M
Macapala
Unconfirmed Member
I don't give two shits about Pokemon, but if Game Freak/Nintendo want to charge a premium price then they have to offer a premium product. It's really that simple.
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#GameFreakLied Sword and Shield Models are 3DS Ports
- Thread starter Ryu Kaiba
- Start date
Werewolf Jones
Gold Member
Defend this without using the word "fun"
The Mad Draklor
Member
When an amateur animator can roughly recreate the same tail whip animation in only 2 minutes, the claims of laziness are absolutely valid especially when the amount of Pokemon have already been drastically reduced. That's one amateur animator and then we have Game Freak that has over 100 experienced developers.
There were other ways that Game Freak could've done that would've made the Pokemon look livelier that wouldn't necessarily add a whole lot of time to development. Instead of having just one physical and one special animation per Pokemon, give each one 3. Instead of designating a breath attack spawning in front of a Pokemon model, have it programmed so that it specifically appears from the Pokemon character's mouth.
Those aren't unrealistic expectations since, for instance, there are multiple breath attacks. They can be all programmed the same way with the only difference being the particle effects. Same can be applied to pulse/sphere attacks, punch attacks, and kick attacks.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Pokemon's total revenue is 95 Billion dollars. 95. Yet their mainline game is still being made by grade C- devs and as long as they can make money off low effort they have no reason to improve.
Xeaker
Member
Jack Videogames
Gold Member
I'm 8h in with 2 gym badges and I'm not stalling at all - just leisurely exploring, talkimg to everyone and making sure I do not skip any trainers. Also I'm mostly ignoring the Wild Area.
I understand HLTB only has data from speed demons that already completed the game and will change over the next few days.
Kenpachii
Member
The guy says he needs 40 minutes to create a good solid version of a animation, there are like 140 animators in that company and each pokemon has 70 total moves it can do on average.
Let's say quality animation takes a hour, that's 8 on a day, that's 40 on a week, that's about 2000 hours ala animations a year for 1 employee. However they got vacations etc so lets reduce it to 1500 to just get a better picture about things.
That's 1500 animations which equals towards lets round it down on top of it 21 pokemons animated a year by one person.
They got what? 140 animators, which would equal towards 2.940 pokemons being able to be animated in a year.
In other words there is no excuse really for animations and there never was they could expand that team even drastically on top of it.
The reason why people always gave them the benefit of the doubt was because "hardware limitations". With games like zelda breath of the wild on the switch and full blown AAA titles like witcher 3, there honestly isn't much excuse anymore even while for anybody rational thinking it was never a excuse to start with.
I hope this wakes them up and start to actually push the IP forwards with a overhaul of the entire game series through its core.
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The Mad Draklor
Member
I think Game Freak is also working on a new IP, so not hands were on deck. However, even though not all 140 animators worked on Sword and Shield, they only had to deal with a sixth of the theoretical 2,940 Pokemon that the whole studio could theoretically fully animate.
That would leave them with a whole lot of extra time to work on thing such as getting rid of pop-in and improving textures (they don't even need to be 'high quality', they just need to not look like a pixelated mess). If any semblance of effort was put in, then we would see less of this:
or this:
Guiberu
Member
My daughter and I played this a whole lot over the weekend.
Its incredibly fun, and addicting.
Cycling together through the wild lands completing Dynamax wells and levelling up our favourite Pokémon.
I'm currently sat at 16hrs playtime and have 3/8 gym badges and 70ish Pokémon.
The story is engaging, and all the characters are fun and unique.
There's also a large battle tower that only opens up once you've completed the game.
It feels very much worth the price, and I certainly don't feel as though I've been short changed in any way.
Its incredibly fun, and addicting.
Cycling together through the wild lands completing Dynamax wells and levelling up our favourite Pokémon.
I'm currently sat at 16hrs playtime and have 3/8 gym badges and 70ish Pokémon.
The story is engaging, and all the characters are fun and unique.
There's also a large battle tower that only opens up once you've completed the game.
It feels very much worth the price, and I certainly don't feel as though I've been short changed in any way.
Kenpachii
Member
KingdomHeartsFan
Member
I remember when Let's Go got revealed and everyone was like this is just a spin-off, wait until the next mainline game comes out and its gonna blow everyone away! Lol then this turd comes out.
MagnesG
Banned
Let's Go is very much as a spin off, even down to the catching mechanics.
Doom85
Member
Due to having other plans this weekend, I've only put in 2.5 hours, am right before the first Gym. I agree, so far the game is great and the actual gameplay and things I care about seem on point. Heck, I like how there are higher-level Pokemon just walking around so you have to be careful about which ones you encounter. And I love the customization options for my trainer.
I feel I agree with Blue Adidas shirt guy in this video at 1:35-210:
(for those who don't feel like watching it)
Blue Adidas: So you can still catch Pokemon, battle Pokemon, do Pokemon things?
Red shirt: They cut the National Dex! You can only catch 400 Pokemon!
Blue Adidas: I'm gonna be honest: I was going to catch like 20 of them bitches and call it a day. I mean, I already know who's on my team.
Red shirt: NO!!! You need to be angry! It's a goddamn travesty!
Blue Adidas: I get it, you're upset and that's completely fine. You know, but I'm still getting Pokemon because I like Pokemon. I'm just going to play Pokemon.
Red shirt: So you're cool with paying for mediocrity?
Blue Adidas: I'm paying to catch Pokemon and battle Pokemon which you just said I could do.
TRUTH.
OutrageousFacts
Banned
What irks me most: Digital Foundry worded itself SO forgivingly. They kept judging the game's graphics as if it existed in a vacuum. Sorry, but why don't you compare to other modern AAAAA-franchises?
John Day
Member
Or other Switch games at the least.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Yep. Sword and Shield is just more pokemon. Great game, lots of content, lots of red shirts trying to ruin that for people.
Also thanks, I think I found a new youtuber to follow. That shit was funny.
The Mad Draklor
Member
How did they even let something like that happen, lol.
Ryu Kaiba
Member
I'm thinking that perhaps this game is the warm up.. It's there first mainline game on the switch aka the transitional one. Just like Gen 6 had elements of being a DS game, but we eventually got Sun and moon which visually was doing all it could with the 3DS, and now with Sword and Shield were seeing elements of the 3DS limitations, while game freak is expanding their engine to fully take advantage of the Switch.
Things like the Wild Area could be the result of Game Freak testing new open world tools for their engine. And maybe when the next Pokemon Generation rolls around they will implement towns and stuff into them!
Wishful thinking??
Things like the Wild Area could be the result of Game Freak testing new open world tools for their engine. And maybe when the next Pokemon Generation rolls around they will implement towns and stuff into them!
Wishful thinking??
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rrice64
Neo Member
no one wants to accept this fact. it's a game almost primarily aimed at children. the only adults it's aimed at are already predisposed to like this kind of thing, and should just take it for what it is and go with it. it's a kid's game. it won't have all the bells and whistles that more legitimate, hardcore games have. and that's ok. just set your expectations correctly and you'll be satisfied. game freak is just not making the game you want them to make, so maybe pokemon just isn't for you anymore. and i mean the royal you, not you personally.
Ryu Kaiba
Member
I think Game Freak should cater some towards there aging audience. That's the best fruit of their labor! The audience that grew up loving your product and are now adults with disposable income!
I think a more graphically impressive game will come, its just coming to slowly for my liking.
rrice64
Neo Member
It's possible, but as a counter, my 10-year-old loves pokemon. She obviously wasn't around at the genesis, so isn't part of an aging audience. Her friends still play the card game, pokemon go on their parent's phones, etc. *some* of their fans are aging. not all. and the younger crowd is definitely easier to please. i honestly see why they focus on them instead of the older fans to be frank. if everyone could come to grips with that reality, we'd all be a lot happier. then, if the day does come when pokemon gets ultra serious and high fidelity, then the older fans can and will rejoice. but it's a far safer assumption to say game freak is gonna game freak, and that means targeting children primarily.
Ten_Fold
Member
I dont want 1000 pokemon in a game, what I want is the game too look a bit better. No way it shouldn't look better. GF gets by with using so little resources to make a new pokemon game, I'm sure we will see mods with better models sometime soon. If the games sell less than expected then maybe they might open up for feed back.
Ryu Kaiba
Member
That's all I'm saying, I don't care about the dex cut, when I play I want to see new Pokemon! I just want better visuals.
Ryu Kaiba
Member
Not "some" MOST of there fans are adults now. With every passing generation new fans entering adulthood increase the majority adult fanbase
People should not "just accept it" when they know things can be better. When they know they're being dealt short.
That goes for all aspects of life, that's a ridiculous thing to say.
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Lanrutcon
Member
All those kids buying the game though? They are part of the problem!
All those parents buying Pokemon for their kids for Xmas? Don't they know they are rewarding laziness and are "anti-meritocratic"?
I have always thought of these games as an "entry level" RPG for people who maybe don't play many games and I reckon they are a pretty good "gateway" into gaming.
For adults I would think it's always better to see them as a bit of a fun, laid back, and more relaxing experience.
Even if most of the people who will buy and play the game are adults, I don't think this changes what the game actually is intended to be.
I just can't wrap my head around people actually being outraged to this extent over a game that nobody is being forced to buy. A game that, while popular with adults, is obviously designed to be more accessible to younger and/or inexperienced gamers. It's a sad state of affairs when people are this upset over a Pokemon game.
Assuming Game Freak has deadlines and this NEEDED to be released now so that people can pick it up for xmas, I think they probably managed to do a decent enough job. Most of the reviews I've seen have outright stated that the game is very enjoyable but a bit rough round the edges in terms of graphics and performance.
At the end of the day, the proof will be in the sales figures.
If it's a total flop then we can say that the fan outrage was somewhat justified and we can hope that Game Freak does better in the future.
Otherwise maybe it's time for some people to accept that they are way too invested in these games and that they need to move on.
Man, I'd always roll my eyes when I see games journalists, twitter check-marks and all the usual types from that other forum banging on about toxic gamers. All of this stuff over the last while has left me wondering if they actually have a point.
it's hard to imagine that people are THIS mad over a Pokemon game. Imagine actually logging into Metacritic etc to review bomb a Pokemon game?
Imagine thinking you suddenly know more than the developers with this back seat "well it only takes X minutes for some random guy to animate a things so..." bullshit. As if developing a game is that simple.
Maybe the "grown ups" will get their grown up Pokemon game next time.
Whaaaaaaaaaat!?
So the game is actually an enjoyable experience?
You didn't snap your controller and then go and cry in the corner because the graphics are bad?
You aren't weeping openly because most reviewers said the game is basically good?
Sounds like you are "part of the problem" mate!
They reused models and animations! How could they!?
(Awesome that you are enjoying the game. A lot of people seem to be enjoying it.)
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
Totally normal and acceptable for a dev to reuse stuff from past titles, if it fits and is of acceptable quality. I don’t see an issue there at all.
but I do see an issue with them saying that can’t do X/Y/Z due to have a huge work load, and then having it turn out to be this.
I have to say, for the money they get, I would expect a AAA product in all areas. Pokemon isn’t my jam really, I dabbled with Go because it was fun to do with the wife on holiday, but it always surprises me how low bar these entries always seem to be.
but I do see an issue with them saying that can’t do X/Y/Z due to have a huge work load, and then having it turn out to be this.
I have to say, for the money they get, I would expect a AAA product in all areas. Pokemon isn’t my jam really, I dabbled with Go because it was fun to do with the wife on holiday, but it always surprises me how low bar these entries always seem to be.
Ryu Kaiba
Member
I agree that some can go overboard with it, but that shouldn't drown out the fact that there are reasonable people who love Pokemon and have some legitimate concerns about the game. A lot of why you only see these games as entry level rpg's for kids is because that's all Game Freak has the vision for. That's disappointing to fans who have grander ambitions for the franchise. That being said there's still joy to be had in these games as they are, and no one is wrong for just wanting to play them.All those kids buying the game though? They are part of the problem!
All those parents buying Pokemon for their kids for Xmas? Don't they know they are rewarding laziness and are "anti-meritocratic"?
I have always thought of these games as an "entry level" RPG for people who maybe don't play many games and I reckon they are a pretty good "gateway" into gaming.
For adults I would think it's always better to see them as a bit of a fun, laid back, and more relaxing experience.
Even if most of the people who will buy and play the game are adults, I don't think this changes what the game actually is intended to be.
I just can't wrap my head around people actually being outraged to this extent over a game that nobody is being forced to buy. A game that, while popular with adults, is obviously designed to be more accessible to younger and/or inexperienced gamers. It's a sad state of affairs when people are this upset over a Pokemon game.
Assuming Game Freak has deadlines and this NEEDED to be released now so that people can pick it up for xmas, I think they probably managed to do a decent enough job. Most of the reviews I've seen have outright stated that the game is very enjoyable but a bit rough round the edges in terms of graphics and performance.
At the end of the day, the proof will be in the sales figures.
If it's a total flop then we can say that the fan outrage was somewhat justified and we can hope that Game Freak does better in the future.
Otherwise maybe it's time for some people to accept that they are way too invested in these games and that they need to move on.
Man, I'd always roll my eyes when I see games journalists, twitter check-marks and all the usual types from that other forum banging on about toxic gamers. All of this stuff over the last while has left me wondering if they actually have a point.
it's hard to imagine that people are THIS mad over a Pokemon game. Imagine actually logging into Metacritic etc to review bomb a Pokemon game?
Imagine thinking you suddenly know more than the developers with this back seat "well it only takes X minutes for some random guy to animate a things so..." bullshit. As if developing a game is that simple.
Maybe the "grown ups" will get their grown up Pokemon game next time.
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My view is that basically the industry, the hobby, or whatever we want to call it, absolutely needs to have games that are there for people who are younger or who do not have a lot of experience in gaming. Here is something they can pick up and get into and have a good time and maybe that gets them "in the door".
Here I am not really seeing how this is any different from other Pokemon games in that regard. Probably this will be the first video game, or at least one of the first, for hundreds of thousands of people over the holiday period. Games like that need to exist.
I understand that some fans have grander ambitions but I would question whether Pokemon is actually the franchise to help those players get that kind of experience. People just seem SO mad and the game just seems like a good Pokemon game.
I think if Game Freak did want to make something with more ambition, more focus on graphics, more appeal to an adult audience then probably that should be done with a new IP and not with Pokemon.
OutrageousFacts
Banned
What I don't understand: If Gamefreak is so incompetent at 3d graphics ... why not just stay 2d?
It's not what I want, but compared to Sword Shield it'd be so much better:
- 2d HD graphics
- using the real estate of the Switch' big screen
- beautiful hand-drawn art
- fantastic 2d-animation, like an interactive anime
- ALL Pokemon
- all meaningful features
- a myriad of competitive modes
- a vast 2d world
- and for the sequels to this one: full focus on content creation
Look at something like Disgaea 5. It's 2d, but it's beautiful. Why not embrace the fact that you don't like 3d, Gamefreak?
It's not what I want, but compared to Sword Shield it'd be so much better:
- 2d HD graphics
- using the real estate of the Switch' big screen
- beautiful hand-drawn art
- fantastic 2d-animation, like an interactive anime
- ALL Pokemon
- all meaningful features
- a myriad of competitive modes
- a vast 2d world
- and for the sequels to this one: full focus on content creation
Look at something like Disgaea 5. It's 2d, but it's beautiful. Why not embrace the fact that you don't like 3d, Gamefreak?
Ryu Kaiba
Member
But I don't want a new IP, I do want it to be Pokemon! I agree with you that it is a great introductory game for young people, and I don't want to take that away from them. So my solution would be to have another studio make a more adult oriented game, or if that's unlikely perhaps at least a different difficulty setting for people experienced with these games.
Torrent of Pork
Banned
Saber
Gold Member
I have to say though, the "mouse cursor" at the ending credits its pathetic. Resumes their laziness pretty much
You can't expect wise solution of developers that thinks the best solution its to remove stuff. And this does not limit to monsters but to moves as well.
You can't expect wise solution of developers that thinks the best solution its to remove stuff. And this does not limit to monsters but to moves as well.
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Doom85
Member
Funny how apparently those who enjoy the game are "children" according to some folks here, yet you're the one instantly resorting to petty name-calling like we're in a elementary playground.
Lanrutcon
Member
Again, and I've said this before, you're welcome to enjoy the game. Have a blast. Post about it. Paint it on your arse and dance in front of the camera. Have fun. I have no issue with your experience or posts indicating such.
But what you actually did was make slight of the legitimate gripes people have with the game, and then when you're called out on your shit suddenly you whine. You attempt to belittle the people who actually have standards and aren't just in it to...what was it you said? "catch 20 of the bitches and call it a day"?
Yeah, way to hold the high ground there, champ. I can't imagine why you don't see eye to eye with the fans.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
The Mad Draklor
Member
What's the most telling is when defenders like to misconstrue the criticism of Sword and Shield not having the National Dex.
There have been plenty of videos and regular fans stating that they weren't keen on Game Freak saying that there would not be a National Dex because they were working improving the models and animations, only for the final product to show that they did not improve those aspects. And this is to go along with other technical flaws such as pop-in and battle backgrounds not matching the location where the battle begins. Defenders, on the other hand, just see the outrage and go "Why are you so upset about the National Dex not being in Sword and Shield?" without actually taking the time to understand why fans are upset.
And apparently, to these defenders, having standards is entitlement...
Doom85
Member
The post you quoted before literally included the words: "I get it, you're upset and that's completely fine." Not sure how you missed that.
Also, it's not making slight of people have issues, it's making slight of those who are getting mad that others DARED to feel differently. The red shirt guy says, "no, you need to be angry!" Uh no, nobody has to feel like another person does.
The video is obviously showing the extremes of people on both sides. The guy freaking out is too much, the guy calmly saying the games have gone downhill is fine. The guy yelling back is too much, the guy calmly saying the game has what he cares about personally is fine. I thought the video was pretty obvious in this. And the beating at the end is extreme but it's meant to be over-the-top, I'm going to take a crazy assumption and say the Youtuber isn't actually saying he supports physical violence over video game opinions.
And while I've never only caught 20 myself any gen, I've never had any interest in getting them all, even back in Gen 1 when it wasn't such a ridiculously monumental task. I think the highest my Pokedex has ever got in any gen was in the 80's. That has nothing to do with standards, that's me playing the game my own way, some Pokemon just don't interest me and I'll catch the ones in the game that I like. If Dark Souls 4 got announced but they had no magic users why would a person who never used a magic build in the previous games get upset? They wouldn't because it doesn't affect them at all and so they're going to buy Dark Souls 4 and aren't "settling for mediocrity" or some shit.
Also way to basically not call me a fan since I'm not one of them apparently because this just in: the fanbase is a collective mind that doesn't have varying different opinions. I except that kind of behavior from the Star Wars fandom (HOW DARE YOU LIKE A MOVIE I DIDN'T LIKE!!!) but not here!
I never insulted you. You insulted me (unless "dense motherfucker" is a compliment from wherever you're from). This is an objective fact that you can't wiggle out of......well unless you delete or edit your previous post but that would be downright lame of you.
Pagusas
Elden Member
I really wish the game could be taken out of Gamefreaks hands, they are the biggest under achievers in the world. They are like that kid who gets all D’s in school but because he’s got rich parents it doesn’t matter. No drive for greatness from them, no passion displayed in the work, it’s very very sad that Pokémon’s weakest link is it’s dev team.
Surely if
Doom85
likes the game then they ARE the fans?On one had you are trying to say that it's "the fans" who have all these legitimate and totally reasonable reactions to the game.
On the other hand the millions of people who will buy the games are not fans, just people with no standards.
So the real Pokemon fans are the ones NOT buying the game? Brilliant.
The Mad Draklor
Member
The real fans are the ones who are actually suggesting realistic solutions because they want to see the series improve rather than stagnate.
And well, they can also do this:
And well, they can also do this:
Nah. There's a difference between having standards and screeching over and over on the internet that developers are "lazy" or crying because there isn't 1000 Pokemon in the game or fucking pissing your pants over "graphics" like you're in high school.
How is it not entitlement to:
1. Demand that the game be made the way YOU want it to be made.
2. Belittle anyone who actually does want the game insisting that they are "part of the problem".
3. When reviewers give the game a good score berate the reviewers for being shills because they had a good time with the game.
4. Review bomb the game on Metacritic based on some misguided notion that GameFreak will "get the message". YOUR message, of course.
5. "Backseat" game development where clueless people speculate about how they could develop the game better. So that THEIR vision is the one that gets made.
It IS entitlement.
Right now you are that kid who is rolling around on the floor at WalMart because your mother won't get you that toy you want.
All the normal people are looking at Game Freak with a sort of sympathetic look thinking "fucking glad I don't have to deal with that".
Meanwhile millions of people are buying the game and enjoying it.
Game Freak: Here is our new game. It's 60 bucks.
Customer A: Here is my 60 bucks. Oh hey, this is pretty awesome and fun to play.
Internet Screecher: YOU PEOPLE HAVE NO STANDARDS! They cut pokemon and the graphics is bad! GameFreak is lazy! Let's review bomb the game!
Yeah, not entitled at all.
Well, nobody should blindly buy a product to be honest but I would say that the brand probably has enough goodwill for people to understand they will get a decent and enjoyable game worth a good few hours of entertainment.
I don't think you can quantify the "real" fans though.
Especially not when it seems a bit like if you happen to like the game then somehow you are not a "real fan" of the series.
This is a bit contradictory.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Just the first sentence and already you made a strawman fallacy.
When it's shown that (1) the Pokemon models are merely imported 3DS models, (2) attack animations don't make sense, e.g. the Pokemon hopping twice during double kick and double hit or a geyser spawning a foot away from the Pokemon model during hydro pump, (3) some animations are easy to the point that an amateur animator can reproduce them in 2 minutes, (4) battle backgrounds occasionally not being consistent with the location of where the battle has started, (5) the game has poor drawing distance and bad instances of pop-ins, and (6) a regular fan is able to roughly import a Pokemon in Sword & Shield even though that Pokemon is not in the games, that's way too many points to ignore the fact that the developers could actually be lazy.
So no, it is not entitlement. This is more of you hand-waving criticisms away as blind rage. I would argue that the entitlement falls under the people who refuses to acknowledge the technical issues and flaws.
This doesn't refute anything that I pointed out. It is in a fan's interest that the game they like to play improves over time. As a result, we see have seen people making reasonable suggestions as to how Sword and Shield could've been.