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Can we now agree that there is no Secret Sauce Drive?

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Lillie

Lillie

Member
eastwood333 said:
I don't think so given the enormous amount of hype about the SSD's.

In my opinion, it's the Zen CPU's making the biggest difference. For instance, Dirt 5 will be 4k 120fps on XSX
As a console gamer, I have never played a game at 120fps and have no idea what that experience will feel like
Click to expand...

you need a TV with the refresh rate capable of displaying 120fps to truly experience it.
 
VFXVeteran

VFXVeteran

Banned
SuperLupeRap said:
Nothing Sony showed today looked like it was taking advantage of some crazy innovative never seen before SSD.

I expect every game, even the exclusives to run better on Series X hardware specs.
Click to expand...

It was a pipe dream for Sony fans to think SSD would be tied to graphics fidelity. I fought long and hard to try giving the "facts" but as usual, I got ridiculed and trolled for speaking "against" the console. Several people even laughed at my claim that the games would look like current gen on PC.
 
L

LeVictorien

Banned
Nothing Sony presented suggest PS5 SSD's speed advantage will result in anything Series won't be able to do. But the best studios are yet to show anything. While PS5 games put up a better showing than Serie X first "gameplay" showing, nothing seems to suggest we'll get games that look like Project Mara.

 
U

unintelligent orange

Member
R&C definitely showed off the SSD's rapid streaming capabilities with all the tileset and scene switching during standard gameplay. Though I did notice that while the SSD's streaming is fast, the transitions to a new tileset/area did seem a bit noticebly choppy.

It's hard to tell if it's because the game is in pre-alpha (as stated in the bottom left corner of the gameplay reveal trailer) or what exactly is causing it (camera issue?), but it's very possible that the SSD streaming is not quite being where Insomniac needs it to be to pull off what they're trying to do.

I hope in the retail version that all the kinks will have been worked out, as it'd suck to have the game baked to completion but then having to experience the SSD slightly underperforming what is demanded by the gameplay they've made specifically to showcase it.
 
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Jigsaah

Jigsaah

Gold Member
Ogbert said:
The visual fidelity of the cut scenes.

Other than that, not sure. Probably just overall loading times.
Click to expand...
Does the SSD help with visual fidelity. I thought it would be more like...being able to load objects in the environment. Cutscenes are pre-rendered.
 
Dr Bass

Dr Bass

Member
Mister Wolf said:
That world they go to in between that looks like broken glass is obviously loading.
Click to expand...

yes that one second long inter-dimensional area was certainly something.

Remember when Xbox Series X demonstrated their "fast loading" with this?



I hate how this stuff is making me come across like a console fanboy when I'm not at all. I have them all, I get them all etc. But it doesn't mean I won't point out stuff that is quite obvious. I'm also a software engineer so really enjoy the technical aspects of these events.
 
Leyasu

Leyasu

Banned
BlitzerRadic said:
Ratchet and Clank, and it was pretty obvious the SSD was in use here.
Click to expand...
Yep, complete with the new "elevator"... That one secondish part when he was between worlds. In other words. Fucking amazing.

If 1+ second then we can say that roughly 3+ seconds on the XsX if the game was multiplat no.

Really great for next gen imo.
 
Rikkori

Rikkori

Member
EventHorizon said:
The only certainty I stated was that Ratchet and Clank couldn't be done on the Series X and I stand by that. The PS5 can stream data ~80% faster than the Series X. The dimension portal features would take too long to do and be as tightly integrated into gameplay as it was.
Click to expand...

2 seconds x 2 = 4 seconds (worst case scenario). Yeah, definitely couldn't be done on XSX because 2 extra seconds is just too long to wait. :pie_eyeroll:
 
E

eastwood333

Banned
EventHorizon said:
The only certainty I stated was that Ratchet and Clank couldn't be done on the Series X and I stand by that. The PS5 can stream data ~80% faster than the Series X. The dimension portal features would take too long to do and be as tightly integrated into gameplay as it was. How do I know? because it is clear as day that Sony is doing the portals to show off the PS5 I/O speed, so they will be pushing it to the max. You simply won't be able to take away that 80% I/O speed advantage he PS5 has and still be able to do it.

As for everything else, I stand by the fact that they are highly likely. Both Spider-Man and Horizon devs have mentioned features they had to cut or could not do because of bandwidth. Flying in Horizon and seamless transition between inside and out for Spider-Man. It's all but guaranteed that the devs will push those features to the limit on the PS5. That's both because they already wanted to do it and Sony has an incentive to show off things the Series X can't do.
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I don't care what you stand by. There is a game called Median by Bloober that already demonstrated the warp idea in the May Xbox event.

You are not a developer. Stop declaring what XSX can't do. It's meaningless.
 
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Dodkrake

Dodkrake

Banned
unintelligent orange said:
R&C definitely showed off the SSD's rapid streaming capabilities with all the tileset and scene switching during standard gameplay. I did notice that while the SSD's streaming is fast, the loading did seem a bit noticeable/choppy when switching between tilesets.

It's hard to tell if it's because the game is in pre-alpha as stated in the bottom left corner of the gameplay reveal trailer, or if it's an issue with the camera stuttering a bit when switching through one of the portals.

I'd hope in the retail version that all the kinks will have been worked out, as it'd suck to have the game baked to completion but then having to experience the SSD slightly underperforming what is demanded by the gameplay they've made specifically to showcase it.
Click to expand...

Not saying the stuttering wasn't there, but I didn't notice it. Still, it's pretty early alpha, so I'd say they are still ironing that out.

Still, how impressive was that loading?
 
Dr Bass

Dr Bass

Member
Rikkori said:
2 seconds x 2 = 4 seconds (worst case scenario). Yeah, definitely couldn't be done on XSX because 2 extra seconds is just too long to wait. :pie_eyeroll:
Click to expand...

You would absolutely lose the visceral nature of that sequence if you slowed it down even a little. And I don't think it's that simple either.

It still amazes me how much people do not understand what an impact the drive is going to have on games. I literally thought in the first few seconds of that demo that here it is right here, game design that no other system will be able to match. And it's early days. I think the advantage will become more clear over time.
 
Leyasu

Leyasu

Banned
EventHorizon said:
The only certainty I stated was that Ratchet and Clank couldn't be done on the Series X and I stand by that. The PS5 can stream data ~80% faster than the Series X. The dimension portal features would take too long to do and be as tightly integrated into gameplay as it was. How do I know? Because it is clear as day that Sony is doing the portals to show off the PS5 I/O speed, so they will be pushing it to the max. You simply won't be able to take away that 80% I/O speed advantage the PS5 has, and still be able to do it.

As for everything else, I stand by the fact that they are highly likely. Both Spider-Man and Horizon devs have mentioned features they had to cut or could not do because of bandwidth. Flying in Horizon, and seamless transition between inside and out for Spider-Man. It's all but guaranteed that the devs will push those features to the limit on the PS5. That's both because they already wanted to do it and Sony has an incentive to show off things the Series X can't do.
Click to expand...
You are talking absolute nonsense. That 1+ second loading on the ps5 when he changes worlds would be 3+ seconds on the XsX.

An fucking nothingburger compared to the loading time horrors that we have endured this gen. Claiming otherwise makes you look like ...... I'll let you or someone else insert what they want
 
K

KEOPM

Neo Member
Dr Bass said:
yes that one second long inter-dimensional area was certainly something.

Remember when Xbox Series X demonstrated their "fast loading" with this?



I hate how this stuff is making me come across like a console fanboy when I'm not at all. I have them all, I get them all etc. But it doesn't mean I won't point out stuff that is quite obvious. I'm also a software engineer so really enjoy the technical aspects of these events.
Click to expand...


You can definitly see the loading in graphics on the XSX. Something Xbox fans likes to ignore and forget.
 
Leyasu

Leyasu

Banned
Dr Bass said:
yes that one second long inter-dimensional area was certainly something.

Remember when Xbox Series X demonstrated their "fast loading" with this?



I hate how this stuff is making me come across like a console fanboy when I'm not at all. I have them all, I get them all etc. But it doesn't mean I won't point out stuff that is quite obvious. I'm also a software engineer so really enjoy the technical aspects of these events.
Click to expand...

Seeing as you are a software engineer, shouldn't you of all people know that what microsoft used were not built or optimised in anyway for an SSD?
 
Leyasu

Leyasu

Banned
Dr Bass said:
You would absolutely lose the visceral nature of that sequence if you slowed it down even a little. And I don't think it's that simple either.

It still amazes me how much people do not understand what an impact the drive is going to have on games. I literally thought in the first few seconds of that demo that here it is right here, game design that no other system will be able to match. And it's early days. I think the advantage will become more clear over time.
Click to expand...
No you wouldn't and no one would say anything either. This is way overblown.

I could understand it was 10x longer, but a matter of a second or two is nothing
 
A

ACESHIGH

Banned
What I don't get and I don't think folks are stating enough is that… are we going to see shifting worlds as a new gimmick to show off I mean, it will be impressive the first few times but then what?

I am happy as long as games have no hitching and stuttering and load a bit faster. But I don't need even bigger open worlds to showcase the tech just because.
 
Dodkrake

Dodkrake

Banned
Painskiller said:
Keep calm, Phil.
Click to expand...

What? Phil what?

MarkMe2525 said:
Proved it huh... really? Prey 2005 had portals to different levels. Not as polished but that would be expected with a 15 year gap. I saw nothing definitive that you could use to say that couldn't be done on PS4 pro much less Xbox series x
Click to expand...

Do you really want to compare the graphical quality, geometry density, and level design, of R&C and Prey? LOL
 
K

KEOPM

Neo Member
Leyasu said:
No you wouldn't and no one would say anything either. This is way overblown.

I could understand it was 10x longer, but a matter of a second or two is nothing
Click to expand...

Like how 60fps and 30fps doesn't matter right? When you are so used to seamless like world and then you are back to loading again you will then notice the differences.
 
EventHorizon

EventHorizon

Member
Leyasu said:
You are talking absolute nonsense. That 1+ second loading on the ps5 when he changes worlds would be 3+ seconds on the XsX.

An fucking nothingburger compared to the loading time horrors that we have endured this gen. Claiming otherwise makes you look like ...... I'll let you or someone else insert what they want
Click to expand...
Right, and you totally missed the point where I said that it was also integrated into gameplay. It would be annoying a h3ll to have to wait 3+ seconds ever time you did a dimension jump. Seriously watch that trailer again and pause the video every time he goes through a portal for 2+ seconds. You simply could not do a game like that.

Ratchet & Clank uses the dimension jump as a part of continuous gameplay, not as a level loading. That is the fundamental difference between how the PS5 and the XSX view the SSD.
 
Leyasu

Leyasu

Banned
KEOPM said:
Like how 60fps and 30fps doesn't matter right? When you are so used to seamless like world and then you are back to loading again you will then notice the differences.
Click to expand...
Apples to oranges.

But are you really going to cling to 1+ seconds vs 3+ seconds as being a gamechanger?

Leave it out.

I ain't downplaying the SSD in the ps5, but I wont be crying over a second or two difference on the XsX either
 
Dodkrake

Dodkrake

Banned
VFXVeteran said:
I saw that and that was impressive. But that's not graphics fidelity.
Click to expand...

Please clarify something for me.

If we assume the PS5 can hold the same amount of assets in RAM than the XBSX, and that the latter has a drive that is twice as slow, can't the PS5 utilize higher quality assets for any given scene?
 
T

Trueblakjedi

Member
EventHorizon said:
No way the Series X is doing Ratchet & Clank's dimension portals. We'll have to see more gameplay to tell about the other games. For example I can pretty much guarantee you that you'll be able to ride flying dinosaurs in Horizon at a speed that wouldn't be possible on the Series X, and the world density in Spider-Man will likely be more than the Series X could handle.
Click to expand...

Im always amazed by peoples surety in these conversations.
 
T

Trueblakjedi

Member
Dodkrake said:
Please clarify something for me.

If we assume the PS5 can hold the same amount of assets in RAM than the XBSX, and that the latter has a drive that is twice as slow, can't the PS5 utilize higher quality assets for any given scene?
Click to expand...

Depends on compression and efficiency (texture selection). If you transport only what you need you can actually transport alot more or higher fidelity.
 
Leyasu

Leyasu

Banned
EventHorizon said:
Right, and you totally missed the point where I said that it was also integrated into gameplay. It would be annoying a h3ll to have to wait 3+ seconds ever time you did a dimension jump. Seriously watch that trailer again and pause the video every time he goes through a portal for 2+ seconds. You simply could not do a game like that.

Ratchet & Clank uses the dimension jump as a part of continuous gameplay, not as a level loading. That is the fundamental difference between how the PS5 and the XSX view the SSD.
Click to expand...
Yes, and there is a little bit of loading when he does jump. An amazingly low bit of loading. But that little bit of loading extended by a couple of seconds breaks nothing. I seriously cannot believe people are claiming otherwise.

Especially after this gens loading times
 
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MarkMe2525

MarkMe2525

Member
Dodkrake said:
What? Phil what?



Do you really want to compare the graphical quality, geometry density, and level design, of R&C and Prey? LOL
Click to expand...
Way to change the subject, not once did I make the argument that they were graphically equivalent. You stated that ratchet & clank proves that there's things that the PS5 can do that no other console can including Xbox series x. I'm questioning that statement you made hence why I replied to that specific statement and provided a counterpoint.
 
Hobbygaming

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Trueblakjedi said:
Um if you watched it.. They used a pink/purple interdimensional sphere to hide the transition between locations. It was NOT instant nor even close.

Infact none of the glass shards in the space even showed what the next space would look like. Watch the video again.
Click to expand...
It was very fast and it makes perfect sense to use a portal because otherwise why would they change the location on the fly
 
Dodkrake

Dodkrake

Banned
MarkMe2525 said:
Way to change the subject, not once did I make the argument that they were graphically equivalent. You stated that ratchet & clank proves that there's things that the PS5 can do that no other console can including Xbox series x. I'm questioning that statement you made hence why I replied to that specific statement and provided a counterpoint.
Click to expand...

I did not change the subject, you compared apples to oranges.
 
VFXVeteran

VFXVeteran

Banned
Dodkrake said:
Please clarify something for me.

If we assume the PS5 can hold the same amount of assets in RAM than the XBSX, and that the latter has a drive that is twice as slow, can't the PS5 utilize higher quality assets for any given scene?
Click to expand...

I would say on "more" assets. Higher quality as in higher res textures? Nah. People have to remember that ultimately the PS5 has to render those assets. They aren't for free. It has a graphical power disadvantage compared to the XsX. So if it has higher res textures, maybe it'll run at a lower resolution and slower FPS. Would you want that compromise? I wouldn't.
 
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T

Trueblakjedi

Member
Dodkrake said:
Let's not overcomplicate. What I said is true, right? So in that sense, you can have more complex / higher fidelity textures, etc, which directly impacts graphical quality.
Click to expand...

You can achieve what you say in more ways than the way the PS5 engineers chose. That is true also.
 
Dodkrake

Dodkrake

Banned
VFXVeteran said:
I would say on "more" assets. Higher quality as in higher res textures? Nah. People have to remember that ultimately the PS5 has to render those assets. They aren't for free. It has a graphical power disadvantage compared to the XsX. So if it has higher res textures, maybe it'll run at a lower resolution and slower FPS. Would you want that compromise? I wouldn't.
Click to expand...

Thanks. You are more knowledgeable than me by a mile, and I hope you didn't see my comment as questioning that.

Furthering the point, I honestly think it all depends. I'm gonna do a very quick Apples to Oranges comparison, but that I feel stands.

I worked for a TV studio and we captured data in 4 and 8k (rare instances). Most data was to be downscaled to 1080p for regular HD tv consumption, which is compressed as hell as is. Want to know what's fun? Even with a bloody render farm for 4k RAW processing, in our 60 to 80 inch monitors I could barely tell the difference between compressed 4k and RAW 1080p upscalled. They looked very similar.

Of course there were differences, but nothing that screamed "OMG i's shit"

Now, for gaming, I don't mind a slight hit in resolution if I can have the same amount of stuff on my screen. I can tell between 720p and 1080p easily, I can see the difference in fidelity between 1080p and 1440p, but from there on yeah, it looks very samey. I would honestly prefer newgen consoles to go native 1440p upscaled to 4k with a bigger increase in graphical quality. And yes, I'm expecting Xbox games to have the edge in resolution, but not by much.

My 2 cents, and I may be totally wrong applying the TV logic to gaming.
 
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