seems they knew something about next gen consoles.

Do people think Richard and DF have no sources in industry? Lol, they can EASILY get a nod from big guys in industry, enough to confirm ballpark. They dont and would never post leaked documentation as a primpary source, but you are naive if you think they cant get this type of info.

DF "Are next gen consoles 10TF+"

Source "A-a"

And thats enough. They would breach NDA, but only just. From only that info DF or anyone technical can easily make a case for next gen hardware +/-10%

Thats what I said in my previous post. They must have some inside sources. If their claims turns out to be false, its not going to look good. They are putting their credibility on the line here.
 

Aceofspades

Banned
I was going off by what 2 others have side in this thread. But since you 2 are so inclined for the video, I had to look it up to confirm it since nobody bothered to link it before when SonGoku SonGoku asked for it. Your RECEIPTS RIGHT HERE. You can watch it and Richard does try to imply the PS5 will use the same compute units as the Pro for compatibility. And yes, DF are butthurt :messenger_tears_of_joy: . They're not getting the scoop from Sony, mark my words they will get the scoop from MS.



Richard has been trying to downplay Playstation since 2006. That's why MS chose DF for exclusive scoops for X1X. You can see his bias from a million light years away. He amplifies any advantages for Xbox while downplaying any for playstation. He is a known Xbox fanboy, look at his pieces prior to PS4 and X1 release. And even now, the moment he started to marginalize differences in power between Scarlett and PS5 is the moment I know that MS told him to hit the brake a little lol. add to that MS messaging that changed from creating the most powerful console to "Scarlett is the most powerful console we have ever created" like its possible to not do that 🤣

Some users here are defending DF and soft cushioning the idea of PS5 being more powerful than Scarlett by simply focusing on the idea of consoles are weak and this gen sucks, Nvidia is lit 🤣
 

Fake

Member
This doesn't make much sense to me (a comparison is necessary in technical discussions, you can't just vaguely say it sucks because it sucks, you need a relative point of reference), or perhaps there's a language barrier, otherwise you would get the gist of my posts.

Anyway, carry on.
Of course I don't need to make comparison. You rather to obssesion with that dude.

If Jaguar struggles to maintain a stable 30 them why a comparison is needed?

Of course, because for some feel better, but still is a bad perfomance and I don't even need to make a comparison for prove.

Or what? You need to put another CPU side by side with Jaguar for prove he can maintain some selected games at 30 fps?

Again... numbers.
 
Of course I don't need to make comparison. You rather to obssesion with that dude.

If Jaguar struggles to maintain a stable 30 them why a comparison is needed?

Of course, because for some feel better, but still is a bad perfomance and I don't even need to make a comparison for prove.

Or what? You need to put another CPU side by side with Jaguar for prove he can maintain some selected games at 30 fps?

Again... numbers.
I'm obsessed with what exactly? I'm not a PCMR elitist. I always see consoles as a whole, something more than the sum of their individual parts (unlike PCs). Maybe you're confusing me with someone else? Maybe with... DF?

So I'm asking you again: is there a language barrier or what? Are my posts not well-written enough for you to comprehend them?

Regarding framerates, I know very well that game devs can design rock solid 60 fps games if they want. PSVR for example gives you rock solid 60 fps on that shitty Jaguar CPU. Sony won't accept 30 fps for VR games. Do you think I'm dumb or what?

You can even make a taxing enough game to barely render 1080p 30 fps on an Intel 9900k/RTX 2080 Ti combo. Doesn't mean the hardware is problematic or "weak".

To sum it up: you're preaching to the choir. I've done my homework long time ago.

ps: The underlined part is contradictory. Make up your mind (either you want numbers or you don't). After all, you're in a numbers-related thread (in case you haven't noticed already... just sayin').
 

Mass Shift

Member
The only info DF has is when they're being spoonfed by Sony and MS. They're now just bitter about Sony ditching them for Wired so they lowballed the PS5 GCN TF.

That would be unusually petty of them just because they went to Wired with a couple of sit downs. The people at DF probably can appreciate what Sony is trying to accomplish with those Wired articles better than we can. Which is a good go to that keeps everyone interested and engaged in a year when they've been skipping conferences and being very lowkey.

Eh, it was all so easy last time. Everything got dumped on VGLeaks with fully drawn out diagrams of the architecture for both platforms. And as I recall, when Xbox gamers couldn't except it, they rejected it and went on the warpath against all sources they didn't agree with.

It's a miserable way to start a new generation. Just saying 🤷

Look whatever happens, happens. But put it out of your mind that DF is being adversarial over Wired interviews.
 
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joe_zazen

Member
That would be unusually petty of them just because they went to Wired with a couple of sit downs. The people at DF probably can appreciate what Sony is trying to accomplish with those Wired articles better than we can. Which is a good go to that keeps everyone interested and engaged in a year when they've been skipping conferences and being very lowkey.

Eh, it was all so easy last time. Everything got dumped on VGLeaks with fully drawn out diagrams of the architecture for both platforms. And as I recall, when Xbox gamers couldn't except it, they rejected it and went on the warpath against all sources they didn't agree with.

It's a miserable way to start a new generation. Just saying 🤷

Look whatever happens, happens. But put it out of your mind that DF is being adversarial over Wired interviews.

DF has a working relationship with MS that makes them money: MS feeds them news, they make videos out if it and get views + patreon. They do not have that with Sony. If you were df, whose PR requests would you be following?
 

Romulus

Member
I'm confused, is there an argument here that the jaguar was decent? I've never heard that before if so.
Even when the leaks started dropping in 2012 about the jaguar everyone was surprised THEN how weak of a CPU choice they went with. Its was trash then compared to low end desktop gaming cpus.
 
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joe_zazen

Member
I'm confused, is there an argument here that the jaguar was decent? I've never heard that before if so.
Even when the leaks started dropping in 2012 about the jaguar everyone was surprised THEN how weak of a CPU choice they went with. Its was trash then compared to low end desktop gaming cpus.

what else could they have used given the fact they had to use amd, sell at $399, and not lose money on each sale?
 
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Mass Shift

Member
They earn clicks and views on youtube so its fine for them.

Agreed, I'm sure it's mutual.

DF has a working relationship with MS that makes them money: MS feeds them news, they make videos out if it and get views + patreon. They do not have that with Sony. If you were df, whose PR requests would you be following?

Yeah but what you're suggesting is that they're purposefully lowballing Sony's hardware, and how would they be able to accomplish that? If PS5 has higher specs, they just have higher specs. What could DF possibly do to change that?

Why risk the egg on your face unless you have a solid lead ?

But most importantly, this goes back to performance. DF is trying to help console gamers to appreciate that efficiency is the new metric for the next generation. TFs are not going to be the best gauge of performance this time.
 

joe_zazen

Member
Agreed, I'm sure it's mutual.



Yeah but what you're suggesting is that they're purposefully lowballing Sony's hardware, and how would they be able to accomplish that? If PS5 has higher specs, they just have higher specs. What could DF possibly do to change that?

Why risk the egg on your face unless you have a solid lead ?

But most importantly, this goes back to performance. DF is trying to help console gamers to appreciate that efficiency is the new metric for the next generation. TFs are not going to be the best gauge of performance this time.

if they are ok with pushing ms pr, then the question is what does ms gain from this messaging. i am not in marketing or pr so i dont have an answer. All i know is that when df entered into a business relationship with ms/xbox, they stopped being impartial and are ok with impropriety. Same with polygon and that 100k microsoft ‘grant’.

But then again, almost every gaming website accepts marketing dollars from the companies they cover, so it isnt like df is unique in this respect.

Probably nothing. I'm not even arguing that though.

just saying weak compared to what? I mean if they put bulldozer cores in and the gpu TF had to be cut to 0.95 to keep,apu size viable, then is that any better than jag + 1.84 TF? or if they went intel and nvidia and had another $599 albatross?

Jag was the best option at the time, just like whatever zen variant they will use For 5. And i am sure there will be complaining about how weak the next consoles are six weeks after release.
 

Romulus

Member
if they are ok with pushing ms pr, then the question is what does ms gain from this messaging. i am not in marketing or pr so i dont have an answer. All i know is that when df entered into a business relationship with ms/xbox, they stopped being impartial and are ok with impropriety. Same with polygon and that 100k microsoft ‘grant’.

But then again, almost every gaming website accepts marketing dollars from the companies they cover, so it isnt like df is unique in this respect.



just saying weak compared to what? I mean if they put bulldozer cores in and the gpu TF had to be cut to 0.95 to keep,apu size viable, then is that any better than jag + 1.84 TF? or if they went intel and nvidia and had another $599 albatross?

Jag was the best option at the time, just like whatever zen variant they will use For 5. And i am sure there will be complaining about how weak the next consoles are six weeks after release.

Jag was not at the level of a mid tier gaming desktop cpu in 2013 though was it? That's what I'm comparing it to and that's about where Zen 2 sits now. Jaguar was t even an I3 performance was it?
Also, why does an upgraded cpu at Sony's cost $200 more than a jaguar? $599 you said.
 
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joe_zazen

Member
Jag was not at the level of a mid tier gaming desktop cpu in 2013 though was it? That's what I'm comparing it to and that's about where Zen 2 sits now. Jaguar was t even an I3 performance was it?
Also, why does an upgraded cpu at Sony's cost $200 more than a jaguar? $599 you said.

it is just a guess based on nvidia/intel being gougers and not offering price value. i just have faith that Cerny did the best he could.
 

Aceofspades

Banned
Quoting myself from earlier in this thread. You can see how Richard is actually a massive MS shill, and that was even before MS money.

Blast from the past:
DF: Orbis(PS4) vs Durango (X1) Specs analysis

Notice how Rich tried his hardest to mitigate the obvious power advantage of PS4.
So does the GPU difference translate into as large an advantage as it sounds? VGleaks' Orbis spec, again derived from platform holder documentation, suggests that four of these CUs are reserved for Compute functions, conceivably bringing the PlayStation's raw advantage down from 50 per cent to just over 16. However, while Compute is often used for elements like physics calculations, there's nothing to stop coders hiving off specific graphics features to this hardware - Just Cause 2, for example, used NVIDIA's own Compute solution, CUDA, for enhanced water effects, while a core element of Battlefield 3 - the deferred shading solution that power its beautiful lighting - is handled via DirectX 11 Compute shader code.

Apparently more ROPs in PS4 in overkill and not needed, 16 in Xone is sufficient for 1080p gaming Lol

Other information has also come to light offering up a further Orbis advantage: the Sony hardware has a surprisingly large 32 ROPs (Render Output units) up against 16 on Durango. ROPs translate pixel and texel values into the final image sent to the display: on a very rough level, the more ROPs you have, the higher the resolution you can address (hardware anti-aliasing capability is also tied into the ROPs). 16 ROPs is sufficient to maintain 1080p, 32 comes across as overkill, but it could be useful for addressing stereoscopic 1080p for instance, or even 4K.

Teraflops difference is moot .

There's an argument that suggests that comparing Durango and Orbis on these terms is not realistic; that the platform holders have far more control over the design of the silicon than the raw specs suggest; that they can be adapted with manufacturer-specific 'secret sauce' customisations. The raw teraflop measurements being mooted - 1.23TF for Durango and 1.84TF for Orbis - have been dismissed as meaningless, and to a certain extent that is true.

Xbox Secret customisations

But here we do see some intriguing enhancements that are Durango-specific. Its 'Data Move Engines' carry out hardware compression as well as decompression (and support for JPEG too - perhaps to handle Kinect camera streams), while there is also support for texture swizzling. However, the main takeaway here is that core elements of the Move Engine functionality are apparently designed to extract the best performance from a RAM set-up that is much more complex (and slower) than its Orbis equivalent.

Pffff, Games doesn't need ultra fast bandwidth on PS4, if they did there is Esram!!!

However, while the disadvantages are obvious, this is not to say that the situation is anything like a complete disaster for Durango development. Speaking to game makers, the impression we come away with is that not every feature in a game actually requires ultra-fast memory. Systems will be developed on the DDR3, and if memory throughput becomes an issue, those features will be ported over to the ESRAM where there's enough bandwidth to provide the raw performance if needed.

The magic of DirectX lol.

Also mitigating the difference to a certain extent is the fact that Durango operates under an enhanced version of DirectX 11 - dubbed internally DirectX 11.x. It's highly likely that crucial rendering functions will automatically be optimised by Microsoft for use with the ESRAM.

He even added both DDR3 and Eram bandwidth together for it to match GDDR5 on PS4

Man, It was fun browsing that thread, hopefully you can get as much enjoyment of it as I did....until we get a legit leak for PS5 .

Fucking clown Lol.
 

Mass Shift

Member
if they are ok with pushing ms pr, then the question is what does ms gain from this messaging. i am not in marketing or pr so i dont have an answer. All i know is that when df entered into a business relationship with ms/xbox, they stopped being impartial and are ok with impropriety.

None of this would change the PS5's specs for the better or the worse. So if DF's claims are false they would certainly lose credibility.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Klee said there were still two major revisions to come in terms of dev kits. It’s supposed to be based on the script of paper devs get from MS and Sony that outlines everything for what to expect of next-gen.

This isn’t the 900P days though where resolution differences were instantly noticeable so a slight difference means nothing third party wise.
It's very much possible too that developers were so confident in saying the PS5 is more powerful because even Scarlett GPU/CPU upclocks wouldn't make up the difference

Just speculation though
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Nexbox needs to be more powerful than the ps5 inorder to compete. im talking at least 15-20% more powerful.
That would be even lesser noticable than 900p and 1080p though :p

Especially since most games will be 4K
 
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Mass Shift

Member
That would be even lesser noticable than 900p and 1080p though :p

Especially since most games will be 4K

Nope. I'm am increasingly convinced that if RT is going to be a factor, then 1440p/120fps upscaled to 4K will be the performance budget for the next generation.
 
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Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Nope. I'm an increasingly convinced that if RT is going to be a factor, then 1440p/120fps upscaled to 4K will be the performance budget for the next generation.
That very well could happen. It all depends on how beneficial this hardware accelerated raytracing is and how many developers jump on the RT bandwagon.

It is easier for developers to use raytracing for their lighting solutions too

60 and 30 FPS will still be the targets though
 
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Romulus

Member
it is just a guess based on nvidia/intel being gougers and not offering price value. i just have faith that Cerny did the best he could.

Maybe he did, it's just I've heard nothing but good things about Zen2, whereas I never heard anything positive about jag, other than it was cheap. I frequent the psvr forums, and the devs we're often talking about how much the jag held them back for locked 60fps.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I dont know if DF are MS shills. they have their own biases or preferences like everyone in this thread. richard has always had a soft spot for ms. anyone who's seen their face/offs since the early days of ps360 knows this. its hard to refute. the alex guy is new and he seems to be a pc guy but whatever, i dont see how that has translated into any poor coverage from him. just a lot of jerking off over ray tracing which is great because no one else seems to be doing that. john seems to be the only one without a preference. i dont know, i just find it hard to believe that they are all ms fanboys.

what i do find somewhat funny and hypocritical is their fawning over shitty switch ports. i mean these ports are hitting 360p. fucking 360p. we cant even watch youtube videos at 360p nowadays. hell, i back out as soon as i see a pornhub video running at 360p. these guys used to make such a big deal about ps3 games running at sub 720p resolution. it was all ms back then and they pretended as if they needed glasses because of how blurry non 720p games looked on the ps3.

when the ps4 launched and 900p to 1080p became a norm b/w the two consoles, all of a sudden resolution became pointless. it was actually hilarious to see them look for framerate improvements on the x1 versions. i remember the far cry 4 face/off in particular because they focused on a 1-2 fps improvement as if it was a gamechanger. im like you do realize the ps4 is pushing 50% more pixels.

at the end of the day, i would just like them to be consistent. you simply cannot look at zelda and give it a passing grade as a tech site. you need to name and shame the studio. you need to tell your audience to skip the game. you have made your name bitching about 10% difference in pixels during the ps3 era and harp on and on about 1-2 fps difference this gen. you dont get to pick and choose when to unleash the outrage. that is why they get so many accusations of being ms shills, they simply arent consistent when giving games a pass.

as for downplaying tflops, its bizarre but i think they are being smart about it. they have left themselves a lot of room to wiggle out of the low tflops estimates, simply because they havent given us an estimate. they are hinting at sub 10 tflops, but again, i dont see any real claim here. no off the record sources. i dont know why they wouldnt come out and tell us the tflops numbers if they knew. i truly believe they are just as clueless as we are. no offense intended to DF or any of the sub 10 tflops folks here.
 

TLZ

Banned
I dont know if DF are MS shills. they have their own biases or preferences like everyone in this thread. richard has always had a soft spot for ms. anyone who's seen their face/offs since the early days of ps360 knows this. its hard to refute. the alex guy is new and he seems to be a pc guy but whatever, i dont see how that has translated into any poor coverage from him. just a lot of jerking off over ray tracing which is great because no one else seems to be doing that. john seems to be the only one without a preference. i dont know, i just find it hard to believe that they are all ms fanboys.

what i do find somewhat funny and hypocritical is their fawning over shitty switch ports. i mean these ports are hitting 360p. fucking 360p. we cant even watch youtube videos at 360p nowadays. hell, i back out as soon as i see a pornhub video running at 360p. these guys used to make such a big deal about ps3 games running at sub 720p resolution. it was all ms back then and they pretended as if they needed glasses because of how blurry non 720p games looked on the ps3.

when the ps4 launched and 900p to 1080p became a norm b/w the two consoles, all of a sudden resolution became pointless. it was actually hilarious to see them look for framerate improvements on the x1 versions. i remember the far cry 4 face/off in particular because they focused on a 1-2 fps improvement as if it was a gamechanger. im like you do realize the ps4 is pushing 50% more pixels.

at the end of the day, i would just like them to be consistent. you simply cannot look at zelda and give it a passing grade as a tech site. you need to name and shame the studio. you need to tell your audience to skip the game. you have made your name bitching about 10% difference in pixels during the ps3 era and harp on and on about 1-2 fps difference this gen. you dont get to pick and choose when to unleash the outrage. that is why they get so many accusations of being ms shills, they simply arent consistent when giving games a pass.

as for downplaying tflops, its bizarre but i think they are being smart about it. they have left themselves a lot of room to wiggle out of the low tflops estimates, simply because they havent given us an estimate. they are hinting at sub 10 tflops, but again, i dont see any real claim here. no off the record sources. i dont know why they wouldnt come out and tell us the tflops numbers if they knew. i truly believe they are just as clueless as we are. no offense intended to DF or any of the sub 10 tflops folks here.
D dark10x is a huge fanboy alright, of retro games, and I'm ok with that :messenger_relieved:
 
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