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[Matt_Fox]

Earlier this month Xbox Game Studios head Matt Booty confirmed the decree that all their new next gen content must also work on the original 2013 Xbox One.

The first real warning sign that this may gimp content and prove difficult or even untenable for devs came today.

Speaking in a podcast about CD Projekt Red's decision to delay Cyberpunk 2077, insider Borys Niespielak "strongly confirmed that the biggest problem is Xbox One (2013 model) and the game there is extremely unsatisfactory."

If a current gen game (albeit a particularly ambitious one) like Cyberpunk 2077 is struggling to work in a satisfactory way on the OG Xbox One console then how will Microsoft's all-singing all-dancing next generation line-up work on their aged console? If the decree stands then will developers be forced to curb and bridle their ambitions for the Xbox Series X from the off?

Is any gamer happy about this decree? Is their a bright side for buyers of the Xbox Series X, because personally I am struggling to see it?

Cyberpunk 2077 delayed because of current gen consoles, new source claims

According to a Polish insider Borys Niespielak, the main reason for Cyberpunk 2077 delay lies in current-gen consoles, which are reportedly not powerful enough to run the game properly.

www.altchar.com

 

[Zannegan]

That has to be for first party stuff, right? No way that mandate will fly with a company like Rockstar.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Shit, did I go back in time on Gaf again or what?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Uh, this has already been addressed multiple times, and the consensus is that, there's not too big an issue to worry about. Graphics will be scalable, so will physics, enemy count, A.I, etc. It'll be like developing on PC but with even more precision over how things can scale.

I still personally don't think XBO or the X (or really, anything outside of XSX and PC) need native ports; just use Xcloud & Gamepass and that should do well enough. BUT, I also see how when you think about it, cross-gen support in the way MS wants to do it at least for this year and most of next is feasible without holding back the upper end.

Plus, it gives consumers more choice overall, so I guess that's a good thing.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

just for those who don’t know (because this has been talked about to death now)

- games scale, this is the way it’s always been
- it’s first party only
- it’s only for a short amount of time and will only apply to a couple of games really

People will once again now be in this thread talking about how GTA6 and stuff will be forced to run on old hardware, which is wrong. So, well done, i guess.

 

[nikolino840]

They have already said that Is Just for a couple of years and not Forever

Is not a big deal

 

[Okami Haundo]

I thought Booty only said that first-party content wouldn't be exclusive? That makes the most sense to me, as they'd have more time and resources to scale games down for older hardware. I can't see them enforcing this for third parties.

 

[Grinchy]

I don't think there's any decree. Microsoft is pretending their next-gen games will work on last-gen, but in reality, they just don't have any next-gen games ready for the first year.

After that year is up and they finally release a next-gen game, it will not work on last-gen systems, and everyone will forget all about the PR fantasy about every gamer being included.

 

[phil_t98]

Earlier this month Xbox Game Studios head Matt Booty confirmed the decree that all their new next gen content must also work on the original 2013 Xbox One.

The first real warning sign that this may gimp content and prove difficult or even untenable for devs came today.

Speaking in a podcast about CD Projekt Red's decision to delay Cyberpunk 2077, insider Borys Niespielak "strongly confirmed that the biggest problem is Xbox One (2013 model) and the game there is extremely unsatisfactory."

If a current gen game (albeit a particularly ambitious one) like Cyberpunk 2077 is struggling to work in a satisfactory way on the OG Xbox One console then how will Microsoft's all-singing all-dancing next generation line-up work on their aged console? If the decree stands then will developers be forced to curb and bridle their ambitions for the Xbox Series X from the off?

Is any gamer happy about this decree? Is their a bright side for buyers of the Xbox Series X, because personally I am struggling to see it?

Cyberpunk 2077 delayed because of current gen consoles, new source claims

According to a Polish insider Borys Niespielak, the main reason for Cyberpunk 2077 delay lies in current-gen consoles, which are reportedly not powerful enough to run the game properly.

www.altchar.com

didn’t most games the start of this gen work on last gen? Isn’t that how most gens usually start

 

[Gavin Stevens]

I don't think there's any decree. Microsoft is pretending their next-gen games will work on last-gen, but in reality, they just don't have any next-gen games ready for the first year.

After that year is up and they finally release a next-gen game, it will not work on last-gen systems, and everyone will forget all about the PR fantasy about every gamer being included.

 

[diffusionx]

They've been working on CP2077 full-bore since 2015 at least. The teaser trailer is older than either the Xbox One or PS4.

This idea that it would have been designed for consoles and PC hardware that didn't exist yet and was years down the line is fanciful. The game probably is too much for Xbox One, but lots of games over the decades are too big for their hardware.

 

[Bandi]

Earlier this month Xbox Game Studios head Matt Booty confirmed the decree that all their new next gen content must also work on the original 2013 Xbox One.

The first real warning sign that this may gimp content and prove difficult or even untenable for devs came today.

Speaking in a podcast about CD Projekt Red's decision to delay Cyberpunk 2077, insider Borys Niespielak "strongly confirmed that the biggest problem is Xbox One (2013 model) and the game there is extremely unsatisfactory."

If a current gen game (albeit a particularly ambitious one) like Cyberpunk 2077 is struggling to work in a satisfactory way on the OG Xbox One console then how will Microsoft's all-singing all-dancing next generation line-up work on their aged console? If the decree stands then will developers be forced to curb and bridle their ambitions for the Xbox Series X from the off?

Is any gamer happy about this decree? Is their a bright side for buyers of the Xbox Series X, because personally I am struggling to see it?

Cyberpunk 2077 delayed because of current gen consoles, new source claims

According to a Polish insider Borys Niespielak, the main reason for Cyberpunk 2077 delay lies in current-gen consoles, which are reportedly not powerful enough to run the game properly.

www.altchar.com

haha stop with the pathetic spinning, bruh.

this is only for XBOX FIRST PARTY games, not for third party,, also it will be like this gen.. lastgen games will have less features and less modes etc. so it wont be the same version

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

It’s the first year or so and for games that will have been long in development for current gen anyway. People need to get real.

 

[Bandi]

They have already said that Is Just for a couple of years and not Forever

Is not a big deal

they said its only for THE FIRST YEAR of the console. A SINGLE YEAR. not even a couple of years lol.

AND its only FOR MICROSOFT FIRST PARTY GAMES

 

[MoreJRPG]

It’s a first party only mandate for one-two years, it’s not the end of the world.

You have the exact same constraint with PCs. You have ultra settings and low settings, people act like this has never been a thing

 

[Tragic Denial]

just add an asterisk to that statement

* Using Xcloud

there it is

hire me Booty, shake your Booty

 

[Gavin Stevens]

It’s actually beyond embarrassing that people think this is some new thing. I guarantee you that if Sony had said this first, there would be no problem, at all.

 

[Ascend]

Here we go again...

 

[GHG]

They've been working on CP2077 full-bore since 2015 at least. The teaser trailer is older than either the Xbox One or PS4.

This idea that it would have been designed for consoles and PC hardware that didn't exist yet and was years down the line is fanciful. The game probably is too much for Xbox One, but lots of games over the decades are too big for their hardware.

CDPR have always been a "PC first" development studio.

The OG Xbox One was poor, even by 2013 PC standards when it released.

At first they were even reluctant to even announce it for current gen consoles:

Cyberpunk 2077 "probably" coming to PS4, Xbox One

CD Projekt Red rep says upcoming RPG "most probably" will be coming to next-gen consoles; game is "mind-blowing."

www.gamespot.com

They didn't even officially announce it for consoles until after the current gen refreshes (Pro and X) were announced:

The blood, sweat and tears behind Cyberpunk 2077

There are few higher pedestals to be placed on at E3 than the 'and one more thing' moment closing out a first-party pre…

www.gamesindustry.biz

 

[M1chl]

Pres X to doubt, how long they work on this? I think that someone in here says, that since 2012, so I highly doubt that's the case. In that case PS4 would be problem too. And if like...what does the delay solve exactly? If the Microsoft constraint is real. They will delay it one year or what? What kind of logic is this? Those "insiders" starts to get really annoying.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Should we pretend that it doesn't work on the Xbox One, but no problem at all on the PS4? While every other game ever was able to work on both systems, but suddenly it's only the Xbox One that is holding the game back. Ok...

 

[ethomaz]

Imagine a next-gen being hold back by Xbox One

Reality is cruel.

Should we pretend that it doesn't work on the Xbox One, but no problem at all on the PS4? While every other game ever was able to work on both systems, but suddenly it's only the Xbox One that is holding the game back. Ok...

Why not both? And Pro and X.
After all the CPUs are basically the same with little overclock.

Said that the GPU in Xbox One is really that weak compared even with PS4.

 

[diffusionx]

CDPR have always been a "PC first" development studio.

The OG Xbox One was poor, even by 2013 PC standards when it released.

At first they were even reluctant to even announce it for current gen consoles:

Cyberpunk 2077 "probably" coming to PS4, Xbox One

CD Projekt Red rep says upcoming RPG "most probably" will be coming to next-gen consoles; game is "mind-blowing."

www.gamespot.com

They didn't even officially announce it for consoles until after the current gen refreshes (Pro and X) were announced:

The blood, sweat and tears behind Cyberpunk 2077

There are few higher pedestals to be placed on at E3 than the 'and one more thing' moment closing out a first-party pre…

www.gamesindustry.biz

Fair enough, but that means that maybe they shouldn't have announced it for consoles. It's not like the Xbox One has atrophied since they announced it for consoles. They knew what they were getting into. The system is what it is. Gamers are quick to blame the hardware ,especially when a new gen is coming, but in reality, the devs and publishers make the decisions on what to support.

 

[Spukc]

damn op you made that idea up all by yourself?

 

[Mattyp]

I don't think there's any decree. Microsoft is pretending their next-gen games will work on last-gen, but in reality, they just don't have any next-gen games ready for the first year.

After that year is up and they finally release a next-gen game, it will not work on last-gen systems, and everyone will forget all about the PR fantasy about every gamer being included.

Halo on the new slipspace engine is next gen, the newest Forzatech is next gen. We will get these games at launch, they are next gen games as much as you guys run around screaming no they aren’t.

Can’t wait to see how shit they look in comparison maxed on PC to the PS5 launch titles but of course.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Why not both? And Pro and X.

Because they are only mentioning the Xbox One... Which tells me that it's BS or just a fanboy.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

I sort of wish CDPR would just can the current gen versions and stick to next gen/pc... this game deserves more, regardless. And BOTH current gen machines likely had a lot to do with how it’s turned out.

 

[ethomaz]

Uh, this has already been addressed multiple times, and the consensus is that, there's not too big an issue to worry about. Graphics will be scalable, so will physics, enemy count, A.I, etc. It'll be like developing on PC but with even more precision over how things can scale.

I still personally don't think XBO or the X (or really, anything outside of XSX and PC) need native ports; just use Xcloud & Gamepass and that should do well enough. BUT, I also see how when you think about it, cross-gen support in the way MS wants to do it at least for this year and most of next is feasible without holding back the upper end.

Plus, it gives consumers more choice overall, so I guess that's a good thing.

People talk about that consensus scale but...

PC didn't scale to very old hardware... games on PC have a minimum scale limitation that allow that the developers can envolve without being hold by old hardware.

We should not have games like it is today if developers have to scale games to GTX 280 or Radeon X1800 yet (or Intel Pentium 4 and AMD Athlon 64).

 

[Bergoglio]

And this is on Cyberpunk 2077. A current generation game.

Imagine titles of 2021 22.

XSX no go for me.

 

[ethomaz]

Because they are only mentioning the Xbox One... Which tells me that it's BS or just a fanboy.

Maybe because the Xbox One has the lowest GPU?

 

[GHG]

Pres X to doubt, how long they work on this? I think that someone in here says, that since 2012, so I highly doubt that's the case. In that case PS4 would be problem too. And if like...what does the delay solve exactly? If the Microsoft constraint is real. They will delay it one year or what? What kind of logic is this? Those "insiders" starts to get really annoying.

How Xbox One S is falling behind - but also defining the future

What does the future hold for the Xbox One S? At Digital Foundry, we've noted something of a concerning trend for Micro…

www.eurogamer.net

And that was a year ago.

The situation hasn't improved in the last year, it's only got worse with releases like Control (10fps) and the latest Star Wars game (20fps with multi second freezes) .

These base consoles need to be put out of their misery.

 

[Dory16]

CD Project is not subjected to a decree to make this run on the OG xbox (they're not first party) and they knew the capacity of the console from the start. If anything. this is proof that Studios are designing games from the top down and not bottom up. they never targeted the One to begin with and neither will the first party studios that actually have a "decree".
Another misguiding headline designed to cynically click bait.

 

[Monkeygourmet]

Yes this sucks quite frankly.

First party games are supposed to be the showstoppers.

By the time series X comes out at potentially £499 you will be able to pick up an X second hand for £129 and play all the exclusives at ‘medium’ settings...

What’s the point of exclusives at this stage.

 

[GHG]

CD Project is not submitted to a decree to make this run on the OG xbox (they're not first party) and they knew the capacity of the console from the start. If anything. this is proof that Studios are designing games from the top down and not bottom up. they never targeted the One to begin with and neither will the first party studios that actually have a "decree".
Another misguiding headline designed to cynically click bait.

People have literally been saying the top down approach is fine though in the last few weeks and that nothing is lost when taking that approach?

 

[CyberPanda]

just for those who don’t know (because this has been talked about to death now)

- games scale, this is the way it’s always been
- it’s first party only
- it’s only for a short amount of time and will only apply to a couple of games really

People will once again now be in this thread talking about how GTA6 and stuff will be forced to run on old hardware, which is wrong. So, well done, i guess.

Please don’t post logic in this thread.

 

[ethomaz]

I just locked for the rumored minimum system requirements of Cyberpunk 2077.
It is not official.

Minimum Requirements

• OS: Win 7 64
• Processor: Intel Core i5-2500K 3.3GHz / AMD FX-8320
• Graphics: AMD Radeon R9 380 or NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 2GB
• VRAM: 2GB
• System Memory: 8 GB RAM
• Storage: 70 GB Hard drive space
• DirectX 11 Compatible Graphics Card

But if these are true then I can see they having issue to run on Xbox One (similar to HD 7770) and even PS4 (similar to HD 7850).
And CPU well it is vastly better than the CPU found on XB1 and PS4.

 

[Dory16]

People have literally been saying the top down approach is fine though in the last few weeks?

If it's fine then I don't understand the general moaning about Series X games being available on current gen the first 2 years. That's the definition of top-down.

 

[ethomaz]

Pres X to doubt, how long they work on this? I think that someone in here says, that since 2012, so I highly doubt that's the case. In that case PS4 would be problem too. And if like...what does the delay solve exactly? If the Microsoft constraint is real. They will delay it one year or what? What kind of logic is this? Those "insiders" starts to get really annoying.

They will delay enough to change the game (and probably decrease some workloads) to works fine almost 30fps on XB1/PS4.
That is how it works.

 

[TBiddy]

And this is on Cyberpunk 2077. A current generation game.

Imagine titles of 2021 22.

XSX no go for me.

As if you were planning to buy it. Concern trolling at it’s best.

At least pretend you understand there is no decree and that the premise of the OP is wrong.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Maybe because the Xbox One has the lowest GPU?

So? You were just saying that probably both consoles are holding back the game. Just because one has a weaker GPU it doesn't make sense to only call out that console, if both of them are too weak for it.

 

[M1chl]

They will delay enough to change the game (and probably decrease some workloads) to works fine almost 30fps on XB1/PS4.
That is how it works.

Well we see, i highly doubt that is the case, because they have very good experience with current gen OG consoles, what they can do. Besides, they are those who make The Witcher 3 works on Switch, so I really don't doubt their proficiency in this field. Why would they make something which cannot run on their pretty sizable userbase? (Mainly meant PS4)

 

[GHG]

If it's fine then I don't understand the general moaning about Series X games being available on current gen the first 2 years. That's the definition of top-down.

Taking a top down approach for software development is suicide unless you have separate teams doing different versions.

Best practice dictates you always start with the lowest configuration and then scale up where possible while maintaining the same level of core functionality across all versions.

My guess is CDPR probably took the scale down approach because they've always aimed to be ambitious with their projects and when it started development they hadn't struck big on consoles yet. Then the console money came flooding in from the success of the Witcher 3 and they figured there was too much money on consoles to ignore so it was all hands on deck to find a way to make this game also work on consoles.

What they should have done is just said it's too much for the base PS4 and Xbox and we will release a console version once the next generation of consoles arrive.

 

[ethomaz]

So? You were just saying that probably both consoles are holding back the game. Just because one has a weaker GPU it doesn't make sense to only call out that console, if both of them are too weak for it.

It makes sense because original Xbox One has a 1.31TFs GPU... if they make it run on XB1 it will run fine on PS4.

 

[ruvikx]

They have already said that Is Just for a couple of years and not Forever

Is not a big deal

Indeed. 2 years, first party only. Whoop-de-doo. So that's Forza, Halo & some other stuff? It's hardly going to change much.

 

[Dory16]

Taking a top down approach for software development is suicide unless you have separate teams doing different versions.

Best practice dictates you always start with the lowest configuration and then scale up where possible while maintaining the same level of core functionality across all versions.

My guess is CDPR probably took the scale down approach because they've always aimed to be ambitious with their projects and when it started development they hadn't struck big on consoles yet. Then the console money came flooding in from the success of the Witcher 3 and they figured there was too much money on consoles to ignore so it was all hands on deck to find a way to make this game also work on consoles.

What they should have done is just said it's too much for the base PS4 and Xbox and we will release a console version once the next generation of consoles arrive.

I'm sure CD Project knows the best software development practices. As a matter of fact, as a software developer myself, I can tell you that things like bottom up or top down do not appear in any software engineering book. what does often appear is agile and scalability (the ability of the software's performance to adjust as more or less hardware capacity is thrown at it).

As for what they should have done (and did), it's exactly what they have done in the past with the witcher 3. A game that came out with very high minimum PC hardware requirements and ended up being ported to the Switch. Scalability.

 

[ethomaz]

Taking a top down approach for software development is suicide unless you have separate teams doing different versions.

Best practice dictates you always start with the lowest configuration and then scale up where possible while maintaining the same level of core functionality across all versions.

My guess is CDPR probably took the scale down approach because they've always aimed to be ambitious with their projects and when it started development they hadn't struck big on consoles yet. Then the console money came flooding in from the success of the Witcher 3 and they figured there was too much money on consoles to ignore so it was all hands on deck to find a way to make this game also work on consoles.

What they should have done is just said it's too much for the base PS4 and Xbox and we will release a console version once the next generation of consoles arrive.

Yeap... people misunderstand top-down development.

Top-down development you use everything you have in the top hardware (so a lot of features that can't run on old hardware) and after you start to convert (port) that to the down hardware.

Scalability doesn't work with top-down development.

If you want that so famous work "scalability" in your development then you need to develop your game already taking in mind the lowest hardware it will run... so you need to make your effects compatibly with down to the lowest hardware... you archive that or doing conditional operations (if x uses that else uses that other) or using functions and features that work across all hardware (not using new features of the new hardware).

Even so with scalability development you will have a series of issues in specif hardware to be fixed at optimization time... some are easy to fix and other required a complete redesign/code to fix it.

I'm sure CD Project knows the best software development practices. As a matter of fact, as a software developer myself, I can tell you that things like bottom up or top down do not appear in any software engineering book. what does often appear is agile and scalability (the ability of the software's performance to adjust as more or less hardware capacity is thrown at it).

As for what they should have done (and did), it's exactly what they have done in the past with the witcher 3. A game that came out with very high minimum PC hardware requirements and ended up being ported to the Switch. Scalability.

Port <> Scalability.

You can port anything to anything since you have time and money.
You can't scale anything to anything not matter the time and money you have.

In a port you can remake/recode everything in the game to reach the target hardware.
In a scalability scenario you can't do that because you will reach a point you need to make a port.

 

[ThaMonkeyClaw]

That has to be for first party stuff, right? No way that mandate will fly with a company like Rockstar.

I would imagine it would just be first party titles, they can't force 3rd party devs to make a game for a console, otherwise we will see a lot less games on Microsoft's systems...

 

[TBiddy]

I would imagine it would just be first party titles, they can't force 3rd party devs to make a game for a console, otherwise we will see a lot less games on Microsoft's systems...

Only first party and only for a year or two.

 

[Monkeygourmet]

Indeed. 2 years, first party only. Whoop-de-doo. So that's Forza, Halo & some other stuff? It's hardly going to change much.

And that’s also very sad for those thinking MS actually had bothered to invest in new IPs and titles to showcase the Series X.

 

[Zannegan]

I would imagine it would just be first party titles, they can't force 3rd party devs to make a game for a console, otherwise we will see a lot less games on Microsoft's systems...

Yep, and as many who have been following the news more closely than I have pointed out, since the beginning it's been first party titles only and only for the first year. I need to do a better job of staying abreast of these things, but it's nice to see MS being logical and predictable instead of crippling themselves frkm the outset.