DeeDogg_
Banned
Obviously its gonna hold back the entire Generation if devs are stuck developing for a weak as POS console
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DeeDogg_
Banned
Why are you defending it so much? lmao
Did you pitch the Lockhart idea to MS or something?
bitbydeath
Gold Member
I tried to tell you but you just wouldn’t listen.So we're throwing EVERYTHING out now?
DF, Kleegamefan, Komachi, Brad Sams, Matt, Reiner, Reset, Redtech etc. Everyone who has been warning us for months to keep our TF expectations in check.
We're just going to wipe the slate clean and start all over again with big TFs based on this one article?
Ray-Tracing isn’t available until next year. It requires those new cards to work.
Insane Metal
Member
I'll keep my expectation low as I always have. Still betting on 10TF max. Maybe if they pull it a little bit we get to 11TF. More than that and I'll be very surprised.
Also, 24GB GDDR6.
Also, 24GB GDDR6.
vpance
Member
So we're throwing EVERYTHING out now?
DF, Kleegamefan, Komachi, Brad Sams, Matt, Reiner, Reset, Redtech etc. Everyone who has been warning us for months to keep our TF expectations in check.
We're just going to wipe the slate clean and start all over again with big TFs based on this one article?
Guy seems legit.
Big Navi can still mean 11TF GPU. It's LittleBigNavi
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
That's Wccftech, and they basically repost other people's shit, and he doesn't provide any source for his PS5 claim. With the leaked die sizes, Scarlett could be big, but that's nothing new.
ArabianPrynce
Member
Its from the same guy who leaked the accurate navi leaks before the official annoucement.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
iirc the Navi CU redesign leak came from Komachi. "Big Navi" leak came from Komachi. If you have a source that would be great. I don't read their site often since it's all just re-posts.
July 28, 2019
*edit* wccftech Navi 40CU article from Nov. 10, 2018. Predates Komachi's leak.
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Mass Shift
Member
Okay
bitbydeath
It's just that everyone is telling us to expect less, and now we're being told it's okay to dream again. I have to tell ya, I was beginning to get comfortable with 9TFs.
I'm very cautious about a late arrival to the party revving everybody up.
They use the same logic as some posters here. Raytracing hardware - RDNA2. They don't have any info on this. wccf doesn't have any sources. They just rehash info from other sites/insiders.
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Fake
Member
Alex from Digital Foundry must be talking shit because even he guess RDNA2.0.
Again, leaks are bs unless being proved. Just follow the conversation.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Okay
It's just that everyone is telling us to expect less, and now we're being told it's okay to dream again. I have to tell ya, I was beginning to get comfortable with 9TFs.
I'm very cautious about a late arrival to the party revving everybody up.
It was always obvious a large die was needed for Ray Tracing. Some just rather look the other way at facts and instead focus on rumours.
Why would Ray Tracing even be a focus if the card couldn’t even accomplish native 4K?
Why would 8K be mentioned? (I know people like to look the other way on that one too) But even just compare it to a 1440P card, that’s a hell of a stretch even for indies to reach 8K.
Why would Mark Cerny indicate that the hardware will be expensive but worth it for what you’re getting?
Why would Pro and X target 4K and next-gen continue the same trend?
Why is the PS5 devkit so big and have a massive fan exhaust system?
The answers were there all along, some just chose to believe in rumours rather than see what was right there in front of them.
Gamernyc78
Banned
Wow do you even look? He was proved to be a brainless idiot tht got nothing right last fen and ps4 og shirred all over Xbox og in power. I don't get why ppl even mention this dude.
LordOfChaos
Member
Big Navi passes RRA certification
www.digitaltrends.com
AMD May Have a Next-Gen, High-End Navi Graphics Card Coming Soon | Digital Trends
Recently, an unnamed AMD device received certification from South Korea's National Radio Research Agency. Based on the first three digits of the codename, it appears the next AMD device is a new and more powerful iteration of the AMD 'Navi' graphics cards, which are expected to launch next year.
www.digitaltrends.com
Mass Shift
Member
So they were ALL lowballing? I find that hard to believe.
Actually anything is possible. It's just so late in the game for another player with a completely different processor, specs and timeframe.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
I don’t know about all of them. Kleegamefan said it was in the double digits for example.
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air
More than a few, though the pessimists were also very forceful, so they more than they actually were. But what I find amusing are the people who were pessimistic with their sub-10 GCN TFs, and still haven't adjusted their attitude post-RDNA. lol, fucking hell. I don't know when the hell some...
www.resetera.com
Mass Shift
Member
Big Navi passes RRA certification
AMD May Have a Next-Gen, High-End Navi Graphics Card Coming Soon | Digital Trends
Recently, an unnamed AMD device received certification from South Korea's National Radio Research Agency. Based on the first three digits of the codename, it appears the next AMD device is a new and more powerful iteration of the AMD 'Navi' graphics cards, which are expected to launch next year.
Yeah, but how is Big Navi going to catchup with the timeframe for the consoles' release next year? That's a whole new piece of silicon that has to through the same process Gonzalo did.
I'm going to need a little more than the usual deduction we engage in around here to believe that we just jumped from Navi Lite to Navi Big, and that some of the best watchdogs and eagles missed it because they were too busy lowballing.
Mass Shift
Member
I don’t know about all of them. Kleegamefan said it was in the double digits for example.
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air
More than a few, though the pessimists were also very forceful, so they more than they actually were. But what I find amusing are the people who were pessimistic with their sub-10 GCN TFs, and still haven't adjusted their attitude post-RDNA. lol, fucking hell. I don't know when the hell some...
Well by his posts, we were being told we weren't going to be impressed with the TFs. Just that they would be double digits.
We don't need Big Navi for anything except RT. Double digits can be accomplished with Gonzalo @ 2000GHz and at least 40cus .
bitbydeath
Gold Member
We still need the power to accomplish 4K Ray-Tracing. Honestly from a Sony perspective I think they’re just going big to advance and stay relevant in the VR game.
MS didn’t see that angle so low-balled with Lockhart thinking that was the specs they’d go for and also pushed Anaconda to be (as Phil put it) ‘the benchmark of console gaming.’
Gamernyc78
Banned
MarkMe2525
Member
What if MS just said "F*ck it" and released a $799 balls to the wall box and that is our anaconda... Lockhart $449
Mass Shift
Member
Well Sony, MS and AMD are the only ones who know what they've done. They can't really lowball themselves. They either accomplish what they wanted to build or they didn't.
I agree that Scarlett needs to have VR support right out of the gate. When they announced the One X they lit a fire by claiming it would be capable of high quality VR support without any compromises on performance. They literally made VR support a selling point and then abandoned it.
I'm not sure that MS realized that the One X needed more than just the promise of "quality pixels" to move gamers to consider it. That being said, I haven't tried anything in the VR space that would compel me to recommend it to anyone. But there are some games that I wish I could play in VR mode.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
They can only do so much within the confines of a console sized box. Unless you mean for them to release a tower instead?
Mass Shift
Member
Or maybe, just maybe Lockhart really is dead and MS went with two Anacondas instead of one?
KlickKlack
Banned
in front of me are 5 speculative questions to 5 rumors....
which drugs must i use to see the facts? or beter: "your facts"...
bhunachicken
Member
The only thing that I can conclude from all the recent spec reveals (plus speculation on this thread) is that the new consoles are going to be expensive this time around. This correlates with Sony's statement that the price of the PS5 will be "appealing to gamers". High spec machines, but I bet they're between £449 and £500. It would certainly make them the priciest machines compared to others:
PlayStation: $472
Sega Saturn: $630
Nintendo 64: $305
Dreamcast: $287
PlayStation 2: $418
GameCube: $270
Xbox: $406
(Adjusted for inflation. Also, that Saturn price. WTF?!)
PlayStation: $472
Sega Saturn: $630
Nintendo 64: $305
Dreamcast: $287
PlayStation 2: $418
GameCube: $270
Xbox: $406
(Adjusted for inflation. Also, that Saturn price. WTF?!)
pawel86ck
Banned
Bitbydeath post is based on official statements and well known PS5 developer design, so IMO his points can be considered facts. Of course it doesnt mean his conclusions based on these facts must be correct.
With current knowledge about Navi it's hard to imagine double digits in next gen consoles, but like I have said Sony and MS probably build consoles will 2020/2021 technologies in mind, so still it's possible they will surprise us. Many people here have said Navi will be a disaster because Vega was so bad, and leaks suggested problems with Navi. It turned out these leaks were wrong and now we know Navi is in fact a big improvemnt when it comes to perfromance in games. And should I even talk about RT? People who even mentioned RT in a consoles were considered insane.
So currently I expect somewhere around 8-9TF, because that's the most realistic expectation given our current knowledge, but at the same time I know Sony or MS can still surprise us with double digits consoles.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Speculation is fine, but there's always that singular, pesky fact that PS5 is Gonzalo and we have it's Fire Strike overall score and Userbench score.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Why u get banned from this topic?
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Keep in mind even if that rumour were true that isn’t it’s final form. The hardware won’t be complete until next year so all of those scores are worthless.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
It's not a rumor. It's a confirmed data mine from 2 real databases. PS4 was tested in the same manner and it's score presented along with the PS5. PS5 is Gonzalo, I believed it from the beginning. You cannot selectively take the clock speeds from Gonzalo/Oberon and ignore the scores.
That's why I say it's pesky for the rumor mongers, because otherwise all that's all we'd have aside from 7nm Zen2 + Navi.
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bitbydeath
Gold Member
It’s not fact as there is nothing substantial linking it to the PS5 itself aside from mere guesses even though it’s been admitted it could be anything and again base scoring incomplete hardware is a fools errand.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
This is a real device being tested in the same way PS4 was tested. It has PS4 and PS4 Pro's exact GPU clock speeds and base/boost CPU speeds to match PS4 and scale to PS5. It's been confirmed to be the PS5 by Digital Foundry. It moved from ES to QS over the span of Jan, 2019 to April, 2019. This chip is finished with the engineering phase and moved on to qualification.
Your theoretical device doesn't exist in any database. It has no numbers, and no scores.
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Negotiator
Member
Unless they take a huge loss ($300), that's not gonna happen.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
That doesn’t mean it’s the PS5 though, and again the GPU won’t be final until next year so even if by some miracle it was right then it was obviously using hardware that won’t be in the final kit as the GPU definitely wasn’t anywhere near ready back then.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Apparently according to that rumour the very first devkit would have been all that was needed. (Which happens, never) Also Sony and MS would have lied about RT because well it didn’t exist back then.
The more you dig into it the less credible it becomes.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
It's been shown in great detail that it's a real device, with PS4/Pro's clock speeds, confirmed to be PS5 by DF, with performance score presented along with PS4 score in the same test. Apisak demonstrated Sony used this method before with actual serial numbers to match.
Can you provide anything comparable to this for your theoretical device?
There was a chip running alongside the Gonzalo Qualification Sample that was 1 step back(ES2). This is possibly Oberon and it had scores in the same batch as Gonzalo...20K+. This is probably your stage 2 dev kit, or final PS5 chip. Apisak suggests that was the difference.
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bitbydeath
Gold Member
It’s numbers on a page, it could be a pachinko device. DF have not confirmed anything as that would require them speaking directly with Sony.
Compareable, on the Sony front, I guess PSNow hardware as it would require both a stronger device and be operational with PS4 at the same time.
Fake
Member
Still too early. I dunno what was the quantity of devkits around, but we're getting close to the final build. Maybe next year we can get more info.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
DF believe Prospero is the third iteration. FYI
We built a 'next-gen' Zen 2/Navi-based PC - how much faster is it than current-gen consoles?
Development kits are out, game makers are briefed. Sony's PlayStation 5 and Xbox Project Scarlett projects are under wa…
www.eurogamer.net
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
I asked for hard numbers from a real device.
DF said they are "99% certain that it's the silicon that will be in PS5". Any dev, any rumor monger could have popped up and said "no it's not!". Silence speaks volumes. The deleted Flute entry, and punishing of the Codemasters dev does as well.
The same people that think the PS5 devkit might be representative of the actual PS5 Case design are the ones saying it's too early. Make up your minds. Codemasters' dev confirmed they had it months ago. This timeline matches the QS status of Gonzalo and the OPN status of Flute. Neo kits came staggered just like that and were labeled "Final Spec".
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Fake
Member
Codemaster having or not don't make any difference about the quantity of devkits already out. Again, we're working with leaks, still not a confirmed or yet concrete info. We can just speculate at this point.
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CrustyBritches
Gold Member
It's makes all the difference because they had a non-generic kit at latest in August. Codemasters is not a big studio, despite making great games. He said "we have some at the office" casually. Codemasters had a bunch of those kits, that some here believe represents powerful hardware and possibly the PS5 case design, months ago. With Neo, *EDIT* "Test Kit Proto 1" skipped SCEE(Codemasters territory), and "Dev Kit Proto 2" was labeled "Final Spec". The timespan from "Dev Kit Proto 2" to "Test Kit Proto 2" was under 3 months.
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bitbydeath
Gold Member
Codemasters were involved with confirming the devkit, nothing more. And devs can’t say much else due to the NDA’s they sign.
And what of Prospero? Clearly if they’re still updating then it proves the original numbers are worthless.
Fake
Member
I guess he just confirmed the propotype design and was even after that documents get leaked by, of course, a brazilian as always.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
?
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CrustyBritches
Gold Member
You wanted to know how many non-generic kits are out there and that's your answer. Even a small dev like Codemasters had multiples of them months ago, lining up with the QS status of Gonzalo and OPN of Flute. The timeline for Neo kits demonstrates how Sony operates, and even Dev Kit Proto 2 was "Final Spec". The following kits were distributed within 3 months.
Everything I have stated here is hard facts and I've yet to be given a single hard fact or number from the "60CU+" crowd, who loves selective fact choosing: "Gonzalo is not PS5, but we will use it's clockspeeds", "PS5 wouldn't have dev kits out by now, but the kit design is indicative of a powerful system and by that logic even the PS5 retail case design".
Show me the beef!
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Fake
Member
Dev Preview of New DirectX 12 Features - DirectX Developer Blog
DirectX Raytracing tier 1.1, Mesh Shader, and Sampler Feedback are now available in Windows 10 Insider Preview Builds (20H1).
devblogs.microsoft.com
Good read.
Exactly. Well, it's not a full proper answer, but will be and the end of 2020. I just want to be more careful about the info nothing more.
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