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[CJY]

Are you saying we’ve found Nemo?

Finding Nemo-quality visuals confirmed!

 

[hyperbertha]

Like Alex Battaglia said, if a game looks better on PS4 than on Xbox One X, then the developer should fix his tools or simply messed up. That will be even more the case if ANY game looks better on PS5 than on XSX. I simply wouldn't count on it. May be a first party game but even then it would look better if it was on XSX.
Not in the same ballpark.

I'm not going to repeat the many arguments in this very thread explaining why what you just said is totally false. But knowing is half the battle. Do the research yourself. You'll find enough information in this very thread.

 

[Dory16]

Is the "lazy devs" excuse gonna make a thundering comeback?

Oh boy, can't wait.

What would you think if a game came out with better raytracing on PS5 than on XSX? Diligent developer? I mean even Cerny is baffled that the PS5 can do RT. Rasterisation is his motto.

 

[Dory16]

I'm not going to repeat the many arguments in this very thread explaining why what you just said is totally false. But knowing is half the battle. Do the research yourself. You'll find enough information in this very thread.

It's false that Battaglia said that or you simply disagree?

 

[CJY]

It's not magical. It's just a revolutionary change in gaming.

Right. Maybe magical is going a bit far... but then I was only 9-10 y/o at the time hehe

 

[Carna]

Gravity Rush (on Vita) felt like a dramatic change from the typical open world game.

 

[hyperbertha]

It's false that Battaglia said that or you simply disagree?

Is Battaglia the guy who said that stuff about procedural in open world games? What else did he say? And please don't tell me its about resolution and framerates.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

What would you think if a game came out with better raytracing on PS5 than on XSX? Diligent developer? I mean even Cerny is baffled that the PS5 can do RT. Rasterisation is his motto.

Like I said, "lazy devs" mentality making a comeback.

It's toxic thinking. Sorry. There are a number of genuine reasons why the final result will make one version look better than the other version. I dunno if it's the increase in green PC gamers in the last 15 years or the rise of armchair experts or what, but consoles regularly punch above their weight, both when compared to PC and when compared to one another, and this has been the case for decades.

 

[Dory16]

Oh look who it is, that stupid fucking fish Dory again.

Hey, it's mister "the XSX will be underpowered because I have 100 GB of RAM in my Mac".
Not seen you much since the PS5 deep dive. Is it because it only has 16 GB of slower RAM than the XSX?
You'll be fine.

 

[Pyramid Song]

Dictator ans Colbert downplaying PS5 as always.

 

[CJY]

Hey, it's mister "the XSX will be underpowered because I have 100 GB of RAM in my Mac".
Not seen you much since the PS5 deep dive. Is it because it only has 16 GB of slower RAM than the XSX?
You'll be fine.

It's 96GB actually. Gotta be accurate now, cos I know how much those tiny differences matter to you.

 

[Dory16]

Like I said, "lazy devs" mentality making a comeback.

It's toxic thinking. Sorry. There are a number of genuine reasons why the final result will make one version look better than the other version. I dunno if it's the increase in green PC gamers in the last 15 years or the rise of armchair experts or what, but consoles regularly punch above their weight, both when compared to PC and when compared to one another, and this has been the case for decades.

If you outrace me in a Punto while I'm driving an A5, I should never race again.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

If you outrace me in a Punto while I'm driving an A5, I should never race again.

Ah, it's always a sign of the conversation drawing down when people break out the car analogies.

If we applied your standard, most devs would've shut their doors long ago.

Theoretical performance is an amusing distraction, but obsessing over it is detrimental to your gaming enjoyment.

 

[Dory16]

Is Battaglia the guy who said that stuff about procedural in open world games? What else did he say? And please don't tell me its about resolution and framerates.

You declared him wrong without knowing what he said?

 

[hyperbertha]

You declared him wrong without knowing what he said?

If its the guy that talked about procedurals he said many things. What is it specifically that you're referring to?

 

[Dory16]

Ah, it's always a sign of the conversation drawing down when people break out the car analogies.

If we applied your standard, most devs would've shut their doors long ago.

Theoretical performance is an amusing distraction, but obsessing over it is detrimental to your gaming enjoyment.

It's not theoretical that the PS5 is incapable of outputting the graphics in resolution and framerates that the XSX can output when running the same code (I'm leaving both SSDs out for a minute). The gap is large enough for me to say that with confidence. And if you could say the opposite with confidence you would. Never mind you, in 2003 when Sony could, it did (aka "the world's most powerful console"). Guess who didn't have a problem with the numbers obsession back then?

 

[Dory16]

You declared him wrong without knowing what he said?

He was baffled that people compare these 2 consoles as if they are close. After the difference that we've seen between the PS4 and the One, I feel the same way. There was only half a dozen of CUs of difference back then.

 

[Goliathy]

Like Alex Battaglia said, if a game looks better on PS4 than on Xbox One X, then the developer should fix his tools or simply messed up. That will be even more the case if ANY game looks better on PS5 than on XSX. I simply wouldn't count on it. May be a first party game but even then it would look better if it was on XSX.
Not in the same ballpark.

I expect a lot of Japanese games to look better on ps5. Lol

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

It's not theoretical that the PS5 is incapable of outputting the graphics in resolution and framerates that the XSX can output when running the same code (I'm leaving both SSDs out for a minute). The gap is large enough for me to say that with confidence. And if you could say the opposite with confidence you would. Never mind you, in 2003 when Sony could, it did (aka "the world's most powerful console"). Guess who didn't have a problem with the numbers obsession back then?

That's not the conversation. You're claiming -- while you openly frame your hypothetical by excluding all factors -- that if things don't look better on XsX then the dev is lazy.

Trash thinking. The end. Certainly devs may be lazy, I'm not denying that can happen, but it stupid to come to that conclusion based on the outcome alone.

I'll use you as an example: you're a letterposter who was too lazy to add an avatar. Therefore, you must be too lazy to put effort into your posts. "Outcome justifies the rationale" is not a logical way of processing the world.

 

[VertigoOA]

Series X is more powerful. Games will look and run better on Series X.

PS5 shills gonna be in the denial stage for quite awhile it seems...

 

[Dory16]

That's not the conversation. You're claiming -- while you openly frame your hypothetical by excluding all factors -- that if things don't look better on XsX then the dev is lazy.

Trash thinking. The end. Certainly devs may be lazy, I'm not denying that can happen, but it stupid to come to that conclusion based on the outcome alone.

I'll use you as an example: you're a letterposter who was too lazy to add an avatar. Therefore, you must be too lazy to put effort into your posts. "Outcome justifies the rationale" is not a logical way of processing the world.

Let me get this right. Using a car analogy was drawing down on the conversation but you referring to my lack of avatar is somehow "sophisticated thinking"?
Rely less on double standards and may be we'll reach a consensus. Thanks.

 

[Dory16]

I expect a lot of Japanese games to look better on ps5. Lol

I do admit I didn't consider patriotic development in my premise

 

[VFXVeteran]

Now we are at movie quality CGI gameplay because of a ssd. People have completly lost their marbles. Get help.

Yea, it's really pathetic what the Sony fans are doing.

For months, and to a greater extent over a year, all I've heard from the Sony camp was how their 13-15TFLOPS PS5 will dwarf the XSX and how it will have faster ray-tracing, yada yada.. very little emphasis on the SSD. And now that their numbers are inferior, they immediately grab their one single advantage, the SSD, and use it to argue hardware superiority over the PC/XSX. And then they fought the exclusives coming to PC tooth and nail only to find out that it IS true and happening and their rebuttal is that "well, it took 3yrs to decide to do so we don't mind games coming out 3yrs later that we don't care about coming to PC.."

The goal post moving is exponentially ridiculous and shows the very nasty attitude of these fans. It's really sad.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Let me get this right. Using a car analogy was drawing down on the conversation but you referring to my lack of avatar is somehow "sophisticated thinking"?
Rely less on double standards and may be we'll reach a consensus. Thanks.

Flew over your head. Maybe nuance is beyond your grasp. Would explain why you used car analogies in the first place.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Yea, it's really pathetic what the Sony fans are doing.

For months, and to a greater extent over a year, all I've heard from the Sony camp was how their 13-15TFLOPS PS5 will dwarf the XSX and how it will have faster ray-tracing, yada yada.. very little emphasis on the SSD. And now that their numbers are inferior, they immediately grab their one single advantage, the SSD, and use it to argue hardware superiority over the PC/XSX. And then they fought the exclusives coming to PC tooth and nail only to find out that it IS true and happening and their rebuttal is that "well, it took 3yrs to decide to do so we don't mind games coming out 3yrs later that we don't care about coming to PC.."

The goal post moving is exponentially ridiculous and shows the very nasty attitude of these fans. It's really sad.

It's even more pathetic how Xbox fans trying to spread FUD how PS5 is 9,2 console and somehow to show with BCPack SSD speed is better than in PS5. Cheers!

 

[hyperbertha]

He was baffled that people compare these 2 consoles as if they are close. After the difference that we've seen between the PS4 and the One, I feel the same way. There was only half a dozen of CUs of difference back then.

so it IS all about resolution and framerate. This time its a 17 percent difference as opposed to 40 percent difference between ps4 and Xboxone. The differences in resolution are going to be minimal enough to mostly make up for with dynamic resolution. I was talking about improvement to visual quality beyond boring stuff like resolution.

 

[devilNprada]

It's not theoretical that the PS5 is incapable of outputting the graphics in resolution and framerates that the XSX can output when running the same code (I'm leaving both SSDs out for a minute)

This is an SSD thread what relevance did this comment have?

 

[Dory16]

Flew over your head. Maybe nuance is beyond your grasp. Would explain why you used car analogies in the first place.

It's not nuance to scream victory in the face of complete defeat. It's dementia. Let's wait for the multiplat that looks better on PS5 than on XSX. The first question will have to be whether YOU had anything to do with the development. Provided you didn't, the next suspects ought to be incompetence or sabotage. And it won't be me claiming it. It will be all the unbiased professional reviewers, like they already do when anything performs better on PS5 Pro than on One X.

 

[SonGoku]

I may be wrong, but a fundamental shift will only be present in 1st or 2nd party games exclusive for the PS5.

Developers will need to consider both XSX and PC architecture when designing games to be released across all platforms - no specific map for PS5.

Even the lower specced SEX SSD solution will enable a fundamental shift in game design, 3rd devs will target the SEX SSD as the base spec for game design and that's fine that's still a massive improvement over what we have today.
The great thing about new console generations is that they introduce a new baseline and raise the minimum/recommend requirements for PC, next gen only AAA games won't target PC's that don't meet the min requirements. Games might still run on those PC but performance or the game not breaking is not guaranteed

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

It's not nuance to scream victory in the face of complete defeat. It's dementia. Let's wait for the multiplat that looks better on PS5 than on XSX. The first question will have to be whether YOU had anything to do with the development. Provided you didn't, the next suspects ought to be incompetence or sabotage.

The only one screaming victory in this exchange is yourself.

And it won't be me claiming it. It will be all the unbiased professional reviewers, like they already do when anything performs better on PS5 Pro than on One X.

Lemme take a swing: if the professional reviewer doesn't give XsX the nod, they're biased too?

"Lazy devs" + "biased reviewers" gee we're right back in the good ol' days of 360 vs PS3.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Developers, Digital Foundry etc are all saying it will help with graphics and gameplay.

And it seems like the only people who saying it won't are people on message boards who know nothing about game design.

Yes, many people on here are developers, but we have more than enough information that proves how it will change gameplay.

Data is stream from the SSD to the RAM.
Data is also stream from the HDD to the RAM on current gen consoles.

Faster stream = better quality assets.

Star Citizen lags while playing on a HDD because it's still loading assets. This lag pretty much does not happen when using a SSD.

Faster stream = faster travel

Horizon Zero Dawn developers said before (which I'm sure people mentioned here before) that they wanted to add flight to the gameplay, but they were limited to the slow storage speed.


If you can load high quality assets in an instant vs when you cannot (regular HDD) then it will improve graphics. Faster speed = faster asset streaming.

This is objectively false.

Quality assets bog down rendering performance. Quantity of assets are affected by the speed throughput of the I/O system but definitely not quality.

If your GPU is too slow to render 1 billion triangles all casting rays into the scene for ray-traced lighting, the SSD can move the triangles to the GPU, but then the slow GPU will take forever rendering those triangles within a given frame.

 

[hyperbertha]

Even the lower specced SEX SSD solution will enable a fundamental shift in game design, 3rd devs will target the SEX SSD as the base spec for game design and that's fine that's still a massive improvement over what we have today.

The great thing about new console generations is that they introduce a new baseline and raise the minimum/recommend requirements for PC, next gen only AAA games won't target lower specced PC's

Third party devs optimize seperately for each console. They are very likely to make use of Ps5's extra 6Gb's of capacity unless they are quite lazy, since its not much extra work to scale up asset quality and data streaming code.

 

[Dory16]

so it IS all about resolution and framerate. This time its a 17 percent difference as opposed to 40 percent difference between ps4 and Xboxone. The differences in resolution are going to be minimal enough to mostly make up for with dynamic resolution. I was talking about improvement to visual quality beyond boring stuff like resolution.

What's bigger, 17% of 100 40% of 25? (Just curious, because the XSX is at least 4 times more powerful than the One).
The absolute difference is more powerful than a PS4, mate. That's how much more compute power you have in one of the products and you are here comparing them as if it was close. I would find a more dignified battle to fight.

 

[tryDEATH]

How are SSDs going to change non-Open world games, except for the loading time?

Based on the most popular and common video games out right now there won't be much difference between the XSX SSD or the PS5 SSD. You start getting diminishing returns very quickly due to how much necessary data needs to be loaded. The PS5 SSD simple over exceeds requirements.

FPS games like COD/BF/R6S/Overwatch that fall into traditional arena MP games simply don't require the speeds PS5 offers. The same can be said for fighting games such as Street Fighter/Tekken/Mortal Kombat/Various Anime variants, or track racing games such as Forza Motorsport/Gran Turismo/F1/Assetto Corsa which will benefit from VRS significantly and are more CPU bound due to physics all the way down to the most popular sport games like FIFA/PES/NBA 2k/Madden games.

These games simply aren't going to be revolutionized by a PS5 SSD the returns are going to be better than the XSX SSD, but it will negligible in a large majority of games I listed, which happens to cover around 75%+ of all game developed. All of those games above had a CPU/GPU bottleneck not an asset streaming problem which SSD's will address.

Edit: Miss typed GPU wasn't meant to be included.

 

[Goliathy]

a swing: if the professional reviewer doesn't give XsX the nod, they're biased too?

To be fair, after the ps5 reveal we have seen a lot of journalists desperately trying to defend Sony.
Nothing like that has been seen after the Xbox one reveal back then.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

To be fair, after the ps5 reveal we have seen a lot of journalists desperately trying to defend Sony.
Nothing like that has been seen after the Xbox one reveal back then.

Non-sequitur. I'm aware there are fanboys on Both Sides™.

 

[hyperbertha]

What's bigger, 17% of 100 40% of 25? (Just curious, because the XSX is at least 4 times more powerful than the One).
The absolute difference is more powerful than a PS4, mate. That's how much more compute power you have in one of the products and you are here comparing them as if it was close. I would find a more dignified battle to fight.

In this case, its relative capacity that matters more in terms of visually perceivable differences. Ps5 will need to drop to 1800p were xbox can maintain 4k. This much is true. But not much of a problem. I already said I wasn't talking about trivial stuff like resolution. The PC can already do resolution way better than either console can. You can get more of a visual upgrade addressing other bottlenecks than pure TFLOP. I'm not going to bother with this again. Read some of the other posts in this thread or do some actual research to know more.

 

[hyperbertha]

Based on the most popular and common video games out right now there won't be much difference between the XSX SSD or the PS5 SSD. You start getting diminishing returns very quickly due to how much necessary data needs to be loaded. The PS5 SSD simple over exceeds requirements.

FPS games like COD/BF/R6S/Overwatch that fall into traditional arena MP games simply don't require the speeds PS5 offers. The same can be said for fighting games such as Street Fighter/Tekken/Mortal Kombat/Various Anime variants, or track racing games such as Forza Motorsport/Gran Turismo/F1/Assetto Corsa which will benefit from VRS significantly and are more CPU bound due to physics all the way down to the most popular sport games like FIFA/PES/NBA 2k/Madden games.

These games simply aren't going to be revolutionized by a PS5 SSD the returns are going to be better than the XSX SSD, but it will negligible in a large majority of games I listed, which happens to cover around 75%+ of all game developed. All of those games above had a CPU/GPU bottleneck not an asset streaming problem which SSD's will address.

You mentioned all those games had a GPU bottleneck. In what way? Genuinely curious. Please don't say resolution.

 

[Deto]

To be fair, after the ps5 reveal we have seen a lot of journalists desperately trying to defend Sony.
Nothing like that has been seen after the Xbox one reveal back then.

- TVTVTVTVTV SPORS
- Don't have internet? buy an x360
- More expensive and weaker
- No used games

You can list the problems of the PS5, I want to compare.

 

[Dory16]

In this case, its relative capacity that matters more in terms of visually perceivable differences. Ps5 will need to drop to 1800p were xbox can maintain 4k. This much is true. But not much of a problem. I already said I wasn't talking about trivial stuff like resolution. The PC can already do resolution way better than either console can. You can get more of a visual upgrade addressing other bottlenecks than pure TFLOP. I'm not going to bother with this again. Read some of the other posts in this thread or do some actual research to know more.

You're sending me to learn some new maths just because Sony developed the weaker console. i don't need to research that. Everyone not spiritually committed to a brand of plastic maker knows it. It will be quicker if YOU just exit denial.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

If it doesn't it's because of parity with the much slower XSX SSD.

 

[Dory16]

You mentioned all those games had a GPU bottleneck. In what way? Genuinely curious. Please don't say resolution.

Funny how little resolution matters these days. It used to be the main argument for determining the multiplat console of choice. How times change.

 

[hyperbertha]

You're sending me to learn some new maths just because Sony developed the weaker console. i don't need to research that. Everyone not spiritually committed to a brand of plastic maker knows it. It will be quicker if YOU just exit denial.

ah the usual routine of ignoring actual arguments while parroting non factors. Do you know what dynamic resolution is? I bet you don't.

Funny how little resolution matters these days. It used to be the main argument for determining the multiplat console of choice. How times change.

720p to 1080p was quite noticeable. But this time both consoles are 4k and will stay near to it. So I don't think how it factors into this discussion at all.

 

[SonGoku]

Third party devs optimize seperately for each console. They are very likely to make use of Ps5's extra 6Gb's of capacity unless they are quite lazy, since its not much extra work to scale up asset quality and data streaming code.

To an extent yes, but the game design and vision must be the same across platforms so they won't exploit the PS5 SSD to its fullest
PS5 might benefit from less/no pop in, or higher LODs maybe even better draw distances but the last one is dependent on GPU/CPU resources as well

 

[hyperbertha]

To an extent yes, but the game design and vision must be the same across platforms so they won't exploit the PS5 SSD to its fullest
PS5 might benefit from less/no pop in, or higher LODs maybe even better draw distances but the last one is dependent on GPU/CPU resources as well

You mean asset quality?

 

[Dory16]

ah the usual routine of ignoring actual arguments while parroting non factors. Do you know what dynamic resolution is? I bet you don't.

In the case of the PS5, dynamic resolution won't be a choice. With those variable clocks, it is implicitly designed for fluctuating performance. You speak of dynamic resolution as if it was just an option when the architect of the box says he "expects" the GPU to be at peak performance "most of the time".

 

[hyperbertha]

In the case of the PS5, dynamic resolution won't be a choice. With those variable clocks, it is implicitly designed for fluctuating performance. You speak of dynamic resolution as if it was just an option when the architect of the box says he "expects" the GPU to be at peak performance "most of the time".

Their are multiple sources that claim dynamic resolution is a perfect choice for ps5. And I don't see how the GPU being slightly fluctuating makes dynamic resolution not possible.

 

[Jigsaah]

WHOOOO CARRRRRRRRRESS!?

Just gimme the got damn system and the games!

 

[Dory16]

Their are multiple sources that claim dynamic resolution is a perfect choice for ps5. And I don't see how the GPU being slightly fluctuating makes dynamic resolution not possible.

You got me wrong. I meant that dynamic resolution will not just be a choice but the only possibility because developers cannot count on stable processor clocks. P.S: That's not a good thing

 

[TBiddy]

Latching on to non truths to divert the argument I see. This desperate to keep hold of an argument? SSDs will bring us much closer to movie quality than a couple teraflops. And its not 'trivial'. Saying 'it just gives bigger openworlds' is ample proof you have no idea as to what you are talking about.

I see you're restorting to strawmen now. I've never said it's "just bigger open worlds" - here's the quote for you, again: "Yes, sure, games will load faster, games will have bigger maps and such".

You said yourself that the SSD in the PS5 will provide movie quality CGI. You later reversed on that, which is understandable since it's complete gibberish. After that, you start attacking me telling me to "research" and that I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Then you set up a strawman, and you still have the nerve to call me desperate.

Jesus fucking christ.