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[Kusarigama]

Just seems like more Discord level type FUD to me. The PS5s SSD has caused more meltdowns than the Series X 12TFs in my opinion.

It's really sad to see people behave this way.

Xbox executives are also to blame for these toxic people. It's because they continue to associate themselves with these trolls and Greenberg himself trolls with his recent reaction to the Unreal 5 demo on PS5. Constantly for years just talk and talk and very little delivering on those talks.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

If all the XSX does provide a slightly higher resolution most people will not notice that. However something like half the load times or the elimination of them might be more noticeable than a slight increase in resolution.

I know I say this alot but we have to wait and see what the real differences are. Luckily it won't be much longer until we see them.

Yes I think ps5 will have easier advantages to show off. People used to go mad for phone speed tests for ex and it's easy to show casuals which is 'better'.

Ultimately both will do fine and right now I'm impatiently awaiting to see the receipts (games) and only then will we get a true indication where things are heading.

Right now all the I/O, SSD speeds, XVA etc talk boils down to one comparable element both Microsoft and Sony have stated officially.

XSX I/O = 5 Zen 2 cores + 'other'
PS5 I/O = 11 Zen 2 cores + 2x co-processors and coherency engines + other

I'm sure both will have their own custom bits within the GPU/CPU (e.g. texture filters, GPU scrubbers) that are yet to be announced? In fact Microsoft seem to have gone out of their way to not show the internal SSD in the teardown videos so maybe they have some secret sauce there we don't know about yet?

Theres definitely more to learn but we know Microsoft are that brash company who if they have something better they push it. We see this with Greenberg example.

I think Microsoft is naming that they have the same things and want almost instant loading etc so people think ok so both the same but in reality they haven't invested in the same hardware in io. But obviously we await more firm news.

 

[Ptarmiganx2]

Yea ps5 will have a more detailed scene due to through put brining in more assets but xsx will have higher resolution frame

The throughput gap in favor of the PS5 is double. The XSX has an 18 percent GPU advantage. One will be noticeable to the naked eye.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It didn't age well

Back to the drawing board.

 

[jackets with pockets]

@Mod of War bold claim here.

Done.

 

[Uzupedro]

Holy shit a thread on the other forum about Tim's lines is in chaos. Its going to be a long summer folks

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Not that I know of.

Did you watch this video? It seems to be able to convert even captured video motion into moving voxels

Just wow! I didn't understand previously what voxel is, what an amazing tech! You can simulate muscle/flesh movements quite better, I think. A mixture of the too is welcome indeed! Now I understand those artifacts in the demo much better.

 

[MasterCornholio]

The throughput gap in favor of the PS5 is double. The XSX has an 18 percent GPU advantage. One will be noticeable to the naked eye.

Definitely. While the biggest difference is the I/O system it might be the difference that people notice the least. Multiplat comparisons should be quite interesting to see.

 

[Nikana]

Genuine question here.

Do posters here really not think of Sweeny as a business man and simply an engine creator?

 

[Handy Fake]

Done.

 

[Vae_Victis]

Brief impressions from Mike Bithell on DualSense

Jesus Christ, do these people ever get to the point? No, scratch that: do they ever get to any point?

I thought I saw some dispersive and inconclusive shit, but holy crap is this another level of avoiding the topic on purpose for 80+ minutes.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

Just wow! I didn't understann previously what voxel is, what an amazing tech! You can simulate muscle/flesh movement quite better, I think. A mixture of the too is welcome, indeed! Now I understand those artifacts in the demo much better.

This is a similar tech. We don't know if epic is also using voxels.

Atomontage was coming to unreal engine and unity. Maybe epic bought them and optimized for smaller micropolygons up close, and the deal is yet to be announced. Or maybe they develop similar but unrelated tech.

The atomontage voxel solution does appear to have a very clean image and large number of automatic lod levels like ue5, so who knows.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Jesus Christ, do these people ever get to the point? No, scratch that: do they ever get to any point?

I thought I saw some dispersive and inconclusive shit, but holy crap is this another level of avoiding the topic on purpose for 80+ minutes.

I am glad I am not the only one. I was like, what is the random babbling of the worst foreplay with no climax on the planet?

 

[FranXico]

Holy shit a thread on the other forum about Tim's lines is in chaos. Its going to be a long summer folks

Select quotes? Should prove amusing.

 

[jonnyp]

Jesus Christ, do these people ever get to the point? No, scratch that: do they ever get to any point?

I thought I saw some dispersive and inconclusive shit, but holy crap is this another level of avoiding the topic on purpose for 80+ minutes.

Yeah, complete waste of time that was. Not one single interesting thing to be gained from that.

 

[ethomaz]

Jesus Christ, do these people ever get to the point? No, scratch that: do they ever get to any point?

I thought I saw some dispersive and inconclusive shit, but holy crap is this another level of avoiding the topic on purpose for 80+ minutes.

There is a reason I don't watch video unless it really something important/impressive.

I hate how DF do with the video... a waste of time... so I prefer to read and understand the articles... sadly they don't do articles for all their videos anymore

 

[FranXico]

Genuine question here.

Do posters here really not think of Sweeny as a business man and simply an engine creator?

He is both. Do posters here really only think of Sweeny as a salesman trying to sell Sony snake oil?

 

[Nikana]

He is both. Do posters here really only think of Sweeny as a salesman trying to sell Sony snake oil?

Who said anything about snake oil?

 

[Fake]

Lol... the spins our world have...

 

[FranXico]

Who said anything about snake oil?

There's a lot of people calling Sweeny a liar for that demo all over the internet, don't mind me.

 

[Vae_Victis]

There is a reason I don't watch video unless it really something important/impressive.

I hate how DF do with the video... a waste of time... so I prefer to read and understand the articles... sadly they don't do articles for all their videos anymore

DF videos are to this one like The Lord of the Ring's trilogy is to watching paint dry.

This is like the world finals of small talk: you can't stop talking, talk about anything you want, but you lose the second you say anything of any substance or relevance for another human being on the planet.

 

[ethomaz]

DF videos are to this one like The Lord of the Ring's trilogy is to watching paint dry.

This is like the world finals of small talk: you can't stop speaking, talk about anywhere you want, but lose the second yoy say anything of any substance or relevance for another human being on the planet.

Thanks God I did not open the video if it is that level worst

Even today I keep asking myself why there is three Hobbit movies lol
And I fully watched the first one (the last TLotR had better pace of all them though).

 

[Darius87]

The throughput gap in favor of the PS5 is double. The XSX has an 18 percent GPU advantage. One will be noticeable to the naked eye.

it's 15% not 18%
look:
12.1 tf is 100%
10.28 tf is X%
we want to find X%
so 100 - (10.28 * 100 / 12.1) = 15%

 

[GlassAwful]

*Snip

Posted in wrong topic

 

[Nikana]

There's a lot of people calling Sweeny a liar for that demo all over the internet, don't mind me.

I think anyone calling him a liar is a bit extreme but just reading a ton of posts here it seems like some take him as this visionary of tech and don't see him as a face of company trying to sell an engine.

Sweeny has always talked a big game but I have seen this man talk since the original unreal. Hes extremely good at being vauge and making things sound like they are exponentially mind blowing and only possible with Unreal. Which is flat out false. But he's very good at making people believe Unreal is the only option. Which is his main job.

But Unreal has had some real growing pains especially during the UE3 era when more and more games started to use it. In my opinion it exposed a lot of Sweeny.

I always was skeptical of him and some called him a John Carmack which always made me roll my eyes. Maybe it's because I am Doom fanboy buy I never put those two in the same category in terms of skill and passion.

Long winded way of saying I am floored so many people here are latching onto his words like they aren't being manipulated by a sales pitch.

 

[Fake]

It didn't age well

 

[SSfox]

 

[FranXico]

it's 15% not 18%
look:
12.1 tf is 100%
10.28 tf is X%
we want to find X%
so 100 - (10.28 * 100 / 12.1) = 15%

It's a relative measure.
If you take 12.1 as 100%, 10.28 is 15% smaller.
If you take 10.28 as 100%, 12.1 is 18% larger.

Both statements are true. Most people tend to express themselves using the latter.

 

[Sinthor]

What? It's that obvious?

Yup. I followed the links when it first broke and though I don't know what was being said in Chinese, it was obvious they kept starting and stopping the PLAYBACK of the UE5 demo on a laptop they were watching and discussing on. So getting that they were actually RUNNING THE DEMO on that laptop was just a hilarious fail. It was just the video playback of the UE5 demo. That's it.

 

[Sinthor]

The big issue that I'm seeing is Dealers comments. He's basically making the claim that the XSX should run games at double the framerate than the PS5.

It's very dangerous for him to set such high expectations since he runs a YouTube tech channel similar to NX gamer.

If the results are nowhere near that there will be alot of meltdowns. And I mean really really bad ones.

In my opinion he should put his bias aside and look at the situation objectively instead of letting his preference cloud his judgement.

Yes, that statement...saying that the XBsX will do 40-50fps MORE than the PS5 is just....absurdly stupid. I kept waiting for that to be edited, walked back or deleted, but.... Oh well. He'll have to live with how inaccurate his statement is VERY shortly as all the demos and info starts dropping here in June. Will be funny to watch, I guess!

 

[Uzupedro]

Select quotes? Should prove amusing.

I Think this 2 images should be enough, its clearly a mess over there, dont know if any thread over here is going to be like that soon, but as soon that whole story explodes in the internet, welp, someone help Sweeney, Timdogg gang is going to be merciless.

 

[Darius87]

It's a relative measure.
If you take 12.1 as 100%, 10.28 is 15% smaller.
If you take 10.28 as 100%, 12.1 is 18% larger.

Both statements are true. Most people tend to express themselves using the latter.

correct way is to take largest number as 100%. because it can't be more then 100% otherwise you get more then 100%.

 

[Neo Blaster]

So, like, are we getting the PS5 console reveal this week?

Announcement of the reveal at most, judging by the rumours.

 

[Agnostic2020]

I Think this 2 images should be enough, its clearly a mess over there, dont know if any thread over here is going to be like that soon, but as soon that whole story explodes in the internet, welp, someone help Sweeney, Timdogg gang is going to be merciless.

Haha someone lost it."u guys are literal garbage".

I wonder if he was a ps fan trying to say ssd is the only important thing or xbox fan trying to say half speed ssd is just as good and ssd more than an imaginary point is not needed .

 

[Gamernyc78]

I've been reading through the tweets and some people are accusing Tim Sweeney of lying.

Any truth to this?

Your really asking this? lol. Those Schills will say anything. Isn't the first Gen or last they try to downplay anything Sony or anyone showing it in a good light.

 

[lepermessiah]

Gee it didn't take long for the "I aM AuThoRitY" armchair computer scientists to come out of the wood work jfc If Sweeney says Sony's I/O has an edge here well it's a tad likely he's on the money. Sex will have its own advantages. PC as well. stfu, I am NOT authority.

 

[FranXico]

Long winded way of saying I am floored so many people here are latching onto his words like they aren't being manipulated by a sales pitch.

Regardless of his exaggerations, the demo showed results speaking for themselves. I personally find the amount of people who now take anything the likes of Greenberg and Penello say seriously far more surprising, given their well-know track record.

 

[Neo Blaster]

i gotta say i love how tim sweeney himself is owning these fools. its so fucking hilarious to see the CEO of Epic Games engage with these idiots.

i wish cerny did this.

Master Cerny wouldn't descend to the level of peasants.

 

[Uzupedro]

I wonder if he was a ps fan trying to say ssd is the only important thing or xbox fan trying to say half speed ssd is just as good and ssd more than an imaginary point is not needed .

The second one as far as I remember. Both sides are clearly waaaaaay more stressed than they should because of this topic. Several assumptions with little basis and misinformation, I don't know if this is the fault of EPIC / Sweeney, maybe they could have been even clearer than they already were, or if we are all complete idiots, or both. This period of '' technical analysis'' is already giving me a hard time, I just hope it ends soon.

 

[Sinthor]

They have a feature that works kind of the same way on Xbox already called fast start, but It doesn’t allow you to pick what part first to install. I wouldn’t be surprised if they improve on that feature like what Sony is planning. Sony didn’t talk about it as an exclusive feature and it already happens on PC so maybe Xbox has it

This is something that will require support from developers to make a reality, right? I mean, devs will have to uncouple their code or effectively make their games in chunks so that you can grab one part or another. So unless and until MS supports that kind of ability with their infrastructure, devs won't be able to do it with MS. I don't expect that would be a huge deal though, so if MS decides to support that, I'm sure they can.

 

[ToadMan]

Yes, you’re right this is correct. My point is “sustaining clocks” is kind of meaningless in the context of actual work done.

Calculation costs watts, watts produce heat. By targeting to run at maximum watts, you’re targeting to run at maximum calculation rate, regardless of clock speed.

This is how modern GPU overclocking is done by people that want to eliminate boost and have a repeatable stable level of performance.
You want to be power draw limited (maximum calculation per unit of time) while having a good enough cooling solution to never thermally throttle.

Clock speed doesn’t equal calculation done per unit of time either. Just as a GPU can idle at its peak clock and generate no heat/do no actual work.

Extreme examples help. You could have a fixed 2Ghz clock doing a very computationally cheap job that draws a small amount of power and makes a small amount of heat.
You could then have a variable 2Ghz peak clock that drops to 1.5Ghz to keep at maximum power draw while doing a computationally very expensive job, and the second one would be crunching more FLOPS (per unit of time, which is what FLOPS is) than the first example. Despite the clocks not only dropping but being lower.

Useful work done is watts of power draw, which then becomes heat. It’s not clock-speed which says nothing about calculation being done.

Some people clearly think clock speed is a measure of work done, or that TF can be “fixed”. My only point is that it’s demonstrably wrong, as anyone used to modern CPU/GPU overclocking will know.

It’s all about power draw. That’s the measure of numbers crunched.

I can maybe make this easier for everyone.

P=CV^2 A f

P is power
C capacitance
V Voltage
A Activity - the amount of work the core is doing. Could be thought of as percentage of transistors flipping each clock tick for example.
f clock

Ignore C and V for now.

Traditional design says keep f constant and let P rise with A. This generates heat and the heat has to be dissipated, so design a cooling solution for predicted but unknown max P. That’s past consoles and the Xsex. If that cooling prediction is wrong, the system can shutdown due to excessive heat, reduce its life or even damage the system (RRODs back in 360 days spring to mind).

For PS5, the P power is capped and instead f can droop if A is too high for the max P. Because P is capped, the cooling solution can be designed to be effective at max P so there is no need to make an estimate of required cooling - it is known at design time.


Oh one more thing, because the conditions which lead to a droop in f are predictable, developers can and should optimise their code to avoid A exceeding the max P thereby avoiding the need to droop f.

Smartshift will mitigate the droop of f by looking at the A on both the cpu and gpu - if A is exceeding the max P on one processing device, smartswitch can allocate unused P from the other to avoid the need to droop f.

 

[Nikana]

Regardless of his exaggerations, the demo showed results speaking for themselves. I personally find the amount of people who now take anything the likes of Greenberg and Penello say seriously far more surprising, given their well-know track record.

Honestly haven't seen anyone talking about either except Greensburg saying UE5 will be on XSX.

 

[FranXico]

Honestly haven't seen anyone talking about either except Greensburg saying UE5 will be on XSX.

Oh, that far precedes the UE5 demo debacle.

 

[Nikana]

Oh, that far precedes the UE5 demo debacle.

Gotcha.

 

[FranXico]

Smartshift will mitigate the droop of f by looking at the A on both the cpu and gpu - if A is exceeding the max P on one processing device, smartswitch can allocate unused P from the other to avoid the need to droop f

This is the one thing most people didn't really pay attention to. You can expect the CPU to remain underutilized in most cases (certainly in cross-gen/BC mode), thus pretty much preserving GPU frequency. It is not expected to be an issue right now.
What might happen later down the road with titles that really push the CPU is another story. But that should be years down the line.

 

[ToadMan]

"lol it’s math, minimum of 40to50 frames per second on GPU Alone. In addition to better RT"

That's what I'm making a reference to. It's a pretty big claim.

I’m firmly of the opinion that PS5 and Xsex will run games at the same res and FPS.

I base that feeling on the experience of the PS4/xb1. In that case the PS4 had a 40% power advantage over xb1 in terms of tflops (50% more gpu CUs running about 7% slower). That advantage was enough to get identical FPS at 1 step higher resolution.

Here we are with tflops difference of 18% (Xsex having about 40% more gpu CUs but running 20% slower than PS5) and two systems which share very similar cpu and gpu.

18% isn’t enough to make a major difference coupled with multiplat developers targeting PS5 and porting to Xsex. It won’t be worth their time to try and get extra res or performance on Xsex because 18% will gain them very little for their efforts to exploit it.

I actually think that in terms of console warring over res and FPS, this generation is going to be dull. There just won’t be any difference to gloat over for either side.

Maybe PS5 gets higher res textures because it can shift them across its SSD more quickly. But really most people will be hard pressed to notice (4K texture vs 8k say) even if devs take the option to do it. Maybe comparing side by side screenshots would show it up.

 

[xacto]

Yeah first it was Mark Cerny who was lying about PS5 having RT, then PS5 being on RDNA2 then the Crytek guy was also lying and now it is Tim Sweeney who is lying. How dare anybody talk anything positive about PS5, Xbox Series X has 12, I repeat 12 TFLOPS!

Why is it so hard for the Xbox fanatics to even hear someone say anything positive about PS5? You folks have the MOST POWERFUL console with all the advantages over PS5 (MS isn't even competing with Sony and handily beating them). They have more higher clocked cpu, more TFLOPS gpu, faster RAM, faster ssd(they are deluding themselves with claims of 3 times 4.8gbps but we'll bite, thanks to XVA, BCPACK, AND SFS), more studios with MS' deep pockets no studio is free from the threat of acquisition, more games than they can announce and market properly.

Take all of these and have fun don't go around spoiling fun for others.

And if you truly love xbox then criticize the gross mistakes that MS has done with the previous inside xbox event. They take the blame and continue to so same things. Phil Spencer tweets that he is excited for starting the next gen campaigning with honesty and transparency. They outright lied setting wrong expectations and failing to deliver on their own words. Jez Corden did a good article criticizing that, even praising SoP and NinDirect and suggesting that direction for inside xbox.

"When you talk about Nintendo and Sony, we have a ton of respect for them, but we see Amazon and Google as the main competitors going forward," Spencer said. "That's not to disrespect Nintendo and Sony, but the traditional gaming companies are somewhat out of position. I guess they could try to re-create Azure, but we've invested tens of billions of dollars in cloud over the years." - Phil Spencer.

I think Xbox fans are beating a dead horse comparing Xbox to Playstation since Spencer himself said that they moved on. Their comparisons should lie somewhere else, but I guess no one sent them the memo.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Damn tim is owning few shook fanboys. Why r few xbox fanboys shook to the core by this demo ? I don't get it. Each system has its own strength. And this engine scales on everything .

I assume They were hoping ssd is just for load tiems but they r understanding 8k assets will be allowed on ps5 thanks to the io through put

They cannot see PS5 in a position of strength, it's unbearable.

 

[Gamernyc78]

They have a feature that works kind of the same way on Xbox already called fast start, but It doesn’t allow you to pick what part first to install. I wouldn’t be surprised if they improve on that feature like what Sony is planning. Sony didn’t talk about it as an exclusive feature and it already happens on PC so maybe Xbox has it

Specific ps4 games already had something similar as well years ago where you could choose to download the campaign first or mp.

 

[yewles1]

I’d love to know why they decided to go that route and not make a custom SSD that uses their custom flash controller.

The vita should potentially answer that question...