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[Physiognomonics]

You can direct get assets from SSD to GPU processing without need load into the RAM.
Besides that it is a new thing so devs have to discover how useful it will be.

I’m very excited to see how devs can envolve the game with these new tools.

No you can't. It's from SSD to ram without CPU processing.

 

[vdopey]

How is Sony shit at marketing if they have such a commanding lead? They’ve done several things that have benefited such as getting sponsorship of Champions League in Europe, actually devoting more marketing dollars to Europe in general, did better advertising of their tentpole titles, managed to get the marketing rights for Call of Duty away from MS, etc. I’d say they’ve done well. People are just saying they suck because they watched a technical dive meant for developers and assumed it was supposed to be like E3 with games and what not.

Around the PS4 and late PS3 era their marketing was outstanding, remember the pew pew guy ? I cant remember his name but I mean thats still in my head, it was funny and good, but take their phones, their tvs practically all of their divisions they come up with amazing tech and absolutely blunder the marketing. Right now word of mouth is their marketing tool there are a lot of loyal PS owners, I am one of them that give them the benefit of the doubt and carry a good word about their products, but so far how good has their PS5 marketing been ? Its going to be released in probably less than 8 months - maybe I am being too cynical - have you seen some of their abysmal phone adverts ? The wow of now ugh...

 

[kyliethicc]

Imagine warkawk remastered or redone at 120fps mp

Warhawk was so awesome, underrated game

 

[Darius87]

Bolded fixed your percentages and added some perspective compared to last gen. People needs to know that those machines were never this close in power and they are trading blows in different areas.

i don't understand how you counted bandwidth? doesn't xsex have 560 + 335 in total 895gb/s vs 448gb/s for ps5 which would give 50% more for xsex.
aslo don't understand why ssd is 65% faster for ps5?
RT is 7.6grays/s for ps5 and 9grays/s for xsex
my formula for counting for example 100 - (7.6 * 100 / 9) = 15.6%

 

[Lampiao]

It was a presentation disaster, nutty and poorly conducted. It looked like something done by a company that has never been on the market before.

 

[mitchman]

Wrong. Star Citizen was built for SSDs, DF already did a video on this. The difference between fast and slow SSDs is negligible.

Really? The difference between a SATA SSD at 500MB/s vs a PCIe 4.0 6GB/s is negligible? Are you drunk?

 

[Aceofspades]

i don't understand how you counted bandwidth? doesn't xsex have 560 + 335 in total 895gb/s vs 448gb/s for ps5 which would give 50% more for xsex.
aslo don't understand why ssd is 65% faster for ps5?
RT is 7.6grays/s for ps5 and 9grays/s for xsex
my formula for counting for example 100 - (7.6 * 100 / 9) = 15.6%

XsX ram is not 560+335. Its 10G running at 560 and the remaining 6 running at 335.

As for RT , we don't know how CUs and clocks affects RT performance.

Also Audio chip for PS5 seems like a one powerful silicon, it might end up freeing resources from CPU/GPU . Yet to be seen how XsX compare there.

Edit : as for SSD:

PS5 can handle 5.5Gb/s of uncompressed data vs only 2.8Gb for XsX (double that for compressed) actually PS5 handle uncompressed data faster than XsX handle compressed data!!!

 

[kyliethicc]

I find it interesting Microsoft keeps saying they’re targeting 4k60. But Sony haven’t said anything. Considering all their devs developed checker boarding and up res techniques for PS4 Pro, dynamic resolutions etc. I bet Sony is gonna let devs use any resolution / checker boarding up res etc they want for PS5 as well. I suspect we won’t see many Sony 1st party games running at 4k native, instead they’ll use the new power they’ve got to run games at 1440p or 1800p or checkerboard 4k and focus on adding detail to the art/worlds, or whatever else they can use the GPU for at sub 4K res. Maybe RT?

 

[Captain Hero]

Everyone will be shocked when games come out on PS5 .. they really run after the teraflops and forgot what PS5 can do ..

 

[Cobbet]

It was a presentation disaster, nutty and poorly conducted. It looked like something done by a company that has never been on the market before.

I agree. It would have been much better infront of live devs and a Q and A session after. Too bad the corona virus came along. Ms have handled this in a much better way imho.

 

[Aceofspades]

Everyone will be shocked when games come out on PS5 .. they really run after the teraflops and forgot what PS5 can do ..

GPU difference is minuscule compared to last gen, people will be shocked when PS5 SSD was utilized to the fullest, I expect GTA6 to take full use of it.

 

[pawel86ck]

Something tells me PS4 BC will only run games at their original speed and resolution. If that's the case I would rather want PS5 with more CUs (without 36 CUs limit for BC reasons). Cant sony build software emulation like MS?

 

[ethomaz]

as for now stands:
cpu is 2.8 % faster in xsex
gpu is 15% better in xsex
ram size are the same but bandwidth is 50% higher for xsex(which is crazy)
ssd is 56.4% faster for ps5(this is also crazy)
ray tracing is 15.6% better in xsex

clearly these machines should seperate 100$ if not i think sony is in big trouble unless they have some crazy exclussives anyway i'm still buying ps5 because of exclussives. but yea looks like sony cheapen out for ps5 and lost power advantage on paper, though real performance is unknown? my only hope for ps5 that it will not look like a mini fridge and doesn't exceed 450$.

RAM bandwidth is 25% more... 560GB/s vs 448GB/s and that only apply to 10GB of RAM on Xbox... the other 6GB runs slower than PS5 (33% more bandwidth for PS5).

 

[ethomaz]

No you can't. It's from SSD to ram without CPU processing.

You can.
A dev already said you can get it direct without need to load on RAM.

RAM can stay just for GPU calculations that why some people are saying maybe you have free RAM for GPU.

 

[Insane Metal]

My bet is $299 but its coming.

I bet it's *NOT* a 4TF machine. More like 6TF.

 

[ethomaz]

XsX ram is not 560+335. Its 10G running at 560 and the remaining 6 running at 335.

As for RT , we don't know how CUs and clocks affects RT performance.

Also Audio chip for PS5 seems like a one powerful silicon, it might end up freeing resources from CPU/GPU . Yet to be seen how XsX compare there.

Edit : as for SSD:

PS5 can handle 5.5Gb/s of uncompressed data vs only 2.8Gb for XsX (double that for compressed) actually PS5 handle uncompressed data faster than XsX handle compressed data!!!

No lol

It is only one bus.. It is not combined lol

PS5 handle compressed data around 9GB/s from SSD.

 

[Evilms]

 

[ethomaz]

i don't understand how you counted bandwidth? doesn't xsex have 560 + 335 in total 895gb/s vs 448gb/s for ps5 which would give 50% more for xsex.
aslo don't understand why ssd is 65% faster for ps5?
RT is 7.6grays/s for ps5 and 9grays/s for xsex
my formula for counting for example 100 - (7.6 * 100 / 9) = 15.6%

Xbox has one bus of 560GB/s but due the density of some memory modules the late 1GB of the 2GB modules can only be accessed at 336GB/s.

It is the same bus... not a combination... you can’t access both at the same time... it is one or another... it just that the half of the 2GB modules can’t be accessed at full speed.

So 10GB accessed at 560GB/s and 6GB accessed at 336GB/s.

While the overall speed is superior the memory pool setup is inferior to PS5.

 

[Aceofspades]

No lol

It is only one bus.. It is not combined lol

PS5 handle compressed data around 9GB/s from SSD.

That what I said, PS5 process 5.5Gb/s of Uncompressed data and double that for compressed

Xbox is 2.8Gb/s uncompressed and 4.8 compressed.

 

[pasterpl]

like cell was supposed to be.
...

No chip in years has caused as much excitement as the Cell processor developed by IBM, Sony and Toshiba. It promises to be the most important microprocessor of the decade, with potentially enormous repercussions for how the industry computes, and how the rest of us use digital media. It will power the PlayStation 3 and technical and commercial computing.

IBM, Sony and Toshiba announced the much-anticipated Cell microprocessor, containing a multicore, multithreaded gaming engine described as "a supercomputer on a chip."

Cell is expected to be the chip used in Sony's PlayStation 3 gaming console, and its performance should reach 10 times the capability of current PC processors

 

[saintjules]

It was a presentation disaster, nutty and poorly conducted. It looked like something done by a company that has never been on the market before.

I saw the presentation a whole different way



In all seriousness, I think this presentation was a plan B of attack. If Microsoft reveals specs, reveal this. Just to keep on the defense in some way.

 

[ethomaz]

like cell was supposed to be.
...

The Cell was pretty good and the reason PS3 could reach what it reached in games.

But sadly it was way expensive (critical if you think about a game console) and IBM stopped the shrinking it.

 

[Mr Moose]

That what I said, PS5 process 5.5Gb/s of Uncompressed data and double that for compressed

Xbox is 2.8Gb/s uncompressed and 4.8 compressed.

2.4GB/s.

 

[ethomaz]

It was a presentation disaster, nutty and poorly conducted. It looked like something done by a company that has never been on the market before.

I loved the presentation.

 

[Aceofspades]

like cell was supposed to be.
...

Cell was fantastic, it was just a major bitch to code for. And to this day it has features that lots of modern CPUs dream for.

Let's not derail the thread

 

[Fake]

like cell was supposed to be.
...

Head here for PS3 vs 360 power arguments to avoid derailing this thread

 

[ethomaz]

Cell was fantastic, it was just a major bitch to code for. And to this day it has features that lots of modern CPUs dream for.

Let's not derail the thread

Yeap it was great.
I believe it high costs was even worst than the complex code.

 

[Dargor]

Well, time will tell. For now the only games I see taking advantage of whatever the ps5 is supposedly capable of are exclusives and thats just 1% of all the games it'll get. If they are so transcendental as some are claiming they'll be, I'm sure gamers will love the PS5 as they loved the PS4.

For multiplats though, I sincerely doubt it'll make a difference how revolutionary the ps5 is, they simply wont make a game that wont work the same way across the spectrum.

 

[Aceofspades]

Yeap it was great.
I believe it high costs was even worst than the complex code.

Little fun fact, do you know that most 3rd party games only used PPC core of the cell and ignored the 6 SPUs? Thats why multiplat struggled early on PS3

Sorry Fake that would be last derailment

 

[TLZ]

Hi guys. Anything new?

 

[Dargor]

Hi guys. Anything new?

Just FUD and confusion.

 

[Rudius]

It will be interesting to see how everything pans out, it was kind of disappointing to see that it only topped out at 10.28TF, but overall it still isn't bad.


I kind of want to see a full breakdown of both systems including all the custom co-processors, etc. because I am wondering if maybe the PS5 has more custom co-processors to handle certain tasks (3D audio, custom Kraken compression engine, etc.) where the XSX will have to shuttle those tasks to the CPU or GPU. Worst case scenario we will just see 1440p checkerboard rendered to 4K on PS5 versus native 4K on XSX, which personally I am fine with.

That worst case scenario (1440p VS 4K) would require more than 20 teraflops on X to materialize. People don't realize how demanding higher resolutions are.

 

[Evilms]

 

[POak]

I don't know where everybody is getting the 399$ price point from, and the same could be said about the value I'm about to throw out there, but I think the PS5 is going to be sold either at 439$ or 450$, no less than these.

Xbox will be 499$, they can definitely take the hit due to their awesome online service and offering.

 

[Cobbet]

Hi guys. Anything new?

Well. I've heard that PS5 is quiet so the cooling seems to work as intended.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Not at the launch. They're creating a list of the most played games to prioritize the BC method.

And some people hoped it was total BC over all generations... o boi, such magic.

 

[PaintTinJr]

If by "impressive" you mean more - then yes - power consumption is at least the cube of the clock - I'm expecting the PS5 to draw maybe 25% more power yhan XbX.

The PS5 @2.2GHz will be very power inefficient, unless there's some magick ingredient we don't know about.

Well that is Sony's speciality with their entire product range. If you ever wonder why average person complains about Android TV performance on Sony Tvs, it is because the hardware to run the OS is so power conscious and they never tested with free broadband routers typical in homes, hence the performance changes with a £200 Mikrotik router. If Sony have designed the PS5 this way, and they aren't saving energy against XsX in performance per watt then they've lost their way completely (IMHO).

 

[Fake]

And some people hoped it was total BC over all generations... o boi, such magic.

I hoped to be honest.

 

[Aceofspades]

Well. I've heard that PS5 is quiet so the cooling seems to work as intended.

Cerny himself said that gamers will be pleasantly surprised at the cooling solution they did for PS5 , never done it to any PS console.

 

[Clintizzle]

 

[PaintTinJr]

The closet speculators were anyone believing the original 9.2tf Oberon leak, which in that chart goes back to a Digital Foundry article from April 2019! So almost a year old. The data was right there, but few people believed it.

All Sony did the past 12 months is figure out how to upclock the gpu 10% to get to 2.23ghz --> 10.3tf. If they didn't there's the 9.2tf.

And you can tell the entire PS5 structure can't even handle that gpu boost all the time, since there is that weird balancing cpu/gpu thing it's got to do because it cant sustain the cpu at 3.5 ghz, and gpu at 2.23 ghz 100% of the time.

It looks like they were able to adjust the gpu clock speed to a high max speed, in return for having the system automatically adjust the cpu downward if both cpu and gpu are trying to max each other out too much............. or at least something along those lines.

I love how you spin a boost mode that achieves something quite amazing – like image 500 PS5 console boxes as a server farm, all doing different types of workloads but drawing identical power and generating least amount of heat as wasted energy at real-world 10.1TF. Deterministic electrical use for X performance would certainly be something Microsoft’s Azure Cloud servers would love to replicate and would help their cost planning. I’m sure the boost system helps improve efficiency of performance per watt, lowers overall energy waste by reducing energy unused for compute and wasted as heat, meaning less heat for the air conditioning cooling system to cool, so less energy used by air conditioning too.

I bet inside Xbox they are aware of the advancement that the PS5 hardware represents, and even though it would be suicide to admit it publicly, they are likely scrambling to test different disabled CUs options and lower CPU cores to let them overclock a narrower CU count to a higher frequency – say like 44 CUs at 2GHz to see if they can get a real world gain of 1TF over the PS5 in real workloads to mitigate the lack of I/O complex in the XsX APU. If developers can use 2 or 3 times more assets in visuals on PS5 because of the I/O complex then they will to sell their games in better screenshots, even if that means they have to downgrade XsX assets to medium from ultra, but get one more Teraflop of RT or shader fx on XsX visuals.

 

[Karuyag]

Someone mentioned: If XSX wants to gain a good amount of marketshare, they'd price the XSX same as PS5.

I think that's brilliant.

 

[Rudius]

as for now stands:
cpu is 2.8 % faster in xsex
gpu is 15% better in xsex
ram size are the same but bandwidth is 50% higher for xsex(which is crazy)
ssd is 56.4% faster for ps5(this is also crazy)
ray tracing is 15.6% better in xsex

clearly these machines should seperate 100$ if not i think sony is in big trouble unless they have some crazy exclussives anyway i'm still buying ps5 because of exclussives. but yea looks like sony cheapen out for ps5 and lost power advantage on paper, though real performance is unknown? my only hope for ps5 that it will not look like a mini fridge and doesn't exceed 450$.

You made a mistake on the Ram and SSD there.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

I hoped to be honest.

Well, ok. I didn't, the amount of titles Sony has is several thousands more than MS and has PS3, so...
I like PS Now and if they pump it up with hundreds of old games I'm in. I've no old gen games anymore and I would not buy old discs even with full BC, I prefer to have it all in one place for cheap.
Not gonna lie, complete BC would have been a fucking bomb in general, just not for me. However, I care about PS4 and this 100 games thing is what annoys me most.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

You made a mistake on the Ram and SSD there.

More like 20\25% more regarding those 10 GB RAM and 100% more for SSD.
Edit: and 22 GB\s of transfer that needs to be tested.

 

[TheAmazingSpiderMan]

and you are king of bullshit riddles.

If we can take anything from this speculation thread going forward, be it mid gen refreshes or whatever gen comes next (PS6-XB2) we can come to terms he doesn't know shit all.

Everything he said from the supposed 'demo' he played is potential hogwash.

 

[-kb-]

For example, you can overclock 4 core CPU, but it will still not be able to do the same workload as 6 or 8 core CPU. You won't cut down the difference by much. Plus having less RT is different because of how much they impact the performance.

So you believe clocks have absolutely no bearing on TFLOPS and its purely just CU's?. The reality is performance is cores * clock and increasing either increase the performance pretty linearly. If you believe otherwise, why do people clock CUs above 1hz?. Sometimes increasing clocks can be better then increasing cores as you don't need to rely on increased parallelism for increased performance as your cores just run faster.

 

[TheAmazingSpiderMan]

for me sony has already lost next gen;
xbox is faster in every category except the ssd. so you have to wait 10 seconds and not 5 to load a game. lol
sony please release all of you exclusives on pc so that ps5 is obsolete. thx

SSD's aren't just about load times, there is much more you can do with these then just loading a game a few seconds faster.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Cerny himself said that gamers will be pleasantly surprised at the cooling solution they did for PS5 , never done it to any PS console.

Are they finally gonna put not shit/right amount of thermal paste on their chips?

 

[Aceofspades]

So you believe clocks have absolutely no bearing on TFLOPS and its purely just CU's?. The reality is performance is cores * clock and increasing either increase the performance pretty linearly. If you believe otherwise, why do people clock CUs above 1hz?. Sometimes increasing clocks can be better then increasing cores as you don't need to rely on increased parallelism for increased performance as your cores just run faster.

Cerny vs Raindeer.....Fight

Cerny clearly stated that achieving 4TFs by less CUs high clock is better than more CUs low clock