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[Dacon]

Let´s not pretend like the original narrative wasn´t already a bunch of hot anime nonsense.

"anyone that disagrees with my opinion is pretending"

 

[ULTROS!]

Love the alternate time line. At least it will provide excitement for new and old players alike.

Lol at people “I want to play the complete story” and I’m like girl, this is a different timeline so the story is ???

 

[Boneless]

Did we play the same Final Fantasy 7?

The Most Powerful Materia Combinations In Final Fantasy 7, Ranked

Final Fantasy 7 features a wide array of skills and abilities via Materia, but which combinations are considered the strongest?

www.thegamer.com

DBZ levels of ridiculous materia combinations is what made FF7 so memorable to a lot of people. End game FF7 is a carnival of broken materia combinations.

I don´t think you understand the problem. DBZ is used as an example as it had these problems to some extent, it started early on with Freeza, who could already destroy whole planets with relative ease. Enemies that have to keep getting stronger gets difficult if you already start very high.

Now we have FF7R, you've just beated the keeper of faith itself in an alternative dimension. Surely, this beast is much stronger than any of the weapons beaten in the previous game. This is the scoping issue, where do they go from here that is not ridiculous.

 

[Rentahamster]

Dude, that's gameplay, the party wasn't busting out Knights of the Round to decimate their enemies during story scenes. I also would not compare the material system to the stuff people do in DBZ, which literally consists of feats like teleportation, blowing up literal planets, and punching down mountains and buildings.

The characters clearly had their own limitations during the story line and cutscenes. I'm not saying the party doesn't become powerful in the game, I'm saying that they're too powerful already at what is essentially the BEGINNING of the story. They're fighting time dragons, Fate, and Sephiroth man.

They're no need for snark bruh, I agree with you on a lot about the game. I just have my misgivings.

Not trying to be snarky - just pointing out a difference in perspective because from my viewpoint, gameplay is part of the narrative. They weren't busting out KotR because you have to make the story scenes as universal as possible. Not every player will get KotR. Not every player is going to have revive + phoenix, or counter + mime x8. And then it's unfeasible to make multiple cut scenes or story branches depending on what kinds of overpowered materia the player happens to have at the moment.

Yes, we're still at the beginning, however, there's still much more room to grow. The most powerful summon we have so far is Bahamut. The most powerful magic are tier 3 normal spells. We're only at level 50 and don't have more than 4 materia slots on armor. There's no Comet, no ultima, no Bahamut Zero, Quadra Magic, Meteorain, Omnislash, Final Heaven, ( we do have Catastrophe though). If you can't imagine bigger and badder stuff than time dragons, Whisper Harbinger, or Sephiroth copy, then that's a lack of imagination.

I accept that you have misgivings, but I don't. The devs have shown that they care about the source material and they are willing to put in the time and effort to make it work. They've proven themselves enough that I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. This is a big departure from my opinion of Squeenix for the last 15 years where I had next to zero faith that they'd do anything worthwhile.

I don´t think you understand the problem. DBZ is used as an example as it had these problems to some extent, it started early on with Freeza, who could already destroy whole planets with relative ease. Enemies that have to keep getting stronger gets difficult if you already start very high.

Now we have FF7R, you've just beated the keeper of faith itself in an alternative dimension. Surely, this beast is much stronger than any of the weapons beaten in the previous game. This is the scoping issue, where do they go from here that is not ridiculous.

I think I do understand the issue with power creep and I have my problems with it in TV shows, movies, literature, and games. However, we're not there yet. Yes, the endgame party at the end of FF7R is much stronger and has seen more shit than a post-Midgar pre-Kalm FF7 party, but that's due to needing FF7R to feel like a full game. However, that doesn't mean we've hit the ceiling. There's loads more room for growth here. Like I mentioned in my response to Dacon we don't even have the crazy materia, limits, magic, or summons yet.

And surely, the final bosses of FF7R are not the biggest you can imagine. There's lots of untapped potential for bosses in the future. This is a JRPG. There's always more room to crank up the power. At this point in time, I don't see how FF7R is significantly breaking the mold in gameplay, character or story progression that's been a hallmark of JRPGS since Final Fantasy 1.

It seems like people are just uncertain about the future, and it gets them worried. I get it, but, eh. Relax and enjoy.

 

[gela94]

I don´t think you understand the problem. DBZ is used as an example as it had these problems to some extent, it started early on with Freeza, who could already destroy whole planets with relative ease. Enemies that have to keep getting stronger gets difficult if you already start very high.

Now we have FF7R, you've just beated the keeper of faith itself in an alternative dimension. Surely, this beast is much stronger than any of the weapons beaten in the previous game. This is the scoping issue, where do they go from here that is not ridiculous.

Yeah I was also wondering how they will continue, I mean the last fight was already some endgame kind of shit .... so with what will they come out next? It just seemed like they wanted to cram everything in this game, did they even thought about how this will continue in part 2??

 

[buizel]

I meant the Japanese script. I'm asking because the original FF7 is known for having a not stellar localization.

No clue lol I just played the game didn't read Japanese scripts

 

[Rentahamster]

Just got a new personal best on hard mode secret boss training simulator - 3:55 woo

 

[Vawn]

People asked for a remake, they didn’t ask for a complete abandonment of what defines the original game. What they’re looking to do here is FAR past crossing the line of what a remake is. This is completely new territory, and the usage of remake is nothing but deceptive usage of the term to use nostalgia to sell novelty.

In defense of the term "Remake", only this part was actually named that so far and it did a fantastic job retelling the events of the Midgar portion in their entirety. Really nothing was left out and until the very end of was a pretty true remake of the original.

Maybe the next part might not follow the original story as closely. But we don't even know if they will use the term "Remake" in that part or not. And if they do, maybe they actually will tie the story as close to the original as this first one did (until that end). There's a lot of uncertainty and we will just have to find out at a later date.

 

[Rentahamster]

I didn't have any luck with that so I thought it was a bogus strat, I'll give it another go/.

I finally killed Bahamut before that little shit Ifrit spawns.

The trick is to DPS hard at the start, ease off a bit at 55% life, wait until he counts down, then DPS the shit out of him again.

New record time is 3:31

 

[Geki-D]

Just beat the game. Funny thing is I never played the original so I have no idea what all this alternate timeline stuff people are talking about is lol.

Game was decent, though I think the combat system is barely serviceable most of the time. The lack of combo cancels into blocks & dodge was really getting on my nerves and most boss fights felt like an exchange of damage where I'd be slashing at an enemy whilst they just stood there unflinching then whipped out their attack I wouldn't be able to dodge or block because I'd be in the middle of a combo. Also one of the very few things I do know about classic FFVII is that enemies have a ATB bar too but not in this so some bosses just spammed attack after attack after attack.

I really hated the boss rally at the end. Fuck that, it just got tiresome. Robot sawfish, then Jenova, then Rufus, then Arsenal, then car robot, then 3 whispers, then whisper Bahamut, then 3 whispers again, then Sephiroth... Just stop. I hate it when JRPGs to this, though often it's just one boss but with 10 different phases. It's just pointless filler.

Interested to see where the sequel goes. I know that on disc 2 classic FFVII had the overworld after you left Midgar so I wonder how they'll do that.

 

[Entroyp]

What don't you like about it?

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it to be fair, but it’s just not my cup of tea (maybe I’m too old for this shit). My main issue is that the game demands you to pay attention to too many things at the same time and I don’t necessarily feel in control of any outcome, which frustraste me.

 

[Rentahamster]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it to be fair, but it’s just not my cup of tea (maybe I’m too old for this shit). My main issue is that the game demands you to pay attention to too many things at the same time and I don’t necessarily feel in control of any outcome, which frustraste me.

If you feel like the game is going by too fast, press X, and just slow down time, think, assess the situation, and then proceed. Notice what the enemy is doing. They telegraph all their moves. Read the evemy intel and make sure you have a strategy to stagger or exploit weaknesses debuffs.

 

[bargeparty]

Interested to see where the sequel goes. I know that on disc 2 classic FFVII had the overworld after you left Midgar so I wonder how they'll do that.

Part 2 will be Kalm only with the flashback to Sephiroth going through the old scientists notes. You just watch him read for 30 hours.

 

[Vawn]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it to be fair, but it’s just not my cup of tea (maybe I’m too old for this shit). My main issue is that the game demands you to pay attention to too many things at the same time and I don’t necessarily feel in control of any outcome, which frustraste me.

How old are you? I'm 40, so I'm curious how long I have until I'll be too old for this shit.

Easily my GOTY. I was amazed at how well it turned out.

 

[Rentahamster]

 

[E.T. Waifu]

WHO DID THIS. I want to play as Cloud like that.

 

[Entroyp]

How old are you? I'm 40, so I'm curious how long I have until I'll be too old for this shit.

Easily my GOTY. I was amazed at how well it turned out.

I don’t understand what you mean by that, but it’s good that you like it. I’m old enough that time to play games is limited due to career, school, family, and life in general. And I’m younger than you.

There’s quite a lot of games out there which would bring me joy instead of frustration, so time to move on.

 

[D.Final]

I need to re-watch the ending several times before actually understanding

 

[Spukc]

I just finished the game.
People that rated this game 9 or 10 are retarded.

-edit-
Mentally retarded

This is something for fans.
And imo i prefered crisis core a lot more then this game.
I would give this game a 7 at most.

I think i want to replay OG ff7 on the switch now. To remind myself why i liked jrpgs again.

 

[Dacon]

Yes, we're still at the beginning, however, there's still much more room to grow. The most powerful summon we have so far is Bahamut. The most powerful magic are tier 3 normal spells. We're only at level 50 and don't have more than 4 materia slots on armor. There's no Comet, no ultima, no Bahamut Zero, Quadra Magic, Meteorain, Omnislash, Final Heaven, ( we do have Catastrophe though). If you can't imagine bigger and badder stuff than time dragons, Whisper Harbinger, or Sephiroth copy, then that's a lack of imagination.

See, that's where your wrong, I can imagine and that is precisely why I'm worried. In order to create justifiable threats that people can buy, theyre going to continue to escalate, and I don't think that's a good thing.

The devs have shown that they care about the source material and they are willing to put in the time and effort to make it work.

I would totally agree with you were it not for the last chapter of the game.

They've proven themselves enough that I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. This is a big departure from my opinion of Squeenix for the last 15 years where I had next to zero faith that they'd do anything worthwhile.

I don't think it's prudent to discount the numerous missteps that SE has made before this title, because this one turned out decent. Hell we recently had the mess that was KH3 come out, and XV before it. I think apprehension is the best approach at this point. I mean, the ending just reinforces my position on this.

I finally killed Bahamut before that little shit Ifrit spawns.

The trick is to DPS hard at the start, ease off a bit at 55% life, wait until he counts down, then DPS the shit out of him again.

New record time is 3:31

Good job dude.

How old are you? I'm 40, so I'm curious how long I have until I'll be too old for this shit.

Easily my GOTY. I was amazed at how well it turned out.

I get the feeling this is going to be a 5 year after at the least.

 

[Rentahamster]

See, that's where your wrong, I can imagine and that is precisely why I'm worried. In order to create justifiable threats that people can buy, theyre going to continue to escalate, and I don't think that's a good thing.

Escalation is the same as progression. JRPGs escalate and raise the stakes all throughout the story. We can disagree on the rate of change, but I really don't see how this is a big departure from traditional JRPG norms. The devs have to balance the fact that this is both the first part of a larger story, and a full gameplay experience all in the same game, and thus certain choices have to be made in how to scale the player's power level. Personally, I think the HP scaling is too high, but then again, I can see how it might be weird to not be able to max out your HP at "endgame".

I would totally agree with you were it not for the last chapter of the game.

I guess I'm just not agreeing because I thought the last chapter was great and added lots of interesting potential while maintaining nostalgia. Even if I thought the last chapter was crap, what about all the other 17 chapters? One chapter can't be so bad that it ruins the entire rest of the game though, can it? (I'm getting Game of Thrones PTSD here though lol)

I don't think it's prudent to discount the numerous missteps that SE has made before this title, because this one turned out decent. Hell we recently had the mess that was KH3 come out, and XV before it. I think apprehension is the best approach at this point. I mean, the ending just reinforces my position on this.

The past is what it is, but this is a step in the right direction. Again, I didn't have an issue with the last chapter and I thought it was cool, so it just really comes down to personal preference. Some people like the new stuff, some don't.

Good job dude.

Why thank you

 

[Dacon]

Escalation is the same as progression. JRPGs escalate and raise the stakes all throughout the story. We can disagree on the rate of change, but I really don't see how this is a big departure from traditional JRPG norms. The devs have to balance the fact that this is both the first part of a larger story, and a full gameplay experience all in the same game, and thus certain choices have to be made in how to scale the player's power level. Personally, I think the HP scaling is too high, but then again, I can see how it might be weird to not be able to max out your HP at "endgame".

The big departure IS the degree at which things have escalated. Which is the entire issue with the idea of them going through similar events of the original. The choice to have the party be superheroes right out of midgar is a bad one, if they intend to at all follow the og plot, which theres a good chance it won't.

I guess I'm just not agreeing because I thought the last chapter was great and added lots of interesting potential while maintaining nostalgia. Even if I thought the last chapter was crap, what about all the other 17 chapters? One chapter can't be so bad that it ruins the entire rest of the game though, can it? (I'm getting Game of Thrones PTSD here though lol)

An ending can easily sour an experience for someone, especially one full of plotholes and absolute nonsense that cannot be understood at face value. You just proved that by mentioning game of thrones.

The past is what it is, but this is a step in the right direction.

Can't disagree more. The ending is nonsense that isn't even consistent with itself, and totally of line with the themes of FFVII.

 

[bargeparty]

This is why I usually just rant instead of trying to have a discussion. Neither side will agree so why waste the effort.

 

[Rentahamster]

The big departure IS the degree at which things have escalated. Which is the entire issue with the idea of them going through similar events of the original. The choice to have the party be superheroes right out of midgar is a bad one, if they intend to at all follow the og plot, which theres a good chance it won't.

I think the increase in visual fidelity and gameplay freedom makes this appear larger than it actually is. In the original game, you can use powerful magic and do fantastic moves, but it doesn't look "superhero" because it's constrained within a PS1-era turn based combat system.

Even if they don't follow the OG plot one to one, I'm fine with that. I've played the original game many times over the years. I'm in the mood for some change that keeps the spirit and themes of the original intact, which I think this game has.

An ending can easily sour an experience for someone, especially one full of plotholes and absolute nonsense that cannot be understood at face value. You just proved that by mentioning game of thrones.

Well sure, I hated season 7 and 8 of GoT and it has made me not want to rewatch the previous seasons at all. I don't get that feeling from this game. I don't think there are plotholes, and I don't think it's nonsense. It had a lot of great callbacks and respected the source material, unlike the GoT later seasons.

Can't disagree more. The ending is nonsense that isn't even consistent with itself, and totally of line with the themes of FFVII.

Can you explain how you think it's inconsistent?

The themes of technology vs nature are still there. Struggling with the past. The drive to prove oneself. Personal growth. The philosophy of "the ends justify the means". How does fighting Whisper Harbinger and Sephiroth, and taking a stand against destiny invalidate all of that?

 

[Dacon]

Even if they don't follow the OG plot one to one, I'm fine with that. I've played the original game many times over the years. I'm in the mood for some change that keeps the spirit and themes of the original intact, which I think this game has.

That's fine, but that's not at all what I was advertised by their marketing and their statements in interviews.

Well sure, I hated season 7 and 8 of GoT and it has made me not want to rewatch the previous seasons at all. I don't get that feeling from this game. I don't think there are plotholes, and I don't think it's nonsense. It had a lot of great callbacks and respected the source material, unlike the GoT later seasons.

There definitely are plot holes, I've pointed them out in my past posts. Shit like Sephiroth being helped by the whispers when he seems to want to change the future, the party being goaded into killing Fate by Sephiroth when they don't want to help him, but they do it anyway? The whispers remaining after you defeat fate.

Why does Aerith know that FFVII's future is "the bad one" and why are they willing to destroy Fate against the will of the planet, when Avalanche's entire goal is to protect the planet, and the planet is using the Whispers to protect its future? Why can Cloud see the future? Why does Red XIII just know stuff after Aerith touches him? The party decided to kill fate after the Whisper literallys spend the last 30 minutes of the game saving Barret, and saving the party repeatedly?

Why does Sephiroth know the future? How did he stop time when he appeared during Aerith's introduction? How is Zack seeing the whispers in the past?

The ending only serves to introduce more and more unexplained nonsense, that we presumable have to wait another 3 to 5 years to get any resolution on.

Can you explain how you think it's inconsistent?

The themes of technology vs nature are still there. Struggling with the past. The drive to prove oneself. Personal growth. The philosophy of "the ends justify the means". How does fighting Whisper Harbinger and Sephiroth, and taking a stand against destiny invalidate all of that?

THIS irritates me the most. Some of the changes just downright betray themes of loss, tragedy, even horror and how those things shape the world around them. This game seems to want to undo a lot of that including, Avalance dindunothin wrong it was all Shinra! From Shinra being the ones who caused the Reactor tragedy, to Avalanche actually managing to evacuate Sector 7 and avoiding a tragedy of mass death(as Corneo attests to during the Leslie quest), Biggs surviving, to there being no slaughter at the Shinra building, and finally Aerith's desire to change fate, and avoid the "wrong" future that we know as FFVII's true story.

The games whole theme of changing fate and avoiding the "bad" future is totally out of line with FFVII's themes of spiritualism, loss, and tragedy.

On top of that, the themes of Fate, and fighting your destiny are not the themes of Final Fantasy VII, these are the themes of FFXV and the XIII trilogy, and these themes become the sole focus on the last chapter.

 

[mango drank]

There definitely are plot holes, I've pointed them out in my past posts. Shit like Sephiroth being helped by the whispers when he seems to want to change the future, the party being goaded into killing Fate by Sephiroth when they don't want to help him, but they do it anyway? The whispers remaining after you defeat fate.

Why does Aerith know that FFVII's future is "the bad one" and why are they willing to destroy Fate against the will of the planet, when Avalanche's entire goal is to protect the planet, and the planet is using the Whispers to protect its future? Why can Cloud see the future? Why does Red XIII just know stuff after Aerith touches him? The party decided to kill fate after the Whisper literallys spend the last 30 minutes of the game saving Barret, and saving the party repeatedly?

FF7R: brought to you by the Japanese equivalents of George Lucas, Rian Johnson, and JJ Abrams.

 

[Paracelsus]

I think the increase in visual fidelity and gameplay freedom makes this appear larger than it actually is. In the original game, you can use powerful magic and do fantastic moves, but it doesn't look "superhero" because it's constrained within a PS1-era turn based combat system.

Even if they don't follow the OG plot one to one, I'm fine with that. I've played the original game many times over the years. I'm in the mood for some change that keeps the spirit and themes of the original intact, which I think this game has.


Well sure, I hated season 7 and 8 of GoT and it has made me not want to rewatch the previous seasons at all. I don't get that feeling from this game. I don't think there are plotholes, and I don't think it's nonsense. It had a lot of great callbacks and respected the source material, unlike the GoT later seasons.


Can you explain how you think it's inconsistent?

The themes of technology vs nature are still there. Struggling with the past. The drive to prove oneself. Personal growth. The philosophy of "the ends justify the means". How does fighting Whisper Harbinger and Sephiroth, and taking a stand against destiny invalidate all of that?

To put it very politely: nobody gives a shit about technology vs nature, and the other themes are generic ass spins you put to pretend the game is remembered because of that.

It pisses on the theme of death, life, death and life as part of a whole, they talk about this elusive "Promised Land" all the time and even if it's vaguely open up to interpretation, it basically turns out it's death.
Innocent people getting caught in the Avalanche vs Shinra crossfire, then Avalanche themselves being dispatched like rats. Zack helping Cloud and being torn to pieces for the trouble (and the original did it better than CC, no stupid spiel about legacy which misses the entire point behind Cloud's personality, no pomp and circumstances), Barret having to deal with Dyne, Cloud and Tifa dealing plenty with death and destruction since youth.
Aerith's death was crafted to feel grounded, real. It wasn't meant to be a bombastic death, it was a gut punch, and actually avoidable.
Holy was a done deal, Aerith didn't wanna die, she had no plan to, it wasn't Destiny "like capital D rotflmao". Maybe she felt it coming, but she didn't wanna die, not yet.
Yes, her death saved their asses at the end, but it just happened, just like death happens.
Aerith was also the most lively part of the party, your white mage, she was a flower in the gutter, the ray of hope in that Midgar cesspit.
She was like a mother figure driving a cast of losers forward, she's actually the first character that deals with Cloud as Cloud, not even Tifa can say that.

And then she's gone, irreversibly and they have no time to mourn, they have to come up with something so they move on, her death is like a shockwave that triggers change in the story and the party, just like Zack's death was one of the biggest elements to ruin Cloud's psyche for good.

Personal growth? No shit, what game you know that doesn't have a character arc? They're all guilty of something and have to own up to it. Cloud's entire undoing is that he never tried being himself and succeed as such, Barret didn't care for the planet in the beginning, he only wanted Shinra dead for what they did to him, Cid being #metoo blaming her for no reason etc.
Same as "dealing with the past", as generic as it comes, not the main deal.

So now you obviously ask: how does the Remake impact all this?
Timelines and death retcons to lead into a happy ending, it's all garbage that takes away from the grittiness of the real FFVII, the original FFVII.
Tragedy can never feel as impactful in a multiverse scenario, that's why american comic books are a joke.
Spiderman is dead, Superman is dead, woooow.

I've read comments like "how about you kill Tifa instead of Aerith, or maybe they'll kill Cloud this time". Like, that's how it works, death is impactful because you can just trade it through fighting ghosts and by opening up timelines.

tl;dr if that's their plan, pull a Kingdom Hearts (everybody is alive with 3 clones each), they revived Aerith and killed FFVII in the process.

 

[Rentahamster]

To put it very politely: nobody gives a shit about technology vs nature, and the other themes are generic ass spins you put to pretend the game is remembered because of that.

Hey, like it or not, those themes are a very real part of the OG. Your take might be different, but that doesn't disappear what's actually in the game.

t pisses on the theme of death, life, death and life as part of a whole, they talk about this elusive "Promised Land" all the time and even if it's vaguely open up to interpretation, it basically turns out it's death.
Innocent people getting caught in the Avalanche vs Shinra crossfire, then Avalanche themselves being dispatched like rats. Zack helping Cloud and being torn to pieces for the trouble, Barret having to deal with Dyne, Cloud and Tifa dealing plenty with death and destruction since youth.
Aerith's death was crafted to feel grounded, real. It wasn't meant to be a bombastic death, it was a gut punch, and actually avoidable.
Holy was a done deal, Aerith didn't wanna die, she had no plan to, it wasn't Destiny "like capital D rotflmao". Maybe she felt it coming, but she didn't wanna die, not yet.
Yes, her death saved their asses at the end, but it just happened, just like death happens.
Aerith was also the most lively part of the party, your white mage, she was a flower in the gutter, the ray of hope in that Midgar cesspit.
She was like a mother figure driving a cast of losers forward, she's actually the first character that deals with Cloud as Cloud, not even Tifa can say that.

And then she's gone, irreversibly and they have no time to mourn, they have to come up with something so they move on, her death is like a shockwave that triggers change in the story and the party, just like Zack's death was one of the biggest elements to ruin Cloud's psyche for good.

Personal growth? No shit, what game you know that doesn't have a character arc? They're all guilty of something and have to own up to it. Cloud's entire undoing is that he never tried being himself and succeed as such, Barret didn't care for the planet in the beginning, he only wanted Shinra dead for what they did to him, Cid being #metoo blaming her for no reason etc.
Same as "dealing with the past", as generic as it comes, not the main deal.

This isn't invalidated by the remake.

So now you obviously ask: how does the Remake impact all this?
Timelines and death retcons to lead into a happy ending takes away from the grittiness of the real FFVII, the original FFVII.
Tragedy can never feel the same in a multiverse scenario, that's why american comic books are a joke.
Spiderman is dead, Superman is dead, woooow.

I've read comments like "how about you kill Tifa instead of Aerith, or maybe they'll kill Cloud this time". Like, that's how it works, death is impactful because you can just trade it through fighting ghosts and by opening up timelines.

That's a lot of extrapolating you're doing there. Facing destiny is metacommentary for how the story has already been told and the entire plot already exists in our hearts and minds. That's the destiny. This framing wouldn't exist without the original game. Whether they go with multiverse or separate timelines, who knows. It can be done well, it can be done badly. We'll asses that when the next game gets here.

Branching story paths are pretty common in RPGs, too.

 

[Dacon]

This isn't invalidated by the remake.

...The ending is all about invalidating those themes. SEVERAL instances of tragedy are averted, responsibility removed from the heroes, and the entire point of the ending is about changing the "wrong" future, WHICH INVALIDATES it.

Branching story paths are pretty common in RPGs, too.

Yes, in western rpgs, based off of player choice, it's not common in JRPGS.

Alternate timelines, dimensions and worlds are not common in JRPGS to my experience.

 

[Paracelsus]

Hey, like it or not, those themes are a very real part of the OG. Your take might be different, but that doesn't disappear what's actually in the game.


This isn't invalidated by the remake.


That's a lot of extrapolating you're doing there. Facing destiny is metacommentary for how the story has already been told and the entire plot already exists in our hearts and minds. That's the destiny. This framing wouldn't exist without the original game. Whether they go with multiverse or separate timelines, who knows. It can be done well, it can be done badly. We'll asses that when the next game gets here.

I'm stating what FFVII is remembered for. Keyword: stating. If there wasn't all that tragedy, nobody would care about them going all Greenpeace on Shinra.
As a matter of fact, most the tragedy is basically Aerith's death. Not "a death", her death specifically.

This isn't invalidated by the remake.

FFVII becoming one path of many is invalidating the meaning/emotional impact of death. Death is a path with no return and the only path awaiting for you.

Branching story paths are pretty common in RPGs, too.

For one thing it's ok if the game is announced to have paths, and second paths are not timelines, plus one route is always canon no matter how loud the authors screech against it.

Facing destiny is metacommentary for how the story has already been told and the entire plot already exists in our hearts and minds. That's the destiny.

And I'm the one extrapolating? That's quite the stretch considering they've been messing with the FFVII plot since the early 2000s and they consistently made it worse and worse.

This framing wouldn't exist without the original game.

And this framing is so stupid it retroactively ruins the original, it's like "I can't write anything new, so I'll go back to ruin the original, but I'll add some meta-commentary and that makes it ok".
Notice how people who have been hating on Square for over a decade are bending over backwards to defend them because it's called "Final Fantasy VII [Something]".

Whether they go with multiverse or separate timelines, who knows.

Both ruin the original. You (as in you) shouldn't get any other outcome.

It can be done well, it can be done badly.

History (some of it very recent) says it doesn't work because it's not about writing something new, it's about hating on the old for being better than the new.
The ghosts are basically the "evil" fans stopping the "poor" developers from going Kingdom Hearts all over the plot. That's the "extrapolating".

We'll asses that when the next game gets here.

Assess what? It's done, the shark was jumped when they kept Zack alive.
The only way to fix it is either

A. They kill everybody that should die (Zack, Aerith, whichever Jessie is left alive, Biggs, Wedge) some other way
B. They realize the happy ending some fans unwisely want leads to Sephiroth winning, so the now-surviving cast has to undo the timeline and go back to OG FFVII.

That's it, any other branch is disastrous.

 

[Rentahamster]

I'm stating what FFVII is remembered for. Keyword: stating. If there wasn't all that tragedy, nobody would care about them going all Greenpeace on Shinra.
As a matter of fact, most the tragedy is basically Aerith's death. Not "a death", her death specifically.

You're basing a lot of this on a game that's not even out yet. How can you be so sure that events that portray tragedy and loss aren't going to be highlighted in future games?

Assess what? It's done, the shark was jumped when they kept Zack alive.
The only way to fix it is either

A. They kill everybody that should die (Zack, Aerith, Jessie whichever is left alive, Biggs, Wedge) some other way
B. They realize the happy ending some fans unwisely want leads to Sephiroth winning, so the now-surviving cast has to undo the timeline and go back to OG FFVII.

That's it, any other branch is disastrous.

I think you're taking too much inspiration from Avengers Endgame and applying it to this for arbitrary reasons.

This is all just speculation at this point.

 

[Dacon]

I'm still hoping Jenova Dreamweaver just made everyone hallucinate the ending lmao.

 

[bargeparty]

I've been thinking this... If they really wanted to expand the side characters in midgar why didn't they start a while before Cloud shows up? You could have played as Tifa and Barret helping out the people in the slums and working with avalanche.

Cloud doesn't give a shit about these people, at all. He's just in this for money. Build those other relationships so when the plate falls you might actually care as well (and don't have people miraculously survive).

Then afterwards have some time for Cloud, Tifa and Barret to help out those left from Sector 7 (I skipped those side quests. Couldn't be bothered dealing with more shitty quests and awful npcs.)

You can start to have Cloud show some compassion as he becomes determined to save Aerith.

Also unrelated but having a separate motorcycle sequence before the Shinra HQ escape takes the wind out of that sequence completely. Also to note how fucking awful the camera was during the highway boss fight.

 

[Rentahamster]

I've been thinking this... If they really wanted to expand the side characters in midgar why didn't they start a while before Cloud shows up? You could have played as Tifa and Barret helping out the people in the slums and working with avalanche.

Cloud doesn't give a shit about these people, at all. He's just in this for money. Build those other relationships so when the plate falls you might actually care as well (and don't have people miraculously survive).

Then afterwards have some time for Cloud, Tifa and Barret to help out those left from Sector 7 (I skipped those side quests. Couldn't be bothered dealing with more shitty quests and awful npcs.)

You can start to have Cloud show some compassion as he becomes determined to save Aerith.

Also unrelated but having a separate motorcycle sequence before the Shinra HQ escape takes the wind out of that sequence completely. Also to note how fucking awful the camera was during the highway boss fight.

That would have messed up an iconic opening scene, but I guess it's possible if they did it right.

 

[bargeparty]

That would have messed up an iconic opening scene, but I guess it's possible if they did it right.

But you can mess with everything else?

 

[GymWolf]

Finished the game yesterday, the new story bits are one giant hot turd, nomura strikes again, fuck him.

 

[Dacon]

Finished the game yesterday, the new story bits are one giant hot turd, nomura strikes again, fuck him.

I know I've said this before, but you can't lay all the blame on Nomura. An entire team came up with this stuff, and Nomura isn't the only director and he isn't the scenario writer.

 

[GymWolf]

I know I've said this before, but you can't lay all the blame on Nomura. An entire team came up with this stuff, and Nomura isn't the only director and he isn't the scenario writer.

Fuck all the team then.

 

[Rentahamster]

But you can mess with everything else?

You can mess with everything, as long as you do it right. In terms of synchronizing story beats from the beginning, you'd probably want to start off on the same note for maximum nostalgia feels, but just because I can't think of a better solution doesn't mean there isn't one.

Is there any particular reason why introducing side characters for this game before the main character is more advantageous?

 

[pLow7]

Finished the game yesterday, the new story bits are one giant hot turd, nomura strikes again, fuck him.

Disagree, based Nomura striked again. I'm happy they went that way.

 

[Geki-D]

Finished the game yesterday, the new story bits are one giant hot turd, nomura strikes again, fuck him.

Seems like your average Japanese anime guff to me. Bar a very few exceptions, I can't really think of many Japanese fantasy setting games with a better story than this.

 

[GymWolf]

Seems like your average Japanese anime guff to me. Bar a very few exceptions, I can't really think of many Japanese fantasy setting games with a better story than this.

it's kingdom hearts trash tier, they literally raped the original game plot for new generations gamers who love that shitty type of stuff.

the original plot was still anime troupe but it was light years better than this shit.

 

[Rentahamster]

Literally huh?

 

[GymWolf]

Literally huh?

i never saw the new indiana jones when i discover that shia lebouf was in the cast

 

[Rentahamster]

i never saw the new indiana jones when i discover that shia lebouf was in the cast

I didn't watch it either. I have more important things to do, like arranging my rock garden.

 

[Rentahamster]

Dang you beat Bahamut that quick? Make a vid dude.

Here ya go. New personal record.



(If anyone has problems with the secret boss battle, here's a vid I made destroying them in 3 minutes)

 

[Kev Kev]

Also one of the very few things I do know about classic FFVII is that enemies have a ATB bar too but not in this so some bosses just spammed attack after attack after attack.

oh man, i never thought of that. we should be able to see the enemies ATB... kind of bullshit that they don't have to play by those same rules. good point

I really hated the boss rally at the end. Fuck that, it just got tiresome. Robot sawfish, then Jenova, then Rufus, then Arsenal, then car robot, then 3 whispers, then whisper Bahamut, then 3 whispers again, then Sephiroth... Just stop. I hate it when JRPGs to this, though often it's just one boss but with 10 different phases. It's just pointless filler.

100% agreed. its so dumb and feels like they are just desperately trying to make it feel more epic. thankfully the bosses weren't too crazy hard

 

[Liftplus]

I like that they went with alternate timeline but... I would still love to play the original game (with original combat system) but with the graphics from remake :/

 

[Kev Kev]

I like that they went with alternate timeline but... I would still love to play the original game (with original combat system) but with the graphics from remake :/

i would fucking eat up some DLC that did this. just have characters line up when a battle starts, just like the original, add in some tweaks for the monsters (like an ATB bar fr starters), maybe slow things down a tad... and cut everything after the last mini bike game.... ok that sounds like an absurd amount of work and lets be honest, its square so itd take 2 years just for the dlc m i rite

but yeah that would be sick.... although, at times i really, really fucking enjoy the new combat system so...

 

[Dark Oni]

I like that they went with alternate timeline but... I would still love to play the original game (with original combat system) but with the graphics from remake :/

I think that's what most people were hoping for with this remake