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[DForce]

No lol. People are laughing at those devs who say PS5 is more powerful or equally powerful console because it goes against actual specs of the console, while they agree with those who say Series X is more powerful because it is .

This is false

Devs were saying

It's more than just teraflops
Playstation 5 is superior in other ways.
The difference between PS5 and XsX is not that great.


You said this the other day.

Have you ever seen a PC gamer mock console gamers because of 20-40 seconds faster loading? No lol, it's always been about graphical fidelity and framerate. Imagine PC gamer making fun of another PC gamer because of faster SSD . That's why it's so funny to me . I don't even plan to buy an Xbox and I've said that before here, I just prefer PC gaming when it comes to Microsoft, but this whole SSD craze is just plain ridiculous and funny to see. And btw, gamers have been making fun of each other because of 15% power difference and even less, never about SSD .

I think it was clear that you were downplaying the impact of the SSD and how it will be used in next gen consoles. I also seen other people say "it's just 2 seconds faster."

But when Digital Foundry and others make videos saying it's more than just faster loading, you guys ignore it because it doesn't agree with your point.

I'm not ignoring that the dev is saying. It CAN be true, but I know we're getting a lot of different messages from these devs and that means there's no clear cut evidence until we actually see these games in action.

 

[Reindeer]

Sure that is why .

People will believe whoever says what they want to hear, it's why they believed insiders and devs who said that PS5 is 12-13 tflops. But one can just look at the specs of the consoles because that's factual data. GitHub was factual data that people didn't wanna believe in it because it didn't fit their narrative, same thing is happening now. There are people right now in next gen speculation thread while believe that audio on next gen consoles will consume 20% power and therefore PS5 will be far superior lol.

 

[HawarMiran]

I think Sony will show off HZD running on PS5 soon. Remember that GG said we will see more details about HZD on PC soon? They will announce some definitive edition and announce it for PC and PS5. Just a guess. I am desperate for footage

 

[Reindeer]

This is false

Devs were saying

It's more than just teraflops
Playstation 5 is superior in other ways.
The difference between PS5 and XsX is not that great.


You said this the other day.



I think it was clear that you were downplaying the impact of the SSD and how it will be used in next gen consoles. I also seen other people say "it's just 2 seconds faster."

But when Digital Foundry and others make videos saying it's more than just faster loading, you guys ignore it because it doesn't agree with your point.

I'm not ignoring that the dev is saying. It CAN be true, but I know we're getting a lot of different messages from these devs and that means there's no clear cut evidence until we actually see these games in action.

There's no factual proof that SSD will make up some of that gap or all of it, it's just speculation at this point. While you choose to believe devs who say what you want to hear, there are devs and experts now saying that despite SSD advantage Series X is more powerful. I believe in factual specs/data and the precedent that has been set, not speculations that fits my narrative. That's the difference between us.

 

[Goliathy]

Ask them why the Velocity Architecture and SSD as Virtual Memory is such a big deal on XSX while taking an SSD and connecting it to Xbox One X did not offer anywhere near the same new possibilities and benefits.

Seek times are out of the question... what is left.. ah yes, bandwidth... uhm, so giving people more than 2x the bandwidth is now meaningless? ...

 

[Piku_Ringo]

The war may have been lost once again friends!!

 

[StreetsofBeige]

DF doing God's work.

I would have never guessed getting the most beastly console or PC would be tossing all the marbles in for an SSD.

 

[Reindeer]

DF doing God's work.

I would have never guessed getting the most beastly console or PC would be tossing all the marbles in for an SSD.

And don't forget 3D that will make PS5 far superior because it will consume 20% of Series X power .

 

[DForce]

There's no factual proof that SSD will make up some of that gap or all of it, it's just speculation at this point. While you choose to believe devs who say what you want them to hear, there are devs and experts now saying that despite SSD advantage Series X is more powerful. I believe in factual specs/data and the precedent that has been set, not speculations that fits my narrative. That's the difference between us.

I'm not talking about closing a gap.

You just mention load times when there's more to it than that.

You were also wrong by claiming it doesn't help with graphical fidelity when it does.

If devs talk about loading the highest quality assets in a second, then that means he helps produce better graphics. You can't say Xbox One X's better memory helped make games look better than the PlayStation 4 Pro with the use of 4K textures.

Conclusion: You tried to make people believe it was nothing more than just faster loading when Digital Foundry and others were saying it was more than that.

 

[Panajev2001a]

It would help your case if I were arguing that SSD speed brings you more TFLOPS, but I am not. Cute that you manage to speak out of both sides of your mouth with trying to Imply SSD speed is not as important as people think and still Xbox has TONS anyways (I guess their engineers like to waste money that could have gone to having a single memory pool eh ? ).

 

[HawarMiran]

wtf crapgamer is full on PS fanboy now hahaha. from one extreme to another. at least he chose the right system this time around

 

[DForce]

Overall it's not faster, but greater in other areas.




He agrees that multiplats will be held back because the SSD on the XsX is slower.

 

[Goliathy]

Overall it's not faster, but greater in other areas.




He agrees that multiplats will be held back because the SSD on the XsX is slower.

defense force? Is that what the d stands for? Lol
He doesn’t say that though, what would the real world difference between those SSDs be? There are diminishing returns.
but well, we will see, I guess.
I still think GPU/CPU and memory bandwidth are much more important in a console than having a fast or a very fast SSD.

 

[Hobbygaming]

DF doing God's work.

I would have never guessed getting the most beastly console or PC would be tossing all the marbles in for an SSD.

Edit: I was a little late with my reply lol

 

[SynTha1]

Wasn't there a poll of devs that said a overwhelming percentage was more excited to work with the ps5 than the series x not too long ago that was posted here if so I think I'll go with the people who are actually working with the hardware rather than a bunch of random people who haven't even seen a tech demo let alone fully understand what was said during the gdc presentation.

 

[Goliathy]

Edit: I was a little late with my reply lol

yeah, ssd in general. Doesn’t mean that Xbox series x isn’t capable of that. Series x also has a very fast ssd, U know

 

[Reindeer]

I'm not talking about closing a gap.

You just mention load times when there's more to it than that.

You were also wrong by claiming it doesn't help with graphical fidelity when it does.

If devs talk about loading the highest quality assets in a second, then that means he helps produce better graphics. You can't say Xbox One X's better memory helped make games look better than the PlayStation 4 Pro with the use of 4K textures.

Conclusion: You tried to make people believe it was nothing more than just faster loading when Digital Foundry and others were saying it was more than that.

Dude, you are twisting my words and this is bordering on lying. I mentioned load times because it's one of the advantages with next gen consoles. I mentioned that load times has never been used as a way to claim superiority by gamers, which is a fact. I also mentioned load times because it's the only area where we see difference, everything else is speculation at this point (that faster SSD will be big difference in game design compared to slower ones).

As for the claim that faster SSD will drastically change game design compared to a slower one is still a speculation and there exists no factual proof of this. You just clinging on to whatever you want to hear in your pursuit to prove to yourself that PS5 is more than it is at this point. I also not once said that PS5 SSD might not improve some game design elements, but to think it's gonna be something great is wishful thinking at this point. And even if there is advantage, it's not something that can be measured because it will only effect first party games.

 

[DForce]

defense force? Is that what the d stands for? Lol
He doesn’t say that though, what would the real world difference between those SSDs be? There are diminishing returns.
but well, we will see, I guess.
I still think GPU/CPU and memory bandwidth are much more important in a console than having a fast or a very fast SSD.

There's no defensive force. I'm simply posting what he is saying and you're just trying to downplay it.

I still think GPU/CPU and memory bandwidth are much more important in a console than having a fast or a very fast SSD.

Can I post this under defense force by people who are trying to downplay the impact of an SSD.

Here is John talks about the memory on both consoles. (time stamped)



He says the SSD changes the way the SSD is used. Every time I talk about the speeds, people try to think it doesn't have that much of an impact and guys such as yourself are trying to downplay it as much as possible.

 

[Goliathy]

Wasn't there a poll of devs that said a overwhelming percentage was more excited to work with the ps5 than the series x not too long ago that was posted here if so I think I'll go with the people who are actually working with the hardware rather than a bunch of random people who haven't even seen a tech demo let alone fully understand what was said during the gdc presentation.

nah. This was before the reveal, back in January, and it was just a small GDC poll. Doesn’t mean anything. Also should be done again AFTER the ps5 reveal.

 

[II_JumPeR_I]

This guy... still in denial... wish we could ignore this hypocrite fanboy already...

 

[Hobbygaming]

yeah, ssd in general. Doesn’t mean that Xbox series x isn’t capable of that. Series x also has a very fast ssd, U know

PS5 SSD is twice as fast and I'm willing to bet it is more custom. The games will greatly benefit from it

 

[Reindeer]

PS5 SSD is twice as fast and I'm willing to bet it is more custom. The games will greatly benefit from it

Everything is more custom with PS5 and it has smarter architecture while everything is less custom on Xbox and it has a dumber architecture.... SMH

 

[DForce]

Dude, you are twisting my words and this is bordering on lying. I mentioned load times because it's one of the advantages with next gen consoles. I mentioned that load times has never been used as a way to claim superiority by gamers, which is a fact.

As for the claim that faster SSD will drastically change game design compared to a slower one is still a speculation and there exists no factual proof of this. You just clinging on to whatever you want to hear in your pursuit to prove to yourself that PS5 is more than it is at this point. I also not once said that PS5 SSD might not improve some game design elements, but to think it's gonna be something great is wishful thinking at this point. And even if there is advantage, it's not something that can be measured because it will only effect first party games.

There's no clinging. AMD showed off how SSD can change the way SSD can change graphics.



You call it wishful thinking when it was demoed by AMD themselves.

Have you ever seen a PC gamer mock console gamers because of 20-40 seconds faster loading? No lol, it's always been about graphical fidelity and framerate.

This doesn't seem like someone who believed it was possible that the SSD usage could help with graphical fidelity.

 

[II_JumPeR_I]

PS5 SSD is twice as fast and I'm willing to bet it is more custom. The games will greatly benefit from it

Yeah.. lets wait and see if that magic Sony SSD is so fast or not... people probably wont notice much in 3rd party games. Or its probably a wash...

Man this SSD secret sauce shit gets tiring...

 

[Reindeer]

This doesn't seem like someone who believed it was possible that the SSD usage could help with graphical fidelity.

So you take one of my comments in isolation that was talking about the only factually known difference and started assuming things? Ok. And that Digital Foundry video on SSD doesn't say that there'll be great difference in design between faster and slower SDDs, it was about SSDs in general. You assuming a lot of things at this point in order to pursue your agenda, just maybe wait for games first before you start taking speculations as facts.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Yeah.. lets wait and see if that magic Sony SSD is so fast or not... people probably wont notice much in 3rd party games. Or its probably a wash...

Man this SSD secret sauce shit gets tiring...

1st party games will benefit the most

 

[Hobbygaming]

yeah, ssd in general. Doesn’t mean that Xbox series x isn’t capable of that. Series x also has a very fast ssd, U know

He says the PS5 SSD is much faster

 

[Deeper Underground]

Yeah.. lets wait and see if that magic Sony SSD is so fast or not... people probably wont notice much in 3rd party games. Or its probably a wash...

Man this SSD secret sauce shit gets tiring...

Not as tiring as the people who refuse to believe it will be used for anything else, but faster loading despite devs and people like DF telling you differently.

 

[DForce]

So you take one of my comments in isolation that was talking about the only factually known difference and started assuming things? Ok. And that Digital Foundry video on SSD doesn't say that there'll be great difference in design between faster and slower SDDs, it was about SSDs in general. You assuming a lot of things at this point in order to pursue your agenda, just maybe wait for games first before you start taking speculations as facts.

I isolated your post about the SSD. It was just inaccurate.You were pretty clear that it didn't help with graphical fidelity.

If the SSD can produce 2 times the speed as the Xbox Series X, then that means it will likely send out much better quality assets at a faster pace.

It's time stamped here. Digital Foundry specifically mentions fidelity and scope and how it can change with the use of an SSD. It would be like me saying PS5 and XsX can push out the same number of pixels but just a bit slower. We know trying to render the same frame at the exact same resolution for all games will impact PS5's performance. In the case of the SSD, sending out large sets of high quality assets on the PS5 will change the performance on the XsX since it won't be able to keep up.

This is why John stays sure it will only be used for first party.

 

[Reindeer]

I isolated your post about the SSD. It was just inaccurate.You were pretty clear that it didn't help with graphical fidelity.

If the SSD can produce 2 times the speed as the Xbox Series X, then that means it will likely send out much better quality assets at a faster pace.

It's time stamped here. Digital Foundry specifically mentions fidelity and scope and how it can change with the use of an SSD. It would be like me saying PS5 and XsX can push out the same number of pixels but just a bit slower. We know trying to render the same frame at the exact same resolution for all games will impact PS5's performance. In the case of the SSD, sending out large sets of high quality assets on the PS5 will change the performance on the XsX since it won't be able to keep up.

This is why John stays sure it will only be used for first party.

Again, Digital Foundry were talking about SSD in general, you still have no proof that this will be the case with faster SSD over slower one. Even if this is the case, you have no idea how much that difference will be and how much it will be able to make to make up for the difference that exists between CPU and GPU. The differences in load times and differences when it comes to CPU and GPU we already know based on factual data over many many years.

 

[Rightisright]

Ex Sony game developer.

 

[sendit]

If Sony can match the improvements seen below:

I believe they should start worrying.

 

[HawarMiran]

Look guys the xbox one released much weaker. After a couple of years MS released One X and had a power advantage. This time around the gap is even not that big and if Sony gets outsold like Xbox last gen they will shift their priorities to "look guys we have a few TF more than our competition." Will not happen and should not happen.

 

[DForce]

Again, Digital Foundry were talking about SSD in general, you still have no proof that this will be the case with faster SSD over slower one. Even if this is the case, you have no idea how much that difference will be and how much it will be able to make to make up the difference that exists between CPU and GPU. The differences in load times and differences when it comes to CPU and GPU we already know based on factual data over many many years.

You agree with a guy saying the difference is staggering, but now you want proof that it's going to be much faster?


This is what I'm talking about. You want to downplay the SSD speed, but when people say TF doesn't mean much, you guys want to say they're damage controlling.


We have numbers that the SSD is faster (proof) which means they can provide data more quickly.

 

[Infinite_Trajektory]

Why does every thread act as if Sony has some demigod in a closet waiting to be released and that Microsoft has shown their full deck ?

 

[Reindeer]

You agree with a guy saying the difference is staggering, but now you want proof that it's going to be much faster?


This is what I'm talking about. You want to downplay the SSD speed, but when people say TF doesn't mean much, you guys want to say they're damage controlling.


We have numbers that the SSD is faster (proof) which means they can provide data more quickly.

No lol, you don't understand, there exists no factual proof that faster SSD will bring massive game design difference over slower ones. Just think, a faster SSD barely brings any difference over slower one when it comes to loading, what makes you believe that this won't be the case with it comes to possibilities with game design and its effect on graphical output? So far we have proof that SSD is great, but not proof that faster one makes much difference over slower one when it comes to gaming. You just believing whatever it is you want to believe.

 

[DForce]

No lol, you don't understand, there exists no factual proof that faster SSD will bring massive game design difference over slower ones. Just think, a faster SSD barely brings any difference over slower one when it comes to loading, what makes you believe that this won't be the case with it comes to possibilities with game design and its effect on graphical output? So far we have proof that SSD is great, but not proof that faster one makes much difference over slower one when it comes to gaming. You just believing whatever it is you want to believe.

Transferring large amount of data at a faster pace is not proof based on the numbers of the SSD hardware? That's like saying there's no proof that 12TF will render more pixels than the 10TF PS5. lol

 

[DForce]

Why does every thread act as if Sony has some demigod in a closet waiting to be released and that Microsoft has shown their full deck ?

We know there's stuff that has yet to be revealed.

I just find it funny that people are saying the SSD is secret sauce even though MS and Sony are both talking about how it will impact how games are made.

 

[Laconian Sword]

there exists no factual proof that faster SSD will bring massive game design difference over slower ones.

They designed it to bring massive game design differences. That's how engineering works.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

No lol, you don't understand, there exists no factual proof that faster SSD will bring massive game design difference over slower ones. Just think, a faster SSD barely brings any difference over slower one when it comes to loading, what makes you believe that this won't be the case with it comes to possibilities with game design and its effect on graphical output? So far we have proof that SSD is great, but not proof that faster one makes much difference over slower one when it comes to gaming. You just believing whatever it is you want to believe.

The thing about SSDs too which is a benefit is loading a game.

Load a game in two seconds.

That's sounds great.

BUT, many games have mandatory splash screens due to agreements with partners...... plublisher, dev steam, Unreal Engine license, sports team licenae, HAVOK engine license.

No matter the speed of the SSD, you got to sit there and stare at them as they are unskippable.

 

[Reindeer]

Transferring large amount of data at a faster pace is not proof based on the numbers of the SSD hardware? That's like saying there's no proof that 12TF will render more pixels than the 10TF PS5. lol

By that logic there should be a sizeable difference when it comes to loading between a fast SSD and much slower ones, but there isn't. And your comparison with Tflops is way off as they both do completely different things.

 

[Infinite_Trajektory]

We know there's stuff that has yet to be revealed.

I just find it funny that people are saying the SSD is secret sauce even though MS and Sony are both talking about how it will impact how games are made.

Most know it will influence game design now and in the future. The concern is, should it be the end all conversation and does it matter in theory versus actual workload ?

I ask everyone to go look at your read write speeds in terms of as actual workload on all of your hybrid hdd or hdd. Then look at whats been offered on the PC for nvME and now our future consoles. It's a big jump all around. So to say that one is a game changer completely ignoring PC's and what MS is doing with the XSX ...its laughable and agenda filled.

 

[Reindeer]

They designed it to bring massive game design differences. That's how engineering works.

I agree, but there exists no proof that there will be "massive game design differences" when it comes to faster SSD over slower ones. Just look at how little difference a much faster SSD makes over slower one when it comes to loading. This is all a pipe dream at this point.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

I think Sony will show off HZD running on PS5 soon. Remember that GG said we will see more details about HZD on PC soon? They will announce some definitive edition and announce it for PC and PS5. Just a guess. I am desperate for footage

this would be a great way to one-up the Gears 5 on XsX footage

I hope they do this. HZD will be glorious on PS5

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

People will believe whoever says what they want to hear, it's why they believed insiders and devs who said that PS5 is 12-13 tflops. But one can just look at the specs of the consoles because that's factual data. GitHub was factual data that people didn't wanna believe in it because it didn't fit their narrative, same thing is happening now. There are people right now in next gen speculation thread while believe that audio on next gen consoles will consume 20% power and therefore PS5 will be far superior lol.

Please.

"Tflops is defined as the computational capability of the vector ALU. This is just one part of the GPU and there are a lot of other units." Try to understand that and its implications. There's a very real possibility in actual PERFORMANCE, which is wholly different from a misleading number, that PS5 is faster or neck and neck with Series X.

I can play your game: 'PS5 is faster because its GPU number on the spec sheet is 400Mhz higher'. You see how frustrating that is?

 

[Reindeer]

Transferring large amount of data at a faster pace is not proof based on the numbers of the SSD hardware? That's like saying there's no proof that 12TF will render more pixels than the 10TF PS5. lol

Another thing. SSD is not comparable to CPU and GPU because graphical fidelity still has a very long way to go to achieve photorealism compared to advantages SSD brings when it comes to game design or loading.

Once SSD allows for 1-2 seconds loading, going with even faster SSD for loading will not being any further benefit. So there is a technological wall. Same for game design, there isn't that much further game design can be taken and we'll probably hit that wall soon as well. This is why Cerny used a PS2 game to show game design limitation and not a PS3 or PS4 game. So we are much closer to hitting a technological wall with SSD when it comes to loading and game design than we are with ever hitting that wall with CPU and GPU.

This is why Microsoft chose not to focus on very fast SSD, because its implications are less than that of GPU and CPU.

 

[majestix1988]

its just we are stand of view of being a gamer/customer not game developers thats why we have doubts on their saying with easy judgement
meanwhile adding we judge via numbers like teraflops this teraflops that or judging that sound engines that used by these consoles are same but in reality its different approach same as SSD usage on use we believe as customer to make these consoles to be fast to use like those loading screen will be gone in seconds or miliseconds but in Sony point of view these SSD are needed on game development(that Cerny said the custom SSD of PS5 will be part of game developement as part of their revolution on gaming) meanwhile on Xbox Series X is just for easy access thats it..i could talk about SSD on xbox series x but they are lacking information on game development achievement to use it on their console so watever

if you are really not stupid or such...then dont believe these fanboyism or judging easily on these machines due it will backfire on you on gaming lifestyle we are just riding a train called "hype" with crazy turns and fucked up scenarios...

 

[DForce]

Another thing. SSD is not comparable to CPU and GPU because graphical fidelity still has a very long way to go to achieve photorealism compared to advantages SSD brings when it comes to game design or loading.

Once SSD allows for 1-2 seconds loading, going with even faster SSD for loading will not being any further benefit. So there is a technological wall. Same for game design, there isn't that much further game design can be taken and we'll probably hit that wall soon as well. This is why Cerny used a PS2 game to show game design sacrifice and not a PS3 or PS4 game. So we are much closer to hitting a technological wall with SSD when it comes to loading and game design than we are with ever hitting that wall with CPU and GPU. This is why SSD's main benefit going forward will likely be with being able to use it as ram rather than game design or loading.

This is why Microsoft chose not to focus on very fast SSD, because its implications are less than that of GPU and CPU.

This post is so wrong in many areas.

Another thing. SSD is not comparable to CPU and GPU because graphical fidelity still has a very long way to go to achieve photorealism compared to advantages SSD brings when it comes to game design or loading.

You clearly did not watch the video. Digital Foundry talks about fidelity and what it would bring by the use of the SSD.

But here is a former developer from Naught Dog.

highest resolution version of any asset just in front of you and drop it immediately as you turn around means that every tree can have 3d

Highest version of any asset?

He's specifically talking about how SSD will change the usage of memory and how they're able to dump high quality assets in an instant.

These assets take up space and the bigger the file is, the longer is going to take. If PS5's SSD is faster, then that mean they can drop bigger assets quickly. Both have their own compression systems, but for some reason you believe this will reduce the gap in speed.



They are not comparable since they all work in different areas to produce a high quality image. You can't tell me that this doesn't help bring the dream of realism to life. There's a reason why they're using an SSD and this is because they want to accomplish this goal and it's not only for faster load times.

 

[manuvlad]

PlayStation 5 Analysis

 

[wintersouls]

Naughty Dog insists that PS5 will be a breakthrough in video game creation