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[elcapitano]

That spec sheet was not bad too many people were being unrealistic in their expectations.

Bad in comparison it is. So therefore needs a very large price disparity to make up for it.

I was expecting maybe a TF less not boost mode. To be 2 TF less and that's best case scenario you have to admit is very poor from Sony.

And I'm most likely not going to go buy an Xbox as I don't really like there games. The question for me is can I stomach paying such a high price for a console that I feel is underpowered versus what was clearly achievable.

Right now I think I'll wait for a price drop, and I have never not bought a PS console day one.

Depending in XBox games maybe I buy that first, who knows.

From PC I have always values FPS and Res so I'm just not ecstatic that the PS5 is what I would call not great.

SSD sounded great though. Shane they didn't get a bit more power in it.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

You’ll not get your apology because all insiders disappeared suddenly.

I’m still here, despite being in bloody agony and sweating like Cerny in a clock shop.

 

[44alltheway]

Actually all I wanna do is gloating. My damn mobile made me banned on the other place today, so I have to do it here ....

Spoiler

Pushed on Sent by accident, wanted to add the spoiler but was distracted by my job, just did that and boom a ban LOL

gg

 

[Gamernyc78]

He does and he does. I know him personally! That's why I laugh my ass off when I see him trashed here. Again. A fanboy is he? Of course! But he has first had talks with real high ups on team Xbox. I know this as a fact! I've seen it!

Lol of course you have and would say this. You are cut from the same cloth

 

[M1chl]

Really curious

In that case, how come they support normal SSD PCie 4, if it's so custom?

 

[elcapitano]

The Xbox One reveal was bad because Microsoft focused on anything, but games. Even with all of that technical jargon, Cerny did talk about ease of game development like the <1 month time to triangle.

Not talking about reveal. Just console versus console. I don't care that Xbox is better. In fact it's good cause for me it shows Sony dropped the ball which is annoying as my favourite games are Sony games for the most part.

 

[demigod]

I’m just glad you haven’t put me on ignore like all the other s fans. Feels good bro.


Yes it has started but XSX talk is within the next few hours.

Nah I don't put people on ignore.

I will take the L since I thought Sony would take the crown.

 

[pasterpl]

If you care about leading techs, visuals, vrs, low input lag, ray tracing you should go with xbsex, for faster load times and the tempest sound go ps5, simple

 

[DrDamn]

People under estimating that SSD imo.

Yes, the emphasis on the whole pipeline in the talk was impressive. WWS at least will be doing very clever things with it I think.

 

[01011001]

In that case, how come they support normal SSD PCie 4, if it's so custom?

this is what I'm thinking.

also, they should have gone the way Microsoft went with a sleek memory card like design that slots in in the back

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Not talking about reveal. Just console versus console. I don't care that Xbox is better. In fact it's good cause for me it shows Sony dropped the ball which is annoying as my favourite games are Sony games for the most part.

How do you know Sony has dropped the ball when we haven't seen any game footage of a PS5 game? Sony would have dropped the ball if, for instance, several developers complain about various bottlenecks and how the XSX has none.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Good point. But there's something else going on here as well. The Github leak for MS showed 56 CU's with only 52 active I believe, which is what people tend to expect- CU's being disabled is standard practice for chip yield reasons. But the MS RELEASE shows 52CU's as the FULL CU'S on the chip! Same for Sony..Github showed 36 active CU's and people assumed that meant at least 40 CU's on chip with 4 disabled.

So has AMD solved yield issues to the extent that manufacturers can have no "wasted" silicon in the form of disabled CU's? If so, that's pretty HUGE, isn't it? Again, unless my recall is failing me here. That could mean BIG things for manufacturers in the future.

I'm still wondering what MS split memory pool with a good chuck of "slow" memory will mean for the overall performance of the box. Again, I think that's one reason that "sources" all felt the two would have similar TF numbers. Real world performance MAY WELL IN FACT BE almost indistinguishable between them. Depending on these factors.

Bottom line, we need to see the games. But I'm confident we will all be happy with either system overall. I just think Sony went for smaller form factor as well as a different philosophy to get performance. Also expect they were continuing to target the $399 area where MS will likely have to be at at least $499 unless they take a large loss per unit. We'll see!

Did it show the chip at 52? I thought it was 52 active, 56 total? Also some people were mentioning a while back that Scorpio's GPU was tested with all CUs on in devkit phase but 4 got deactivated for retail unit. If that's true then I assume they did the same thing with XSX.

But to the greater point tho, it does kinda seem like the yield issues have improved. Clock issues DEFINITELY have, 2.23 GHz just would not be possible on RDNA1 unless you slapped an air conditioner on that thing. And indeed there is something among the XSX memory setup we have to see play out because that partitioning is "interesting", and it's possible PS5 might not have that partitioning setup, i.e they could have 2GB or 4GB of DDR4 for the OS, and all 16GB GDDR6 at a set speed (either 448 GB/s or 512 GB/s) for games that devs can dynamically allocate to whatever logic, graphics, physics etc. tasks they want.

I mean, the SSD rumor turned out to be true, so maybe there is more to the PS5 memory setup than meets the eye. But for sure I think we can pretty much nail that down to 16 GB GDDR6 + (maybe) 2-4 GB DDR4.

 

[M1chl]

this is what I'm thinking.

also, they should have gone the way Microsoft went with a sleek memory card like design that slots in in the back

Well, to be honest custom cards probably going to be more expensive, so it's not that good... Aside from that, PS5 might have more slots, for more storage.

 

[gamechanger87]

In that case, how come they support normal SSD PCie 4, if it's so custom?

They only support ones that they certify hit their required speeds.

There are currently zero of them.

 

[CrustyBritches]

This probably why MS was hammering on Path Tracing/Ray tracing and gave the "25TFLOPs(13TF RT)" example. Some people were complaining about showing Minecraft(impressively Path traced) and Gears 5, but at least they showed games, the actual console, and have a solid BC and SSD upgrade plan in place. PS5 has an awesome SSD and good hardware, but a lot that presentation was half-baked.

 

[M1chl]

They only support ones that they certify hit their required speeds.

There are currently zero of them.

Yes, but do you expect that Sony going to patent some custom chip to other manufactuers or what? Because they have zero chance againts giants like Samsung.

 

[K.N.W.]

Why people talk about marketing and PR if this was a panel mostly aimed at developers??? Is everything all right???

 

[Handy Fake]

Yes, but do you expect that Sony going to patent some custom chip to other manufactuers or what? Because they have zero chance againts giants like Samsung.

Cerny did mention that if their solution appears on future AMD PC cards then they'll know they've done well.

 

[AudioSlave92210]

From day one to wait & see

 

[KingT731]

error

 

[Shi11]

Someone needs to Photoshop this crashing

 

[Hatsuma]

Yeesh, Osiris you were very off eh...

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

I am so impressed by the speed/efficiency PS5 has and SONY never disappointed me since PS1 always they deliver with performance, efficiency, price. I believe it will deliver a good price point! I will definitely be getting PS5 on day one! XSX will have to wait untill black friday with more games to come. can't buy console that doesn't have exclusives I am looking forward to just yet. but XSX it has to wait 2021-22 Black friday

This.

 

[M1chl]

Cerny did mention that if their solution appears on future AMD PC cards then they'll know they've done well.

So they might be licencing their technology then. Or Sony planning some other markets? I mean for controllers, memories are going to be from big manufactuers, it's not necessary to do that yourself.

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

error

Phew, had me worried there for a second.

 

[Handy Fake]

So they might be licencing their technology then. Or Sony planning some other markets? I mean for controllers, memories are going to be from big manufactuers, it's not necessary to do that yourself.

I'm honestly not sure chief, it was hard to glean from what was essentially a very vague overview of the tech.
Quite frankly I'm really, really interested in how it's all going to work together - he may be being slated for a perceived lack of raw power but Cerny certainly knows his shit.

 

[DaGwaphics]

error

VRR & VRS aren't the same tech.

 

[elcapitano]

How do you know Sony has dropped the ball when we haven't seen any game footage of a PS5 game? Sony would have dropped the ball if, for instance, several developers complain about various bottlenecks and how the XSX has none.

Well we know it's vastly underpowered compared to the Xbox. Sony might not value that and that is fine.

But for me it's a ball dropped. It's kind of like on a PC comparing GPUs. No one can deny a GTX 2070 is good and will play games at great FPS and with great textures etc.

But that's doesn't change the fact a GTX 2080 will play them at either higher frames and quality etc.

I value those frames and Pictures quality so for me being 16% less powerful is major.

You make good points in the bottleneck though but we are only working we current infor. We cannot know if Ps5 or XSX will have problems developing for.

With current info it is safe to assume Devs will be able to get more out of the XBox.

For me a big difference in spec so a huge difference in price is needed.

 

[Joey.]

That was on dreadful presentation considering all things.
It may have flew if they've released more information in the past...but to just show that?
Slap in the face.

PS5 is guaranteed great exclusives...….XBOX the heavyweight this generation but no guarantee on exclusives but very hopeful with new studio acquisitions.
I think GamePass is going to convince me or big price differences and definitely need more info on games/exclusives.

I'll make my decision holiday 2020 I guess....

 

[CasperDarling]

Also a big LOL to everyone that defended Matt from Era. Dude has always been a fraud even going back to his GAF days.

 

[Reindeer]

Listening to Foxy Games: You don't know how it works, Series X has far more bottlenecks, narrower bandwidth.

The Damage Control is hilarious.

 

[Zero707]

Someone needs to Photoshop this crashing

Someone put XSX Tower in the front of it

 

[CrustyBritches]

Today's Game Stack schedule:

Linky

 

[hemo memo]

Multiplats aren't determinant of console success. Exclusives are. Wii, Switch, and PS4 stand as proof of that. The most powerful console is usually not the one that wins the console generation.

If PS5 exclusives accomplish things that XSX exclusives simply cannot because of the dramatically faster SSD, then that will matter far more than slightly better looking multiplats.

We know of 2 PlayStation exclusives coming to PC. One is coming out on PC 3 years after its release, the other was planned to be on PC a long time ago. We can't assume PS5 exclusives are launching on PC too (even though I'd love if that were the case).

The average consumer who buys FIFA and Cod is what matter. They buy the console for the services and for the better console to play 3rd party games.

Wii won the gen not because of exclusives
Switch is selling like cake not because of exclusives but because Nintendo created their own market and didn’t compete directly. WiiU with the best exclusives of gen failed miserably.

It’s not the SNES days. It’s not about exclusives only. It’s about the best place to play the games and Xbox offering is very interesting with Gamepass and a powerful console and big investment in studios and great technical features like quick/resume that Sony failed to show in a TECHNICAL 1 hour talk.

Sony dropped the ball from the marketing to the hardware specs. FOR THE PLAYERS yet Microsoft first revealed the console in a player focused event and Sony first talk about the console is a boring talk with fake audiences.

Yes I’m a big Sony fan and I’m pissed.

 

[xacto]

That spec sheet was not bad too many people were being unrealistic in their expectations.

And still, a lot of what was said in the presentation flew above the heads of the "TF matter" crowd.

 

[OmegaSpear]

I feel disappointed with the showing. I expected to see the console and what it meant for the games.

PS5 vs XSX is all about speed vs power, I get that.

 

[IntentionalPun]

So is every insider here full of shit or what?

I think it will be a fine system but the > 12 TF stuff was so rampant here.

 

[kyliethicc]

error

VRR isn’t VRS. Variable rate shading is different than Variable Refresh Rate, that’s a display/TV feature. VRS is a game shading technique.

 

[Nickolaidas]

That blue nugroho guy must be dancing all over his bedroom right now.

 

[icerock]

Did it show the chip at 52? I thought it was 52 active, 56 total? Also some people were mentioning a while back that Scorpio's GPU was tested with all CUs on in devkit phase but 4 got deactivated for retail unit. If that's true then I assume they did the same thing with XSX.

But to the greater point tho, it does kinda seem like the yield issues have improved. Clock issues DEFINITELY have, 2.23 GHz just would not be possible on RDNA1 unless you slapped an air conditioner on that thing. And indeed there is something among the XSX memory setup we have to see play out because that partitioning is "interesting", and it's possible PS5 might not have that partitioning setup, i.e they could have 2GB or 4GB of DDR4 for the OS, and all 16GB GDDR6 at a set speed (either 448 GB/s or 512 GB/s) for games that devs can dynamically allocate to whatever logic, graphics, physics etc. tasks they want.

I mean, the SSD rumor turned out to be true, so maybe there is more to the PS5 memory setup than meets the eye. But for sure I think we can pretty much nail that down to 16 GB GDDR6 + (maybe) 2-4 GB DDR4.

I don't know man, memory setup doesn't fill me with confidence either, given how quickly it was glossed over. Series X setup is weird, and there are some legit concerns about the 'faster' memory reserved for GPU tasks but if Sony had a leg up on it, wouldn't they mention it?

SSD can help mitigate certain memory related tasks, but there is one trouble it shall always have i.e. latency. What sort of customization do they have on their SSD for these tasks? They didn't dwelve into either. I dearly hope for the 'full tear-down' they invite DF, only they are competent enough to identify these talking points. Also, I need some clarification on base clocks, even if they are to the tune of 'few percentages', I need to know.

 

[Zero707]

 

[GermanZepp]

How is the new xbox so much better? Is it going to cost $100+ more?

If PS5 isn't priced $100 lower Sony will look cheap af

Man glad you are back. What a hell happened to you.

 

[TheAmazingSpiderMan]

LOL Sony has really dropped the ball with everything this time around, it makes sense why they were so quiet and hesitant to talk about their console, the 2.23 GPU speed is a dead giveaway that they upped the clock speeds to get over to double digits. We can't compare RDNA and Vega flops but even the Google Stadia has a slight edge on numbers compared to PS5, 10.7>10.3

The mass exit of Sony employees makes sense now,

SSD speeds are ridiculously fast which is good but 3rd parties won't make use of this to it's potential not in the first few years anyway, and Sony seem to come last in every other department, we really thought after all the money and fans they gained this gen the budget or the aim to release a more powerful console would make sense but it looks like they
want to stick to a $399 which is doubt with that SSD.

Not all games are 100% confirmed compatible as they need to be tested individually..

an 825 SSD???

Github was right in a way about the 9.2TF, they've clocked it a little higher to hit that 10.3.

We really thought "hmm why would sony who used 36CU's in the pro back in 2017 use the same number of CU'S for PS5 3 years later, that wouldn't make no sense" LOL.

Yes I know these CU's are bigger, MS is using the same architecture if they wanted to push it like PS5 is with clock speed's they would probably be able to get to 14TF if they wanted.

No GDDR5 moment like PS4 reveal.

the only thing going forward I can take from all our speculation threads going forward is insiders don't know shit all lol.

 

[geordiemp]

If you care about leading techs, visuals, vrs, low input lag, ray tracing you should go with xbsex, for faster load times and the tempest sound go ps5, simple

We have not seen pricing yet, lets wait and see how much stuff costs.

What is Ps5 is 499 and Series X is 799 , I do not hink this will be cheap at all.

If series X is 499 and ps5 399, sony cheaped out and fucked up design probbaly due to some suit accountant.

 

[gamechanger87]

Yes, but do you expect that Sony going to patent some custom chip to other manufactuers or what? Because they have zero chance againts giants like Samsung.

When you make a proprietary you cut an agreement with the manufacturer to make them. Thus they will make them for you even if there are limited other real world uses for it.

Sony is essentially saying buy these in the open market, but no manufacturer will be making these cards for the general public because the speed/cost will be too high.

They should have gone proprietary to ensure supply.

 

[elcapitano]

Only way I'm buying that PS5 day one is if it's 100 quid or more cheaper.

Then the specs make sense. If not I'll wait.

 

[Chromata]

Why people talk about marketing and PR if this was a panel mostly aimed at developers??? Is everything all right???

Because every small piece of PS5 news was catching a lot of attention and Sony advertised this talk on their social media. Most people tuning in were not developers and Sony shouldn't have expected otherwise.

Even though some people (like me) enjoyed the presentation, a large chunk of the audience expected a grand reveal.

This was a really bad move on Sony's part.

 

[geordiemp]

How is the new xbox so much better? Is it going to cost $100+ more?

If PS5 isn't priced $100 lower Sony will look cheap af

Yup, we dont know how much these new AMD RDNA2 7nm chips with a bit of EUV will cost....

everyone thinks cheap, we could all be in for a nasty surprice.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

The average consumer who buys FIFA and Cod is what matter. They buy the console for the services and for the better console to play 3rd party games.

Wii won the gen not because of exclusives
Switch is selling like cake not because of exclusives but because Nintendo created their own market and didn’t compete directly. WiiU with the best exclusives of gen failed miserably.

It’s not the SNES days. It’s not about exclusives only. It’s about the best place to play the games and Xbox offering is very interesting with Gamepass and a powerful console and big investment in studios and great technical features like quick/resume that Sony failed to show in a TECHNICAL 1 hour talk.

Sony dropped the ball from the marketing to the hardware specs. FOR THE PLAYERS yet Microsoft first revealed the console in a player focused event and Sony first talk about the console is a boring talk with fake audiences.

Yes I’m a big Sony fan and I’m pissed.

This is what annoys me as a Sony customer.

They know the world is starved for info on PS5, they know gamers want more so even with this GDC presentation being technical to industry insiders, they KNOW all eyes are watching. They should've had an event before this for the gamers and consumers. Instead, they first speak to the techies and are letting that drive the introduction to the PS5. That is just a horrible method of introducing your console.

 

[Zero707]

so it's fake 10TF Lmao
Put some respect on GitHub