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[darkinstinct]

fucking lol if true

Looks like companies do have a reason to not talk about their hardware when it's weaker. It was clear back in April last year when Cerny talked up SSD and audio instead of pure power. And then later in October when they talked about haptics instead of important stuff like VRS. Nobody is quiet when they are in a strong position.

 

[majestix1988]

I feel it's like this thread title somewhat misleading......we are just on deep dive not on reality dive...

 

[Ascend]

I don't think we can talk a 'slight' edge here. The PS5 is like an OC 5700, while the XSX is like a 2080S at least. Add in the fact that the XSX guarantees stable clocks while the PS5 does not, and the PS5 is a disaster waiting to happen. Who wants to have less performance in their games during summer compared to in the winter? I know I don't. That's not even mentioning how that makes it hard for developers to optimize the game. They're better off locking the clocks to something that is always sustainable even if it means lower TFLOPS.

The PS5 does have the advantage in I/O speeds. But I don't think it will really matter that much in practice.

 

[Achillias]

Lol Sony fanboys. Talking about 13-14 tflops looks silly now by some users.

 

[Jill Valentine]

I'm loving the drama. The usage of "peak" seems to have worked since people are now repeating the 10.2 figure, when really that could be anywhere between 9-10. I see the reported 9.2 figure so I would stick with that. Sony are in trouble, which is a good thing for their two horse race for the same audience. They need to be humbled a little after having it too easy for so long.

So for emphasis, you have a 9.2 vs 12 TF machine and we're now going to be told to ignore the difference because humans have egos to protect. I don't even know what a TF is. But it sounds good enough to choose to choose the machine with more of 'em. It's the bit wars all over again.

 

[Deeper Underground]

This is a total failure in every way.

It has a 9.2TF GPU which can be overclocked to 10.3.

It doesn't even list the amount of RAM.

It has a CPU frequency lower than the XBox Series X.

It's raytracing seems to be no better than what comes with RDNA.

Sony has launched a gimped console.

If it doesn't have multithreading, then it's even worse.

Holy shit are you ok? A gimped console? This is why nobody takes this site seriously anymore. Overreacting bullshit like this. Also, you missed the slide where it said 16GB GDDR6 RAM, but I’m sure you were so hyped to run on here and talk about 10.3 that you missed that.

 

[Arkage]

Anyone else not interested in 3D audio?

The audio stuff really is pointless unless you're one of those pro competitor types with headphones. Their focus on it is pretty dumb.

PS5 - $500
XBSX - $600

Those seem perfect to me. Don't see Sony pushing the $500 mark and if Microsoft push $600 its a big ask.

I can't see MS at 600. It'll be $500. Sony is the bigger question. They undoubtedly need to go cheaper with those lower specs but $400 seems too low with the current pricepoint of the Pro.

 

[Arun1910]

This is the huge sticking point for me.

I thought they weren't pushing VR anymore?

 

[Daffy Duck]

Console warriors watch will be interesting to see how the deficit is spun into a positive.

Quite the large gap, only games will actually show the difference but EG have been very clever with how they worded their article as they know things like this really get the people jumping and are careful to keep a lid on it right out the gate.

 

[longdi]

2.23ghz is just bullshit.
DF will tear PS5 frame time apart.

 

[tflopsmatter]

This is the huge sticking point for me.

Looking at the spec sheets you would think the Xbox is the one better equipped for VR but yet they have 0 support and no plans to have any.

The only way the SSD speeds can offset that for VR is if they lean hard on foveated rendering (they would need eye tracking) and push developers in that direction.

VR utilizes a ton of resources and a 9.2TF console that can sometimes reach 10.3 isn't going to be enough for any kind of leap. Apparently, Sony not only wants the PS5 to be a failure but wants their VR system to flop too.

 

[GymWolf]

Looks like companies do have a reason to not talk about their hardware when it's weaker. It was clear back in April last year when Cerny talked up SSD and audio instead of pure power. And then later in October when they talked about haptics instead of important stuff like VRS. Nobody is quiet when they are in a strong position.

 

[Azurro]

Thoroughly disappointed, the hardware was engineered to have one single outstanding feature and the rest they cheaped out on considerably. 10.3 TF available IF there are no other process intensive things happening on the CPU.

I mean, I'm still going to buy it, but it's so disappointing that it doesn't have competitive specifications. Games are going to perform noticeably better on Xbox, backwards compatibility is spotty and no enhancements for those. And again, who gives a shit about audio?!

 

[octiny]

Thread title should be updated to "Up to 10.2 TF".

 

[Armorian]

Again, who cares? Why be disappointed when Sony wants an affordable system? The thread is for arguing and discussion.

We don't know if it will be affordable, it can even cost close to XSX to manufacture given that they are packing in some crazy fast SSD in there, plus cooling for that crazy clocked GPU monstrosity will be complicated. They just fucked up the DESIGN, they use some clock gymnastics to reach that "10TF" speed and devs will have to be careful with their code to accidentally not downclock the console. This is fucking comedy While all you had to do is to take bigger solicon and put some reasonable clocks in it like MS.

I totally agree. Sony just handed the generation over to microsoft. Yes, there will be some good looking games on the PS5 but the system is no where close to a generational leap. I think games will look FAR better on the Xbox.

If devs focus power diifference in resolution then with some DLSS like techniques differences could be hard to spot BUT if they focus on performance (and leave resolution the same or close to) every game will have better framerate (and with VRR that could make big difference in games running between 30 and 60).

 

[Hotspurr]

Not sure why people are trying to be defensive. As a gamer do you want an inexpensive console that's gimped in performance or do you want to experience the best tech possible for your hobby.

Business wise Sony may still have the edge if the console is around $400 and they got lots of exclusives coming.

As a gamer I am more excited about the Series X, as Microsoft is really pushing tech forward, and the Xbox One X runs quite cool so their engineering team is top notch.

At the end of the day, when eithrr these consoles drop you'll likely only be able to outclass them with with a $1k+ custom built PC. The difference won't be large but may be noticeable in terms of noise level and ability to hit constant 60 fps at 4k.

Personally I'm hanging on to my Xbox one X and seeing how raytracing pans out on PCs. I'm tired of having to pay for online and PC has better deals on various cd key sites (legit ones). Also I don't feel like buying new fight sticks and such.

 

[Dane]

So is @x

No. How are you not understanding what I am saying? I don't believe that 2 SKUs indicates a Pro version in 2-3 yrs. The PS5 now is probably the "Pro" version and the lower end SKU hasn't been announced yet.

Is this the Pro? Because the standard clock tflop would likely sit on 9.2 indeed, so there's still the Pro SKU I suppose.

 

[GHG]

I thought they weren't pushing VR anymore?

It was mentioned in today's presentation, I'm sure it will be a big thing for them going forwards.

Considering the SSD speeds (which are hugely beneficial for foveated rendering) and the big talk on 3D audio it would actually make sense that it will be a core focus of their going forwards.

It would be a mistake because we've seen time and time again how focusing on a peripheral turns out.

 

[darkinstinct]

No. How are you not understanding what I am saying? I don't believe that 2 SKUs indicates a Pro version in 2-3 yrs. The PS5 now is probably the "Pro" version and the lower end SKU hasn't been announced yet.

I think there's also a chance that the Pro is indeed around 12 TF, but it won't arrive in the next few years. Because there is no way that Sony can put one of their 5.5 GB/s SSDs in a cheaper SKU, which they would need to do.

 

[Jimmyisback]

Xbox wins he power on paper but will lose the price war. 10.28 VS 12.1 means nothing . It's just a talking point. There may be like 5-10 frame difference. Both consoles are a huge leap over last gen .

Xbox won the power game. This is the definitive statement to make for the next 7 years.

 

[Codes 208]

I don't understand any of this nerdy stuff.

Ps5 is perfect cell, xsx is ssj2 gohan

 

[Journey]

Are some of you really having meltdowns over a 1.7 tf difference? I doubt you know what a tf does even... (me neither)

I thought we weren't measuring just by the TF number? what about the difference in memory bandwidth? also the fact that the 10TF number is with the boost clock, which doesn't indicate how many cores are activate during full boost. MS emphasized how ALL their cores remain active since they're not using a boost clock, but a consistant 12TF performance at ALL TIMES.

 

[Entroyp]

I totally agree. Sony just handed the generation over to microsoft. Yes, there will be some good looking games on the PS5 but the system is no where close to a generational leap. I think games will look FAR better on the Xbox.

I’m not sure about that. The most powerful console almost never wins the generation.

Having said that...I’m not taking anything away from MS, XsX will be next gen’s PS4 in terms of how good the console design is. I’m excited to get my hands on both.

 

[Saber]

Only 10.2 Tflops? Oh the humanity, now where I'm gonna play Persona 6!? Surely with Xbox's superior powers it gonna magically going to get those games....right?

All I see so far is specs crap wars and people trolling/insulting others over this stupid talk as if they won a war.

All I wanted was to see some games and design and I got nothing

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Xbox won the power game. This is the definitive statement to make for the next 7 years.

Remember the last time Xbox definitively won the power game?

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

So how often will the power actually be at 10.3 TF? Is there a way this can be tested by DF once the consoles hit ?

 

[tryDEATH]

This was MS clearly flexing and demolished Sony for the embarrassment that MS had to take this generation before Phil took over.

There is a significant CPU/GPU power disparity between the consoles probably close to 25% in certain games, which is mind blowing. PS should have taken a knee this year and release next year when parts would have been cheaper and more powerful as they still have games that are coming out this year so it wasn't as necessary to release as it was for Xbox.

This is a huge L for Sony's fanboys and all those pretend fake "insiders" that so many believed.

 

[Fulcizombie]

Now see MS clock extra 50 MHz. Before launch , would be hilarious.

MS tackled it in the right way, change form factor, amazing.

Nah they don’t need to. MS basically created a dream console which people undermined because of the 13+ TF imaginery ps5 that was coming. What MS has achieved , in terms of power, is unprecedented.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So how often will the power actually be at 10.3 TF? Is there a way this can be tested by DF once the consoles hit ?

I'm curious as to what you would do with this knowledge.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Sony sonyyyy sonyyyy cats hoooooooooooo (Lionel voice)

We must transform Comrades and get tht variable rate to its highest peak

 

[Sacred]

You need to understand that PS4 10TF are not the same as XSX 12TF. They clock higher with less CUs which means more power. MS would have to get around 20TF to match what they are doing with PS5.

So we are just going to live in fairytale land now?

 

[KlickKlack]

This is a total failure in every way.

It has a 9.2TF GPU which can be overclocked to 10.3.

It doesn't even list the amount of RAM.

It has a CPU frequency lower than the XBox Series X.

It's raytracing seems to be no better than what comes with RDNA.

Sony has launched a gimped console.

If it doesn't have multithreading, then it's even worse.

and only 100 top games will be Backward compatible...

what a disaster

 

[Xyphie]

No doubt Digital Foundry or someone else will hook up oscilloscopes to the console and figure out what a typical load frequency is.

It's funny how people think this is some gimped system though. It'll land around a RX 5700 XT or RTX 2070 in performance. RX 5700 XT is currently the fastest GPU AMD has on offer and the fastest GPU you can buy from nVidia is like ~50-60% faster. When the PS4 launched back in 2013 we already had GPUs with more than 3x the performance it had.

 

[Geki-D]

No. How are you not understanding what I am saying? I don't believe that 2 SKUs indicates a Pro version in 2-3 yrs. The PS5 now is probably the "Pro" version and the lower end SKU hasn't been announced yet.

Okay, so you're saying this one, being the "Pro" is, as you said going to cost 600? And the yet to be announced "Base" is going to be 9TF, like you said? So not far off from the "Pro"?

Sorry, I'm having trouble understanding. The strong smell of BS coming off of your old claims and your terrible attempts to backtrack is really making it hard for me to concentrate.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

So here’s where my head is at right now:

would you rather have 4k/60/ultra (XsX version of a game) vs. 4k/30/ultra or 4k/60/medium/high (PS5 version of game)

there’s definitely going to be pretty noticeable different between multiplat games right?

 

[Journey]

It's just hardware, software is all that matters.

Sony has the weaker machine. Who cares? Let's just enjoy our systems and be happy.

So we should expect Knack 2 to be amazing? I mean he was talking about the lord an savior hardware wizard: Mark Cerny

Jokes aside, Mark became a meme after killing it with the PS4 architecture. I'm wondering where he's going to stand now that MS engineers killed it. It's fair to talk about the hardware right now, no need to pivot and talk about games, we know the PS5 will have a great line-up, but so will XSX with its 16 1st party studios and possibly the best version for all multiplatform games.

 

[AGRacing]

None of this would have mattered if they blew us away with a game....

Also clearly Microsoft knew this was happening prior... that’s why they made such a big deal about sustained locked clocks to the digital foundry guys.

 

[SaltyMcSalt]

If MS announces a 299 Dollar Series S tomorrow, that would be fun.

 

[Senua]

 

[GymWolf]

the only good things about this shitshow called ps5 is that multy games are gonna be created around the weaker hardware and my 2070super is already better than a ps5.

 

[Deeper Underground]

I totally agree. Sony just handed the generation over to microsoft. Yes, there will be some good looking games on the PS5 but the system is no where close to a generational leap. I think games will look FAR better on the Xbox.

LOL JFC. If you honestly believe this, you are truly a fool.

 

[Tripolygon]

But it's on the CU's, not a separate RT core like NVIDIA?

Those Nvidia diagrams showing RT core separate from other GPU blocks are diagrams for illustrative purposes. They are all together.

 

[sunnysideup]

Underpowered and No exclusives.


They dun goofed

 

[alucard0712_rus]

So its all about price now.
Imagine both PS5 and SEX will be $400.

 

[Bogey]

Fairly disappointing, but that was to be expected at this point.

Variable frequency indeed suggests to me this was some last minute emergency move to narrow the gap to MS - at least on paper for marketing purposes.

 

[DryvBy]

Sony: 36CU @ 2.23GHz
MS: 52CU @ 1.825 GHz

There's your difference and why TFlops don't paint the full picture.

 

[Danjin44]

All I see so far is specs crap wars and people trolling/insulting others over this stupid talk as if they won a war.

All I wanted was to see some games and design and I got nothing

Its okay, staring at Flops is waaay more fun, surely that what gaming system are made for.

 

[Vol5]

Although I'm somewhat disappointed about the specs, Sony clearly have $399 in mind. It's also incredibly daft to talk about the HDD for half and hour and not demo how it could elevate the game.

 

[Old Empire.]

I slightly disappointed with the PS5 specs, when it means the third party will have to compromise for the PS5 performance!

For 399 dollars, the specs are great. 499 dollars Sony will receive backlash.

Sony games look great at 4 teraflops (the pro)- 9 or 10 with new hardware visuals be popping on screen,

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

So its all about price now.
Imagine both PS5 and SEX will be $400.

How on Earth could the XsX sell for 399 tho? That would be a huge loss?