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[ZywyPL]

Absolute values are smaller than ever compared to the power baseline.
Both consoles will be the most powerful yet as well.

It's basically Bugatti Veyron vs Chiron - sure, the latter has 50% more HP, more VMax etc., but that doesn't mean Veyron is slow by any means.

But on the other hand, I'm pretty sure any dev whenever asked would take extra 2TF instead of half, extra 8GB RAM instead of 256MB, additional 8 threads instead of 2, and so on, because ultimately that's what they are working on, an actual hardware with actual specs, not on percentages or X-times multipliers.

Those 2TF might be as worthy as 2 PS4, enough to render TLoU2 and GoW4 for example, that's a lot if you ask me, not "just XX%". But then again, Sony might still stick to 30FPS, whereas MS clearly wants to deliver 60 in their games, so in simple math Sony's games can potentially have more TF/frame, and as a result have actually better visuals at the cost of framerate.

 

[Kazekage1981]

I dont get it.

 

[SonGoku]

It doesn't exactly explain why he didn't mention VRS, since that's a totally new feature to AMD GPUs only just added in RDNA2,

Because they didn't discuss their GPU capabilities yet... Cerny didn't mention Tessalation on the PS4 reveal either

If nothing has changed, and I'm assuming it hasn't, that would mean this is a hardware feature introduced way back on Radeon HD 7970

This feature goes way back to RAGE of course it was less advanced back then of course, there different tiers of support.
No support Pre GCN
Limited GCN
Full RDNA2
Its not clear if GCN implementation is as advanced as Turing regardless RDNA2 should bring it up to par

Microsoft architect said it wasn't a standard RDNA2 feature

Thats not what he said..

No, this isn't part of RDNA2. Xbox Velocity Architecture is all custom to Xbox. We developed a lot of custom tech for Xbox Series X just like Sony did for PS5.

Velocity architecture comprises the GPU, CPU, SSD, I/O unit and different APIs. This setup is custom to XSX
The GPU hardware capability is standard RDNA2

 

[FranXico]

It's basically Bugatti Veyron vs Chiron - sure, the latter has 50% more HP, more VMax etc., but that doesn't mean Veyron is slow by any means.

But on the other hand, I'm pretty sure any dev whenever asked would take extra 2TF instead of half, extra 8GB RAM instead of 256MB, additional 8 threads instead of 2, and so on, because ultimately that's what they are working on, an actual hardware with actual specs, not on percentages or X-times multipliers.

Those 2TF might be as worthy as 2 PS4, enough to render TLoU2 and GoW4 for example, that's a lot if you ask me, not "just XX%". But then again, Sony might still stick to 30FPS, whereas MS clearly wants to deliver 60 in their games, so in simple math Sony's games can potentially have more TF/frame, and as a result have actually better visuals at the cost of framerate.

But nobody is working on 2TF, they are working on 10TF or 12TF. They are not working with percentages nor deltas.
People who are focusing so much on the absolute difference while asking others to disregard the reality of power scales and diminishing returns are being extremely disingenuous.

 

[Grodiak]

Exactly. Reverberation is the buildup of sound reflections, and the following decay of the audio being absorbed by surrounding objects and surfaces. I'm pretty sure you can't do RT audio without accounting for room reflections and reverb. Just like RT lighting simulates how light rays bounce off of objects and intersect, RT audio does this with the audio bouncing off of objects and the material they're made out of. It simulates how that audio will reflect around the room, and hit other objects (or lack of objects) while it's making it's way back to your ears.

Do we know if or how it would take into account sound sources coming/traveling through obstacles? I mean calculating reflections in a "box" is one thing but also taking into consideration how sound alters when vibrating through an obstacle is another. A non-real time solution would have baked in EQ for stuff like that but this whole calculative raytracing tech is making my head spin

 

[ResilientBanana]

But nobody is working on 2TF, they are working on 10TF or 12TF. They are not working with percentages nor deltas.
People who are focusing so much on the absolute difference while asking others to disregard the reality of power scales and diminishing returns are being extremely disingenuous.

PS5 has a whole PS4 and a half less (GCN) than XSX. Everyone remembers what the PS4 accomplished, right? Now imagine that missing from next gen games on PS5. I feel like that would be noticeable to some degree.

 

[mckmas8808]

It's basically Bugatti Veyron vs Chiron - sure, the latter has 50% more HP, more VMax etc., but that doesn't mean Veyron is slow by any means.

But on the other hand, I'm pretty sure any dev whenever asked would take extra 2TF instead of half, extra 8GB RAM instead of 256MB, additional 8 threads instead of 2, and so on, because ultimately that's what they are working on, an actual hardware with actual specs, not on percentages or X-times multipliers.

Those 2TF might be as worthy as 2 PS4, enough to render TLoU2 and GoW4 for example, that's a lot if you ask me, not "just XX%". But then again, Sony might still stick to 30FPS, whereas MS clearly wants to deliver 60 in their games, so in simple math Sony's games can potentially have more TF/frame, and as a result have actually better visuals at the cost of framerate.

You are showing you have literally no idea how games are made. Like not even on a kindergartener's level.

 

[ZywyPL]

But nobody is working on 2TF, they are working on 10TF or 12TF. They are not working with percentages nor deltas.
People who are focusing so much on the absolute difference while asking others to disregard the reality of power scales and diminishing returns are being extremely disingenuous.

We will never know until the consoles actually ship, there can be no difference as well as there can be huge difference, or something in between. Like I said few time already, the first wave of 3rd party titles will show what's what.

You are showing you have literally no idea how games are made. Like not even on a kindergartener's level.

Historically, like, in the past half a century, more powerful hardware always meant better performance, that's a fact, but if you want to live in denial go ahead, that's none of my business.

 

[Games Dean]

Looks like Sony's "news" this week was giving a couple games away for free and setting up a fund for Indies dealing with Covid challenges. Not ps5 related but more support that whenever they have something to say it'll more than likely happen on a Tuesday.

 

[mckmas8808]

We will never know until the consoles actually ship, there can be no difference as well as there can be huge difference, or something in between. Like I said few time already, the first wave of 3rd party titles will show what's what.

We actually do have a great idea how next-gen will compare to each other. Just look at this current-gen. This isn't rocket science.

 

[Kazekage1981]

Actually they are quite funny.

But you know, it is always easy talk about banned users now that they cant reply

Cause they were pro sony huh lol

Yah it is easy to talk about them when they cant reply. He was insightful on many things, but he made a meme about every stupid thing. Even if they were pro Sony, the memes just sucked-it was just NOT funny or witty to me.

Oh well. I just want to see the next Forza 8 and Gran Turismo and see the orange peel ray tracing shine. We haven't seen anything really next gen. Next-gen games will speak for themselves, and all this theoretical tech talk will not even matter that much. What will truly matter is tech talk on the actual performance of real next gen games.

Forza 8 vs Gran Turismo 7 (or whatever it is called) mmmm delicious

They also haven't touched too much on backwards compatibility except that its backwards compatible.

For example will Residents Evil 3 on PS5 and XsX run on true 4k resolution with solid 60fps? Is there some sort of upscaling through the hardware specs, AI, downloading patches, and other means to 'upscale and enhance' games from previous gen consoles?

Time will tell.

 

[travisktl]

Do we know if or how it would take into account sound sources coming/traveling through obstacles? I mean calculating reflections in a "box" is one thing but also taking into consideration how sound alters when vibrating through an obstacle is another. A non-real time solution would have baked in EQ for stuff like that but this whole calculative raytracing tech is making my head spin

I'm not sure about that yet. These two videos show sound being blocked by objects. The second video around :44 shows the sound being blocked by a door. I'm not sure how in depth that will go, or how it would change depending on what material the sound is passing through. RT light does a pretty good job representing how light filters through objects, so I'd hope it's as detailed on the audio side of things.

 

[FranXico]

We will never know until the consoles actually ship, there can be no difference as well as there can be huge difference, or something in between. Like I said few time already, the first wave of 3rd party titles will show what's what.

I am aware that the difference will be noticeable (particularly in ray tracing, for example), but people really are overstating it.

"Oh it's one whole PS4 difference!" That's not how it works. Especially with the actual differences in architecture this time.

 

[mckmas8808]

I am aware that the difference will be noticeable (particularly in ray tracing, for example), but people really are overstating it.

"Oh it's one whole PS4 difference!" That's not how it works. Especially with the actual differences in architecture this time.

Plus.....what's stopping 3rd party devs from just decreasing the resolution in PS5 games by 15% and then making every effect the exact same across the board between the PS5 and XSX? That's where most of your GPU difference will actually go to.

 

[FranXico]

Plus.....what's stopping 3rd party devs from just decreasing the resolution in PS5 games by 15% and then making every effect the exact same across the board between the PS5 and XSX? That's where most of your GPU difference will actually go to.

Maybe not all effects. Ray tracing is probably going to be toned down in the PS5 versions, for example. But people really are exaggerating how striking the differences will be.
We are not looking at a PS3 versus 360 situation here.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

PS5 has a whole PS4 and a half less (GCN) than XSX. Everyone remembers what the PS4 accomplished, right? Now imagine that missing from next gen games on PS5. I feel like that would be noticeable to some degree.

The difference between a GTX 2080 and TI is 3 TFs. If you cap both GPUs at 60, like consoles could do, the difference in resolution to maintain both at 60 fps will be very tiny.
Again, the whole idea "man the difference is X old gen consoles" is ridiculous because often between next gen console there is one old gen console difference or more, but at the end of the day differences are gonna be practical in the context of percentage. No matter if the difference is 5 PS4, if is in a context where that means 15% the actual gap in res or effects will be 15%, period.

 

[Okami Haundo]

Looks like Sony's "news" this week was giving a couple games away for free and setting up a fund for Indies dealing with Covid challenges. Not ps5 related but more support that whenever they have something to say it'll more than likely happen on a Tuesday.

I don't think we're getting anything today, but it is worth noting that DualSense was announced at like 4PM EST.

 

[Imtjnotu]

Did you know that the PS2 was the weakest console of its generation?



the 16% depends on each game, and the memory is more complication matter than simply overall bandwidth.

PS2 came out a whole year before the cube and Xbox

 

[Neo Blaster]

PS5 has a whole PS4 and a half less (GCN) than XSX. Everyone remembers what the PS4 accomplished, right? Now imagine that missing from next gen games on PS5. I feel like that would be noticeable to some degree.

Diminishing returns, man. There was also a PS4-base-wide delta between One X and Pro, and the difference was already small, now picture that when both are 2-digit tflops.

 

[ZywyPL]

We actually do have a great idea how next-gen will compare to each other. Just look at this current-gen. This isn't rocket science.

Exactly, we have two console hitting the target and two that underdeliver, this isn't a rocket science indeed.

I am aware that the difference will be noticeable (particularly in ray tracing, for example), but people really are overstating it.

"Oh it's one whole PS4 difference!" That's not how it works. Especially with the actual differences in architecture this time.

That's the thing, until next AMD cards hit the PC market there won't be any way to measure RDNA2 effectiveness and compare it with other architectures, RDNA1 is basically a hybrid arch, still based on GCN but with some new approach in the logic, while RDNA2 is suppose to (finally) be a completely fresh design. Not to mention features like Mesh Shading, VRS, AI upscaling etc. that can possibly make every tenth of a TF delivering more on-screen results than ever. But we will see.

 

[Kusarigama]

PS5 has a whole PS4 and a half less (GCN) than XSX. Everyone remembers what the PS4 accomplished, right? Now imagine that missing from next gen games on PS5. I feel like that would be noticeable to some degree.

Just compare Pro and 1X. They have same peak theoritical TFLOPS difference and see how much more Pro is missing from games in comparison with X since it is not quite unnoticeable to keen eyes.

 

[SonGoku]

PS5 > HRTF, binaural 3D audio
XsX > Room acoustics simulation

Project Acoustics is an audio engine, accoustics simulation/audio rt is done on compute units same as PS5

PS5 has a whole PS4 and a half less (GCN) than XSX. Everyone remembers what the PS4 accomplished, right? Now imagine that missing from next gen games on PS5. I feel like that would be noticeable to some degree.

XB1 had 2 and a half less Xbox360 ducked taped than PS4.

 

[jonnyp]

Amidst all these console warriors being banned left and right and over some theoretical TFLOP number, I just got thinking how much progress there has been in just 20 years in computing power. We now have as much power in a single home console as the most powerful supercomputer had in 2000, a supercomputer which consumed a total of 6 MW of power (!), weighed 106 tons and cost 110 million USD!


From Wikipedia:
ASCI White was a supercomputer at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California, which was briefly the fastest supercomputer in the world.[1]

Fisheye view of ASCI White
It was a computer cluster based on IBM's commercial RS/6000 SP computer. 512 nodes were interconnected for ASCI White, with each node containing sixteen 375 MHz IBM POWER3-II processors. In total, the ASCI White had 8,192 processors, 6 terabytes (TB) of memory, and 160 TB of disk storage. It was almost exclusively used for large-scale computations requiring dozens, hundreds, or thousands of processors. The computer weighed 106 tons and consumed 3 MW of electricity with a further 3 MW needed for cooling. It had a theoretical processing speed of 12.3 teraFLOPS (TFLOPS). A single modern 4U rackmount server could match these specifications while weighing under 50 kg and consuming under 2 kW of power. As of 2020, a single Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti graphics card can deliver comparable performance, at 14 TFLOPS per card. [2] The system ran IBM's AIX operating system.

The system was built in Poughkeepsie, New York. Completed in June 2000 it was transported to specially built facilities in California and officially dedicated on August 15, 2001.[3] Its peak performance of 12.3 TFLOPS was not achieved in the widely accepted LINPACK tests. The system cost US$110 million (equivalent to $163 million in 2019).

 

[FeiRR]

Amidst all these console warriors being banned left and right and over some theoretical TFLOP number, I just got thinking how much progress there has been in just 20 years in computing power. We now have as much power in a single home console as the most powerful supercomputer had in 2000, a supercomputer which consumed a total of 6 MW of power (!), weighed 106 tons and cost 110 million USD!

I wanted to write: that's incredible! Then I thought that my desktop in 2000 booted quicker than it does right now with Windows PC.

 

[Gediminas]

It's basically Bugatti Veyron vs Chiron - sure, the latter has 50% more HP, more VMax etc., but that doesn't mean Veyron is slow by any means.

But on the other hand, I'm pretty sure any dev whenever asked would take extra 2TF instead of half, extra 8GB RAM instead of 256MB, additional 8 threads instead of 2, and so on, because ultimately that's what they are working on, an actual hardware with actual specs, not on percentages or X-times multipliers.

Those 2TF might be as worthy as 2 PS4, enough to render TLoU2 and GoW4 for example, that's a lot if you ask me, not "just XX%". But then again, Sony might still stick to 30FPS, whereas MS clearly wants to deliver 60 in their games, so in simple math Sony's games can potentially have more TF/frame, and as a result have actually better visuals at the cost of framerate.

yes indeed, developers would chose Jaguar CPU + 12,15tf instead of Zen 2 CPU + 10,28Tf. what a clever boy

 

[saintjules]

That's kind of the point of RT audio though, is it not? Just like RT lighting, it's meant to simulate everything in the most realistic way. For example, check out this video. It's someone just messing with RT audio in UE4, but it allows for very accurate representation of the room they're currently in, down to the materials used and everything. There are a few awesome videos on youtube going over RT audio, and even though they are an early glimpse into what can be done, it's all very exciting stuff.

Interesting. Sounds like the audio is in mono, but then it comes out in stereo at times. Something to do with stereo separation I think.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Project Acoustics is an audio engine, accoustics simulation/audio rt is done on compute units same as PS5

XB1 had 2 and a half less Xbox360 ducked taped than PS4.

And with just 2 and a half 360 more, PS4 had 40% better res, better effects and fps, immagine now what SeX can do with a PS4+ ducked taped more! Think about it, PS4 is like what? Ten 360? This means that between SeX and PS5 there will be about 500% the res difference compared to PS4 and One, that's CRAZY, all those pixels probably correspond to ONE ENTIRE 480 p TV screen ducked taped on a 2K TV, can you immagine?!
O boi this shit is out of the world.

 

[xacto]

I never noticed that page existed, the reasons are really something special. Props to the writer(s) there.

Are there other hidden gems like this? I was thread-banned for like a week, but that didn't make it on the page. Would have been funny to see the reason on that one (plus I don't really know what post prompted that, I feel like my post history is consistently aloof, LOL).

I didn't know about that page until last week, I think? Someone mentioned it in this thread, in a post, and that's how I found out about it. I really don't remember seeing your name in there though, but I might have just skimmed over and never noticed. Usually the reasons for the bans are a great read, I am not sure who is writing those (I suppose the mods), but some are really funny to read, even though they depict a sad reality... we're quarreling amongst ourselves over plastic boxes, from mega-corporations that are after our money, not after our misplaced "loyalty"...

 

[DaGwaphics]

I didn't know about that page until last week, I think? Someone mentioned it in this thread, in a post, and that's how I found out about it. I really don't remember seeing your name in there though, but I might have just skimmed over and never noticed. Usually the reasons for the bans are a great read, I am not sure who is writing those (I suppose the mods), but some are really funny to read, even though they depict a sad reality... we're quarreling amongst ourselves over plastic boxes, from mega-corporations that are after our money, not after our misplaced "loyalty"...

Ha Ha, true, true indeed.

I didn't get site banned, I was just banned from this thread.

 

[onQ123]

Amidst all these console warriors being banned left and right and over some theoretical TFLOP number, I just got thinking how much progress there has been in just 20 years in computing power. We now have as much power in a single home console as the most powerful supercomputer had in 2000, a supercomputer which consumed a total of 6 MW of power (!), weighed 106 tons and cost 110 million USD!


From Wikipedia:
ASCI White was a supercomputer at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California, which was briefly the fastest supercomputer in the world.[1]

Fisheye view of ASCI White
It was a computer cluster based on IBM's commercial RS/6000 SP computer. 512 nodes were interconnected for ASCI White, with each node containing sixteen 375 MHz IBM POWER3-II processors. In total, the ASCI White had 8,192 processors, 6 terabytes (TB) of memory, and 160 TB of disk storage. It was almost exclusively used for large-scale computations requiring dozens, hundreds, or thousands of processors. The computer weighed 106 tons and consumed 3 MW of electricity with a further 3 MW needed for cooling. It had a theoretical processing speed of 12.3 teraFLOPS (TFLOPS). A single modern 4U rackmount server could match these specifications while weighing under 50 kg and consuming under 2 kW of power. As of 2020, a single Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti graphics card can deliver comparable performance, at 14 TFLOPS per card. [2] The system ran IBM's AIX operating system.

The system was built in Poughkeepsie, New York. Completed in June 2000 it was transported to specially built facilities in California and officially dedicated on August 15, 2001.[3] Its peak performance of 12.3 TFLOPS was not achieved in the widely accepted LINPACK tests. The system cost US$110 million (equivalent to $163 million in 2019).

That 6TB of memory though

 

[SenjutsuSage]

A Microsoft Graphics and Engine Architect answered a question on Sampler Feedback Streaming and Xbox Series X, seeing as how the core feature has been available since the 7970. He says Sampler Feedback is "one part" of SFS and they added special texture filters that handle when a texture page is not in memory yet. And he says that part is custom to Xbox Series X. I love when these guys answer questions, because I'm sure they're all walking a very fine line with how much they can say. They basically tweaked it to make it more useful for the task and there seems to be some other things he isn't talking about, since he didn't say one part of velocity architecture as a whole. Love this stuff.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I liked the ps5 controller before that cyberpunk yellow, but holy shit!!!!!!

 

[SonGoku]

Maybe not all effects. Ray tracing is probably going to be toned down in the PS5 versions, for example. But people really are exaggerating how striking the differences will be.
We are not looking at a PS3 versus 360 situation here.

RT gap is the same as compute gap 15-20%
RT performance scales with clocks same as compute performance

 

[jonnyp]

That 6TB of memory though

Hehe yeah. Someday... someday

 

[SenjutsuSage]

RT gap is the same as compute gap 15-20%
RT performance scales with clocks same as compute performance

RT performances scales with more units that are actually able to do the work. Hence, the more compute units the better. There are 4 TMUs per Compute Unit, and I believe it's the intersection hardware is attached to those same TMUs and presumably there may be other ray tracing hardware elsewhere on the GPU we aren't aware of yet.

PS5 has 144 TMUs. Xbox Series X has 208. A 44% advantage in the area where the ray tracing hardware is located, and that just may be one of multiple areas since AMD hasn't fully detailed their ray tracing tech yet. RTX 2080 Super has a big clock speed advantage over the bigger 2080 ti, but the 2080 ti wins in the ray tracing department because of things like more units dedicated to the task and, I believe, memory bandwidth.

 

[Thirty7ven]

It's basically Bugatti Veyron vs Chiron - sure, the latter has 50% more HP, more VMax etc., but that doesn't mean Veyron is slow by any means.

But on the other hand, I'm pretty sure any dev whenever asked would take extra 2TF instead of half, extra 8GB RAM instead of 256MB, additional 8 threads instead of 2, and so on, because ultimately that's what they are working on, an actual hardware with actual specs, not on percentages or X-times multipliers.

Those 2TF might be as worthy as 2 PS4, enough to render TLoU2 and GoW4 for example, that's a lot if you ask me, not "just XX%". But then again, Sony might still stick to 30FPS, whereas MS clearly wants to deliver 60 in their games, so in simple math Sony's games can potentially have more TF/frame, and as a result have actually better visuals at the cost of framerate.

You can't possibly believe things work like that, right? Right?

Saying that those 2TF are as worthy as 2 PS4 is like saying the difference between PS4 and XB1 were two XB360s and you could render Read Dead Redemption and Gears of War 2 at the same time with that spare. What an unbelievably huge difference.

It's ridiculous and shows that you really don't understand how any of this works. Just look at how GPU cards in PC's differ from each other within the same family and start from there.

 

[SonGoku]

PS5 has 144 TMUs. Xbox Series X has 208. A 44% advantage in the area where the ray tracing hardware is located, and that just may be one of multiple areas since AMD hasn't fully detailed their ray tracing tech yet. RTX 2080 Super has a big clock speed advantage over the bigger 2080 ti, but the 2080 ti wins in the ray tracing department because of things like more units dedicated to the task and, I believe, memory bandwidth.

You are missing the point, PS5 has less RT units but each unit is 22% faster and can perform more intersections per cycle
Its the same calculation as the compute performance and same gap 17-20%

He says Sampler Feedback is "one part" of SFS and they added special texture filters that handle when a texture page is not in memory yet.

This is not related to the GPU hardware capability to be introduced with RDNA2 as he said GPU SF is one part
Their customization is related to the streaming from SSD process, to fall back to lower quality texture while the high quality texture streams from SSD

 

[Metroiddarks]

Do you think is possible or at least worth it to implement in the new consoles with the new aggressive culling solutions in the same time with RT implementations like reflections ?

As for example a GE can remove geometry which doesn't exists in that time in the render window our reflection will be just partial so in part the RT waste part of
its potencial to make things which are not visible in camera affect the light in the scene.

I mean make senses as this kind of features (mesh shaders/primitive shaders) are more for its use in normal rasterization render than RT.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

RT gap is the same as compute gap 15-20%
RT performance scales with clocks same as compute performance

RT performances scales with more units that are actually able to do the work. Hence, the more compute units the better. There are 4 TMUs per Compute Unit, and I believe it's the intersection hardware is attached to those same TMUs and presumably there may be other ray tracing hardware elsewhere on the GPU we aren't aware of yet.

PS5 has 144 TMUs. Xbox Series X has 208. A 44% advantage in the area where the ray tracing hardware is located, and that just may be one of multiple areas since AMD hasn't fully detailed their ray tracing tech yet. RTX 2080 Super has a big clock speed advantage over the bigger 2080 ti, but the 2080 ti wins in the ray tracing department because of things like more units dedicated to the task and, I believe, memory bandwidth.

You're both right. XSX can do more unique RT calculations per cycle in parallel (52 CUs) on (one case scenario) 10 GBs worth of game object data that's streamed in faster (560 GB/s). OTOH, PS5 does less unique RT calculations per cycle in parallel (36 CUs) on (one case scenario) 10 GB worth of game object data that's fed in slower (448 GB/s), but it can also do about 22% additional unique RT calculations in the same cycle on that same group of data because of the GPU's higher clock frequency.

Each approach has their advantages and disadvantages, depending on what effects devs want to achieve. But they essentially balance each other out in a lot of ways other than specific scenarios where one approach is better than the other in almost all of those cases (what those scenarios are we don't really know yet until we start seeing games in action).

Aside; I was reading some stuff and apparently MS has modified the group count for mesh shading on XSX to 256. The normal amount seems to be 32, and the other two are 64 and 128 (which is the max with Nvidia's support). Apparently the larger the group size the better, but I'm just going off what I read on other places like Beyond3D (they did screencap a MS Xbox team person who mentioned it in a video however (might've been a stream).

Seemed interesting to come across that. Hope we learn more about stuff like that for both systems, even if it's drip-fed.

 

[SonGoku]

You're both right. XSX can do more unique RT calculations per cycle in parallel (52 CUs) on (one case scenario) 10 GBs worth of game object data that's streamed in faster (560 GB/s). OTOH, PS5 does less unique RT calculations per cycle in parallel (36 CUs) on (one case scenario) 10 GB worth of game object data that's fed in slower (448 GB/s), but it can also do about 22% additional unique RT calculations in the same cycle on that same group of data because of the GPU's higher clock frequency.

Im saying the RT gap is the same as the compute gap 17-20%, its the same principle. XSX still on top didn't contest that
PS5 has less RT units but each unit is 22% faster and can perform more RT calculations per cycle, XSX still comes on top but the gap is 17-20% not 44%

 

[Evilms]

PlayStation Twitter : 18 million followers

• Number 1 Gaming account
• Number 1 Brand most followed
• 125th most followed account overall

PlayStation Instagram : 24 million followers

• Number 1 Gaming account
• 19th Brand most followed
• 203rd most followed account overall

Top 5 most liked gaming post on Instagram :

1. 5.371 m - PS5 logo reveal
2. 4.609 m - PS5's DualSense design reveal
3. 2.683 m - Fortnite x Avengers Endgame
4. 2.546 m - Fortnite Season 6
5. 2.544 m - Fortnite Season X

(Credit to ArmGunar)

 

[HawarMiran]

PlayStation Twitter : 18 million followers

• Number 1 Gaming account
• Number 1 Brand most followed
• 125th most followed account overall

PlayStation Instagram : 24 million followers

• Number 1 Gaming account
• 19th Brand most followed
• 203rd most followed account overall

Top 5 most liked gaming post on Instagram :

1. 5.371 m - PS5 logo reveal
2. 4.609 m - PS5's DualSense design reveal
3. 2.683 m - Fortnite x Avengers Endgame
4. 2.546 m - Fortnite Season 6
5. 2.544 m - Fortnite Season X

(Credit to ArmGunar)

There is still an X, although in a different context.

 

[LordOfChaos]

It's basically Bugatti Veyron vs Chiron - sure, the latter has 50% more HP, more VMax etc., but that doesn't mean Veyron is slow by any means.

But on the other hand, I'm pretty sure any dev whenever asked would take extra 2TF instead of half, extra 8GB RAM instead of 256MB, additional 8 threads instead of 2, and so on, because ultimately that's what they are working on, an actual hardware with actual specs, not on percentages or X-times multipliers.

Those 2TF might be as worthy as 2 PS4, enough to render TLoU2 and GoW4 for example, that's a lot if you ask me, not "just XX%". But then again, Sony might still stick to 30FPS, whereas MS clearly wants to deliver 60 in their games, so in simple math Sony's games can potentially have more TF/frame, and as a result have actually better visuals at the cost of framerate.

Quoting myself, cuz this is silly

Think about this, the difference between a Geforce 8300 (48Gflops) and an 8800GTX (345.6 GFLOPS) is ~300Gflops.
The difference between a 2080 (10Tflops) and a 2080TI (13) is 3000Gflops.

Would you say the first two are closer tiers of products? No, because time moves on and metrics change, and the percentage difference between them rather than the absolute value is what matters, it should be obvious to anyone that despite the absolute numbers, the 2080 and 2080TI are closer than the 8300 and 8800.

Put in your terms, adding a 8800GTX to a graphics cards capabilities today has far less of an impact as it would the day of its launch, because time moves on, compute performance increases and compounds, and the same units grow lesser in stature the more of them we have. 300 Gflops were enormous one day. Today they aren't. It's the relative difference between modern products that matters, not how many extra gamecubes stacked they are.

 

[SgtCaffran]

so why you stated that tempest engine doesn't support reverb, reflections? that's is contradiction. still can't answer?

I have not made this claim. I have, however, explained that the primary goal of the Tempest Engine is to provide 3D Audio by means of HRTF and not room acoustics simulation. And I have also stated that any leftover computational power can be used by developers as they see fit. Can you now please stop this useless crusade?

Project Acoustics is an audio engine, accoustics simulation/audio rt is done on compute units same as PS5

Please read my earlier posts on what Project Acoustics really is. Basically they simulate the acoustics of all static environments of a game offline and create a simplified model out of the results by means of probes. This model is used in the XsX audio chip to get accurate room acoustics.

The PS5 will use RT for this purpose, yes. Although the question is how close the two solutions will be because raytracing does not deal with waves and probably needs some tricks to work properly.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Quoting myself, cuz this is silly





Put in your terms, adding a 8800GTX to a graphics cards capabilities today has far less of an impact as it would the day of its launch, because time moves on, compute performance increases and compounds, and the same units grow lesser in stature the more of them we have. 300 Gflops were enormous one day. Today they aren't. It's the relative difference between modern products that matters, not how many extra gamecubes stacked they are.

Wonder how many Magnavox Odyssey there are between SeX and PS5. One milion? One million is big dude.

 

[B_Boss]

'War tapes' audio preset, nothing else! But have you played Titanfall 2?

Yes I have but it’s been a while and it was brief (I didn’t own it)!

 

[Trueblakjedi]

This feels bit like projecting, after the reveals occurred I read a lot more about boost clocks being a farce, supposed major overheating problems, the very fast SSD being a waste of time on top of what XSX had, Tempest being a waste of resources on top of what XSX provides, higher clockspeed for the GPU (outside of the CU’s and per CU, etc...) having no or very minor effects, etc... I have seen one side so obsessed with the specs dominance narrative where anything that could be seen as an advantage on the PS5 side or as something that makes the gap more narrow cannot even be part of the conversation: total and utter surrender seems to be the the end goal of such discussions.
Are you concerned about poor consumers or the XSX brand image?

I honestly see more Xbox supporters pushing a message like “focus only on TFLOPS, any other bit XSX either has it too or XSX has enough and anything on top of it is overkill and won’t make a difference to customers”.
This is on top of another narrative around real clocks of PS5 being far lower and trying to prove the clock speed differential is essentially meaningless at best.
I do not see this many PS5 fans constructing evidently false scenarios where PS5 is overall superior. I see two consoles with specs close to each other and pros and cons of each solution.



If it is inserted in the right context, someone stating that PS5 will be faster at rendering than XSX without any qualifications, yes. Else, it seems to veer off slightly into a not so thinly veiled “let’s ensure people do not get excited about PS5”.

Its literally the other way around.

 

[Trueblakjedi]

Thanks.

I know how to calculate fillrate (# of TMUs x GPU frequency), but how do you calculate the aspects of GPU performance that are associated with the other specifications? I'd like to know because I've read that the higher frequency of the PS5's GPU makes it faster than the XSX's GPU in some regards, such as rasterization.

Its done the same way.

ROPs is same.

What other number are you trying to calculate?

 

[mckmas8808]

I liked the ps5 controller before that cyberpunk yellow, but holy shit!!!!!!

That Cyberpunk PS5 controller is probably the greatest thing I've seen yet.

 

[MasterCornholio]

<snip>

Well that's one way to stop us from having fake insiders.