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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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B

Bladed Thesis

Member
OsirisBlack said:
Not that something more exciting.

This is completely subjective. I recently had the opportunity to have a crash course in art design and artistic decision. It may TECHNICALLY be better but that does not mean it will look better. A great example is RDR2 vs Horizon ZD's lighting. One is realistic as fuck and the other takes artistic liberties. One is technically superior while the other subjectively looks better because of the art design.
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Is there supposed to be an announcement today?
 
H

hussar16

Member
to the people saying ps5 will be weak and 9tflops you have to see that Microsoft didn't come out and say that their console is the strongest console to be made ,if it was they would milk it just like they did with xbox one x, so them not stating it means Microsoft knows Sonys console is a beast aswell
 
alabtrosMyster

alabtrosMyster

Banned
geordiemp said:
What if Ps5 has less TF but has PowerVR ray tracing silicon



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I feel like Cerny when I read that document.
The PowerVR Scene Hierarchy Generator splits the scene into a hierarchical tree of bounding boxes: essentially a large box containing the scene which then is split hierarchically into ever smaller bounding boxes until the lowest level contains triangles. This hierarchical approach cuts down the number of tests by checking ray box intersections and then drilling down inside it until the correct triangle is located.


While both Imagination’s and NVIDIA’s core contain the Ray/Box Intersection in hardware and both use a Bounding Volume Hierarchy (BVH) data structure only Imagination has the Scene Hierarchy Generator (SGH) in hardware, which means we can support dynamic geometry (e.g. animated characters in a game) much more efficiently. Another key differentiator in PowerVR is an optional block called the Ray Coherency Engine. When rays hit most natural type of materials in a 3D scene, they tend to scatter randomly and are therefore unlikely to be coherent. This random ray behaviour means that as rays are processed they hit and go off in different directions and thus intersect different boxes/triangles. This greatly decreases memory access efficiency and as a result, reduces performance. The Coherency Engine finds commonality between rays and then groups them together, increasing efficiency but at a silicon cost.

AMD currently does not have any dedicated hardware for ray tracing and uses the shaders to perform all ray tracing computation, resulting in much lower performance.
Click to expand...

As usual PowerVR is more efficient, but we don't know what AMD will come up with, not what Nvidia's next gen RT cores will be like.
 
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H

hussar16

Member
Chromata said:
I don't quite understand your apprehension regarding next gen consoles. Typically, consoles will provide mid to high range PC performance at launch (and current gen CPUs were definitely on the lower end).

Next gen consoles have extremely high end GPUs with RDNA 2 (not even available on PC yet), SSDs faster than those on the market, and a whole slew of exciting new features (like VRS or unique RT implementations from the sounds of it), all the while with an actually respectable CPU and RAM.

This isn't a typical console upgrade, it's a very well balanced jump in every way. I agree that it isn't going to give us CGI graphics, but I think you're really underplaying the potential these machines have.
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if the order 1886 looked near cgi on a 1tf then yes the games will look like cgi with the best developers
 
N

NickFire

Member
hussar16 said:
to the people saying ps5 will be weak and 9tflops you have to see that Microsoft didn't come out and say that their console is the strongest console to be made ,if it was they would milk it just like they did with xbox one x, so them not stating it means Microsoft knows Sonys console is a beast aswell
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I had the exact same thought but then pushed it out of my mind. IMO, MS would be taking too much risk to their credibility and possible allegations of false advertising (down the road) if they said something that definitive before official specs were shared by Sony.
 
Insane Metal

Insane Metal

Member
My guesses:

XOX: $249 or 299
XSS: $399
PS5: $499
XSX: $599

XSS: nextgen entry, nextgen hardware, all bells and whistles, RDNA2 and Ryzen 2, runs games at FHD or QHD.
XSX: hardcore nextgen, for those who want the best possible settings in all their games.

I can see the XSS being more than the 4TF people have talked about. How about 7 or 8. That would make it absolutely capable of running anything the XSX can run but at lower resolutions.
 
H

hussar16

Member
NickFire said:
I had the exact same thought but then pushed it out of my mind. IMO, MS would be taking too much risk to their credibility and possible allegations of false advertising (down the road) if they said something that definitive before official specs were shared by Sony.
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exactly that's why we know its not 9 tflops its close to 12 or excedds it,Microsoft knows this
 
Chromata

Chromata

Member
hussar16 said:
if the order 1886 looked near cgi on a 1tf then yes the games will look like cgi with the best developers
Click to expand...

It looked amazing but I wouldn't say it was near CGI since there's so much depth/detail everywhere in CGI which games aren't even close to. Just look at Alita Battle Angel for instance. Nothing on PS4 (and I'm sure PS5) comes close.
 
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J

jsig212james

Banned
OsirisBlack OsirisBlack I understand not wanting to tell all, but you at least need to clarify some things. You mentioned a slew of exclusives/games coming to the next Xbox, but almost all of them have been debunked. You mentioned Killer Instinct 2, despite the dev coming out and saying they weren't working on a new game. You also mentioned Superman, despite other journalists saying it wasn't true, and almost all the devs under the publisher obviously working on other things.

The mods seem to trust you, but some of this stuff just isn't sitting right. Like at all.
 
saintjules

saintjules

Member
OsirisBlack OsirisBlack So back in September Zenji Nishikawa said he had heard that this time, Sony was pushing for the Pro at the start of the generation. I haven't heard much about that since, but it always intrigued me, especially because he knew about the Switch Lite before it was announced. I'd love to get your take on if you heard anything like this. Probably no longer on the table of conversation, but I still find it interesting.

www.gamesradar.com

PS5 Pro could launch alongside PS5 according to this rumor

"The aim is for PS5 and PS5 Pro to be released simultaneously"
www.gamesradar.com www.gamesradar.com

Nishikawa says it was a rumor he wasn't able to discuss on backspace.fm, the tech podcast he co-hosts, but he still goes on to share a few details: "Somehow at the venue of this year's CEDEC, the rumors that were flowing were quite interesting," Nishikawa says. Note that I used YouTube's automatic translation feature together with my limited understanding of Japanese to put these quotes together, so they're bound to be imperfect.
Click to expand...

"This time from the beginning the aim is for PS5 and PS5 Pro to be released simultaneously," Nishikawa says, again citing rumors that were circulating at the conference.
Click to expand...

The big question, aside from whether those rumors were accurate, is how a PS5 Pro's specs would differ to a standard PS5 at launch. Unfortunately, Nishikawa didn't expand much on the subject. What we know about PS5 so far is that it will have a solid-state drive to cut loading times, and that it will likely support up to 8K graphics with ray tracing supported from the beginning. That sounds, uh, really good already. So what would a PS5 Pro do on top of that to establish itself as the top-of-the-line PlayStation experience?
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SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Even if Sony comes in under MS's 12 tflops, it wont be 9 tflops. high 10s to mid 11 is highly likely imo.

It will be interesting to see if Sony gave up the tflops war to win the ssd and hbm war. im still hoping for an hbm miracle. if they have a different and better ray tracing solutions, things will get very interesting next gen.

MS - more tflops
Sony - better ray tracing, more bandwidth and better ssd speeds.

if MS has more bandwidth, ray tracing and more tflops, phil and his team of engineers deserve a lot of credit. but i dont think it will be a big enough gap like last gen.
 
Kazekage1981

Kazekage1981

Member
this may be a noob question but here it goes:

Microsoft will soon be releasing Windows 10X which gets rid of legacy win32 applications and focuses more on Universal Windows Platform (UWP) and Progressive Web Apps (PWA). The development of Xbox One and One X games does not use UWP except for one game: Forza Motorsport 6 Apex. With new API's besides Direct X 12, such as the Artificial Intelligent API, Ray Tracing API, will this make development of games for XsX and future desktops and laptops easier, and better? VFXVeteran VFXVeteran do you use Microsoft visual studio using UWP in conjunction with your game engine to develop games for windows and xbox?
 
OsirisBlack

OsirisBlack

Banned
jsig212james said:
OsirisBlack OsirisBlack I understand not wanting to tell all, but you at least need to clarify some things. You mentioned a slew of exclusives/games coming to the next Xbox, but almost all of them have been debunked. You mentioned Killer Instinct 2, despite the dev coming out and saying they weren't working on a new game. You also mentioned Superman, despite other journalists saying it wasn't true, and almost all the devs under the publisher obviously working on other things.

The mods seem to trust you, but some of this stuff just isn't sitting right. Like at all.
Click to expand...

gq5p9R7.png


Name omitted for obvious reasons.
 
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saintjules

saintjules

Member
Insane Metal said:
My guesses:

XOX: $249 or 299
XSS: $399
PS5: $499
XSX: $599

XSS: nextgen entry, nextgen hardware, all bells and whistles, RDNA2 and Ryzen 2, runs games at FHD or QHD.
XSX: hardcore nextgen, for those who want the best possible settings in all their games.

I can see the XSS being more than the 4TF people have talked about. How about 7 or 8. That would make it absolutely capable of running anything the XSX can run but at lower resolutions.
Click to expand...

I'm with ya on this. Though I think they might push that XSS to $299. But $399 seems logical as well.
 
Tsaki

Tsaki

Member
VFXVeteran said:
Alright people. One last time..

I heard that there are 2 consoles per company. The mid-gen refreshes are going to be introduced at release so that these consoles can run the entire 7yr cycle.

XSX that was released yesterday is the top end one. 12TFLOPS
There will be a base Xbox Series X that is slower than that one.

Sony is releasing 2 PS models. The base PS5 is 9TFLOPs . Their other one is also top of the line to compete with XSX top dog.

This all makes sense now as to why people are getting mixed numbers for each of the platforms.

I also heard that the top of the line models will be expensive. No pricing but I would guess around $600.

Also no dates on when the top models will come out for PS5.

My guess is that they are going to release both models at the same time.

This is ALL I know and won't be fishing for anymore info.
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What? These are huge news if true. But I wonder what kind of market the weaker PS5 is supposed to cover. Lockhart is supposed to be 4TF designed for 1080p gaming and it makes sense, 1/3 of resolution for 1/4 of compute (taking into account some overhead).
 
Hawking Radiation

Hawking Radiation

Member
OsirisBlack said:
I own FFXIV and all of its dlc on every platform as well as For honor and R6 siege...... I also have just about every skin in smite on every platform including the shit that just came out today.... The only addiction I have is gaming.
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Forget this kind of talk. All we want to hear from you is juicy next gen stuff. You're kind of losing your insider status by talking about other things.

If you need to, go for a walk, take deep breaths and come back fresh with new insider info on the next gen consoles.

Please, do not let us down like that again by chatting nonsense about stuff other than next gen consoles.

:p
 
David Ricardo

David Ricardo

Member
VFXVeteran said:
Alright people. One last time..

I heard that there are 2 consoles per company. The mid-gen refreshes are going to be introduced at release so that these consoles can run the entire 7yr cycle.

XSX that was released yesterday is the top end one. 12TFLOPS
There will be a base Xbox Series X that is slower than that one.

Sony is releasing 2 PS models. The base PS5 is 9TFLOPs . Their other one is also top of the line to compete with XSX top dog.

This all makes sense now as to why people are getting mixed numbers for each of the platforms.

I also heard that the top of the line models will be expensive. No pricing but I would guess around $600.

Also no dates on when the top models will come out for PS5.

My guess is that they are going to release both models at the same time.

This is ALL I know and won't be fishing for anymore info.
Click to expand...
Terrible news if true. Top models are going to be limited by whatever is possible in the peasant model.
 
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J

jsig212james

Banned
OsirisBlack said:
gq5p9R7.png
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Microsoft owns the KI IP, so it wouldn't be anywhere else besides and Xbox.

And that still clarifies nothing about WB. I typed out a pretty comprehensive list of every WB studio and partnership and what they're working on, and none of them are Superman. WB Games is pretty much an open book within their offices, so everyone knows what the studios are working on, and nobody has mentioned Superman.
 
CrustyBritches

CrustyBritches

Gold Member
The review for this new NZXT H1 ITX case has been popping on my Youtube feed from different channels and I got a good chuckle from it.

RSadAfw.jpg


Kinda reminds me of something I've seen before, but I can't quite place it.
9xCkW68.jpg

:messenger_grinning_sweat:
PCGamer: Build your own Xbox Series X killer inside this lookalike case
$349:whistle:...comes with a 650W Gold PSU, but still, no thanks. I've been thinking about going with a Silverstone ML08 or Cougar QBX at some point. I'm not King Midas, so I can't afford that high-end swag.
 
bitbydeath

bitbydeath

Gold Member
CrustyBritches said:
The review for this new NZXT H1 ITX case has been popping on my Youtube feed from different channels and I got a good chuckle from it.

RSadAfw.jpg


Kinda reminds me of something I've seen before, but I can't quite place it.
9xCkW68.jpg

:messenger_grinning_sweat:
PCGamer: Build your own Xbox Series X killer inside this lookalike case
$349:whistle:...comes with a 650W Gold PSU, but still, no thanks. I've been thinking about going with a Silverstone ML08 or Cougar QBX at some point. I'm not King Midas, so I can't afford that high-end swag.
Click to expand...

No top vents tho, I wonder if MS will change that in the final design.
 
sonomamashine

sonomamashine

Member
CrustyBritches said:
The review for this new NZXT H1 ITX case has been popping on my Youtube feed from different channels and I got a good chuckle from it.

RSadAfw.jpg


Kinda reminds me of something I've seen before, but I can't quite place it.
9xCkW68.jpg

:messenger_grinning_sweat:
PCGamer: Build your own Xbox Series X killer inside this lookalike case
$349:whistle:...comes with a 650W Gold PSU, but still, no thanks. I've been thinking about going with a Silverstone ML08 or Cougar QBX at some point. I'm not King Midas, so I can't afford that high-end swag.
Click to expand...
Phone Boot. 🤣
 
CrustyBritches

CrustyBritches

Gold Member
bitbydeath said:
No top vents tho, I wonder if MS will change that in the final design.
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Probably not since the XSX is running an APU, likely with something like the vapor chamber cooler in X1X, and they'd want the box to pull in air through some tiny holes in the bottom or side and vent it out the top. This NZXT case has metal mesh on the side like that to support a full-size graphics card with 2-3 fan config, so it vents out the side like that. My ThermalTake V21 case has that sort of metal mesh/holes on the top panel with a thin mesh with magnets that overlay on it. All the hot air just vents out the top.

sonomamashine said:
Phone Booth. 🤣
Click to expand...
Zoomer kids: "WhAt's a PhOne bOoTh?":messenger_grinning_smiling:
 
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best

thicc_girls_are_teh_best

Member
BlacknGold_Blood said:
Here’s something that, for a reason God only knows, I just learned about Github today. People keep clinging to the 36-40 CU Oberon shown in the leak, but in fact, at the time, that was the ONLY NAVI APU available for testing. That means that the final PS5 chip could be just as likely, or probably more than likely, be a 52 or 56 CU APU. A higher than max-40-CU part didn’t exist at that time! This shocked me today when I heard this and it even further lowered the relevance of github in my mind.
Click to expand...

So why have they been testing Oberon as recently as last December?

If there's another stepping or revision for the chip out there, it will most likely surface within the next couple of months. If it doesn't, then such a stepping or revision never existed. Because by then it would have been too late for them to go with a different chip or increased chip and still squeeze in the QA testing time and optimizations to go for a launch this year.

And some have tried speculating they have simultaneous systems in development but that doesn't fit Sony's next-gen strategy nor are there any documented references for it. And keep in mind Arden was also in that leak, which disproves 36-40 CU Oberon was the only chip available for testing at that time. There are several which were being tested around that time including XSX's chip going by the looks of things.

Again, even I don't regard Github with too much relevance, but it still has a good deal of relevance due to the persistent Oberon benchmarks that have surfaced since then. And the chances of one of those steppings being representative of the final hardware is strong since several benchmarks for other cards and chips have been officiated/validated through actual product announcements matching those exact specifications (more or less).

That's why I think, for anyone hoping dearly for some concrete existence of some of the other rumors and speculation, your best bet is to hope another Oberon stepping or revision shows up within the next two months reflecting the configuration needed to fit those rumors and speculation. And it's pretty probable that'll happen, but it hasn't happened yet. I'm giving it 2 more months, think that's fair enough and a realistic timeframe tbqh.
 
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