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Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check
- Thread starter keraj37
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I don't realy post a lot (got banned on the other place for discussing this situation
), but you are missinformed yourself if you think that you can compare death tolls between countries to assess the situation right now.Sweden has had a decline in numbers for a very long time now. This week has had the lowest deaths so far. It is also very regional, we have vast areas that without lockdown has as good or better numbers compared to our neighbors.
Stockholm is the region sticking out with "high" numbers. But if you check excess death data you will notice that other countries severely under-report their death tolls. Now sure, if you decide to only compare against small countries like Finland, Norway and New Zealand that actualy stopped the infection very significantly there will seem like Sweden is in a very bad state. There are very few countries who managed this however and it is not assured that the long term effects are better.
The economic effects can not be evaluated yet either so I do not get why people are claiming that since Sweden will see economic effects their tactic was wrong. The quoted articles earlier about our state epidemologist claiming he changed his mind on the swedish tactic are also false by the way.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
I don't realy post a lot (got banned on the other place for discussing this situation
Sweden has had a decline in numbers for a very long time now. This week has had the lowest deaths so far. It is also very regional, we have vast areas that without lockdown has as good or better numbers compared to our neighbors.
Stockholm is the region sticking out with "high" numbers. But if you check excess death data you will notice that other countries severely under-report their death tolls. Now sure, if you decide to only compare against small countries like Finland, Norway and New Zealand that actualy stopped the infection very significantly there will seem like Sweden is in a very bad state. There are very few countries who managed this however and it is not assured that the long term effects are better.
The economic effects can not be evaluated yet either so I do not get why people are claiming that since Sweden will see economic effects their tactic was wrong. The quoted articles earlier about our state epidemologist claiming he changed his mind on the swedish tactic are also false by the way.
You're right, I misread the death rates for Sweden.
There are plenty of other comparisons for Sweden that managed to do better - Australia, and Germany for example (although Australia clearly had the best response). Sweden clearly has the highest death rate amongst these countries. I only chose Finland and Norway because of their similar demographics and location. New Zealand, along with Australia, was meant to be a comparison for Canada.
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There is still not enough data to say that USA has done better than Sweden, the countries present their death statistics in vastly different ways.
And that is still a pretty low count of countries when claiming that the swedish way is a failure and lockdown is the sollution. I also remain of the opinion that the dust has to settle before conclusions can be made (especialy data for excess deaths during the period since that will eliminate some of the differences in presentation of data). The swedish health care system is not overwhelmed. Just yesterday they decided to dismantle the extra "hospital" they built in Stockholm since it was never used. There are plenty of beds available in regular hospitals. Regularly scheduled operations has also restarted everywhere.
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Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
Those were just a few examples. The list goes on- Germany, Ireland, Netherlands, Switzerland, Portugal,, Austria, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Iceland,....tell me when to stop. The list of countries that have done better than Sweden is very large, as the standard they set is quite low.
I wouldnt hold out hope re: your prediction. Sweden is not testing enough people for me to believe they're capturing more deaths than other countries.
I'm not predicting anything here, I'm saying that you cannot cast judgement just yet. You are still assuming you can compare death data and claim who is doing good and bad. This does not even take into account what the long term effects of different tactics are.
And as for deaths, countries like Netherlands are clearly not reportning enough. Same goes for Sweden probably since our official statistics does not take into account cause of death, only if you have tested for the virus prior or after death. Our reported data is at least close to the excess deaths data though.
To be honest we'll never really know.
I think we can look at some facts.
Italy for example had a massive spike in deaths at the beginning of this and a huge rush on hospitals that overwhelmed them and led to many, many, deaths.
Same with France, UK, Spain.
If those places had not locked themselves down there would have been 10s of thousands of additional deaths.
It seems like any country that had one case eventually had more and more and more cases.
The virus basically spread everywhere.
The real question would be if we were in lockdown for too long, I suppose.
If you look at Italy now the number of deaths has really tapered off.
I think realistically we should all be fine with the idea that the lockdowns happened.
Were they a bit TOO strict? Probably.
For me, it's more about the principal of the situation.
People were 100% on board with shaming folks who wanted to go to church or the gym or a pub or even the beach.
Then as soon as there was something they cared about it was all fine to go to a mass public gathering.
The virus isn't gone so the interesting thing to see now is what happens when we open up.
Places went from 0 deaths to 500 deaths a day within like 2 weeks back in March.
I wonder if it's possible that it somehow won't spread like that again.
We'll no for sure about a month from now, I would say.
Could be a bit of a perfect storm for the virus if you have kids going to mass protests at the same time they are being allowed to go back to shops or places of work or to visit family etc.
Starlight Lotice
Member
It's interesting about the Excess Deaths figure as the average over 5 years gives a rough estimate on how many deaths there should be, but given that people locked down and didn't die from Car Accidents, Trees falling on them etc, the average will also be lower for this year, which makes it hard to see how many excess deaths there are.
Of course, you also have higher suicides, domestic abuse as well as other issues with Mental Health to see that the average will also be slightly higher if it is set against the non-deaths of Road/Obstecle Accidents. A more accurate answer will be seen in 3 to 4 years when the averages start to trend like 2015/2019 again.
I know that the UK's "Death" Toll is more than 40,000 as they have mentioned additional deaths separately, so the last "excess" deaths I saw for the UK was at 55,000 from a week or two ago. It could be 60,000 now but they have mentioned that the deaths are lowering overall now (both in Hospitals and in Care Homes).
However, I also know that a lot of people are now being turned away from Hospitals even when they look like they are going to get worse (I was told a family friend has gotten very ill in 4 weeks but the Hospitals won't accept them unless they are at Death's Door, which I suspect is to try and "Keep" the numbers down to become favourable with Europe), so I am sadly starting to become suspicious of even some of the practices the NHS are doing.
This is on top of people who are suspect of having heart attacks and cancer feeling that they may get COVID inside the Hospitals and are taking their life at risk by staying at home. Sadly, people sometimes DO get Pneumonia at Hospitals which makes admission a gamble in itself (as well as the MRSA scandel).
For the UK at least, I can sadly see the deaths rising to at least quadruple to what the suspected figures are because of the many issues highlighted, that may not be directly related to COVID, but the actions the Government and Hospitals have taken that will sadly lead to more deaths. (Less Admissions of other life threatening Issues, Mental Health problems leading to suicides (general and job losses), Domestic Abuse Deaths, Hospital Infections that could be more deadlier than COVID and people being turned away as they don't look that serious but end up being really serious).
I wish we never got to 20,000 deaths to be honest but I sadly think that we will have 200,000 deaths both relating to COVID and the non-direct actions of COVID from the Lockdown and the actions of our Government have done. I suspect it will be the same in many countries as well. (the number from by the end of 2021 btw)
Of course, you also have higher suicides, domestic abuse as well as other issues with Mental Health to see that the average will also be slightly higher if it is set against the non-deaths of Road/Obstecle Accidents. A more accurate answer will be seen in 3 to 4 years when the averages start to trend like 2015/2019 again.
I know that the UK's "Death" Toll is more than 40,000 as they have mentioned additional deaths separately, so the last "excess" deaths I saw for the UK was at 55,000 from a week or two ago. It could be 60,000 now but they have mentioned that the deaths are lowering overall now (both in Hospitals and in Care Homes).
However, I also know that a lot of people are now being turned away from Hospitals even when they look like they are going to get worse (I was told a family friend has gotten very ill in 4 weeks but the Hospitals won't accept them unless they are at Death's Door, which I suspect is to try and "Keep" the numbers down to become favourable with Europe), so I am sadly starting to become suspicious of even some of the practices the NHS are doing.
This is on top of people who are suspect of having heart attacks and cancer feeling that they may get COVID inside the Hospitals and are taking their life at risk by staying at home. Sadly, people sometimes DO get Pneumonia at Hospitals which makes admission a gamble in itself (as well as the MRSA scandel).
For the UK at least, I can sadly see the deaths rising to at least quadruple to what the suspected figures are because of the many issues highlighted, that may not be directly related to COVID, but the actions the Government and Hospitals have taken that will sadly lead to more deaths. (Less Admissions of other life threatening Issues, Mental Health problems leading to suicides (general and job losses), Domestic Abuse Deaths, Hospital Infections that could be more deadlier than COVID and people being turned away as they don't look that serious but end up being really serious).
I wish we never got to 20,000 deaths to be honest but I sadly think that we will have 200,000 deaths both relating to COVID and the non-direct actions of COVID from the Lockdown and the actions of our Government have done. I suspect it will be the same in many countries as well. (the number from by the end of 2021 btw)
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MisterFalcon
Member
Excess deaths can be found at https://www.euromomo.eu/
Unless the governments can somehow hide thousands of deaths from their families which is pretty much impossible to do.
Jezbollah
Member
Understanding excess mortality: international comparisons
This chart compares changes in excess deaths as a proportion of usual deaths during the COVID-19 outbreak for selected European countries. It is an updated version of a chart that appeared in Understanding excess mortality, which explores the fairest way to compare COVID-19 deaths internationally.
According to this, the data from Italy from April only counts for just over half the reporting municipalities. So there is still a lot of missing data out there.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Might I remind you that this thing has a best estimate death rate of .26%, and one of .05% for people under 50? And that it is so weak that 30%+ have no symptoms whatsoever? Are we going to do these "early lockdowns with no hesitation" every time an illness that may or may not be slightly deadlier than the flu emerges? What about for the flu? It is absurd. COVID-19 is simply not worth it. This is crystal clear now. If COVID-19 had the 10% death rates that they were claiming early on, and what the lockdown was predicated upon (even though even early on it was obvious that was not the true death rate, but let's go with it), then yes, it should be considered. But for what the virus actually is, hell no. We can deal with this without forcing billions of people into their homes indefinitely and destroying the economy. It's the way human beings have operated since the beginning of time.
It's a virus. We are all going to get it at some point, if we haven't (and many more of us have had it than the official numbers say). Even the lockdown architects admitted this the beginning, until the lockdown morphed from "flatten the curve" to "eliminate the virus" (something the lockdown CANNOT DO). Australia is just prolonging the inevitable.
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ManaByte
Gold Member
"STAY HOME! SAVE LIVES!"
www.mysanantonio.com
Update: Officials identify family of 6 found dead on Thursday
A welfare check led to the discovery of the bodies after an odor and note set off an area...
www.mysanantonio.com
cryptoadam
Banned
ManaByte
Gold Member
cryptoadam
Banned
Pics of you consummating the marriage or it didn't happen.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
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cryptoadam
Banned
have heckin proof right here.... of just marriage
Holding hands, thats not social distancing gonna call the cops on you!
Well congrats bro, time to start pumping out some little gaffers
cryptoadam
Banned
22K cases in US and counting. Usually we see the drops on the weekend. The cases have been steady with slight increase are we maybe seeing the effect of these riots now?
We will have to see in the next few days. Hopefully the media tells us like they make sure to tell us when a haridresser or chuch goer got sick.
We will have to see in the next few days. Hopefully the media tells us like they make sure to tell us when a haridresser or chuch goer got sick.
ManaByte
Gold Member
California to allow schools, gyms and bars to reopen next week
California will allow day camps, bars, gyms, campgrounds and professional sports to begin reopening with precautions in a week. The nation’s most populated state released guidance F…
ktla.com
Newsom blames a nail salon for the CA outbreak, but most people think it's really like that Seinfeld episode where George thought they were talking about him in Vietnamese. People think that happened to Newsom so he has it out for nail salons.
They didn't even bother to break up the mass gatherings for George Floyd the other day – Met officers were even pictured kneeling in front of their black overlords. And now the UK's health secretary is back to warning people not gather:
Matt Hancock warns protesters NOT to gather at George Floyd demonstrations this weekend amid fears they are spreading coronavirus - after Met's deputy chief called them 'UNLAWFUL'
www.dailymail.co.uk
Matt Hancock warns protesters NOT to gather at George Floyd demonstrations this weekend amid fears they are spreading coronavirus - after Met's deputy chief called them 'UNLAWFUL'
'Do not attend protests of over six people,' says Matt Hancock
Health Secretary Matt Hancock tonight warned Britons not to attend large scale anti-racism demonstrations this weekend due to the risk of coronavirus, which he said remained a 'real threat'.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Hell yeah! Congratulations.
cryptoadam
Banned
This is my government.
Look at him wear that mask like the dog muzzle it is. All while standing in direct proximity in a group of people.
He needs to go to the family of all 7761 canadians and tell them why they couldn't hold a funureal for their loved ones but he can engage in dumb virtue signaling in a giant protests.
Here is a nice JT quote
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said it was up to police on the ground to end the blockades that have crippled the country.
“We are not the kind of country where politicians get to tell the police what to do in operational matters. We have professional police forces right across the country,” he said in Germany on Friday.
JT wasn't taking shit when protests were happening here. What a black two face
McHuj
Member
have heckin proof right here.... of just marriage
Why the black bar over your eyes?
diffusionx
Gold Member
Ask anyone who works with stuff like mortality data, it gets messy very very quickly and it is pretty much impossible to get a true objective answer on anything but the most basic of questions. Which is why you end up having to make assumptions based on your training and judgement, and see how close you get/refine over time. That is what is going to happen here, but it’s not something you can do immediately. This makes the appeals to “the experts” and “the science” to shut down debate throughout this particularly infuriating.
Honk Honk
Unless, of course, you want to protest the lockdown. Then you're an evil white supremacist.
Can't believe people are still in on this garbage. What a joke. We have all been lied to.
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mcz117chief
Member
Collz69
Member
cryptoadam
Banned
CV didnt go away it was just politically needed to ignore it but some people are back to waking up.
DNC will push the riots and ignore CV for as long as they can but once those wane they will go back to careing about CV just for the second wave to hit.
DNC will push the riots and ignore CV for as long as they can but once those wane they will go back to careing about CV just for the second wave to hit.
cryptoadam
Banned
Can anyone confirm the data below?
This is crazy. Looks as if the rules don't apply to BLM here in London. It shows you the cowardice of the British authorities:
Thousands of Black Lives Matter protesters pack into Parliament Square and Anthony Joshua leads march in Watford - despite Priti Patel urging activists across UK to stay away and avoid dangers of crowds
www.dailymail.co.uk
I guess BLM is more important than containing the spread of a supposedly deadly virus.
Thousands of Black Lives Matter protesters pack into Parliament Square and Anthony Joshua leads march in Watford - despite Priti Patel urging activists across UK to stay away and avoid dangers of crowds
Black Lives Matter protesters pack into Parliament Square
The protests in Parliament Square, London, today mark the second weekend of demonstrations sparked by the death of unarmed black man George Floyd in the US last week.
I guess BLM is more important than containing the spread of a supposedly deadly virus.
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Chittagong
Gold Member
This is crazy. Looks as if the rules don't apply to BLM here in London. It shows you the cowardice of the British authorities:
Thousands of Black Lives Matter protesters pack into Parliament Square and Anthony Joshua leads march in Watford - despite Priti Patel urging activists across UK to stay away and avoid dangers of crowds
Black Lives Matter protesters pack into Parliament Square
The protests in Parliament Square, London, today mark the second weekend of demonstrations sparked by the death of unarmed black man George Floyd in the US last week.
I guess BLM is more important than containing the spread of a supposedly deadly virus.
I would say “Darwin award” but this stupidity will inconvenience me as London will need to stay shut longer because of these muppets. Well, actually I don’t care as I am fucking off for 4 months in a week and a half.
It's unbelievable. What's even worse is I've yet to hear any strong words of condemnation from those in power. It's as if they are afraid to speak out against BLM.These gatherings will only make more people disregard the rules about social distancing.
cryptoadam
Banned
Sheepel.
Look how easy it is to get people to fall in line. This is really scary, like Nazi Germany scary.
4 months ago they told everyone to stay home, everyone obeyed, if you questioned you were cancelled.
And now within a week they managed to completely deprogram everyone from Stay Home Save Lives to go out and protest.
Pshychological programming through Tik Tok and Twitter mixed with subliminal message in leftist media.
Look how easy it is to get people to fall in line. This is really scary, like Nazi Germany scary.
4 months ago they told everyone to stay home, everyone obeyed, if you questioned you were cancelled.
And now within a week they managed to completely deprogram everyone from Stay Home Save Lives to go out and protest.
Pshychological programming through Tik Tok and Twitter mixed with subliminal message in leftist media.
Stitch
Gold Member
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
That's it, I'm going to that pop-culture convention.
cryptoadam
Banned
A scene from Vancouver, Canada today.
Remember the government was fine with closing down businesses but not this.
Give it two weeks, and these people will start dropping like flies.
‘Don’t promote them’: B.C. health minister slams viral video supporting groups amid COVID-19 - BC | Globalnews.ca
"I think we've seen, in the past number of weeks, one or two examples of people behaving very badly," said Health Minister Adrian Dix.
globalnews.ca
A dozen or so protesters in Vancouver calling for an end to physical-distancing restrictions are “attempting to promote themselves” and represent “marginal views,” B.C.’s health minister says.
Adrian Dix was responding to a viral video showing a group of about 12 to 15 people gathering closely together on a Vancouver street over the weekend in an attempt to protest public health orders to stem the spread of COVID-19.
The video was posted on Sunday and had been viewed more than 2.9 million times by Tuesday morning.
A vast majority of British Columbians are following the rules, Dix said, calling the video an example of a few people seeking attention.
“I think we’ve seen, in the past number of weeks, one or two examples of people behaving very badly,” Dix said during his daily news briefing on the pandemic response with provincial health officer Dr. Bonnie Henry.
“That may be inevitable in these times that people are attempting to essentially promote themselves — what I think is genuinely, if you look in any depth at their other views … marginal views.”
Wow. Un F'n Believable.
Retard world folks. No longer clown world, we are light years past that now.
JordanN
Banned
It should be a wake up call to the Conservatives about whose country this is anymore.
Because even the Prime Minister is using the protests for his own political gains, how are we suppose to compete against that without being called "racist"?
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cryptoadam
Banned
Irony is liberals pretty much have a stranglehold in Canada. Even Harper was a blip on the map. There is no political gains here.
JT could dress up in black face and get involved in a financial scandal and still win.... Oh wait....
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