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“It's time to give fans something that can only be enjoyed on PlayStation 5”

Some games that MS have in development I could see being cross gen, but if the next Halo was XSX exclusive, wouldn't the XSX have a better chance of dominating the next generation than implying that Xbox players don't need to upgrade really the next 2 years as you can still play all the future games on your current system.

I expect the next Horizon Zero Dawn game to be the big Day One PS5 game. It's not that the game may blow current gen gaming out of water, but if I can only play it on PS5, I have to buy a PS5 to play it. I'm arguing that why would I buy a PS5 if the showcase next week says all first party PS5 games announced will also be playable on PS4. I'd keep the PS4 for a while longer as there is little incentive to upgrade if I can play HZD2 on my PS4. It is not the games per se but it's the fear of missing out.

Microsoft have the strongest machine on paper, why not take advantage? Make it must have with special features and games.

The main worry I have is by the time MS allow its developers concentrate solely on XSX, PS5 may have the next gen wrapped up.
That's a scenario I can see having a real negative impact for the Series X and wouldn't rule it out. Personally me I just don't see it having the impact on the scale of the Xbox One Kinect, a $100 higher price tag, always online, and the bad publicity it created throughout the gaming landscape. That's my only issue because your points are very well placed on the topic.
 

Psykodad

Banned
Having exclusives is completely normal and expected in every single console generation.
A new console generation should clearly strive to achieve games not previously possible.

MS's approach is frankly bizarre here, and will bite them in the ass.
It isn't bizarre, they royally screwed up this gen and have no other option than to do what they do.

In fact, I think it's better for them to delay the XSX launch by a year than to release in a couple of months with no sellingpoint whatsoever, except from "promises".
Phil fucked up almost as much as Mattrick.
 
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You speak as if the only games at launch are first party, however the vast majority of games are third-party.

Third-party developers can do whatever they like.

Next gen power and features will be on full display on BOTH consoles at launch, even if your 'old tech holds Xbox first-party back' scenario proved true.

Third-party developers aren't going to have true next-gen games ready until next year.

So realistically, we're only going to see true next gen games from Sony's first party.
 

Tulipanzo

Member
Graphically speaking, the PS5 won't have the luxury of being able to outclass the Series X, so it will be using other methods which in my opinion will be the SSD.

Again a lot of your points are well received but I'm just not seeing how it puts one company over the other on this topic alone. There are other factors that will give Sony the edge over Microsoft in some aspects, MS having multiple platform compatibility isn't one in my opinion.

Sony had the graphics, price, and customer trust going in to this gen. It worked tremendously. Next gen is a mystery for now as we've yet to see both companies show their entire hand.
Graphically speaking, the Series X has only a very theoretical 15% power advantage; that's already half as small than X1/PS4 or X1X/PS4Pro, and without the RAM advantage PS4 and X1X enjoyed.

If this already tiny difference were to play out as is, this is how the two consoles would differ: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1nZAF1kWhvAu3bZKbRZIKYIP0llf7nLIA
If you are selling "the world's most powerful console", that's fucking nothing.
You NEED impressive games to sell your image, because on paper performance is't going to do it.

This is pretty basic: if you want people to believe your system can do amazing things, you need to show amazing things.
 
I just look at Sony’s statement and think ok so your engineers still can’t get software backwards compatibility working after all these years.

What does making games that specifically target the systems hardware have to do with BC?

If its damage controlling its damage control for the ones calling them anti consumer for not making all their games cross gen.
 
I’m against last gen releases when a new gen arrives. Games take years to develop, so you will see many releasing on last gen which are far enough into development unable to change direction. But once PS5 is out, and you start a new project targeting old consoles, you’re no gaming pioneer, your a bean counter rolling out product.

New gen needs mass adoption to create the user base supporting sales and drive tech and the medium forward. There is no room in a tech driven industry for some social justice mentality beholden to looking after little Timmy by giving him new games on his antique box, it’s about looking forward, next gen replacing the last gen. Necessity is the mother of all invention.
Multi platform compatibility has been going on since the PS3 and X360 days yet for some reason you guys are making it to be some negative for the benefit of declaring Microsoft doomed. It's not that serious.

PS4 did it with the TLOU, yet no backlash so I see no reason to make this more trivial than it needs.
 

Redlight

Member
Third-party developers aren't going to have true next-gen games ready until next year.

So realistically, we're only going to see true next gen games from Sony's first party.
At the PS4 launch there was Shadowfall and Battlefield. I wouldn't say that Shadowfall was a big leap ahead of Battlefield in terms of technical prowess, would you? In previous cases third-party games have been in the same ballpark as first-party early on. First-party devs also need time to get their heads around new consoles. True next-gen games will probably start with the second wave of releases.
 

Dick Jones

Gold Member
That would really destroy them since Sony would be launching their system much earlier.
I agree it would kill the console The XSX feels like it's the Xbox One to Xbox One X leap. What is the difference between upgrading from an Xbone to Xbox One X and upgrading from Xbone to XSX? That's the difficulty MS have when marketing it.
 

FranXico

Member
It's not matter of 'targeting' current-gen and I'm not sure that mass adoption should be the consumers concern. Supporting a policy that's bad for current customers only because it's great for the bottom line of an international corporation is, well, odd.

It's quite possible that some early next gen games would be easily scaleable. Not allowing that would be anti-consumer. So, if Sony deliberately bars PS5 games from PS4, even if they could downscale readily, you would support that?

It seems we've crossed the border of 'customer' and have driven deep into 'disciple' territory.
Sony is not blocking anyone from making PS4 versions along PS5 versions of their games. What they (first party studios) are already making is games designed for PS5.
They are still supporting PS4 with its own games (GoT is only out one month from now), which will also be playable in newer hardware.
 
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Graphically speaking, the Series X has only a very theoretical 15% power advantage; that's already half as small than X1/PS4 or X1X/PS4Pro, and without the RAM advantage PS4 and X1X enjoyed.

If this already tiny difference were to play out as is, this is how the two consoles would differ: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1nZAF1kWhvAu3bZKbRZIKYIP0llf7nLIA
If you are selling "the world's most powerful console", that's fucking nothing.
You NEED impressive games to sell your image, because on paper performance is't going to do it.

Impressive games with graphical fidelity alone or with additional great features? Which I assume the PS5 will no doubt have that could put them in the better position to dominate again, but it's a wait and see situation that we should all take without declaring anything as fact.

This is pretty basic: if you want people to believe your system can do amazing things, you need to show amazing things.
I'm not touting which system is more powerful sir. What I am saying is that the PS4 had the graphical advantages to showcase it the most powerful. It will not be the case next generation.
 
I agree it would kill the console The XSX feels like it's the Xbox One to Xbox One X leap. What is the difference between upgrading from an Xbone to Xbox One X and upgrading from Xbone to XSX? That's the difficulty MS have when marketing it.

Im pretty sure if Microsoft thought about delaying the system they took into account the competition theirs earlier. With how popular PlayStation is it might great a huge gap by the time the XSX launches. This could be very bad for Microsoft since by that time Sony will have a stable supply and maybe the ability to reduce the price. Not to mention the mind share would he through the roofs by that point. And alot of those people that jumped into next gen with the PS5 are not going to buy another system. Just a really bad situation for Microsoft if they choose to delay the system.
 

Shmunter

Member
Multi platform compatibility has been going on since the PS3 and X360 days yet for some reason you guys are making it to be some negative for the benefit of declaring Microsoft doomed. It's not that serious.

PS4 did it with the TLOU, yet no backlash so I see no reason to make this more trivial than it needs.
TLOU is a PS3 game. Sony didn’t build any ps3 games after PS4 was released.

Fundamentally with Sony it’s business as usual.
 
At the PS4 launch there was Shadowfall and Battlefield. I wouldn't say that Shadowfall was a big leap ahead of Battlefield in terms of technical prowess, would you? In previous cases third-party games have been in the same ballpark as first-party early on. First-party devs also need time to get their heads around new consoles. True next-gen games will probably start with the second wave of releases.

In terms of graphics? Yes it was

And no I'm not expecting them having to get their heads around the hardware given its meant to be even easier to develop for than PS4
 

Redlight

Member
Sony is not blocking anyone from making PS4 versions along PS5 versions of their games. What they (first party studios) are already making is games designed for PS5.
They are still supporting PS4 with its own games (GoT is only out one month from now), which will also be playable in newer hardware.
I didn't suggest any of the things you've bolded.
 

Tulipanzo

Member
You speak as if the only games at launch are first party, however the vast majority of games are third-party.

Third-party developers can do whatever they like.

Next gen power and features will be on full display on BOTH consoles at launch, even if your 'old tech holds Xbox first-party back' scenario proved true.
I'm going to have an incandescent hot take here, but Killzone Shadowfall was a better next-gen showcase then AC IV, but 1080p.
Or BotW than Skylanders. Or Ryse then CoD Ghosts.

Obviously you can't rely on third parties, they have their own timetables and priorities. This makes the need for first party exclusives even more apparent, as they'll have to carry a lot of the weight for the first years.
 
It's quite possible that some early next gen games would be easily scaleable. Not allowing that would be anti-consumer. So, if Sony deliberately bars PS5 games from PS4, even if they could downscale readily, you would support that?

That's not happening though.

71DUOBE-S0L._SX466_.jpg
 
TLOU is a PS3 game. Sony didn’t build any ps3 games after PS4 was released.

Fundamentally with Sony it’s business as usual.
It was one game spread across multiple systems from Sony. Same thing yet double standards. Its amazing how both companies use the same practices with one another but they get different or negative reactions based on who you ask? Crazy.
 
You are either trolling or dont understand computing hardware ...which is it ?

Ps3 is a different architecture, you do know that surely. Ps4 games will be compatible as x86.

Also you know about software API and abstraction layers of course, pros and cons I am sure, if not go and read up before making stupid statements.
Cell architecture is based on PowerPC so its understandable that they couldn't get it to work. But Xbox 360 is also based on powerpc. MS just put in the hard work and the effort has paid off in spades.
 
My first downloaded game on ps4 was assassins creed black flag, which i also got for free on ps3. Microsoft are boasting about something that will be business as usual for sony. I think the biggest difference is that sony will let publishers do what they want and Microsoft will be trying to force developers into forwards compatibility. Ps5 is the only pro developer machine next gen imo.
 

Shmunter

Member
It was one game spread across multiple systems from Sony. Same thing yet double standards. Its amazing how both companies use the same practices with one another but they get different or negative reactions based on who you ask? Crazy.

I think this may be where you’re going wrong. TLOU was a ps3 game, it came out prior to PS4 releasing. The PS4 version is actually a remaster re-release that came way later. See the difference?
 

JimiNutz

Banned
I really hope the console launches with an exclusive racing game of some kind. Ideally either:

A new Wipeout
A new Motorstorm
GT7

Just a fun exclusive racing game, with solid online and netcode, that also really shows off the graphical power of the new machine.

I'm also hoping that the final console and controller are both black as well. I'm expecting to be disappointed in this regard though as I think is going to be a white and black mix to match the controller. Disgusting.
 
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Tulipanzo

Member
It was one game spread across multiple systems from Sony. Same thing yet double standards. Its amazing how both companies use the same practices with one another but they get different or negative reactions based on who you ask? Crazy.
What level of brainworms are you on to believe remastering an older game is in anyway similar to refusing to let your devs focus on next-gen as they'd like to do?
 

Redlight

Member
I agree it would kill the console The XSX feels like it's the Xbox One to Xbox One X leap. What is the difference between upgrading from an Xbone to Xbox One X and upgrading from Xbone to XSX? That's the difficulty MS have when marketing it.
I think this is just a concern that's developed out of your personal preferences. Actually, more of a hope than an actual concern.
 

Tulipanzo

Member
It is comical this dream scenario where devs are desperate to release on older gen, rather than ecstatic to leave slow HDD and weak CPUs to die in the past where they belong.
 

Redlight

Member
I did but maybe you should clarify yourself better. I'm not the only one confused with what you said. Hence why others are responding you the same way.
I was pretty clear. I think most of the early replies are reflective of console allegiances rather than the question I actually asked.
 
Cell architecture is based on PowerPC so its understandable that they couldn't get it to work. But Xbox 360 is also based on powerpc. MS just put in the hard work and the effort has paid off in spades.

Cell was only based on PowerPC in that it had one PowerPC core. It then had 6 additional core processors that used an entirely different language.
 
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What level of brainworms are you on to believe remastering an older game is in anyway similar to refusing to let your devs focus on next-gen as they'd like to do?
It's the same game dude! Regardless of ND giving it a higher res and better textures, it's the same game. Both companies are guilty of this practice yet all of a sudden MS are doing us a disservice? SMH
 
I was pretty clear. I think most of the early replies are reflective of console allegiances rather than the question I actually asked.

So you don't believe that Sony is forcing developers to not make cross gen games?

Maybe they are just asking their 1st parties to focus on the PS5 but I don't see that happening to 3rd party developers.
 

geordiemp

Member
Cell architecture is based on PowerPC so its understandable that they couldn't get it to work. But Xbox 360 is also based on powerpc. MS just put in the hard work and the effort has paid off in spades.

Its not JUST the power PC, its the SPUs and you know that.

Also its not about hard work, MS likes big abstraction layers - it would be interesting to see hiow much efficiency and power is lost with that route. It will be loosing X % of potential power with abstraction layers, who knows what X is. But But its 12 Terraflops....yes but how efficient ?

An interesting aricle from beggining of current gen on abstraction layers....by Metro dev.


Abstraction makes BC easier, like windows can run on all hardware, but there is a cost. I am sure DX12 is better, but it wont be as performant as a non abstraction solution.

Oles Shishkovstov: Let's put it that way - we have seen scenarios where a single CPU core was fully loaded just by issuing draw-calls on Xbox One (and that's surely on the 'mono' driver with several fast-path calls utilised). Then, the same scenario on PS4, it was actually difficult to find those draw-calls in the profile graphs, because they are using almost no time and are barely visible as a result.

In general - I don't really get why they choose DX11 as a starting point for the console. It's a console! Why care about some legacy stuff at all? On PS4, most GPU commands are just a few DWORDs written into the command buffer, let's say just a few CPU clock cycles. On Xbox One it easily could be one million times slower because of all the bookkeeping the API does.

Yes mS improved it again and again, but more direct API are more performant...obviously.

So abstraction makes BC easier, but gives up SOME performance. If Ps5 and Xb1 run games the same, or if Ps5 beats XSX at some stuff, will you still be happy ?

Come back and tell us :messenger_sunglasses: .
 
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kevm3

Member
I'm glad Sony is dedicated to creating games that are focused on utilized on exploiting the full power of the PS5. What is really the point of all this new powerful hardware if it is neutered by having to cater to a previous generation of hardware that is over a half decade old? I'm sorry, but I don't want to spend $500 to play last-gen titles with a resolution or framerate bump and a couple of additional graphical filters.
 
The PS4 couldn't even play the PS3 version so they had to make alot of changes for it to work on the PS4. I always considered TLOU on the PS4 to be a PS4 build of the game instead of the PS3 version emulated through BC.
You have posters in this thread stating that Sony aren't the type of company to waste resources on games from a previous generation but.... ta data! TLOU is a prime example, and to add insult to injury, it came way later AFTER the launch of the PS4.

Look, I am in no way picking sides here as I will be getting both systems asap. I just find it funny that people grasp any and every small thing negative about console A for the benefit of promoting console B. It's more so hysterical to know that console B is known for the same thing console A being ridiculed for.
 

Redlight

Member
So you don't believe that Sony is forcing developers to not make cross gen games?
No. Third-parties will be free to do what they want.

In the context of a discussion about Sony releasing PS5 exclusive content I asked this...

If Sony had a PS5 exclusive game that could actually run on PS4 with downscaling, but they didn't release it for the PS4 for the sake of marketing the PS5, would you support that practice?
 

Tulipanzo

Member
It's the same game dude! Regardless of ND giving it a higher res and better textures, it's the same game. Both companies are guilty of this practice yet all of a sudden MS are doing us a disservice? SMH
TloU was never a PS4 game, but was updated for it.
Nobody is critizing MS for upgrading Gears 5 for the Series X, they are criticizing it for refusing to develop new games for next-gen.
 
to waste resources on games from a previous generation

Wasn't really a waste of resources given the sales though?

The Last of Us was one of the most highly rated games from the PS3 generation. It was only logical to being such a successful title over to the PS4.

As for wasting resources given the results and Sonys output over this gen I don't think it was a waste.
 
The Last of Us was a PS3 game ported to PS4 later.

That's not the same as PS4 game being ported to PS3. Not hard to grasp
Again, if you're touting that the PS5 will focus on creating these NEW and GENERATIONAL games that can't be done on the PS4, while not wanting to waste resources on last gen games that should be left where they were made, why did Sony do it with TLOU?

It seems what's good for the goose doesn't apply to the gander.
 
Wasn't really a waste of resources given the sales though?

The Last of Us was one of the most highly rated games from the PS3 generation. It was only logical to being such a successful title over to the PS4.

As for wasting resources given the results and Sonys output over this gen I don't think it was a waste.
Were moving the goalposts now? Isn't it about garnering in a wave of new and generational game and not sales? This is one if those topics that will lose its purpose because people start adding irrelevant points.
 
If Sony had a PS5 exclusive game that could actually run on PS4 with downscaling, but they didn't release it for the PS4 for the sake of marketing the PS5, would you support that practice?

I wouldn't but has that been confirmed yet?

I mean if their PS5s exclusives look like high resolution PS4 titles then I can see that being proof. But then again that theory goes out the window if Sony still produces crossgen titles.

The point is we really can't criticize Sony for something that they haven't done yet.

We have to wait until the reveal to find out more.
 
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