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[Bo_Hazem]

I'm a PS sucker and you know it, but that seems a freaking wild assumption, put it in a zoo.

PS5 will sell below 80 million mark as well. This new gen doesn't appreciate consoles, and phones are getting serious with their generic shit.

 

[Metroiddarks]

So even an i7-9700k or i7-9900k wouldn't be enough?

Those are different and upper any console even 9700k can defeat both using raw power, I just tell you to wait because when a problem start a similar CPU will be cheaper

 

[saintjules]

Xbox Series X Confirmed to Have Dedicated Audio Chip; Sound Developers “Won’t Have to Fight Programmers and Artists for Memory and CPU Power.”

Xbox Series X Confirmed to Have Dedicated Audio Chip; Sound Developers "Won't Have to Fight Programmers and Artists for Memory and CPU Power.”

According to Ninja Theory senior sound designer Daniele Galante, the Xbox Series X will have a dedicated audio chip that will help sound designers considerably

wccftech.com

Always feels like Sony and Microsoft are next to each other in their own rooms, listening to what each other on what they're doing. What are the chances of the coincidence regarding audio here?

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

PS5 will sell below 80 million mark as well. This new gen doesn't appreciate consoles, and phones are getting serious with their generic shit.

It's the same thing that a lot of people said this gen, remember?
Consoles are dead bro.
Next gen already old.
Even Nintendo flopped.
7 years later: PS4 is the second best selling console ever, Switch prints money, PC market doing fine, Sony presenting a logo gets millions of views, both Sony and MS investing more money than ever in the gaming divisions, tons of indies, Xbox still sucks hard.
Everything perfect.

 

[Metroiddarks]

It's the same thing that a lot of people said this gen, remember?
Consoles are dead bro.
Next gen already old.
Even Nintendo flopped.
7 years later: PS4 is the second best selling console ever, Switch prints money, PC market doing fine, Sony presenting a logo gets millions of views, both Sony and MS investing more money than ever in the gaming divisions, tons of indies, Xbox still sucks hard.
Everything perfect.

Also I remember:
-The games now be only for smartphones
-Bro Nintendo is dead
-You will see how with Xbox one x and the gamepass they will recover the crown in sales
-The single players games are dead
-Stadia will destroy the consoles

 

[StreetsofBeige]

PS5 will sell below 80 million mark as well. This new gen doesn't appreciate consoles, and phones are getting serious with their generic shit.

Could be. Ballmark numbers. And it gets muddy sometimes as handhelds don't perfectly flow with consoles dates, but close enough.

Last gen was insane. Consoles and handhelds sold like hotcakes. Even if you take away Wii as some people say it was a fad product, it's still more than other generations.

The trend down might continue.

Early 2000s era
Consoles 210M
Handhelds 80M
Total 290M

PS2 150M
Xbox 25M
GC 25M
DC 10M

GBA 80M


360/PS3/Wii era
Consoles 270M
Handhelds 230M
Total 500M

Wii 100M
PS3 85M
360 85M

NDS 150M
PSP 80M


Current era
Consoles 215M (if you include Switch here)
Handhelds 90M
Total 305M

PS4 100M
Xbox 50M
Switch 50M
Wii U 15M

3DS 75 M
Vita 15M

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Could be. Ballmark numbers. And it gets muddy sometimes as handhelds don't perfectly flow with consoles dates, but close enough.

Last gen was insane. Consoles and handhelds sold like hotcakes. Even if you take away Wii as some people say it was a fad product, it's still more than other generations.

The trend down might continue.

Early 2000s era
Consoles 210M
Handhelds 80M
Total 290M

PS2 150M
Xbox 25M
GC 25M
DC 10M

GBA 80M


360/PS3/Wii era
Consoles 270M
Handhelds 230M
Total 500M

Wii 100M
PS3 85M
360 85M

NDS 150M
PSP 80M


Current era
Consoles 215M (if you include Switch here)
Handhelds 90M
Total 305M

PS4 100M
Xbox 50M
Switch 50M
Wii U 15M

3DS 75 M
Vita 15M

Well you can argue both Vita and Wii U were not adeguate on the long term. If both got things right at the start, Switch would have been on par with PS4 (which is likely more 110 at this point) and Vita would have seller at least some more, like PSP did despite the DS competition.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Also I remember:
-The games now be only for smartphones
-Bro Nintendo is dead
-You will see how with Xbox one x and the gamepass they will recover the crown in sales
-The single players games are dead
-Stadia will destroy the consoles

Yeah it is what I meant with Nintendo flopped.
But Stadia...

Daaaaamn

 

[CJY]

I'm framing this as a statement, but it's actually more of a question...

Xbox One X sold poorly and didn't really move the needle with 40% more power than PS4 Pro. So I don't see how they will be able to close the gap next gen either. Didn't MS also say they are eliminating the concept of "generations"? If they're also doing lockhart, it seems ~30m units of XSX sold would be a huge number for them considering their strategy of bringing Xbox to a wider demographic and not focusing everything on a single next-gen machine.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Those are different and upper any console even 9700k can defeat both using raw power, I just tell you to wait because when a problem start a similar CPU will be cheaper

How will Zen 3 compare to the i7-9000 series?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Always feels like Sony and Microsoft are next to each other in their own rooms, listening to what each other on what they're doing. What are the chances of the coincidence regarding audio here?

I don't wanna have Mark Cerny as a neighbor, he's a creep. You would need a fart-silencer as well.

 

[sonomamashine]

That's why you need to balance out your anecdotal perspective with the larger market one. Your hang-ups are from a personal POV which certainly has value, but at least from what I've seen, some of it is based on misintepretation. You mention the 18% flops thing for starters; well at least now people seem to finally be over the TF hump, but instead of balancing that out, there's a lot of certain people trying to make TF completely irrelevant now. That's just them going from one extreme to the other extreme, dumb decision in both cases. TFs alone don't make a system better or worst than the other, but thinking it's only going to be used for prettier graphics is a pretty bad misinterpetation IMHO. We've already seen this gen that isn't strictly the case and current-gen was hamstrung by shitty CPUs. That increases the scope of GPGPU for next gen by magnitudes.

The Mac Pro thing, again that's a personal POV but you have to understand that isn't the case for a lot of people and some just don't WANT to play games on their laptop or PC. Even if I had a PC rig that could run circles around next-gen, I'd still be interested in picking both systems up because if I'm using my PC for productivity work the majority of the day, I don't want to ALSO unwind and try chilling on that same PC to play games after spending hours working on it. Taking my play to the living room, lounging on a couch, kicking my feet up there and having a big screen to game on (or watch movies on) is a much better gaming experience to me versus doing everything on PC. Your perspective in that regard is probably not aligned with the majority; again it doesn't mean it's invalid. But the proportion is what it is and it's always worth considering.

My point about MS and Sony competing in PC space isn't ludicrous; you missed my entire point. I was implying that Sony's reason for shifting towards that space as another market segment (that doesn't have to come at the expense of the console market, btw) has more to do with them future-proofing their market possibilities. Look, home consoles as we know them now won't be around forever, except perhaps with Nintendo, and even they're more interested in the hybrid stuff now. Entertainment markets are converging into more and more shared ecosystems, and with entertainment options ballooning, companies have to compete against more options than they did in the past.

Sony has a history as a strong consumer electronics company but the markets for dedicated electronics they built their reputation on are shrinking, some have for a long time now. Those markets, like CD players (Walkman), televisions (Trinitron) etc. are still important markets but the gulf in the amount of quality and features you'd get from low-end brands back in the day compared to the upper-tier brands has basically reached the point of diminished returns for the majority of mainstream consumers. There used to be a time the average person wouldn't dare want to pick up a cheapo 3rd-rate television from the '90s over a Sony, JVC, Hitachi etc. TV. Nowadays you've got no-name 4K brands who can offer the same tech and features (for the most part) as the similarly-priced premier-brand sets, and the level of quality, features etc. to the average mainstream consumer means they're almost just as likely to pick that no-name brand over an established one. It doesn't even matter to a lot of them if the no-name brand is less reliable, because with how commonplace budget-shopping trends have become most people buy new TVs out of habit on Black Friday or Christmas holiday even if they don't NEED a new TV!

That's something Sony or MS don't want to get stuck with when it comes to console gaming; a future where the abilities of a relatively top-end gaming system can be had in commodity systems, phones etc. by less-established brands but wherein the performance delta between their offerings and Sony's or MS's is so small to the average consumer that they just go with which one can offer it cheaper. We already know the smartphone gaming market trumps the console gaming one by a considerable amount; if and when smartphone makers like Apple can manage to squeeze power into their devices that can match a home console, and standardize console-style controls, that's when shit get real for guys like Microsoft and Sony. Why do you think MS mentioned Google and Amazon as potential competitors? Why do you think Apple has Apple Arcade? Do you not think these smartphone companies are looking at stuff like the Switch and seeing how they can emulate that in their own space to offer competitor products?

Point is, Sony, MS and even Nintendo have to compete with more than just themselves these days. Back in the '90s and '00s entertainment markets as a whole were more divergent or "stayed in their own lane", so to speak. They still competed with each other against consumers for their entertainment dollars but nowhere near the level it is today, because the lack of mainstream internet or having TONS of entertainment options both available to them (or produced; costs of production and free/middleware solutions have made production of entertainment cheaper and easier than ever) acted as safeguards. Those are mostly gone now, and that's even before I get into the crossover effect (i.e there was less general crossover of industries as a whole back then, say gaming and film for example. You had your usual licensed games (most of them sucked) and a few actors (B/C/D-tier ones) in games but that was about it).

Microsoft doesn't want to find themselves in that kind of position, no company does. So it makes sense to build towards a future where if market conditions drastically change (and trends indicate such coming along the way), they are ready to quickly respond and adjust. Sony is just as interested in securing their long-term future as well, THAT's why I'm saying they are doing a lot of the same things as MS, just less so due to being a bit further behind the 8-ball and other factors. It wasn't me trying to paint them with a broad brush as if to besmirch them. I'm just talking wider, long-term market possibilities and realities.

This upcoming gen might be the last one we get before the rate of technological development and costs for R&D, production, marketing etc. of a console (plus the standardization of architectural specifications across sectors of consumer tech industries) reach a convergence point where the barrier to entry opens things up for a lot of other players, including big players like Apple or Google. We can laugh at Stadia right now; it's garbage in its current form. But we know where it can lead to and that's the part companies like MS (and yes, Sony) are being mindful of.

I think you're being a bit naive to take everything someone like Herman Hurst says upfront; look at the actions and not the words. I mentioned God of War 4 for a reason; it's had info altered on its site the same way Horizon did before that got confirmed for PC. Death Stranding (strongly associated with Sony and PS as pretty much a 1st-party title) got a PC release confirmed before the PS4 version even came out. Games like Dreams might be making their way to PC, and we already know Sony will probably be using Azure servers in some capacity the next few years. You can call that "hedging their bets" and that's well and good, because they are. But whatever distinction you think there is between them "hedging bets" and MS trying to "save face" or go all in while treating consoles as an afterthought, well you've already mentioned yourself you have a bias, and you've probably mixed that up with misinterpetation of some things that have been said by both companies.

And I hope everything I'm saying isn't taken the wrong way. Some people'll probably see everything I've written here and think I'm trying to push support for one brand over another or whatever. Neither MS or Sony are lining my pockets so I could care less if whatever I say is for or against certain ideas or actions around them. But I like this kind of speculation a lot, same with console specs as a whole, and I just have a habit of writing a lot. But while you might have your bias for Sony this gen and my preference (in terms of which one I'm getting out of the gate) is mostly neutral but leaning towards XSX, I just have to scratch my head when people keep trying to tell themselves these two companies are wildly different from each other in terms of their end-goal in pursuing GaaS and cloud initiatives, and a more platform-agnostic model. They're more alike in those goals for their gaming efforts than some would like to admit; the difference is with MS being mostly driven by productivity and services software, the gaming stuff happens to be more obviously tied into it. Outside of gaming software and some PC productivity stuff (music creator stuff, etc.), Sony isn't really "driven" by software, so they have more leeway in how that type of stuff can be messaged alongside general PS developments.

It's down mostly to image of perception where people think the end-goals in each one's gaming divisions differ, but that perception isn't as true as some would like to think. And for those who don't want to acknowledge such, they are basically (usually) paranoid about the end-goal down to misunderstanding and fear of the shift, because they think it will automatically entail a replacement, rather than an additive to what we are already used to. It CAN be additive and whichever company does that will be better positioned going forward. Right now, MS seems like that company out of the two, but we'll see where Sony is in that regard in a couple more years.



PS5 is only getting haptic feedback now; MS had haptic feedback in XBO controller in 2013. It was simply under-utilized.

Cell was a technological dead-end that costed Sony all PS1 and PS2 profits; it's work with SPEs was helpful with multi-core processor development but Cell as its whole technological self never materialized to the level its investors wanted. It also wasn't JUST a Sony thing: IBM and Toshiba were just as involved and IBM honestly pushed development further than Sony did (they supported iterative development on Cell longer than Sony, up to even early years of PS4).

Blu-Ray was similarly a mutli-company effort. Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic etc. were ALL involved in its development, that's why the Blu Ray Disc Association exists. Sony helped it proliferate with PS3, but they were hardly the only ones who developed the tech.

The Ace engines were not actually exclusive to PS4; at pretty much the same time it was released, the RX 290X, which also featured Ace engines, launched. So it's debatable how much of that was due to Sony designing them themselves and working with AMD to put in, or if the Ace engines were already a part of AMD's roadmap at the time Sony leveraged them for inclusion in PS4. Going by what we're seeing from them and MS this gen regarding RDNA2, the latter was the more probable scenario.

Now I'm not taking anything away from what Sony did with PS3 and PS4, and they have done a lot of neat things with PS5's SSD and audio. But we also don't know all of the details on both systems in terms of how this stuff really works, and what potential specific benefits and disadvantages they could bring. And at least from what we've seen so far it's not like MS's audio is any slouch, either; the two seem at least even on that note, and their SSD seems to have a lot of the same features as Sony's though it's over 2x slower in actual hardware terms (and probably has less flash channels as well for number of chips).

I could go on to clarify your other point, but I'm running out of time to post for now. Maybe might edit later.



I agree, they maximized the shit out of that GPU chip by pushing the clocks as high they have, that's impressive. But I think people need to be more realistic about performance metrics between the two. Overall they should perform mostly on par, but we also know typical 3rd-party titles usually don't utilize very specific advantages of hardware unless they have a true need to (either it's a 3rd-party exclusive, timed-exclusive, etc.).

There will be, even in third-party titles (some at least) areas where PS5's advantages give it an edge here or there, and other areas where XXS's advantage will give it the edge. I've been calculating a lot of numbers on known info for both systems so far and have come to some interesting conclusions for the both of them, but I'm not finished with that yet. Anyway, yes we also know that it has the very good SSD that will be uitlized by 1st-party devs in particular, but XSX has a raw GPU advantage where it will have a big lead in GPGPU compute tasks for non-graphics code, that IMHO will bring bigger game design shifts than simply the SSDs.

It's a case though where both systems can essentially leverage advantages that the other has the strength in (PS5 - SSD, XSX - GPGPU compute), they just have to sacrifice in a few other things to do so (PS5 - graphics fidelity, XSX - GPGPU compute (might have to use parts of that to make up for slower SSD). Just very vague and general situations on my end, but something I've been thinking will be defining cases from the 1st-party between the two.

Anyway that's all I can post for now, I typed WAY more than anticipated xD.

Lol that must be the longest post in Gaf that i didn't read

 

[3liteDragon]

Btw, we are way overdue for a story trailer for The Last of Us Part 2, I’m expecting Naughty Dog to drop something within the next 2-3 weeks.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Facts and it’s one of the reasons I feel that this gen was the worst generation for Ms to drop the ball on. With the advent of digital sales and services, both companies are making money hand over fist right now. The only issue is that Sony is printing money while also selling 106+ million units of the PS4. That is a lot of potential PS5 customers, moreso if they have spent money and are embedded in the PS ecosystem. So now MS has to play the game of trying to convince these people to leave PS5 and go to XSX and basically restart. The chances of this happening are slim, so MS decides they also want to go in the direction of PC gamers in hopes to grab an additional revenue stream. I’m not so naive and a fanboy to think that PS5 is going to dominate like the PS4 did this gen. It’s going to be a lot closer. At the same time, it’s going to be an uphill battle for MS to regain that kind of market share even with the “stronger” console.

I don’t know if they’ll regain share, but they could expand the market. For me it depends how much RT Minecraft broadens the appeal of consoles. Minecraft players that aren’t console aware will start seeing all the tutorials on youtube with RT and probably want the game to look like that when they play, like comparing C64 to Amiga graphics. If the tech specs to run a Windows store version need a £250 graphics card for RT, it will be very easy to push an XsX to those non-console gamers as the simple option. They might end up buying it on PS5 instead, but the vast majority finding it through the windows store are likely to be herded towards the XsX.

 

[Metroiddarks]

How will Zen 3 compare to the i7-9000 series?

We dont' know Zen 3 should be release until the second part of the year I think will be a higher in IPC.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

We dont' know Zen 3 should be release until the second part of the year I think will be a higher in IPC.

I can't believe that we're living in a time when AMD's CPUs are outperforming Intel's CPUs. Wow.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

I don't wanna have Mark Cerny as a neighbor, he's a creep. You would need a fart-silencer as well.

Ma Cerny eye of the tiger.

I don’t know if they’ll regain share, but they could expand the market. For me it depends how much RT Minecraft broadens the appeal of consoles. Minecraft players that aren’t console aware will start seeing all the tutorials on youtube with RT and probably want the game to look like that when they play, like comparing C64 to Amiga graphics. If the tech specs to run a Windows store version need a £250 graphics card for RT, it will be very easy to push an XsX to those non-console gamers as the simple option. They might end up buying it on PS5 instead, but the vast majority finding it through the windows store are likely to be herded towards the XsX.

At the end of the day, guess what, GAMES. To console gamers, Xbox exclusives on PCs does not even exists, because they want to play on consoles, or at least for a big chunck of them I think is like this. I never agreed that consoles gamers can go on PCs and viceversa so easily, different ambients.
Maybe it's not enough for PS Users now to come back entirely to Xbox but they could buy SeX along with PS5, while new people (like kids) that doesn't like PCs could buy only SeX because gamepass and, again, exclusives. But we need to know how good the games are, and how One is gonna affect them.
Marketing wise they seems committed, at least they do not talk about TVs and stay simple showing games and features run. So I expect them to perform better than before, even if they have a looong run to make actual competition to Sony, the latter needs to suck big time like with PS3 but at the very least now the launch it's at the same time.

 

[DForce]

Btw, we are way overdue for a story trailer for The Last of Us Part 2, I’m expecting Naughty Dog to drop something within the next 2-3 weeks.

I think we're going to see a strong marketing push starting next month.

April
Final Fantasy 7

Late April - May
The Last of Us 2


Mid May - June
Ghost of Tsushima

June - November
PlayStation 5
Unannounced launch titles

I just hope TLOU 2 didn't get delayed due to the corona virus. If not, then I the game should be going gold soon.

 

[Trainsmove]

Actually no, it's the contrary. On XBX some of the streaming (particularly the Velocity architecture that run with software API: DirectStorage API and SFS) will need to be taken care by the CPU or GPU, because it's a software API, so more bandwidth is going to be used for that and more contention (so it will reduce global BW) because the CPU have access to the slow ram and limit the speed of the whole pool.

On PS5 the data will directly arrive on the ram with minimum bandiwdth used (no multiple CPU I/O jobs) and low contention with CPU and GPU because it will be some big chunks of data.

Specs of both machines need to be taken care as a whole. And as a whole apparently for many developers both machines are really close somehow and some devs expect the resolution will be often identical on both machines.

This is not true disregard anything he just said. This was addressed by the lead architect of xbox series X, Who said that they have dedicated hardware. Watch the extended Steve Austin interview with the architect and/or didrie foundry.

 

[kyliethicc]

I don't wanna have Mark Cerny as a neighbor, he's a creep. You would need a fart-silencer as well.

Don’t talk shit about Mark Cerny. Respect OG

 

[lepermessiah]

"largely neglible drop in res"

Doom Eternal in noticeable more blurry on PS4 Pro than on Xbox One X.



Mostly because 1800p is much better to upscale to 4k than 1440p (60% more pixels)

Such a quantum leap in blurriness , makes it sound like the visuals become water colour. Given the delta I expect more than that lmao

 

[Metroiddarks]

Such a quantum leap in blurriness , makes it sound like the visuals become water colour. Given the delta I expect more than that lmao

Yeah from 50% of delta in GPU, now the delta is even less than exist between ps4 and xbox one.

I have my a xbox one and for me is no funny how the studios just dont care the optimization for that console, I just dont will buy a xbox one x
just for the third parties and wait to have 1 good game from first parties.

 

[Deeper Underground]

"largely neglible drop in res"

Doom Eternal in noticeable more blurry on PS4 Pro than on Xbox One X.



Mostly because 1800p is much better to upscale to 4k than 1440p (60% more pixels)

“Noticeably more blurry”. I watched this video on my 60” 4K TV and barely saw a difference between 1X and Pro while sitting like 6-7 feet away Lol. If I could barely notice a difference, what do you think is going to happen to Johnny Public when he tries to see the difference between XSX and 5, which is performance wise, smaller than Pro and 1X? Come on man.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Your post is INANELY good by the way, but I couldn't continue as I felt seasick It's a pretty overview to the market as a whole and if Sony's succeeding in some shrinking markets like Camera market, TV's, high quality music players, etc to be good enough. It's true, but that's why I love Sony, everyone counts to them, and they always push until they gain their ground again.

They've made an impressive comeback with their TV's, their cameras are the pinnacle after dethroning Canon and Nikon from decades of dominance, their phones are struggling but it'll work out if they keep going, especially with their insane Xperia 1ii Pro that can work for professionals and TV channels as an antenna.

Sony has passion, and I simply love it.

But Microsoft...

I'm not really talking in terms of quality or features and what objective/subjective views a person can have on them who happens to be an enthusiast. You, I take are an enthusiast of sorts with electronics, so certain features and small edges here and there are going to stand out to you.

But to the wider market, it's literally more down to what the price provides and how cheap it can get, because in terms of important features that "get the job done", even the C-tier brands offer it nowadays. It's not like in the past where the difference between top-line and no-name brands was night and day.

I wasn't really saying anything about Sony's product quality personally; I'm not as enthused on their electronics line as you are, but I know they several high-quality products out there. It's just that to the average consumer, unless those products have a really strong brand identity to them, they won't care about them to the point of buying in massive droves, or to pay particular note to their specific advantages and buy them for those (maybe tech enthusiasts or professionals in certain fields would consider doing such, however). For the wider market, it comes down to what products deliver the big important features, and if they're affordable enough.

And that's an area where a lot of lower-tier and no-name brands can offer competitive products. At some point, that'll probably happen with gaming especially if things streamline and improve even further in areas like cloud gaming, smartphone gaming, commodity PC systems, STBs etc. That'll bring more competition both directly and indirectly, and you'll see dedicated home gaming consoles pushed to smaller margins as more niche products.

But, at the end of the day, just wanted to use that as a point in a (lot more) points addressing what CJY mentioned, even if it got a bit wordy (it's kind of a loaded topic by nature tho tbh).

 

[devilNprada]

So why even wasting your time quoting me? Move on dude.

you sir are hostile and defensive without cause... I am sorry you took in in a negative way.
Gotta love people who go to forums just to fight.

 

[Grinchy]

I feel like Sony and MS should time out their pre-orders for a few weeks from now, when everyone gets their free Trump bucks. Imagine being able to completely pay off the system and still have 700ish Trumpbux leftover, with the guarantee of having the console fully paid off. I have to imagine lots of people would do exactly that.

 

[Apollo Helios]

Watch this all you PS fuckboys. Tons of interesting info about PS5.

This dude just wasted half and hour of my life. There was nothing there not even any juicy insider speculation stuff, just boring ass half an hour recap.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

I feel like Sony and MS should time out their pre-orders for a few weeks from now, when everyone gets their free Trump bucks. Imagine being able to completely pay off the system and still have 700ish Trumpbux leftover, with the guarantee of having the console fully paid off. I have to imagine lots of people would do exactly that.

It would be unethical to use those funds to purchase a gaming console. C'mon, now.

 

[Rolling_Start]

When you say that an upgraded CPU would run into hitches and performance degrading security patches, are you referring to the i7-6800k or the i7-9000 series? Not even an i7-9000 series CPU would be good enough? Also, why are 12 or 16 cores necessary, when the processors in the PS5 and XSX have only 8 cores? 12 or 16 core processors would be able to run 24 or 32 threads with hyperthreading, which is more than the 16 threads that the processors in the PS5 and XSX can process.

[Well I'm only going off what I *think* will happen, so I can't claim that this is how things *will* pan out. It's just what I think is most likely based on what we've seen.]

All current Intel CPUs have security flaws that require performance degrading microcode patches. Even if you don't update your bios, eventually these will work their way into Windows updates (and that is a good thing!). The nature of the PC also means that there can be occasional processes or apps that might interrupt performance. Some extra cores or frequency headroom will always be a good thing to minimise the effects of these things.

But if you want to maximise the PC's performance leadership over consoles it's likely that you'll want more cores and threads than the consoles have.

A 7 physical core / 14 thread (one reserved core, remember!) console game should perform better running on a similar 14 physical core CPU of higher frequency because all the processing resources are greater (execution units, registers, cache, frequncy etc).

And there are types of hardware decompression in XSX and PS5 that if you try and run in software on PC will require CPU time - which would fit well with additional cores. And it's possible such decompression systems will come in some form to PC.

So you might not be just looking at matching the workloads on console CPUs, but also additional workloads that on PC require additional CPU time / cores to resolve (oh, forgot about audio too).

If you have lots of cores, lots of frequency, lots of ram, and lots of bandwidth (SSD / fast DDR4 or DDR5) you cover all the bases.

But we don't know exactly how things will turn out yet. So it's okay to wait, especially if in the mean time your current system should gracefully manage cross gen games!

 

[Grinchy]

It would be unethical to use those funds to purchase a gaming console. C'mon, now.

I dunno. You're supposed to spend it. And if you aren't hurting for food money, why would it be better spent elsewhere? It's a stimulus for the economy.

It would be smarter if everyone just saved it or paid down any debt, but that isn't the economic kickstart it's supposed to be for.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

[Well I'm only going off what I *think* will happen, so I can't claim that this is how things *will* pan out. It's just what I think is most likely based on what we've seen.]

All current Intel CPUs have security flaws that require performance degrading microcode patches. Even if you don't update your bios, eventually these will work their way into Windows updates (and that is a good thing!). The nature of the PC also means that there can be occasional processes or apps that might interrupt performance. Some extra cores or frequency headroom will always be a good thing to minimise the effects of these things.

But if you want to maximise the PC's performance leadership over consoles it's likely that you'll want more cores and threads than the consoles have.

A 7 physical core / 14 thread (one reserved core, remember!) console game should perform better running on a similar 14 physical core CPU of higher frequency because all the processing resources are greater (execution units, registers, cache, frequncy etc).

And there are types of hardware decompression in XSX and PS5 that if you try and run in software on PC will require CPU time - which would fit well with additional cores. And it's possible such decompression systems will come in some form to PC.

So you might not be just looking at matching the workloads on console CPUs, but also additional workloads that on PC require additional CPU time / cores to resolve (oh, forgot about audio too).

If you have lots of cores, lots of frequency, lots of ram, and lots of bandwidth (SSD / fast DDR4 or DDR5) you cover all the bases.

But we don't know exactly how things will turn out yet. So it's okay to wait, especially if in the mean time your current system should gracefully manage cross gen games!

I'm going to wait until Intel's and AMD's next generation of CPUs before I upgrade. However, I'm just curious about the i7-6950x (10 cores, 20 threads). How would it fair against the upcoming consoles' CPUs?

 

[SonGoku]

This dude just wasted half and hour of my life. There was nothing there not even any juicy insider speculation stuff, just boring ass half an hour recap.

This is why i dislike videos, i rather read
Pro tip: Next time watch at 1.75-2x speed

He said something about the possibility of ram chips being upgraded but idk if i should trust him

 

[Apollo Helios]

This is why i dislike videos, i rather read
Pro tip: Next time watch at 1.75-2x speed

He said something about the possibility of ram chips being upgraded but idk if i should trust him

I think its his wish and nothing more. He stressed many times he knows nothing more than the official stuff available and speculating just like us.

 

[rntongo]

But he said the opposite
It can sustain and the drops for some specific heavy workload are a coupe of percent only.

Everything else is baseless assumption because nobody talking has the devkit or PS5.

I think the issue at hand is his statement were open to several interpretations. There would be no reason to use AMD smart shift if it could sustain both clocks at the same time.

 

[ethomaz]

I think the issue at hand is his statement were open to several interpretations. There would be no reason to use AMD smart shift if it could sustain both clocks at the same time.

He explained the reasons.

 

[rntongo]

Assumption + Unfounded speculation + Wild-assed fanboy guess = This post. . Wow! That was amazing!

I'm a Sony fanboy!! I watched the presentation from Cerny and no it doesn't achieve both max clock speeds at the same time. They had to make a compromise and that's what makes the system impressive(but less powerful than the Series X APU).

1.) Most games will run with 3.5GHz on the CPU and below 2.23 GHz on the GPU
2.) Some games will run at 2.23GHz and below 3.5GHz on the CPU.(What Cerny called extreme situations)
3.) The amount of power to the APU is determined by the workload. SO it uses a fixed amount of power per workload which is shared by the two processors
4.) What processor gets to hit max clock speed is determined by the activity monitors.(No additional power is sent to the APU so that both can hit max clock speeds)
5.) Point 4 is done through AMD-smart shift.

 

[Fake]

This is why i dislike videos, i rather read
Pro tip: Next time watch at 1.75-2x speed

He said something about the possibility of ram chips being upgraded but idk if i should trust him

I dislike tweets more. Depends of tge video context.

Anw, what video?

 

[DaGwaphics]

I'm taking that the smartshift is more about loads, than clocks. Adjustments will be made under full load, the system could idle at max clocks without issue. The whole system seems to fit a non-gaming first design more than anything (a laptop, that can give a little boost to the GPU during gaming, etc.). Sounds like they should have just gone with a bigger PSU.

 

[Kusarigama]

I'm a Sony fanboy!! I watched the presentation from Cerny and no it doesn't achieve both max clock speeds at the same time. They had to make a compromise and that's what makes the system impressive(but less powerful than the Series X APU).

1.) Most games will run with 3.5GHz on the CPU and below 2.23 GHz on the GPU
2.) Some games will run at 2.23GHz and below 3.5GHz on the CPU.(What Cerny called extreme situations)
3.) The amount of power to the APU is determined by the workload. SO it uses a fixed amount of power per workload which is shared by the two processors
4.) What processor gets to hit max clock speed is determined by the activity monitors.(No additional power is sent to the APU so that both can hit max clock speeds)
5.) Point 4 is done through AMD-smart shift.

It doesn't matter if you are a Sony fanboy or not, all of your point 1 through 5 are wrong. It doesn't work this way at all.

 

[Apollo Helios]

It doesn't matter if you are a Sony fanboy or not, all of your point 1 through 5 are wrong. It doesn't work this way at all.

There is a term called 'plot armor' for characters in series that are just untouchable cause reasons. And saying "I'm Sony/MS fanboy" seems like creates an expectancy in the minds of whoever said it that you are untouchable by the rest of the camp. But in fact it makes you more susceptible to being questioned all around, both sides of the camp.

 

[PSX]

The power didn't let Nintendo switch outsold Xbox one and x, games does and unique design does.
for now you all can say xbox is more powerful and all that but I can't wait to see in real world performance on PS5 and the XSX It will be so interesting one!

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I'm not really talking in terms of quality or features and what objective/subjective views a person can have on them who happens to be an enthusiast. You, I take are an enthusiast of sorts with electronics, so certain features and small edges here and there are going to stand out to you.

But to the wider market, it's literally more down to what the price provides and how cheap it can get, because in terms of important features that "get the job done", even the C-tier brands offer it nowadays. It's not like in the past where the difference between top-line and no-name brands was night and day.

I wasn't really saying anything about Sony's product quality personally; I'm not as enthused on their electronics line as you are, but I know they several high-quality products out there. It's just that to the average consumer, unless those products have a really strong brand identity to them, they won't care about them to the point of buying in massive droves, or to pay particular note to their specific advantages and buy them for those (maybe tech enthusiasts or professionals in certain fields would consider doing such, however). For the wider market, it comes down to what products deliver the big important features, and if they're affordable enough.

And that's an area where a lot of lower-tier and no-name brands can offer competitive products. At some point, that'll probably happen with gaming especially if things streamline and improve even further in areas like cloud gaming, smartphone gaming, commodity PC systems, STBs etc. That'll bring more competition both directly and indirectly, and you'll see dedicated home gaming consoles pushed to smaller margins as more niche products.

But, at the end of the day, just wanted to use that as a point in a (lot more) points addressing what CJY mentioned, even if it got a bit wordy (it's kind of a loaded topic by nature tho tbh).

Totally agree with you. I'm a speedy typist in both English and Arabic, but I think you're on another level. I think you're just so fast that you type what jumps in your mind like a PS5 SSD That's what ends up being a very big post compared to normal people

Your posts bring so much to the table, never stop, but doesn't mean I agree on every idea, but I like how you express yourself and your knowledge behind it.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Don’t talk shit about Mark Cerny. Respect OG

 

[Bo_Hazem]

“Noticeably more blurry”. I watched this video on my 60” 4K TV and barely saw a difference between 1X and Pro while sitting like 6-7 feet away Lol. If I could barely notice a difference, what do you think is going to happen to Johnny Public when he tries to see the difference between XSX and 5, which is performance wise, smaller than Pro and 1X? Come on man.

I'm an EXTREME Sony Fanboy, but the difference is very clear.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I feel like Sony and MS should time out their pre-orders for a few weeks from now, when everyone gets their free Trump bucks. Imagine being able to completely pay off the system and still have 700ish Trumpbux leftover, with the guarantee of having the console fully paid off. I have to imagine lots of people would do exactly that.

I would expect them using 2-year plans to accelerate sales.

 

[megreotsugua]

“Noticeably more blurry”. I watched this video on my 60” 4K TV and barely saw a difference between 1X and Pro while sitting like 6-7 feet away Lol. If I could barely notice a difference, what do you think is going to happen to Johnny Public when he tries to see the difference between XSX and 5, which is performance wise, smaller than Pro and 1X? Come on man.

On the other hand, denser and more varied texture and higher LOD will immediately be noticeable.

Texture detail/resolution > screen output resolution

 

[Deeper Underground]

On the other hand, denser and more varied texture and higher LOD will immediately be noticeable.

Texture detail/resolution > screen output resolution

Well then we will just have to wait and see how next gen games stack up then huh?

 

[quest]

The power didn't let Nintendo switch outsold Xbox one and x, games does and unique design does.
for now you all can say xbox is more powerful and all that but I can't wait to see in real world performance on PS5 and the XSX It will be so interesting one!

And cellphones out sold both different markets people. Hand held market does not equal the home console market. A tv out does not make a switch a console any more than casting does a tablet or phone. If it is limited by a mobile form factor and battery it is a hand held. Of course Sony will win the sale war they have 40-60 million guaranteed from their firewall of the EU and the East. Microsoft best case is be profitable grow the market and sell 60 million mostly in the Americas.

 

[Audiophile]

NO! Sony needs to focus on the PS5 and PSVR2. Forget handhelds!

While I wouldn't expect a new platform with new games I certainly wouldn't be averse to a budget "PSP Classic/Legacy" device that just lets you play an extensive digital library of PSP, PSVita, PS1, PS2 games with a PS Plus Add-on Sub for say £5.99/$7.99, is integrated with PSN, has an updated ui, connectivity and wireless standards; and is optimised for second screen/remote play with PS4/PS5.

I expect Sony could build a relatively cheap device and still make a profit at this point. It'd be a profitable little crowd pleaser.

 

[lepermessiah]

On the other hand, denser and more varied texture and higher LOD will immediately be noticeable.

Texture detail/resolution > screen output resolution

Exactly this. I think we're reaching diminishing returns with output res, I prefer super detailed textures myself.

The devs are all fapping over the PS5 tech for a reason, and I can't wait to see what they do with it.

".. the ability to load in the highest resolution version of any asset just in front of you and drop it immediately as you turn around means that every tree can have 3d bark and moss and ants marching on it just when needed, without blowing up the budget. It's going to be great."