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Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check

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highrider

highrider

Banned
People unfortunately don’t take things like this seriously until someone they know dies. I think illegals in my area are a big problem. They mostly don’t speak English and have no clue about social distancing. You’ll be in line at the store and a dude will be like 6 inches behind you when you turn around. And they take offense when you are like get the fuck away from me, you point around the store showing them how everyone is spacing themselves, and they just have this blank expression 😐
 
S

sneas78

Banned
I honestly feel like to news media have an agenda. It’s scaring people and there is panic and chaos. Like a news reporter asking a mayor “ are you saying you will start arresting people?”
Mayor: “No that’s not what I said, we are not going to arrest Anyone”
The 24/7 corona all day and night is making people scared an panic. I honestly don’t know why people fall for that crap. It’s just making it worse.
 
Alx

Alx

Member
sneas78 said:
I honestly feel like to news media have an agenda. It’s scaring people and there is panic and chaos. Like a news reporter asking a mayor “ are you saying you will start arresting people?”
Mayor: “No that’s not what I said, we are not going to arrest Anyone”
The 24/7 corona all day and night is making people scared an panic. I honestly don’t know why people fall for that crap. It’s just making it worse.
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It's probably not so much of an agenda than a bad tendency to always look for the sensational part of a story. Everything has to be extraordinary/exciting/scary, hence why everything becomes a big deal when handled by common journalists, especially 24/7 news. It's talking to our own morbid curiosity, I mean this very thread is part of it, sharing daily body counts and people shouting "oh my god I can't believe it's so high... I wonder how high it will be tomorrow !".
 
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llien

llien

Member
Kadayi said:
Sadly an inevitability of the profession as a point of contact.
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Those are people we need the most at this point, they are invaluable.
Yet we fail to protect even this group.

It's not even remotely normal when 10% the infected were medics. (and god knows how many got infected by them)

Zefah said:
What the fuck?
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Long needed "being young doesn't mean you do not have substantial risk of dying" signal, so blurred by vague statements by the government (and WHO's "you are not invincible" doesn't cut it either, since people think, hey, even if I get infected, I have less than 1% chances of dying... Yeah, if you are not a smoker and if there are enough oxygen masks, perhaps)

autoduelist said:
And now, sure, hospitals are getting overcrowded. But we still have ventilators for many, we still have geniuses sitting in research labs trying to solve this, we still can get food delivered to our houses.
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OK, I've worked in biotech industry at a company that was creating drugs.
None of it can be created overnight, even if you find something killing the virus and potentially not deadly to humans (not an easy task, mind you) you need serious (and looong) studies to make sure your drug itself doesn't kill/seriously harm.

On top of it, note that labs (although, perhaps, not as intensively) were working on SARS for years.
 
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Kadayi

Kadayi

Banned
llien said:
Those are people we need the most at this point, they are invaluable. Yet we fail to protect even this group.
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I would imagine as with anything there's a fair degree of user error in there. So many vectors for contamination, people are going to miss something, and that's all it takes. Atul Gawande talked at length in his book 'The Checklist Manifesto' about the need for the medical profession to move over to strict procedures/protocols with peer checking at every stage to ensure errors were caught and contained. Similar to how Airline pilots or the building profession works.

If you're dealing in highly infectious diseases that sort of thing is undoubtedly SOP in a Bio-lab because you damn well know the risks, but at the same time, it's a different field from practitioner medicine.

I dare say that out of this whole situation more robust approaches will arise.
 
H

hariseldon

Unconfirmed Member
Alx said:
It's probably not so much of an agenda than a bad tendency to always look for the sensational part of a story. Everything has to be extraordinary/exciting/scary, hence why everything becomes a bid deal when handled by common journalists, especially 24/7 news. It's talking to our own morbid curiosity, I mean this very thread is part of it, sharing daily body counts and people shouting "oh my god I can't believe it's so high... I wonder how high it will be tomorrow !".
Click to expand...

In some ways it’s that framing of everything as a crisis that has led to mistrust of the media but also to people not taking this seriously. You can only cry wolf so many times.
 
E-Cat

E-Cat

Member
Kazza said:
For anybody curious about what life in China (outside of Wuhan) is like right now, I can't recommend this 10 minute from a Japanese reporter highly enough:




I don't live in Nanjing (where this was filmed), but the situation is exactly the same in the Chinese city where I am living. Note that the situation was very different last month, where pretty much everything was closed except for food markets etc. As you can see from the video, right now there is a kind of semi-lockdown in place. Only time will tell if this will be enough to prevent a resurgence of the virus here.
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Maaan, this is light-years ahead of what any of the Western countries are doing -- and only a semi-lockdown. We are so screwed.
 
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TheSadRanger

TheSadRanger

Banned
E-Cat said:
Maaan, this is light-years ahead of what any of the Western countries are doing -- and only a semi-lockdown. We are so screwed.
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Except it's all a big show and the CCP forced people back to work amidst a virus and there's even been protests from what videos have gone out.

Boy the CCP bootlickers sure have come out.

You just really want to support multi billionaires in the U.S exploiting cheap labor enslavement in China don't you.
 
llien

llien

Member
Rentahamster said:
Personally, I'd just wait until it goes on sale.

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That is funny, because a friend of mine actually bought that beer because of the C19 pandemic.
He was wondering which beer to buy, and, hey.
You see "corona" everywhere, it's basically free advertisement.

Oh, and I've figured I have a colleague called Jesus Corona. Imagine his hurdles today, chuckle.

Kadayi said:
I would imagine as with anything there's a fair degree of user error in there.
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You know, when watching footage from Italy, I was wondering, how could people, who just wear some not that impressive looking masks and have no protection on eyes/face, work all day close to infected, and not catch a virus. I guess the answer is "they actually could not".
 
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Naru

Naru

Member
TheSadRanger said:
The CCP is straight up lying, they are not reporting new cases and are just forcing people to work through it turning their economy back on.



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I thought from the beginning that is what's going to happen in the West eventually too. At some point the economy is more important than keeping this virus contained and people alive. Not releasing any new numbers would be one way to do it but people would catch on quickly if hospitals get overwhelmed and their relatives are dying in their homes. I don't know what would happen after that though. It's really a frightening outlook. If you have a society that throws it's people to the curb like that maybe that society isn't worthy of even having a economy. Lets hope it doesn't come to this.
 
E-Cat

E-Cat

Member
TheSadRanger said:
Except it's all a big show and the CCP forced people back to work amidst a virus and there's even been protests from what videos have gone out.

Boy the CCP bootlickers sure have come out.

You just really want to support multi billionaires in the U.S exploiting cheap labor enslavement in China don't you.
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Not sure if sarcastic or not.
 
eot

eot

Banned
Kadayi said:
Sadly an inevitability of the profession as a point of contact.
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It's not, it's not their job description to sacrifice themselves, and it's not in our interest for them to do so. If there is no PPE and people die as a result, that is not the doctor's fault. Firefighters aren't going to save people from a building without their protective gear either.

There is no emergency in a pandemic

You as a healthcare worker are a force multiplier. Your training and experience is invaluable moving into this crisis. So, you're going to be faced with some very difficult moments. You're going to have to put your needs first.

I'm speaking specifically about PPE and your safety.

If you're an ICU nurse, or an ICU doc, and you become infected, not only are you out of the game for potentially weeks (or killed) But your replacements could be people without your expertise. Your remaining co workers are short staffed now, more likely to make mistakes and become ill themselves. You stop being a force multiplier and start using healthcare resources.

You going in may save the patient, it may not. But you cant save any patients in the weeks your laying in a hospital bed or using a vent yourself.

People are going to die. Do not become one of them.

There is no emergency in a pandemic.

During the Ebola outbreak, people were dying. But at no point did we rush in, we took the 10 minutes to put on our PPE with our spotter. If we didn't have proper PPE we did NOT go in.

There is no emergency in a pandemic.

You may work in long term care, and want to rush in to save a patient you have had for years. Do not go in without your PPE

There is no emergency in a pandemic.

You may have a survivor in the room, screaming at you to come in because their mother is crashing. Do not go in without your PPE.

There is no emergency in a pandemic.

You may have an infected woman in labor. Screaming for help. Do not go in without your PPE.

There is no emergency in a pandemic.

A self quarantined patient has a gun shot wound and is bleeding out. Do not go in there without your PPE

There is no emergency in a pandemic

Doing nothing may be the hardest thing you've ever had to do in your life.

Many of you say, I could never do that. I wouldn't be able to stop myself from rushing in and saving my patient.

Liberian nurses and doctors said the same thing, and many did run in to help, saying PPE be damned. My patients need me.

Then they became infected, they infected others. And they died. They didn't help anyone after that.

Do not let the deaths of hundreds of healthcare workers be forgotten.
Click to expand...
 
Kadayi

Kadayi

Banned
eot said:
It's not, it's not their job description to sacrifice themselves, and it's not in our interest for them to do so. If there is no PPE and people die as a result, that is not the doctor's fault. Firefighters aren't going to save people from a building without their protective gear either.
Click to expand...

Who said anything about sacrifice? what part of increased levels of contact and human error didn't you quite get? The increased levels of contact part, or the human error part? Also for reals, if you're signing up to be a medical professional, you're fundamentally dealing with diseases for the most part. It's not all car crashes and stab wounds despite what shows like Casualty might have you believe.
 
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eot

eot

Banned
Kadayi said:
Who said anything about sacrifice? what part of increased levels of contact and human error didn't you quite get? The increased levels of contact part, or the human error part? Also for reals, if you're signing up to be a medical professional, you're fundamentally dealing with diseases for the most part. It's not all car crashes and stab wounds despite what shows like Casualty might have you believe.
Click to expand...
Safety in any field is always made as a trade off with efficiency, and I'm saying fuck efficiency in these cases. And I have a pretty good idea what the medical profession is like thank you very much.
 
crowbrow

crowbrow

Banned
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xrnzaaas

xrnzaaas

Member
Doczu said:
Another quite young death in Poland, this time a 37 yo woman.
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A 43 year old Polish bus driver also died from the virus. Personally I don't trust Polish government to be truthful about corona related deaths. They'll want to keep confirmed fatalities to a minimum in hopes of proceeding with the upcoming presidential elections.

There's also a MAJOR issue of people getting refused to be tested in Poland even if they have all the symptoms of the coronavirus. The woman who died wasn't tested for days until her health deteriorated. Of course government officials have their story about increasing numbers of tests on a daily basis.
 
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Elektro Demon

Elektro Demon

Banned
A wild idea popped in my head. Getting corona while there are still respirators available.
Getting ahead of the curve. Seems like a dick move but hey man this is survival. If you get corona after the hospitals are over run, you're fucked.
I'm not gonna do this but it is an idea that popped in my head.
 
xrnzaaas

xrnzaaas

Member
Elektro Demon said:
A wild idea popped in my head. Getting corona while there are still respirators available.
Getting ahead of the curve. Seems like a dick move but hey man this is survival. If you get corona after the hospitals are over run, you're fucked.
I'm not gonna do this but it is an idea that popped in my head.
Click to expand...
The problem with that idea is that you don't become immune after you've been treated for the first time just like it happens with a normal flu. You can get sick again after a few days/weeks and it's likely to be more hazardous to your health when you get it for the second time.
 
The Scrivener

The Scrivener

Member
Birdo said:
Just here for my daily dose of fear.
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I said I was going to take a week off of GAF. It felt like it anyway. That was Friday. lol. Life is slooooow without GAF. And the layers of fear make the stretch feel extra long.

I've been watching Trump's announcements, replying to work emails, watching Alex Jones, and getting more than slightly scared because my son's insulin supplies are being compromised - I had to make private purchases of insulin needles because the health care system is out.

If you have a medical condition, stock up on supplies now.

I'm still going to stay off GAF for a while (maybe I can do 3 days lol) because I can't stand the fear. Social media can be good for some things, but mostly it's a life killer. Over 'n' out.
 
Porcile

Porcile

Member
Birdo said:
Just here for my daily dose of fear.

I assume Italy is still counting every death as a COVID 19 death.
Click to expand...

I've found checking numbers a good way to cope, unnerving but comforting at the same time since it's just math playing out and you realise there is some logical progression to everything.
 
Doczu

Doczu

Member
xrnzaaas said:
A 43 year old Polish bus driver also died from the virus. Personally I don't trust Polish government to be truthful about corona related deaths. They'll want to keep confirmed fatalities to a minimum in hopes of proceeding with the upcoming presidential elections.

There's also a MAJOR issue of people getting refused to be tested in Poland even if they have all the symptoms of the coronavirus. The woman who died wasn't tested for days until her health deteriorated. Of course government officials have their story about increasing numbers of tests on a daily basis.
Click to expand...
I too have no trust in anything our goverment said - they might have done the right thing by locking everything down, but economically we are going to be royaly fucked. The compensation program for small businessess etc is worthless, they don't want to move the elections even though this will be a major health hazard (!!), and there are many more sick than it's officially told. But that one is true for i think all of the european countries. Goverments don't want to let people know otherwise public panic would erupt.
 
betrayal

betrayal

Banned
Some people here are really strange. No matter which government publishes which deaths, no matter which country helps another country...always everybody lies and always no government can be trusted.

Sometimes it is good to have some distance to the topic. Not always everything is covered up and not always there are hidden goals or fantasies of world conquest if you help someone. I don't know why people think that obvious things can't be true in a world where everyone can make everything public immediately thanks to the social media. And yes, of course this is also true for China. There are more than enough reports of independent private people staying in China. Also, none of the relatives of the alleged hundreds of thousands of deaths have yet come forward and made it public that China is lying. But these millions of people have probably been secretly shipped to gulags. :messenger_grimmacing_
 
Ornlu

Ornlu

Banned
betrayal said:
Some people here are really strange. No matter which government publishes which deaths, no matter which country helps another country...always everybody lies and always no government can be trusted.

Sometimes it is good to have some distance to the topic. Not always everything is covered up and not always there are hidden goals or fantasies of world conquest if you help someone. I don't know why people think that obvious things can't be true in a world where everyone can make everything public immediately thanks to the social media. And yes, of course this is also true for China. There are more than enough reports of independent private people staying in China. Also, none of the relatives of the alleged hundreds of thousands of deaths have yet come forward and made it public that China is lying. But these millions of people have probably been secretly shipped to gulags. :messenger_grimmacing_
Click to expand...

Who exactly within China would feel safe enough to speak out on the record, as you're suggesting? Whistleblowers in China tend to have a very bleak life expectancy.
 
Doczu

Doczu

Member
betrayal said:
Some people here are really strange. No matter which government publishes which deaths, no matter which country helps another country...always everybody lies and always no government can be trusted.
Click to expand...

Can't speak for the other countries, but after seeing what communism did in my country and what the descendants of these people are doing now how can you trust the government?
I'm not talking about any super secret world domination (lol, insert Poland stronk meme), but all (but one) parties since 1989 are built on lies and skeletons in closets and they will do anything to remain in power, so lies about the severity (both medically, socially and economically) of this pandemic are given.
 
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