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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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azertydu91

Hard to Kill
Phill spencer pretends to be the cool guy officially.

discreetly pays for this type of marketing, employing Greeberg

Then I have to listen to the xbox fans playing the victims.
Yeah I remember him saying they wouldn't timed exclusive anymore because it was not consumer friendly .....
That turned out great.

Don Mattrick even if he was an asshole I don't remember him doing those kind of things .But damn what a douche.
 

Culture_Matrix_Code_corridor.jpg
 
I dunno who ColtEastwood is but I saw that Greenberg retweeted this video





I am about halfway through the video and I haven't heard him say anything about PS5 vs XsX. Mostly just talking about Scorn and The Medium devs have said about developing for XsX.

Might be a little click-baity with the "IMPOSSIBLE TECH" headline

tenor.gif


OMG Greenberg and Colt.

LOL

They are perfect for each other. Heck they can even get married and adopt Tim Dog.

:)
 
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BGs

Industry Professional
The way to overcome the limit is to write it in a document (like Google Docs) or put it online (Pastebin or similar site) and then give Google Translate a link.

We appreciate your input!

Edit: I hope the back of DS you mention is not paddles. I bought the recently released attachment to DS4 and I can't get used to it. It makes me hold the controller in an uncomfortable way and my muscle memory has a huge problem with utilization. I simply forget about it which doubles the annoyance. Habits are our second nature.
I take note, thanks. Although sometimes it is difficult since 90% of the time I write from the smartphone. Also I think it is evident that I have a problem when synthesizing text.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. What I meant that probably a camera reading your body movement as a whole, and another camera inside the PSVR2 to track your pupils for efficient sharpening for one spot out of the image without taxing the system with showing the whole image at full quality.
Well, I think (wait, I check it, I don't want to screw it up) ... I honestly don't know what I can say about it. I can say that there are patents in this regard with the details you mention.

So basically...

XSX: Max Speed
PS5: Acceleration
Or...
XSX: Dodge Challenger Hellcat
PS5: Nissan GT-R NISMO Mazda 6 Skyactive-X 2023
I don't know if it would be the most appropriate allegory. Perhaps a better representation would be that PS5 is to the video game industry than the Skyactiv-X engine is to the automotive industry.


I don't have more time for now, the rest of Quotes I will have to answer at another time tomorrow or as soon as I can.

Cheers
 
Waaaaaaaaait a second.
Could this actually be AMDs weapon against RT?
AMD's Geometry Engine mentioned by Mark Cerny, now that i've seen this Geometry Imagery , the UE5 Demo and the missing RT features in it could this actually be a thing?
Is this what this is all about? -> AMD Pushing hardware accelerated geometry image usage vs hardware accelerated raytracing

Probably not. I must be overexaggerating...
 
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pasterpl

Member
who do you respect?

a) who is silent
b) who talks shit

one is very America, loud and open, bold statements, interacting with fans etc. Other is very Japanese, quiet and more level, not that interactive, I do prefer the first approach
 

oldergamer

Member
Waaaaaaaaait a second.
Could this actually be AMDs weapon against RT?
AMD's Geometry Engine mentioned by Mark Cerny, now that i've seen this Geometry Imagery , the UE5 Demo and the missing RT features in it could this actually be a thing?
Is this what this is all about? -> AMD Pushing hardware accelerated geometry image usage vs hardware accelerated raytracing

Probably not. I must be overexaggerating...
totally exaggerating
 
one is very America, loud and open, bold statements, interacting with fans etc. Other is very Japanese, quiet and more level, not that interactive, I do prefer the first approach
Now i am confused.
The first in your text or the quote?

I prefer the Silent / Japanese / "Humble" style.

Me born in Poland raised in Germany just for context.
 
Everyone assumed faster SSD meant PS5 would load in 1 second while XSX in 2-3 seconds, then it was all XSX.
Cerny said it was more than that but nobody really believed it until Sweeney showed it and said it was instrumental to the demo as shown.

Nanite and Lumen will work wonders for XSX too, but whether it can crunch the same movie quality assets is up for debate.

Nanite in particular relies heavily on Async Compute Engine of which it’s likely both PS5 and XSX has four units. PS5s running around ~20 faster.

I have no idea how many ACEs there are in the new consoles, but the PS4 had 8 ACEs while the Xbox One had 2 ACEs. So it'll be interesting to see how Sony implements BC in PS5, if there's only 4 ACEs.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Block compression, whether named S3_TC (from Savage 3D technology originally) and debranded as generic DXTn, or using the newly DX10 BC/BCPACK moniker is hardly the topic. The important point is still about it being a lossy compressor, to offset storage bandwidth deficiency against lossless textures.

It seems you don't quite appreciate the difference in lossy formats, say comparing BC to jpeg for instance, if you feel my speculation about using BCpack textures could result in flashing pixels if sampling on an error.

Unlike jpeg, S3_TC/DXT compression is better at retaining hard edge details - because you can guide the block compressor to prioritize what it wants to retain.. The downside being that discontinuity errors are then more likely for what it was prepared to lose, because the compressor hasn't treated the image as a complete signal like jpeg does. Jpegs will lose precise detail at the expensive of retaining the overall shape of the signal as best it can through the compression ratios - which wouldn't cause harsh discontinuity errors.

As for the discussion about pop-in. you are going to have to work much harder to make that point.

Problem 1. Epic said the data for each frame gets crunched new every frame - obviously you can't fit the billions of polygons and 8K texture source data in memory, and only what gets rendered goes in the 16GB - so classic pop-in as you are describing doesn't exist in the scene, unless you are claiming Epic engineers are wrong.

Problem 2. pop-in is visualized by seeing higher quality LoD/mipmap arrival over multiple frames. The video source is lossy compressed through h.264/h.265 so no way of telling if it was video encoding or engine errors, and the handful of native stills won't be for 3 consecutive frames at this point.

Problem 3. The scene is of an Ancient building in the desert, and IMHO that picture actually just looks correct. The parts of the building have been artistically aged differently to make it look organic - like the wind and sand have damaged it differently - as it should be, rather than some perfect shinny render of the same geometry multiple times without any flaws.

Another amazing post. I really doubt, and go with Tim and Epic Games team, that there is any other gaming set would do such intensive work per frame at that level of detail "Losslessly". As BCPack is already a "Lossy" compression it's incomparable to Sony's Kraken. You can always compress the assets prior to that if that's your goal, but BCPack takes that option away from you as it forces you to use lossy compression/decompression to help with the speed gap and make an inflated 4.8GB/s figure, if theoretically there are no other bottlenecks in XSX, which so far are proven to be there. Not to mention that forced quality compression might double down on an already compressed file, making it worse than intended.

41yf1t.jpg
 
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Gamernyc78

Banned
Another amazing post. I really doubt, and go with Tim and Epic Games team, that there is any other gaming set would do such intensive work per frame at that level of detail "Losslessly". As BCPack is already a "Lossy" compression it's incomparable to Sony's Kraken. You can always compress the assets prior to that if that's your goal, but BCPack takes that option away from you as it forces you to use lossy compression/decompression to help with the speed gap and make an inflated 4.8GB/s figure, if theoretically there are no other bottlenecks in XSX, which so far it's proven to be there. Not to mention that forced quality force might double down on an already compressed file, making it worst than intended.

41yf1t.jpg

They both hit though but I get your point 😂😂😂😂
 
I have no idea how many ACEs there are in the new consoles, but the PS4 had 8 ACEs while the Xbox One had 2 ACEs. So it'll be interesting to see how Sony implements BC in PS5, if there's only 4 ACEs.

With Unreal Engine 5 relying on them and Sony and Epic working together on future IO and rendering techniques perhaps some of the “lost“ CU space is taken up by them as well as the IO complex.
8 of them at 2.2Ghz would certainly go some way to explain importing movie quality assets and crunching all that data.
 

J_Gamer.exe

Member
It’s unclear what the dev was talking about, as it seems he’s not just talking about I/O but system performance. His analogy doesn’t make sense if it’s just I/O he’s talking about....

And people equate power with performance, when they shouldn’t.

I took that 2.5 - 5 times speed to relate to the the ssd or io. What else could it be? It's a bit unclear but they said delivery man...

Number of boxes = GPU (TF)

Coordinator = cpu and says xbox coordinator is doing more as if to say because it doesnt have specific ssd hardware like the ps5 level it has more to do and so less efficient?

Delivery man = ssd and io speed?

Ridles eh lol. What's others take on it?

Either way it sounds like one hell of a delivery company.

It is easy. It is useless to have 12 boxes if they do not fit through the door all together.

You have 12 boxes to fill. So you can't pass all the boxes at once. You must decide which boxes will pass and which will not. That is handled by a coordinator. And the coordinator tells the delivery man which boxes to take.

Mrs. XSX wants to make the move as soon as possible, but it turns out that only 8 boxes can fit on the door at a time. The coordinator is fast, and also uses a box compressor so that 10 boxes can go through instead of 8, but there are several drawbacks. The compressor can only compress the red boxes, and the coordinator also has to coordinate many other things, street traffic, people passing through the door, the space in the room where the boxes are stored, the noise of neighbors who distract the delivery man, search and select what the boxes are filled with, etc. Also, the delivery man is not so fast and is very distracted filling and transporting boxes. So it passes the 10 boxes (not 12) at a certain speed "1x". The lady demands that the boxes arrive, but they do not arrive as quickly as the lady would like, since although she has many boxes, the system is not capable of managing all of them properly.

On the other hand we have Mrs. PS5. You only have 10 boxes to fill. But its door is twice as big, enough for all its boxes to enter at once and there is room for people to also enter and exit through the door. Furthermore, the coordinator has the ability to automatically discard unnecessary boxes, so he doesn't waste time checking boxes that are not going to be used. In addition, anyone in the environment can do the job of the coordinator or the delivery man (even at the same time). The compressor is not that new, but it can compress all boxes, whether they are red or blue. All. And the delivery man is more than twice as fast and manages to pass the boxes at the speed of "2.5x" in the worst case, and "5x" on many occasions. In addition, if someone is left free or without work, they can help to distribute boxes with the delivery man or coordinate work with the coordinator. All this makes this removal company the most efficient ever seen and that the number of boxes available is irrelevant. For that moving system, 12 boxes are not needed, with 10 you can do the same job (and more or better in some cases). Having more boxes would only make the price of the move more expensive without needing any of it.

Of course, having more boxes available always helps to advertise yourself as a top removal company compared to the competition, even if your removal company is normal and ordinary. But it is only that, a smokescreen.

That does not mean that XSX is bad, far from it, it is an extraordinary machine. But PS5 has an efficiency NEVER seen before.

It is true that on PC there are more powerful cards or more powerful systems, but you know that these cards are never used properly, they draw raw power, but they are never used. It is the scourge of PC, an ecosystem that is too varied and unusable. In addition to exorbitant prices.

And I've always been a PCLover, but things as they are, what I've seen on PS5 I only remember something similar when 3DFX and its Glide came out. Its astonishing speed leaves you speechless
 
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Could Lockhart be announced at the MS event in June?


We know that Microsoft is holding a big event in July to show off first-party titles like Halo Infinite. However, the publisher said they planned to hold monthly Xbox 20/20 events, which leaves June open as a major window for some type of announcement. Venture Beat claims Microsoft will have some event around June 10 that promises to give us a better look at the Xbox Series X.
 
T

Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member
So if Bloodborne is coming to PC it might be likely that they are making a sequel?

We can look at HZD which was exclusive to PS4 but now it's being made available on PC because Sony want PC users to invest in the game so in the future they will be more willing and likely to buy the sequel which will be exclusive to the PS5 and they'll also have to buy the PS5 for that as well lol
 

geordiemp

Member
So if Bloodborne is coming to PC it might be likely that they are making a sequel?

We can look at HZD which was exclusive to PS4 but now it's being made available on PC because Sony want PC users to invest in the game so in the future they will be more willing and likely to buy the sequel which will be exclusive to the PS5 and they'll also have to buy the PS5 for that as well lol

Logical

They better not be pigeons!!!

tenor.gif



But how many pigeons ?
 
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xacto

Member
I'm going to throw up a little.

This is something that if you must say I really dislike Xbox stop using your fanboys as media weapons is extremely distasteful.

I never saw people like Reggie making retweet a Nintendo fanboys the same for playstation in many years.

But in exchange people of Xbox like the same Phil love to share tabloid journalism and encourage than kind of behaviour.


I am sorry (well, actually I am not, you know...) but this is beyond distasteful on Microsoft's part. Using such individuals for marketing purposes is just weak and pathetic. And we're all wondering why these individuals are foaming at the mouth when Sony is praised for innovation, while officially Microsoft is congratulating Sony for the same achievements?!

Any sign left of credibility and goodwill from me to this corporation who uses such lame mouthpieces is gone, like out-of-this-galaxy gone. And they're wondering why they fail, generation after generation of consoles? Is this the message they're sending? Aaron Greenberg stroking the ego of Timdog & Co? Have you no pride, no professional attitude, Greenberg?

Well, Microsoft, you couldn't stoop any lower than that, groveling at the feet of your rabid fanboys. You deserve what comes to you.
 

mitchman

Gold Member
It's a pretty misunderstood quote, Xbox wire and DF are the sources for two basically identical quotes, here's DF

"The form factor is cute, the 2.4GB/s of guaranteed throughput is impressive, but it's the software APIs and custom hardware built into the SoC that deliver what Microsoft believes to be a revolution - a new way of using storage to augment memory (an area where no platform holder will be able to deliver a more traditional generational leap). The idea, in basic terms at least, is pretty straightforward - the game package that sits on storage essentially becomes extended memory, allowing 100GB of game assets stored on the SSD to be instantly accessible by the developer. It's a system that Microsoft calls the Velocity Architecture and the SSD itself is just one part of the system."

In context the 100 GB is referring to an individual game's assists in this hypothetical scenario, not any arbitrary limit. The quote simply states that the game in storage acts as extended memory. All the talk of "only 100 gb" is a poor inference based off this
So MS basically re-branded mmap and is calling it some kind of revolution. Ok.

 

HAL-01

Member
Bloodborne Is Coming To PC According To Industry Insider

“BLOODBORNE is currently in development for PC. I wanted to go ahead and get this to you guys who love to game on PC. This could take 10 months up to a year to get announced but other Sony games to PC might get announced first and this later! If you thought that Horizon was the only one coming to PC then prepare to get blown away. But yeah, do NOT take this as 100% confirmation and wait for official news! And of course, take every leak with a grain of salt.”


Just let me run the game on the PS5 at a locked 60fps with no frame pacing and call it a day.
God I sure hope if they’re taking the time with a pc port at least give us a PS5 patch as well
 

FranXico

Member
I will call that, BS/FAKE.

Here is where this "friend" of blue negroho really stands 👇 :messenger_winking:

What info? Is his source the Xbox Era Discord or the Xbox Power King Meme thread? :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Love that follow-up tweet about how "Sony are doing more marketing" and "pushing a narrative", with his discord buddies. You can't make this shit up. Well, these guys can, apparently.
 
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ChrisB

Member
Something just hit me after seeing a post on here, maybe this has been said before and the clarity provided for it.

How is the XSX a fixed 12.2 TF when the CPU frequency maximum is variable depending on layout use? 8 core only is 3.8Ghz, when using 8c/16t it is then 3.6Ghz.
While minuscule that says to me it either goes over 12.2TF or below it, which processor layout did MS quote 12.2 for?
 

HAL-01

Member
Something just hit me after seeing a post on here, maybe this has been said before and the clarity provided for it.

How is the XSX a fixed 12.2 TF when the CPU frequency maximum is variable depending on layout use? 8 core only is 3.8Ghz, when using 8c/16t it is then 3.6Ghz.
While minuscule that says to me it either goes over 12.2TF or below it, which processor layout did MS quote 12.2 for?
12TF is the number for GPU, which does run at a single fixed frequency
 

LED Guy?

Banned
Ah I still see some feel very insecure over a tech demo and an SSD that's in a console which will ship in Holiday 2020, in the end, it's the games that matter, Xbox fans should yell at Microsoft for the lack of games and no AAA experiences, we have Sony launching TLOU 2 in June and Ghost of Tsushima in July back-to-back, 2 huge ass AAA games, one is a sequel to one of the best games ever made, and the other is a completely new IP made by Sucker Punch!

Xbox Era Discord they only care about power and how many pubic hairs does Phil Spencer have. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
 

My question is simple. Nvmes have been around for years. Developers put textures and features that sometime are not even useable in nonhighend rigs.

Yet despite this, I know of no, not a single developer who has ever optimized for nvmes. Even pc exclusives don't seem to do so. Is it that hard to do that? Practically all games seem to load about as fast as sata ssd, and no faster.

There are videos comparing m.2 optane vs sata ssd in star citizen, same speed. A high budget pc exclusive that even recommends titan cards.

Why is this? Is it extreme difficulty, or is it that it simply cannot be done in software.
 

FranXico

Member
Something just hit me after seeing a post on here, maybe this has been said before and the clarity provided for it.

How is the XSX a fixed 12.2 TF when the CPU frequency maximum is variable depending on layout use? 8 core only is 3.8Ghz, when using 8c/16t it is then 3.6Ghz.
While minuscule that says to me it either goes over 12.2TF or below it, which processor layout did MS quote 12.2 for?
Xbox Series X is not using a fixed power budget nor shifting power around between GPU and CPU, unlike PS5.
The Xbox SX GPU is clocked at a fixed 1.825GHz. The maximum possible computational power is therefore always 12.2TF.
 
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