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[Imtjnotu]

Double digit Tflops confirmed by insider on the other place......

Retardera?

 

[VFXVeteran]

Tqaulity,

Dont forget memory bandwidth and the type of memory. GDDR6 is cool, but it would be nice if the consoles had 1 TB/sec of bandwidth with HBM3...…….. one can only dream

Speaking on the memory.. what difference does it make if it's 16 or 32G.

I know that they will use unified virtual memory so whatever their storage is should be extremely fast and transparent to the developer.

One other thing -- Every game isn't going to eat up all available RAM. 1) It's too close to getting a segfault and 2) consuming up nearly all RAM lowers performance significantly. Definitely expect padding.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Hmm if true...1tb model at $449?

2tb model and I'm in. It's crazy when all this talk was going around about pricing I said ps5 would be either 450 or 500, right on the money if true.

 

[FrostyJ93]

Sony is defintely selling PS5 at a loss for 2TB at $500. 1tb alone is costly nvm 2tb.

 

[Fake]

Scarlett will follow the same path ...
His was asked about how they can release so many games when they should be saving them for Scarlett he said he doesnt need to because they have so many games in the pipeline.

As playstation will do, many games will be cross gen ... there is no mandate that Microsoft or third parties cant release Scarlett only games.

I know, but is important to not mistake 'crossgen' with 'bc'. Crossgen is great for early gen and give devs time to adapt the consoles. After 4 or less devs should master the PS5 hardware and drop support for PS4 in the same way PS3~PS4 get. Only when those games came out we'll see the next gen game.

In the Xbox family is a bit problematic because base Xbox One have a different memory scheme. Will be DDR3+ESRAM vs GDDR5 from Xbox One X and probably GDDR6 from Scarlett.

So, IMO I don't know if will be a good ideia keep supporting base Xbox One. If games start to look bad when Xbox One X launch imagine when Scarlett came out.

 

[Imtjnotu]

2tb model and I'm in. It's crazy when all this talk was going around about pricing I said ps5 would be either 450 or 500, right on the money if true.

I'd pay $500 for that shit in an instant if it's 14tf

 

[rəddəM]

Hmm if true...1tb model at $449?

Now I wait for this U$500,00 to become R$5.000,00

 

[Gamernyc78]

I'd pay $500 for that shit in an instant if it's 14tf

It'll be around 12tf I'm still paying tht, it's worth it.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Sony is defintely selling PS5 at a loss for 2TB at $500. 1tb alone is costly nvm 2tb.

They have 2TB nVME drives for $219 on newegg. I'd assume Sony can get them at incredible discount. They probably pay $50 or at most $100 on them.

 

[VFXVeteran]

It'll be around 12tf I'm still paying tht, it's worth it.

GTX 1080 performance. Compute whatever that would be but it'll be > 10TF if using AMD numbers.

 

[Tqaulity]

i still can’t believe folks are still believing that the next gen consoles will only have 16GB! Guys that is ridiculous. In fact, I promise if either system only had 16GB, devs would riot against. It will literally be suicide for either company to do that.

I would love know what analysis you are referring to pointing to a next console designed to last through to 2025 and beyond to only have 4 more GB than a console released in 2017! Does that really make sense to anyone? While Sony not Microsoft have confirmed anything, most credible leaks that already has been proven to have some credible information has pointed to at least 24GB. You have no reason not to believe that will be the case? I’ll give you some.

Ok I keep saying this so real quick let’s recap: for the past 40 years almost, what has been the #1 requested hardware feature for video game developers working on a console? No not better CPUs, not better GPUs...It’s more memory! Every generation, the polls conducted by the console manufacturer say the same thing...the primary bottleneck that they run into by the end of a console generation is lack of RAM. Having sizeable RAM is the single most important feature to ensure the longevity of a console! This isn’t new guys, this has been the story for generations.

Again, if we look at the history of PlayStation specifically, EVERY SINGLE PLAYSTATION CONSOLE HAD SEEN A 16X INCREASE IN RAM from one generation to the next:
PS1 to PS2 = 2MB to 32MB (16X)
PS2 to PS3 = 32MB to 512MB (16X)
PS3 to PS4 = 512 MB to 8GB (16X)

Remember how Sony was initially targeting only 4GB for PS4 to which developers cried foul and they increased it at the last moment. Clearly that was a critical move that contributed to the success of the PS4 and people acted like they did something so unprecedented but all they did was make sure they kept the precedence established in the past.

So no, PS5 will not have 8GB x 16 = 128GB as that is clearly not feasible and would be excessive given the current standards. But I’ve said that 24GB, which is only a Measly 3x increase over current gen in and of itself, is the absolute minimum. Anything less and devs would be enraged and it will be commercial suicide. Again the Xbox One X already has 12GB. Most midrange laptops come with 16GB today. There is no way a console pushing cutting edge tech like 7nm Zen2, SSD,Ray-Tracing etc designed to last 5-7 years will be viable to support that business model with only 16GB (only a 2x increase from consoles released 7 years earlier!). That’s makes no sense.

I really want to know why folks insist on holding onto to the idea of 16GB in next gen? Even to go so far as to reject the rumors or leaks pointing to 24GB or higher. It contradicts every previous console generation, it contradicts all the leaks for the most part so far, and it defies all logic. Really why?

I'm still waiting...can anyone provide even a little rationale as to why the next gen consoles will only have 16GB of RAM?

 

[Tqaulity]

GTX 1080 performance. Compute whatever that would be but it'll be > 10TF if using AMD numbers.

GTX 1080 performance is roughly the current 5700 XT GPU for desktop. Both next gen console GPUs will be more powerful than that. We're looking closer to 1080ti/RTX 2070 Super/RTX 2080 (vanilla) level power. Trust

 

[bitbydeath]

I'm still waiting...can anyone provide even a little rationale as to why the next gen consoles will only have 16GB of RAM?

I’d think it’d be 20GB minimum.
16GB games
4GB OS

I can’t see them going any lower than that and it’s over a 2x jump from what we have currently which I think would be enough.

RAM is still expensive (I think) and the 16x jumps we had in previous gens are no longer required.

At max I’m thinking 24GB
20GB games
4GB OS

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Somebody else mentioned this on the last past but, wouldn't the OS footprint increase for next-gen? I don't see it being only 4GB; they'll probably increase it to 6GB just to be safe, and scale back later in the gen.

Personally, thinking they'll have 24GB of RAM minimum (as 12x 2GB chips...didn't the Scarlet motherboard have 12 GDDR6 chips on it?). Or if they can somehow get 8x 4GB chips, we could see 32GB RAM for at least one of the systems, but that'll be the absolute maximum.

...Maybe. Some people are still thinking HBM2 could be involved here, so a lot can happen in the meantime.

 

[Bryank75]

 

[Fake]

'No patches, but still require internet.'

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

To follow up on that same convo

 

[demigod]

Hmm if true...1tb model at $449?

This guy is either BSing or the SSD is not removable for them to stick 2TB in there.

 

[bitbydeath]

Somebody else mentioned this on the last past but, wouldn't the OS footprint increase for next-gen? I don't see it being only 4GB; they'll probably increase it to 6GB just to be safe, and scale back later in the gen.

Possibly, the OS currently takes up 3GB. One extra GB may be enough but I guess it depends on if they’re making any radical changes.

 

[VFXVeteran]

GTX 1080 performance is roughly the current 5700 XT GPU for desktop. Both next gen console GPUs will be more powerful than that. We're looking closer to 1080ti/RTX 2070 Super/RTX 2080 (vanilla) level power. Trust

Nope. Not going to happen.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I'm still waiting...can anyone provide even a little rationale as to why the next gen consoles will only have 16GB of RAM?

OS will use the SSD as virtual RAM. No need for higher than 16G.

 

[Tqaulity]

Nope. Not going to happen.

Really? Why Not? I guess you are in the single digit TFLOP camp as well?

 

[Tqaulity]

OS will use the SSD as virtual RAM. No need for higher than 16G.

No need? Why not? Was there a need for 8GB when PS4 launched (5GB in games in know)? People then was saying PS4 would have 4GB or even 2GB because that seemed like more than enough back in 2012/2013. But by 2015, games were already at 8GB limits. Was there a need for 64MB of RAM when the OG Xbox launched? I could go on...

Everyone keeps using current gen games running at max settings on PC as a rationale: no current game uses >8GB etc. But it's not about the current gen games. We are moving to next gen games and creating the worlds of tomorrow will definitely use more than 16GB of total RAM. You never base the RAM decision in a console for what is necessary for current games. You need to be thinking how much RAM will be needed in games 5 years from now (or later).

 

[VFXVeteran]

Really? Why Not? I guess you are in the single digit TFLOP camp as well?

Because I have a close friend and trust what he told me.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Everyone keeps using current gen games running at max settings on PC as a rationale: no current game uses >8GB etc. But it's not about the current gen games. We are moving to next gen games and creating the worlds of tomorrow will definitely use more than 16GB of total RAM. You never base the RAM decision in a console for what is necessary for current games. You need to be thinking how much RAM will be needed in games 5 years from now (or later).

OK. Let's be real about the actual number used for RAM in a game. It's obviously not going to be 16G if the total amount of ram is 16G. So that's that.

I say it won't matter because their SSD tech is nearly as fast as RAM. You could stream a lot of shit like that and will essentially be like having 2TB of RAM (not literally). If I can allocate a virtual memory space of 64G and store variables/data into that space and run a game engine on it without knowing where that 64G is coming from, I don't care what the *actual* RAM is on the system. If a game can literally be installed such that reads/writes are transparent and not the bottleneck, then I'm good. I can see 1st party games using this RAM + SSD = virtual memory this way. If the streaming is consistent without any cache misses, then you'll never know the difference between 16G CPU RAM + SSD or 32G CPU RAM + SSD.

 

[Racer!]

OK. Let's be real about the actual number used for RAM in a game. It's obviously not going to be 16G if the total amount of ram is 16G. So that's that.

I say it won't matter because their SSD tech is nearly as fast as RAM. You could stream a lot of shit like that and will essentially be like having 2TB of RAM (not literally). If I can allocate a virtual memory space of 64G and store variables/data into that space and run a game engine on it without knowing where that 64G is coming from, I don't care what the *actual* RAM is on the system. If a game can literally be installed such that reads/writes are transparent and not the bottleneck, then I'm good. I can see 1st party games using this RAM + SSD = virtual memory this way. If the streaming is consistent without any cache misses, then you'll never know the difference between 16G CPU RAM + SSD or 32G CPU RAM + SSD.

Yeah, just off by a factor of a hundred. Nearly the same

 

[DemonCleaner]

some people on this page haven't paid attention what happened the last half year.

 

[bitbydeath]

some people on this page haven't paid attention what happened the last half year.

8TF team went away?

 

[Imtjnotu]

If any of you care to learn how euv is actually produced, look no further.

 

[BattleScar]

GTX 1080 performance. Compute whatever that would be but it'll be > 10TF if using AMD numbers.

???????
The 5700XT with 40CU and around 9.2TFLOPS handily smashes a GTX 1080 and in some instances like RDR2, beats a 1080ti. The 5700XT also smashes a 12TFLOP Vega 64.
Have you completely forgotten Navi's architectural improvements?

At worst, most people expect the next gen consoles to be based on Navi 10 (40CU).

 

[DemonCleaner]

8TF team went away?

no, but i find it rather strange to read statements like one would need a 10TF rdna GPU to match a gtx1080 in late 2019 since it is pretty much common knowledge that even a 5700non-xt does that handily. some of the opionions on SSDs here are rather strange also.

 

[bhunachicken]

A PS5 at $499 in the US would be sold at £499 in the UK (no tax included in the US price).

I'm okay with that.

 

[gamerforever]

No chance it will be 2tb and £450, try £600! I want the larger hdd due to futureproofing, but to be honest even 8tb is not enough if you plan on redownloading those ps4 games on to it like me.

 

[TeamGhobad]

No chance it will be 2tb and £450, try £600! I want the larger hdd due to futureproofing, but to be honest even 8tb is not enough if you plan on redownloading those ps4 games on to it like me.

they get special deals. for lifetime supply.

 

[psorcerer]

Yeah, just off by a factor of a hundred. Nearly the same

90% of bandwidth is used for writing into render targets which are pretty small.
For all other things 2gb/sec is more than enough.
I'd say 16GB is pretty ok.

 

[gamerforever]

they get special deals. for lifetime supply.

i know economies of scale come into play, but even then the cost of a 2tb ssd drive will be too high and sony won’t bring out a console that makes a loss. Those days are gone.

 

[Mass Shift]

8TF team went away?

It stands to reason that without the 2000GHz clock that either Teams 8TF or 9TF might have been validated for their estimation.

 

[NeroDaGod]

i know economies of scale come into play, but even then the cost of a 2tb ssd drive will be too high and sony won’t bring out a console that makes a loss. Those days are gone.

They will, specially when they include subscription services like PS+, PSNow and the rumoured PS+ Premium that allow them to recoup that money.

 

[pawel86ck]

GTX 1080 performance. Compute whatever that would be but it'll be > 10TF if using AMD numbers.

Even standard 5700 is faster than GTX 1080 in the majority of games, so basically speaking you are in team 7TF.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Even standard 5700 is faster than GTX 1080 in the majority of games, so basically speaking you are in team 7TF.

I'm on no team.

Btw, where are you guys getting this TF number from? Nvidia comparison or AMD?

 

[VFXVeteran]

???????
The 5700XT with 40CU and around 9.2TFLOPS handily smashes a GTX 1080 and in some instances like RDR2, beats a 1080ti. The 5700XT also smashes a 12TFLOP Vega 64.
Have you completely forgotten Navi's architectural improvements?

At worst, most people expect the next gen consoles to be based on Navi 10 (40CU).

LOL! You guys think this GPU is going to be ranked #6 of all-time fastest GPUs currently and sell for $500??? Where are you guys getting this shit from? You guys are wearing complete and utter rose-colored glasses!

You want 24G RAM main memory
You want 2T SSD NvMe
You want GTX 1080Ti or above
You want Ryzen CPU
You are getting a 100GB Bluray drive

All for $500?? Sign me up!

 

[VFXVeteran]

#1 Nvidia Titan RTX	100	TU102	1350/1770 MHz	24GB GDDR6	280W
#2 Nvidia GeForce RTX 2080 Ti	98.4	TU102	1350/1635 MHz	11GB GDDR6	260W
#3 Nvidia GeForce RTX 2080 Super	98.2	TU104	1650/1815 MHz	8GB GDDR6	250W
#4 Nvidia GeForce RTX 2080	96.1	TU104	1515/1800 MHz	8GB GDDR6	225W
#5 Nvidia Titan X	96.0	GP102	1405/1480 MHz	12GB GDDR5X	250W
#6 Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti (pie in the sky Sony bois)	96.0	GP102	1480/1582 MHz	11GB GDDR5X	250W
#7 AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT	95.8	Navi 10	1605/1905 MHz	8GB GDDR6	225W
#8 Nvidia GeForce RTX 2070 Super	94.1	TU104	1605/1770 MHz	8GB GDDR6	215W
#9 AMD Radeon VII	92.4	Vega 20	1400/1750 MHz	16GB HBM2	300W
#10 AMD Radeon RX 5700	87.5	Navi 10	1465/1725 MHz	8GB GDDR6	185W
#11 Nvidia GeForce RTX 2070	87.2	TU106	1410/1710 MHz	8GB GDDR6	185W
#12 Nvidia GeForce RTX 2060 Super	85.4	TU106	1470/1650 MHz	8GB GDDR6	175W
#13 AMD Radeon RX Vega 64	84.4	Vega 10	1274/1546 MHz	8GB HBM2	295W
#14 Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 (my prediction)	84.3	GP104	1607/1733 MHz	8GB GDDR5X	295W

 

[ResilientBanana]

LOL! You guys think this GPU is going to be ranked #6 of all-time fastest GPUs currently and sell for $500??? Where are you guys getting this shit from? You guys are wearing complete and utter rose-colored glasses!

You want 24G RAM main memory
You want 2T SSD NvMe
You want GTX 1080Ti or above
You want Ryzen CPU
You are getting a 100GB Bluray drive

All for $500?? Sign me up!

Finally, another realist.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Finally, another realist.

Wait till 2020 when a lot of other announcements come crashing down since Team Guerrella and Team Kojima control Sony 1st party exclusives.. Death Stranding announcement on PC isn't a one-off.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Wait till 2020 when a lot of other announcements come crashing down since Team Guerrella and Team Kojima control Sony 1st party exclusives.. Death Stranding announcement on PC isn't a one-off.

I'm on the side of the fence where I think selling games is more important than selling consoles. In order for these companies to thrive in this new streaming world, having options is going to be super important and being confined to a single console would be detrimental to their overall business. I think Microsoft understands this, however, Sony isn't far behind. I'm expecting a Playstation PC launcher in 2020 or Q1 2021.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I'm on the side of the fence where I think selling games is more important than selling consoles. In order for these companies to thrive in this new streaming world, having options is going to be super important and being confined to a single console would be detrimental to their overall business. I think Microsoft understands this, however, Sony isn't far behind. I'm expecting a Playstation launcher in 2020 or Q1 2021.

OK. Understand your doubt.

Changes are coming. It's as blatant as you are going to get. It has to do with the whole porting issue that people seem to be locked in one camp.

 

[shenmue mugen]

Now I wait for this U$500,00 to become R$5.000,00

We're so fucked...

 

[bhunachicken]

LOL! You guys think this GPU is going to be ranked #6 of all-time fastest GPUs currently and sell for $500??? Where are you guys getting this shit from? You guys are wearing complete and utter rose-colored glasses!

You want 24G RAM main memory
You want 2T SSD NvMe
You want GTX 1080Ti or above
You want Ryzen CPU
You are getting a 100GB Bluray drive

All for $500?? Sign me up!

I remember back in 2013 when Sony gave us the PS4 with 8GB RAM, a 500GB HDD, and all that other stuff for $399. For the time, that was insane. No one expected that from a next gen console. Pretty much everyone was blown away. The machine went straight to the top of Amazon's movers and shakers with a 2000% jump in one day.

But, let's take a step back.

24GB RAM? More like 16GB with some slower RAM just for the OS.
2TB SSD? Again, I doubt this. It'll be 1TB at most. Maybe even 500GB.
1080 TI? I actually believe this will happen, given supposed 3DMark score leaks. Also, the GPU in the console will be sharing the machine's main RAM and won't have any of its own, thus reducing the cost.

But let's not forget about buying all this stuff in bulk. If I went to buy a PC with the above specs, it's clearly not happening for $500. Even if I buy 10,000 of each component, it's not happening. But what if I put in an order for 12 million of each and pay in advance? What sort of discount am I looking at? And is there a further discount on the next 10 million if I give you some cash for those too? And finally, what if I can do it for $600 but decide to take a loss of $100 on each sale?

 

[gamerforever]

They will, specially when they include subscription services like PS+, PSNow and the rumoured PS+ Premium that allow them to recoup that money.

i hope you are right!

 

[BattleScar]

#1 Nvidia Titan RTX	100	TU102	1350/1770 MHz	24GB GDDR6	280W
#2 Nvidia GeForce RTX 2080 Ti	98.4	TU102	1350/1635 MHz	11GB GDDR6	260W
#3 Nvidia GeForce RTX 2080 Super	98.2	TU104	1650/1815 MHz	8GB GDDR6	250W
#4 Nvidia GeForce RTX 2080	96.1	TU104	1515/1800 MHz	8GB GDDR6	225W
#5 Nvidia Titan X	96.0	GP102	1405/1480 MHz	12GB GDDR5X	250W
#6 Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti (pie in the sky Sony bois)	96.0	GP102	1480/1582 MHz	11GB GDDR5X	250W
#7 AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT	95.8	Navi 10	1605/1905 MHz	8GB GDDR6	225W
#8 Nvidia GeForce RTX 2070 Super	94.1	TU104	1605/1770 MHz	8GB GDDR6	215W
#9 AMD Radeon VII	92.4	Vega 20	1400/1750 MHz	16GB HBM2	300W
#10 AMD Radeon RX 5700	87.5	Navi 10	1465/1725 MHz	8GB GDDR6	185W
#11 Nvidia GeForce RTX 2070	87.2	TU106	1410/1710 MHz	8GB GDDR6	185W
#12 Nvidia GeForce RTX 2060 Super	85.4	TU106	1470/1650 MHz	8GB GDDR6	175W
#13 AMD Radeon RX Vega 64	84.4	Vega 10	1274/1546 MHz	8GB HBM2	295W
#14 Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 (my prediction)	84.3	GP104	1607/1733 MHz	8GB GDDR5X	295W

I mean, according to your own list, even a cut down Navi 10; the 36CU 5700 is faster than a GTX1080? I don't understand your issue? If the consoles have a 10TF Navi card it will be more performant than the 5700XT assuming it has enough bandwidth. Unless you're suggesting that the Navi GPU in the PS5/Scarlett will be significantly underclocked and only computing 7TF peak?

That all aside, do you think the 5700XT be the 7th fastest graphics card in the world in 12 months from now? I mean the 5700XT is the 7th fastest right now, but it's still like 35% slower than a 2080ti. GPU market prices have been inflated for a while since the mining boom, so RRP is not relevant in the discussion for a console that is 12 months from release.
There are rumours of Nvidia's Ampere being headed by a 8000+ cuda core GA100 and 5-7000 cuda core GA102. There are also AMD's own Navi 2x GPUs to be released. By which point, the 2070S/5700XT performance bracket will have shifted down considerably.

Also all this stuff about RAM, SSD etc. Is not something I plan on believing, till I see it. But expecting a console to have performance around the level of a year-old mid-range GPU is not unfathomable to be quite honest.