E.T. Waifu
Member
Did she say that in the original script?
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Fret Runner
Member
Cloud: Sephiroth... good evening. As a duly designated representative of the City, County and State of Midgar, I order you to cease any and all supernatural activity and return forthwith to your place of origin or to the nearest convenient parallel dimension.
Aerith: That oughta do it. Thanks very much, Cloud.
Aerith: That oughta do it. Thanks very much, Cloud.
Javthusiast
Banned
That is exactly what they want you to think. Her death is too iconic and by making the players believe they now can change the outcome, they can truly hurt people now by still killing her off, which will be even more impactful with how her character already got more fleshed out than in the original simply through better writing and performances.
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buizel
Banned
It's in the PS1 version if that's what you mean. Be retarded if they took it out (;
E.T. Waifu
Member
I meant the Japanese script. I'm asking because the original FF7 is known for having a not stellar localization.
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Silvawuff
Member
I loved the twist. Nomura may be guilty of some pretty contrived and spread-out narratives in other games, but he didn't have an original work backbone like FFVII to build on. What they've done with this game is, humbly, pure genius. I think they took a big risk and it's paying off, for new and OG fans alike. I'm very excited for the next installment, whatever may happen. A lot of people asked for a remake, not a remaster. A remake is what we're getting. I was kinda wondering why they kept the "remake" subtitle, and now it makes more sense.
ExpandKong
Banned
They’ll probably have an emotional cross-dimensional goodbye scene at the end of the last part. Wah
Boneless
Member
It does seem that they are going in the direction of powerful scenes like that. This is obvious from how they played out the Shinra scene, from the renowned scene where you find a eerie Shinra building with dead people, to the mediocre pulp they changed it too.
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Dacon
Banned
This is more of a sequel/re-imaging than it is a remake. The whole Whispers plot basically gives them freedom to do whatever they want, and ignore what they want if they deem it too difficult to attempted to recreate.
Vawn
Banned
For most of the first game. But the ending show it may be more of a sequel than a remake going forward.
PanzerAzel
Member
People asked for a remake, they didn’t ask for a complete abandonment of what defines the original game. What they’re looking to do here is FAR past crossing the line of what a remake is. This is completely new territory, and the usage of remake is nothing but deceptive usage of the term to use nostalgia to sell novelty.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
What is it that defines the original game?
pulga
Banned
Beat this yesterday, I kinda fucking love that the next games can go in any direction BUT this is Nomura we're talking about. Kingdom Hearts has left me very, very, very wary about his alternate timeline/dimensions bullshit. This could go very, very, very wrong if someone doesn't check the guy.
PanzerAzel
Member
A specific narrative told in a specific universe encompassing characters and their specific arcs respective to it.
That’s the core of what people treasure about the original, and that’s why they’re fine with alterations such as to the mechanics, aesthetics, and the like. But change the narrative to such a drastic degree (as this ending portends to do) and you’re gutting what has defined the game up to this point.
TyphoonStruggle
Member
I don’t exactly hate the ending because they can go in a new direction.
It’s because a great majority of things that make the FF7 Remake good is from the original FF7.
Some of the new stuff is okay. But this direction of fate/destiny is completely bullshit.
And Square hasn’t made a decent mainline FF since FF10.
FF12 shit
FF13 shit
FF13-2 shit
FF13-3 shit
FF15 shit
I have no confidence that the new things they do will be good. So with the option of going with what has worked (original FF7) compared to something new, I vastly prefer they just Remake based on the old stuff.
“But the purists!” Square has already demonstrated that their new stuff is shit. I think we all have legitimate reasons to be concerned about the new direction Nomura may take FF7.
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Finished up Normal mode. Took my time, tried to find everything without resorting to guides, soaked everything in, 62 hours. Only missed a few things (mainly some Materia duplicates, and a couple of manuscripts) but got all the weapons so pretty happy with that. Gonna have a break then start Hard Mode. The game was like some sort of glorious mix of FF7, Metal Gear Solid and TLoU. That’s how i felt anyway, to simplify it massively.
Looking forward to part 2 but honestly, i can’t help but have feeling of strong deflation after seeing that “ending”. Won’t lie I’m disgusted at the thought of “Alternative Timelines”, with Zack alive, Sephiroph being a different version of him, the potential of Aeri(s) miraculously also staying alive like Biggs somehow lived and Barret was saved by those annoying ghosts. It’s just too much for me, all these changes. The bit where Barrett gets stabbed was the bit where I started getting annoyed. I was just thinking, “erm, yeah, wtf is this?” thankfully he lived so i forgot about it, but then you have that big silly ending.
Almost wondered if they were wrapping the game up in that ending, rather than continue to release more. Felt like it. The subtlety of the original escape from midgar, walking through the door and the FF7 Overworld theme first hits and you have the whole world ahead of you to explore.. that was perfect.
So all in all perfect game until the last few hours. I hate the ending and the insinuation of all sorts of plot changes. Basically we now know anything can happen, Aeris can live, Tifa might die, Cloud might die and we play half the story with Zack. That’s why anything to do with “timelines” etc is dumb to me. It’s a cop out. It means you can’t decide, so you write 2 different scenarios to get both in. Advent Children isn’t FF7. Its a silly film from 16 or 17 years ago which Square made entirely to recoup some money after failed projects. So i’m baffled we have large elements of this game now referencing it.
Another annoyance is it’s almost like Cloud is already at near full power. Surely the hero is meant to gradually gain power as part of the story? They seem to have become confused stuck between a series of games and thinking this is THE GAME, with no more to come.
Overall an amazing game. 10/10 for the achievement, the boss battles, the atmosphere of FF7 was captured brilliantly and the effort, but 7/10 for the story, because there’s worrying signs for the next instalments.
Looking forward to part 2 but honestly, i can’t help but have feeling of strong deflation after seeing that “ending”. Won’t lie I’m disgusted at the thought of “Alternative Timelines”, with Zack alive, Sephiroph being a different version of him, the potential of Aeri(s) miraculously also staying alive like Biggs somehow lived and Barret was saved by those annoying ghosts. It’s just too much for me, all these changes. The bit where Barrett gets stabbed was the bit where I started getting annoyed. I was just thinking, “erm, yeah, wtf is this?” thankfully he lived so i forgot about it, but then you have that big silly ending.
Almost wondered if they were wrapping the game up in that ending, rather than continue to release more. Felt like it. The subtlety of the original escape from midgar, walking through the door and the FF7 Overworld theme first hits and you have the whole world ahead of you to explore.. that was perfect.
So all in all perfect game until the last few hours. I hate the ending and the insinuation of all sorts of plot changes. Basically we now know anything can happen, Aeris can live, Tifa might die, Cloud might die and we play half the story with Zack. That’s why anything to do with “timelines” etc is dumb to me. It’s a cop out. It means you can’t decide, so you write 2 different scenarios to get both in. Advent Children isn’t FF7. Its a silly film from 16 or 17 years ago which Square made entirely to recoup some money after failed projects. So i’m baffled we have large elements of this game now referencing it.
Another annoyance is it’s almost like Cloud is already at near full power. Surely the hero is meant to gradually gain power as part of the story? They seem to have become confused stuck between a series of games and thinking this is THE GAME, with no more to come.
Overall an amazing game. 10/10 for the achievement, the boss battles, the atmosphere of FF7 was captured brilliantly and the effort, but 7/10 for the story, because there’s worrying signs for the next instalments.
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Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
your opinion is shit
FranXico
Member
They should be sued for false advertising then.
LingLingFat
Neo Member
If you knew the author, you can tell him that the line is still there in the PSN version of FFVII (he asked about it at the end of the article)
Silvawuff
Member
I think they followed that, and expanded on it. Let's not forget the original localization for this game was awful. A lot of what we're seeing was probably intended for the OG game, but never made the cut from the original scope of the first game.
I will say it's a definite concern if they're using this fate-change narrative to employ some lazy game design farther into the story, but my question is...why bother? This game has excellent production values. A lot of the assets, engine, mechanics, and core design are all built. It's literally just an asset pump for any of the sequels. SE has marketed and played up this game far more than I've seen for any of their titles released this last decade. It wouldn't make sense for them to get lazy after building all the hype, not to mention a very fun game. I think they're really all-in on this, and I can see that with the care and attention they gave this title.
If they do drop the ball, let criticism go where it is due, but until then it's just conjecture to assume they're going to shit on the narrative and disappoint millions of players because of a twist near the end of the game. I feel like it will be an emergent meta-plot that will follow the narrative the way we remember it, and it will pop up at certain critical points like it did in this game. It's going to be a fun ride getting there if the next game is anything close to what this one delivered.
"FF7 was good, but what if it could be better?"
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Werewolf Jones
Member
The localization in the original is bad but it adds to the legacy of the game. "This guy are sick." "Off course" and a bunch of others, this game being it's own thing is fine but claiming it'll be superior to the original?
They'll fuck it up down the line and you know it.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
That was still there, from my perspective. I also treasure that story from the original, and from what I've seen so far, the remake holds that in respect, keeping the core themes and characterizations intact, while deepening character development even further (more back story on side characters, and more meaningful character interactions with main characters, giving them more chances to interact) and adding new stuff to keep suspense and incorporate a new dimension that has lots of potential storyline and gameplay implications (the whispers).
I basically disagree that this statement:
Is an accurate characterization of what happened. Much of the charm that defines the OG is still in the remake. They didn't abandon the original. They took what was good about it and fleshed it out a lot more with awesome graphics and music. It's an impressive feat. To use a cliche phrase, it really does feel like a love letter to the original game.
Boneless
Member
Uhm, did you play the final chapters?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Uhm, yes.
Boneless
Member
I mean, we've already beaten faith itself in a special dimension, how can we get any more powerful? Also we are giving Sephiroth a run for his money, and people saying that he's from the future, that makes it even worse because he should've been a lot more powerful.
Basically, the scope is completely ruined.
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Boneless
Member
I doubt they will keep it in. In the original it had such a strong effect as it demonstrated the power of Sephiroth, who was still a mysterious character. By now, we've seen him, and fought him.
T8SC
Gold Member
Yeah, one of my biggest issues with the game is that Sephiroth is constantly in your face and hes no longer a mysterious figure. Even one of the songs was titled "Following the black caped man" (Or words to that effect), a powerful guy who killed President Shinra, shrouded in mystery.... and now hes that guy who's basically just taunting you and being a dick for 35hrs.
PanzerAzel
Member
What we've seen so far only encompasses 5-10% of the original game. I'd agree that 90% of this remake maintains thematic and characterization consistency, sure, but this is an argument involving the macro.
It is or isn't an accurate characterization?
Again, for the majority of this episode I can't disagree, but I'm looking to the long-term. This remake comes off, it reeks to me, not as a love letter to the original source, but more as a meta commentary on the resentment and restrictions the developers feel towards a creative obligation expected of them by the fans. Something that they basically flipped the bird to using this alternative timeline meta bullshit to free themselves to whatever creative predilections they so choose come the future. You can make the argument that this particular episode holds true to its source, and again, I don't disagree....until the very ending. From here on out its anyone's guess as to where this is going, and I'm on the side of betting that wherever they go, it is going to eschew the defining aspect of FFVII as I noted. Remember, we have only seen about 5-10% of the total game as we know it, and the final 10% of that initial 5-10% opens up the potential to make the remaining 90% unrecognizable.
If they don't have the intention of making something entirely new, or new to the extent that it largely abandons what makes FFVII FFVII, why did they take such a drastic step to enable themselves to do so?
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stickkidsam
Member
One of the biggest hurdles this Remake now has to contend with is threat escalation. Like others have pointed out, we went toe to toe with Sephiroth and we haven't even BEGAN the actual adventure. This is the fuckin prelude but we've fought the final boss.
If the heroes are in the same vicinity as this guy it should feel like we barely escaped with our lives. Right now it feels like we just beat a god and the literal flow of time itself. Maybe Sephiroth is toying with us? This is going to be a wild ride regardless.
Where do you go from here without making things feel completely contrived?
If the heroes are in the same vicinity as this guy it should feel like we barely escaped with our lives. Right now it feels like we just beat a god and the literal flow of time itself. Maybe Sephiroth is toying with us? This is going to be a wild ride regardless.
Where do you go from here without making things feel completely contrived?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
There are lots of games where you fight the main antagonist multiple times throughout the course of the game. It's not a big deal.
I can imagine even more set pieces still possible, and I'm sure the devs can too.
Dont be afraid to dream bigger.
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bargeparty
Member
It was a whole premise of the original though. It's just going to get ff15 levels of stupid, or dragonball z or whatever.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
No, not really. I'd argue that it actually does fit in the premise of the original. Over the course of the game you encounter Sephiroth many times and you have to fight several iterations of JENOVA pieces as boss battles. These "Sephiroths" are "copies" (not really but that's what they call them) - the men in black robes that are wandering around.
The "Sephiroth" you went toe to toe with in FF7R isn't even the real Sephiroth. The real Sephiroth is chilling at North Crater.
Dacon
Banned
Eeeeeexcept when it comes to environmental assets, level design, npc design, and lipsyncing outside of major story cutcenes.
The game has laughably bad visual inconsistency, to the point where they use a low res image for an entire background in some scenes(using static images as skyboxes/backgrounds isn't uncommon in games mind you, but they could have at least made them high resolution).
Ps4 image capture isn't the best, but you can still make out how bad the resolution on that background is, it's even more apparent in motion while playing. This isnt the only instance of that either.
For a small portion of the greater experience. There's an entire world to build, several different locales, many characters, dozens of monsters, cutscenes and dialogue. There is still a ton of content to adapt, that is, if they even intend to.
This is exactly WHY the ending is so annoying to so many people. They got so much right, to follow it up with this nonsense that is completely out of line with FFVII's core theme, and more in line with games like Kingdom Hearts, and FFXIII's trilogy. Fate, alternate timelines and time travel were NEVER a part of FFVII's core themes, and franchises that usually introduce those themes do not fair well in my experience.
Isn't that the entire point of the ending? To untether the future games from the plot of the original, to do its own thing? If not, what was the point of it at all?
The last thing FFVII needs is dragonball z levels of power creep, where battles become more and more over the top in destruction and character ability. I think this persons point is, if we do indeed revisit the events of the OG after that ending, how can we believe that any of the same experiences can pose a believable challenge to the party, when they defeated a god of fate and managed to fend off Sephiroth?
When Cloud is cutting chunks of buildings in half? Part of what made their original adventure so gripping was just how much the cards where stacked against them. They were the underdogs going up against a mysterious force of unknown power, and a corporate giant that had near unlimited resources.
Now Avalanche are superheroes right out of the gate(literally the gate of midgar). That in itself changes the nature of their journey.
Dacon
Banned
We don't actually even know who this Sephiroth is, and in terms of power and abilities he seems much more in like with Advent Children Sephiroth.
Right down to him sporting the one black wing, and throwing buildings at people using the exact same gestures. Regardless, he is incredibly powerful, so much so you wouldn't think Avalanche would be able to fight him.
Dr Bass
Member
Uh, they clearly did not follow any of the original characters or themes by flushing them all down the toilet at the end. How could they "follow and expand" on something they burned to the ground? I have a feeling most of the people who like the changes probably didn't play the original when it came out. For the life of me I cannot figure out why taking a game that is literally considered part of the pantheon of gaming and completely undoing it is "genius", let alone even halfway considered. It's seriously one of the dumbest moves I think any company could take.
This is just my opinion but every argument I've seen supporting the changes sounds like cognitive dissonance. All of it is "Oh, it's great because now they can do what they want!" or "They couldn't recreate the amount of material in FF7 anyway, this gives them freedom!." Or how about "No remake could live up to the hopes of the fans of the original, so this is good!" Notice, that none of this is an actual argument of quality, but instead rationalization of decisions made after their discovery. Nobody asked for this. I can explain why Aerith's death in the original has meaning to the story, and to the original creators. How the game deals with themes of loss and sacrifice. Think of the very last shot before the credits in the original. All of that is just flushed. Practically all of the changes are silly, juvenile, and remove any sense of gravity from the story.
I guess FF7 remake likely won't kill Aerith this time around, but it did kill Final Fantasy 7.
bargeparty
Member
Eh i dunno. I'm playing through the OG now but it's been a long time. So far I'm at Kalm and all Cloud has said is that Sephiroth is beyond what anyone in the group can imagine, basically.
I definitely don't want Cloud and Sephiroth flying through the air like Noctis was at the end.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Did we play the same Final Fantasy 7?
The Most Powerful Materia Combinations In Final Fantasy 7, Ranked
Final Fantasy 7 features a wide array of skills and abilities via Materia, but which combinations are considered the strongest?
www.thegamer.com
DBZ levels of ridiculous materia combinations is what made FF7 so memorable to a lot of people. End game FF7 is a carnival of broken materia combinations.
Dacon
Banned
Did we play the same Final Fantasy 7?
]DBZ levels of ridiculous materia combinations is what made FF7 so memorable to a lot of people. End game FF7 is a carnival of broken materia combinations.The Most Powerful Materia Combinations In Final Fantasy 7, Ranked
Final Fantasy 7 features a wide array of skills and abilities via Materia, but which combinations are considered the strongest?
Dude, that's gameplay, the party wasn't busting out Knights of the Round to decimate their enemies during story scenes. I also would not compare the material system to the stuff people do in DBZ, which literally consists of feats like teleportation, blowing up literal planets, and punching down mountains and buildings.
The characters clearly had their own limitations during the story line and cutscenes. I'm not saying the party doesn't become powerful in the game, I'm saying that they're too powerful already at what is essentially the BEGINNING of the story. They're fighting time dragons, Fate, and Sephiroth man.
They're no need for snark bruh, I agree with you on a lot about the game. I just have my misgivings.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
You dunno about what? You can't compare the original and remake one to one and say that just because something is different, then that's bad. These are two different games. Given that FF7R ends at Midgar, you kinda need to involve Sephiroth a little more just to keep the narrative clear and have a coherent beginning, middle, climax, and end to this part of the story.
Sephiroth flies in the original game. Cloud can't. In Advent Children it sorta looks like he does, but he just jumps really high. Because he's strong.
Dacon
Banned
My issue with this whole thing is I feel this isn't what they advertised. With all the talk about being faithful to the original, they create an ending that's all about them doing whatever they want in the future.
THIS irritates me the most. Some of the changes just downright betray themes of loss, tragedy, even horror and how those things shape the world around them. This game seems to want to undo a lot of that including, Avalance dindunothin wrong it was all Shinra! From Shinra being the ones who caused the Reactor tragedy, to Avalanche actually managing to evacuate Sector 7 and avoiding a tragedy of mass death(as Corneo attests to during the Leslie quest), Biggs surviving, to there being no slaughter at the Shinra building, and finally Aerith's desire to change fate, and avoid the "wrong" future that we know as FFVII's true story.
The games whole theme of changing fate and avoiding the "bad" future is totally out of line with FFVII's themes of spiritualism, loss, and tragedy.
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Collin
Banned
This long af Easy Allies video helped me appreciate and understand the ending slightly more. I think they said it best that the ending does have some very interesting implications that has potential for future entries but how it was handled was awkward and stilted. But if the next part pulls off some of the crazier theories talked about here, it could maybe make for a cool couple of games, even though I still think I would have preferred a more faithful retelling.
Entroyp
Member
I absolutely adored the new intro and the first mako reactor bombing run. After that, the I felt something was amiss. Maybe the slow pace of the game, the pointless side quests, silly story additions, and, most of all, the combat. I reached the point where you fight those three thingies that are supposed to be Cloud, Barret, and Tifa from the future? What is this shit? The original was perfect already, so why ruin it with all the convoluted shit?
Anyways, I’m done with it, I won’t bother finishing the game and I’m not interested in the next one, given how I despised the combat too.
Anyways, I’m done with it, I won’t bother finishing the game and I’m not interested in the next one, given how I despised the combat too.
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Dacon
Banned
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
What don't you like about it?
Secret_Lover
Member
Let´s not pretend like the original narrative wasn´t already a bunch of hot anime nonsense.
Kumomeme
Member
FFXII is amazing
FFXIV is amazing..last year expansion Shadowbringers being hailed as one of the best final fantasy experience, and first expansion Heavensward also amazing which is at beginning most of people thought that it will never been topped until new expansion landed last year
FFXI also being praised..i havent played yet
13-2 is decent
LR13 more like spin off, but pretty good
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