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The PlayStation 5 SSD Will Not Change Open World Games Dramatically

SSDs are going to make drastic changes in the way devs can make both linear and open worlds.

Current open worlds: can't go in every building. Pop-in. Short draw distance. Poor texture quality up close to objects. Very little world persistence. Slow travel speed. Low NPC and asset variety. And on and on. All will be rectified directly or indirectly due to SSDs streaming speed.
This.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
I know how graphics/processing power directly translates to the games I play.

I don’t know how being able to completely cycle through the RAM pool in 2 seconds instead of 4 seconds will translate to anything the PS5 can do phenomenally that the XsX literally cannot do at all
Cerny talks about loading data within a fraction of a second. The time it takes for a player to turn around and for the camera to keep up. With all the compression techniques and consume hardware to decompress assets and remove bottlenecks, a 5.5GB was still their target to accomplish that goal.

It's about instant access and not the large gap in dely.
 

SonGoku

Member
hmmm...


kVNPrsl.png

One thing I hope studios are thinking about is creating systems for higher quality procedurally generated assets. These SSD improvements open up the door for vaster and more intricately designed spaces, which are going to require a whole helluva lot more art.

BWnfbu1.png


GEZGJsB.png





Seems like its a pretty unanimous sentiment: SSD will drastically change game design
 
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hyperbertha

Member
Most asinine thing I’ve read all night. Congratulations.

Didn’t that DIcktator guy make the Ssd video for that pc space game praising variety due to assets content streaming?

How quick attitudes change. The guys lack of consistency and lack of vision really undermines DF credibility. To be honest, this is the first time such a thought has struck me. Oh well.
In the end the debate is on how impactful procedural content is to open world creation. Does assets used this way need to be loaded onto memory? I'm hearing yes and no from different sources.
 

Bryank75

Banned
Playstation-5-logo.jpg


The PlayStation 5 SSD is among the console's most exciting features, but it will not change open-world games dramatically, at least by itself.

In a recent post on the ResetEra forums, Digital Foundry Content Producer Alexander Battaglia commented on the console's SSD, highlighting how open-world games will not allow different looking open-world games, as the data pulled from the SSD would be static data, and open-world games increase details and variety through procedural methods.


On a related note, Alexander Battaglia also commented on the Xbox Series X GPU, highlighting how it is simply better than the PlayStation 5's.


Oh no? Just static data? Like buildings, foliage, roads, shacks, tents etc etc etc.
FML
 
sony devs hyping sony hardware. Who'd thunk it? Water is wet.

However, I hope it turns out true as it will benefit both platforms.
Sony devs says "better data management". Seems like they're just suggestiong better data management etc will create quicker,easier development which can then lead to more impressive games.
 
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A.Romero

Member
Not being condescending but you just demonstrated that the conversation having had here requires more than “having played a lot of games” to be able to make a non laughable contribution.
What do you think of the follow up posts?
 
ShutterMunster
Art Lead @ Activision.

JasoNsider
Developer at Breakfall


Do you have breaking news? Did Sony buy these two studios?
The two I saw were Naughty Dog devs.

Either way, I see them mentioning "improved data management". So quicker,easier, more efficient development can lead to better games. I hope this turns out to be the case as it will benefit both platforms and any 3rd party that so chooses to do so.
 

TBiddy

Member
No sarcasm. You actually think Alex has good vision when it comes to how SSDs will change game creation next-gen?

Why wouldn't he? Besides, that wasn't the point I was surprised about. It was your attempt to undermine him and get his colleague to have a word with him. That is way out of line and exactly the reason why very few journalists care to post on Gaf.
 

mckmas8808

Banned
Why wouldn't he? Besides, that wasn't the point I was surprised about. It was your attempt to undermine him and get his colleague to have a word with him. That is way out of line and exactly the reason why very few journalists care to post on Gaf.

Few journalists post on GAF due to the "break-up" a year ago that ended up creating ResetERA. That's the truth. But to the point at hand.......what's the point in telling gamers that something as big as a super-fast SSD won't change open-world games in a big way? Like how would he know? And does he really think he's in a position to really say that?

It's a cocky thing to say really. SSDs in consoles is a revolutionary thing and here comes Alex to piss on all our hopes and dreams. In front of real devs too.
 

TBiddy

Member
Few journalists post on GAF due to the "break-up" a year ago that ended up creating ResetERA. That's the truth. But to the point at hand.......what's the point in telling gamers that something as big as a super-fast SSD won't change open-world games in a big way? Like how would he know? And does he really think he's in a position to really say that?

It's a cocky thing to say really. SSDs in consoles is a revolutionary thing and here comes Alex to piss on all our hopes and dreams. In front of real devs too.

He's presenting a well-informed opinion. You can agree or disagree, but acting like he needs to be called out or to present him as a liability to the DF team is just shitty.
 

mckmas8808

Banned
He's presenting a well-informed opinion. You can agree or disagree, but acting like he needs to be called out or to present him as a liability to the DF team is just shitty.

We agree to disagree. And when he's proven wrong with 2 years we'll all laugh at him and use that clip as fodder like we did this gen when a publication tried to downplay the PS4 selling a million units in like a day. Plus take a quick look at this GDC presentation on how Insomniac did streaming on Spiderman. I timestamped it for you so that it goes straight to the cool part. You only need to watch about 2 minutes of it.





Now did you see and hear that? Now imagine if they had a SSD that could stream data at 10 GBs per second instead of a HDD streaming 50 MBs of data per second.
 

TLZ

Banned
Few journalists post on GAF due to the "break-up" a year ago that ended up creating ResetERA. That's the truth. But to the point at hand.......what's the point in telling gamers that something as big as a super-fast SSD won't change open-world games in a big way? Like how would he know? And does he really think he's in a position to really say that?

It's a cocky thing to say really. SSDs in consoles is a revolutionary thing and here comes Alex to piss on all our hopes and dreams. In front of real devs too.
Because he's PC Master Race who's been using SSD for years and knows better than the console peasants who are just going to experience SSD for the first time. So don't get too excited peasants ;)
 

TBiddy

Member
We agree to disagree. And when he's proven wrong with 2 years we'll all laugh at him and use that clip as fodder like we did this gen when a publication tried to downplay the PS4 selling a million units in like a day. Plus take a quick look at this GDC presentation on how Insomniac did streaming on Spiderman. I timestamped it for you so that it goes straight to the cool part. You only need to watch about 2 minutes of it.





Now did you see and hear that? Now imagine if they had a SSD that could stream data at 10 GBs per second instead of a HDD streaming 50 MBs of data per second.


Can't get the video to work embedded and on youtube it start from the beginning. Which part is it you're referring to?
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
thing is, the casuals... how do you sell this to the casuals?

The same way you sell 1st party games catered to the casuals. Let the media and fanboys do the talk, then the casuals will follow.

And by the look of neogaf, it looks like there's many casuals, as they think the ssd will revolutionize the hardware industry. Because Sony says so.
 
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mckmas8808

Banned
Can't get the video to work embedded and on youtube it start from the beginning. Which part is it you're referring to?

17 minutes and 56 seconds in. He's talking about how much data they need to load per second. They load 3 tiles for every 128 meters Spiderman travelled in the game. And how it'll take them 1.33 seconds to load those 3 tiles. They could only pack 20 MBs of data per tile (which falls in-line with the 50 MBs per second the HDD could push out). 6 MBs only was for the lighting, 10 for the model, 1.5 for the textures, and 3 for the Zone (or area around you). And they had to limit how fast spider-man could go due to the limit of the HDD speed.

Now imagine instead of it being 20 MBs of data per tile, it was 4 GBs of data. Or if it was 1 GB of data per tile, but instead of just 3 tiles per 1.33 seconds it was 12 tiles. Meaning they could make Spiderman move faster in the scene in real-time. Or keep him the same speed, but make the game run at 60 fps. To me that's a BIG change from this gen.
 

SoraNoKuni

Member
It won't matter in the very end, even if ps5 is weaker in every aspect, even in the I/O department (Which won't be, some optimized compression won't make up the difference, it's huge) once a game like bloodborne 2 or next Kojima's game is announced the PS5 will outsell XSX 4 to 1.

I respect MS for creating such a beast but they target kids and PCMR audience right now. Those people will either buy the cheaper console that runs fortnite or a $2k PC.
Games matter the most, after all.
 

Kenpachii

Member
We agree to disagree. And when he's proven wrong with 2 years we'll all laugh at him and use that clip as fodder like we did this gen when a publication tried to downplay the PS4 selling a million units in like a day. Plus take a quick look at this GDC presentation on how Insomniac did streaming on Spiderman. I timestamped it for you so that it goes straight to the cool part. You only need to watch about 2 minutes of it.





Now did you see and hear that? Now imagine if they had a SSD that could stream data at 10 GBs per second instead of a HDD streaming 50 MBs of data per second.


They should let this guy talk the next time in a tech talk. Dude does a hella good job.
 

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
The same way you sell 1st party games catered to the casuals. Let the media and fanboys do the talk, then the casuals will follow.

And by the look of neogaf, it looks like there's many casuals, as they think the ssd will revolutionize the hardware industry. Because Sony says so.

Can't wait for launch. "My inferior graphics load faster"
 

TBiddy

Member
17 minutes and 56 seconds in. He's talking about how much data they need to load per second. They load 3 tiles for every 128 meters Spiderman travelled in the game. And how it'll take them 1.33 seconds to load those 3 tiles. They could only pack 20 MBs of data per tile (which falls in-line with the 50 MBs per second the HDD could push out). 6 MBs only was for the lighting, 10 for the model, 1.5 for the textures, and 3 for the Zone (or area around you). And they had to limit how fast spider-man could go due to the limit of the HDD speed.

Now imagine instead of it being 20 MBs of data per tile, it was 4 GBs of data. Or if it was 1 GB of data per tile, but instead of just 3 tiles per 1.33 seconds it was 12 tiles. Meaning they could make Spiderman move faster in the scene in real-time. Or keep him the same speed, but make the game run at 60 fps. To me that's a BIG change from this gen.

Thanks. It does sound interesting yes, and yes, going from 30 > 60 FPS is a big change, but that is also thanks to the CPU and the GPU. And yes, the SSD will allow more assest to be streamed faster... but here's the million dollar question. Is it really a "dramatic change"?

I guess we will find out.
 

replicant-

Member
I may be wrong, but a fundamental shift will only be present in 1st or 2nd party games exclusive for the PS5.

Developers will need to consider both XSX and PC architecture when designing games to be released across all platforms - no specific map for PS5.

The problem probably isn't so much with the XSX as devs as it is a fixed spec with a mandatory SSD, however on PC a high proprtion of players probably still use mechanical drives (madness I know). There is a reason, as far as I'm aware, the only game on PC where a SSD is mandatory is Star Citizen.
 

EDMIX

Member


Agreed.

Just based on what they've shown with Spiderman running on it, its clear it will change a lot for open world titles.

Semi OT, but I wonder if something like this would be made next gen. I recall reading somewhere that something like 3TFLOPS was needed to really do something like this a long time ago.



I'll try to find the article that talked about it.

 
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hyperbertha

Member
Thanks. It does sound interesting yes, and yes, going from 30 > 60 FPS is a big change, but that is also thanks to the CPU and the GPU. And yes, the SSD will allow more assest to be streamed faster... but here's the million dollar question. Is it really a "dramatic change"?

I guess we will find out.
You don't see how going from 20 mb to 4 gb per unit space is a dramatic change? If you want movie quality CGI , this is how you get it.
 

TBiddy

Member
You don't see how going from 20 mb to 4 gb per unit space is a dramatic change? If you want movie quality CGI , this is how you get it.

I don't see how it will affect gameplay in a drastic manner. Yes, sure, games will load faster, games will have bigger maps and such, but dramatic changes? I doubt it, but I hope to be proven wrong.
 

Metnut

Member
I can’t wait to see first party developers make games for this beast. It’s really exciting stuff.

I’m happy that they will be able to optimize the games specifically for the PS5, rather than have to make sure they run on weaker systems (i.e., Lockhart).
 

Elenchus

Banned
Again you guys are WRONG. It's just stupid that you believe the SSD won't have that much of a change in game design when literally devs are saying the opposite. Wake up man!

Stop calling people stupid. And don’t respond with the lame excuse that you’re chastising the sin and not the sinner. People have different views and they are expressing them.

Cerny thought cell architecture would change gaming. He then thought the cooling strategy he selected for the Pro would be sufficient. He’s been wrong before. He may well be wrong here.

He doesn’t have a box for anyone to review and his theories were not backed by any hard data. I’m also hearing the PS5 dev kits are not even equipped with this SSD which will be hilarious if true.

Just try to relax. Maybe go wash your hands or something.
 

hyperbertha

Member
Haha. Sure thing. We're not gonna see bigger maps next gen. Somehow I think that is more likely than "Movie Quality CGI".
This just proves you still don't understand how this works. Technically, you can have bigger maps whether you have ssd or hdd. But ssd gets us closer to movie quality is all I'm saying. Its pointless arguing about this without educating yourself so go do some research or something.
 
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