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[Dodkrake]

Okay since you want to be obtuse, what specifically was shown during ratchet & clank gameplay that led you to the conclusion that it could not be pulled off on any other console including Xbox series x?

1 second load times.

Cannot be pulled off in the Xbox series X if you consider the same game. The Xbox would take at least double, so the PS5 can load twice as much in RAM within the same load.

Not being obtuse, just sticking to the facts.

 

[Mokus]

It seemed really forced to me, like they couldn't find a way to demonstrate the SSD in a real, thoughtful matter so they push this mediocre mechanic. Hope it's better than the gameplay shows. Graphics are good but not a huge leap.

I agree with you about being forced and I hope, the final, product will be way more polished.

But also it was necessary because it is more clear what is the impact of SSD in games, unlike in countless threads where people trying to put into words what magic we will see.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Thanks. You are more knowledgeable than me by a mile, and I hope you didn't see my comment as questioning that.

Furthering the point, I honestly think it all depends. I'm gonna do a very quick Apples to Oranges comparison, but that I feel stands.

I worked for a TV studio and we captured data in 4 and 8k (rare instances). Most data was to be downscaled to 1080p for regular HD tv consumption, which is compressed as hell as is. Want to know what's fun? Even with a bloody render farm for 4k RAW processing, in our 60 to 80 inch monitors I could barely tell the difference between compressed 4k and RAW 1080p upscalled. They looked very similar.

Of course there were differences, but nothing that screamed "OMG i's shit"

Now, for gaming, I don't mind a slight hit in resolution if I can have the same amount of stuff on my screen. I can tell between 720p and 1080p easily, I can see the difference in fidelity between 1080p and 1440p, but from there on yeah, it looks very samey. I would honestly prefer newgen consoles to go native 1440p upscaled to 4k with a bigger increase in graphical quality. And yes, I'm expecting Xbox games to have the edge in resolution, but not by much.

My 2 cents, and I may be totally wrong applying the TV logic to gaming.

No. I mean that's a subjective opinion for now. I say "for now" because as renders start to become more complex, you'll be able to tell more. Think of resolution as a sampling rate for an infinite resolution scene. When you start adding more complexity to the image while it's in motion, a lower resolution will start to undersample the scene and your eye will pick up artifacts. We aren't there yet for that kind of complex rendering but holding at 1440p isn't going to stand the test of time.

 

[mcjmetroid]

Nothing Sony showed today looked like it was taking advantage of some crazy innovative never seen before SSD.

I expect every game, even the exclusives to run better on Series X hardware specs.

Rschet and clank did for sure. That certainly wouldn't be possible on current hardware.

But rachet also exposed the fullness of this. Loading games and areas really fast is a good thing but unless you're doing crazy fast chase sequences or portals to other worlds it's just not going to get used all that often practically.

Maybe I'm lacking imagination here though.

 

[Trueblakjedi]

1 second load times.

Cannot be pulled off in the Xbox series X if you consider the same game. The Xbox would take at least double, so the PS5 can load twice as much in RAM within the same load.

Not being obtuse, just sticking to the facts.

Thats wholly a guess. Especially since its an expanding portal so the introduction of the level is slow across the field of view.... buys time to load everything.

Impressive but nothing we havent seen before

 

[MarkMe2525]

1 second load times.

Cannot be pulled off in the Xbox series X if you consider the same game. The Xbox would take at least double, so the PS5 can load twice as much in RAM within the same load.

Not being obtuse, just sticking to the facts.

Just what I thought, your whole basis of your argument was conjecture. I guess this argument would be valid if you loaded an entire level into RAM all at once but because that is not the case and there is such a thing as culling, you cannot make this argument as it is baseless.

Edit: I forgot to mention.... Facts

 

[SuperLupeRap]

What about Ratchet and Clank?

The part where he travels between many different dimensions does seem to indicate extremely fast asset loading.

I was talking about in comparison to the Series X. I don't believe at all that the Xbox can't do that as well.

 

[Hobbygaming]

You could have portal opening that shows the level on the other side... it would be simple 2d portal.. it shouldnt require a 2+ second gapping... *shrug*

2 seconds seems like a silly, tribal thing to jump on... no offense

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

Ever since building a gaming PC last fall and being able to maintain between 90-120fps on most current games, these new buzz words and console showings have seemed lackluster. I know actually playing the game will be different but so far...meh.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Nothing Sony showed today looked like it was taking advantage of some crazy innovative never seen before SSD.

I expect every game, even the exclusives to run better on Series X hardware specs.

No dude, we can't say jack shit about anything. You can't say something doesn't work without seeing it in action.

Make better threads.

 

[SuperLupeRap]

Just a friendly reminder that SuperLupeRap is very "Pro-Xbox".

If you think the SSD hype was overblown because of this event only, then be prepared to eat some crows this coming holiday season.

Oh so now we have to wait? Secret sauce still stirring?

 

[Dodkrake]

No. I mean that's a subjective opinion for now. I say "for now" because as renders start to become more complex, you'll be able to tell more. Think of resolution as a sampling rate for an infinite resolution scene. When you start adding more complexity to the image while it's in motion, a lower resolution will start to undersample the scene and your eye will pick up artifacts. We aren't there yet for that kind of complex rendering but holding at 1440p isn't going to stand the test of time.

True, I can agree with that. I would say both new gen consoles will be unable to deliver that true 4k next gen graphical leap with native 4k at 60fps, but to be quite frank, I'm not the type of guy striving for 60fps 4k gameplay everywhere. I understand others will prefer higher resolutions and framerates, and it looks like the XBSX will be the console for that added (small) bump, especially for 3rd pary games, I prefer my games to run a solid framerate, even if that framerates are 30fps. Same for PC, I always go for whatever I can set as a solid number, variable sucks ass.

Thanks for clarifying, btw. Nice to have a civil discussion where no console warring is pulled.

 

[DoctaThompson]

If games will be defined by curtain loading screens, rather than gameplay and graphics, I don't want to be in next gen. I swear it seems half of the games have some kind of teleporting, portal, or some time rewinding aspect. This is a horrible gimmick to try and sell the idea of needing a SSD @ XXgbps.

I like how portal, Forza horizon, prey, dishonoured, and other games displayed this, but there were only a handful and far in between of these titles. Now every other game will try and incorporate it to some extent. I'll take the days where bloom was scattered on literally everything, even the trees in a pitch black environment over this gimmicky stuff.

 

[SlimySnake]

You didn't see Ratchet & Clanks changing from one environment to a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT one instantly without a hitch?

There were plenty of hitches.

Sony did a poor job showcasing not just the ssd but also the cpu upgrades. These guys couldn't sell a weekend with a Victoria secret model if they tried.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I was talking about in comparison to the Series X. I don't believe at all that the Xbox can't do that as well.

You mean the asset streaming? It's just going to be slower on the XSX.

 

[Tesseract]

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Oh so now we have to wait? Secret sauce still stirring?

Oh YES, just you wait for the actual consoles to.be released and be prepared to eat some crow from Jim Ryan himself

 

[Shadowstar39]

WTF is up with the lack of multiplayer titles?

Every game was a single player "push up on left joystick" type game. How does Sony not invest in multiplayer games/studios after witnessing the Battle Royale explosion in 2017/2018.

Because they are smart
Older gamers like me don't want loot box games with piss boys pumping their shit music and cursing out their moms over voice chat.

We have 3rd party for that. Not to mention no battle Royale is competing with fortnite or apex. Youd be a fool to try. Look at all the ones who did and failed. Look at games like battle born, drawn2 death, lawbreakers, anthem... All trying to get that lootbox multiplayer preteen stream weirdo purple hair crowd.

I am glad we have a company dedicated to single player games. A lot of devs almost went under and many did chasing mmos, f2p, moba, etc.. There is only so many players in a crowded market and it's usually kids who play those games as they don't cost money, similar to phone games. Kids are sheeple really as they usually only follow what's trendy, or what their friends play.

The fact that demon souls is being remaster alone makes the console a must buy for me. Add on some jrpgs, wrpgs, turn based strategy, space games, 3rd person hack and slash, action adventure, single player fPS etc.. I'm all in. Plus most will still be busy with Cyberpunk and ghost of tushima as well.

I'm also soooo so glad gran turismo is going back to its roots. I hated the shit campaign of gt sport. A game solely focused on multiplayer. Gt7 even showed a menu screen that reminds me of ps1 Era of gt greatness. I can't wait. (oh there is your multiplayer game). Plus we get annual cod and all the 3rd party stuff.

Now I wouldn't mind an fPS game like resistance or kill one to come back with long single player campaign with multiplayer suite, but that's a gamble for Sony. They invested heavily into fPS mp games during the ps3 Era and most of the games died as for thsy portion as they couldn't compete with cod.

We also don't know what lies around the corner. A warhawk reboot, colony wars, twisted metal, Socom would rock. Unfortunately those devs don't exist anymore.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Wasn't one of the main claims as far as the PS5s SSD the fact you could stream in levels as fast as you rotate the camera? I saw no pop in either, something else that was mentioned. I'd say we saw the advantages but some didn't actually realise it.

 

[itsjustJEFF]

Nothing Sony showed today looked like it was taking advantage of some crazy innovative never seen before SSD.

I expect every game, even the exclusives to run better on Series X hardware specs.

Will it make you feel better about your next gen purchase? If so, then sure. Yes! Do you feel better?

 

[Leyasu]

Rschet and clank did for sure. That certainly wouldn't be possible on current hardware.

But rachet also exposed the fullness of this. Loading games and areas really fast is a good thing but unless you're doing crazy fast chase sequences or portals to other worlds it's just not going to get used all that often practically.

Maybe I'm lacking imagination here though.

I have to agree.

Until a game shows otherwise, RC dispelled the myth of the SSD. That little loading screen between worlds would be a tiny little bit longer on the XsX.

SSDs are going to be great next gen though.

 

[EventHorizon]

I don't care what you stand by. There is a game called Median by Bloober that already demonstrated the warp idea in the May Xbox event.

You are not a developer. Stop declaring what XSX can't do. It's meaningless.

What in the world are you talking about? I assume you are talking about The Medium from Bloober Team, and there is no impressive warp mechanics. Please tell me what you think in this reveal comes anywhere near the I/O speed demonstrated in the Ratchet & Clank game.



And I can declare what the Series X can't do. We know the SSD speeds and Sony is ~80% faster. Say there are two cars A and B. Car A's top speed is 55 MPH and Car B's is 100 MPH (80% faster). If you know that it takes Car B going its top speed 5 minute on a highway to make a trip, then you also know that Car A can't do that trip in 5 minutes. The same applies here. If Sony is maxing out the SSD speed to do those dimension jumps in that short amount of time, there is no way the XSX can do it in the same amount of time. It's just math.

 

[Trueblakjedi]

2 seconds seems like a silly, tribal thing to jump on... no offense

Not when people say that "XXX system couldnt do that" or that everything will be "instant" or a "generation ahead."

i think those statements are more tribal than looking for proof of the statement from a first party and not seeing it.

 

[Mister Wolf]

With all the big talk about it being twice as fast we expected that to correlate to something more than "well Ratchet will go through the portal a second faster". One of the biggest examples of splitting hairs I've read in a minute.

 

[Jigsaah]

I think Ratchet and Clank was probably the best example...but is the spirit of what they did much better than what you would see in Portal?

Seems like they coulda done something more original.

I suppose this is just a preview and maybe there's more to it than what they showed us. Otherwise Ratchet and clank was probably the best showing of what the Ps5 can do. It's looked next gen to me.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

The question remains if Series X can pull off the same

Of course it can, the transitions would just take approximately twice as long, or you would have to load half as much. This is a pure numbers game.

You could do it on current gen too, but boy would it suck.

 

[Leyasu]

What in the world are you talking about? I assume you are talking about The Medium from Bloober Team, and there is no impressive warp mechanics. Please tell me what you think in this reveal comes anywhere near the I/O speed demonstrated in the Ratchet & Clank game.



And I can declare what the Series X can't do. We know the SSD speeds and Sony is ~80% faster. Say there are two cars A and B. Car A's top speed is 55 MPH and Car B's is 100 MPH (80% faster). If you know that it takes Car B going its top speed 5 minute on a highway to make a trip, then you also know that Car A can't do that trip in 5 minutes. The same applies here. If Sony is maxing out the SSD speed to do those dimension jumps in that short amount of time, there is no way the XSX can do it in the same amount of time. It's just math.

Now take those down to mere seconds. Say 1.5 seconds vs 3.5 seconds, is that really a problem? Be honest now

 

[Hobbygaming]

Not when people say that "XXX system couldnt do that" or that everything will be "instant" or a "generation ahead."

i think those statements are more tribal than looking for proof of the statement from a first party and not seeing it.

It's great for that kind of asset loading, a whole different area by just going through a portal in only 2 seconds

The game looks fantastic

 

[Trueblakjedi]

It's great for that kind of asset loading, a whole different area by just going through a portal in only 2 seconds

The game looks fantastic

I agree here. R&C looked great. I will buy it. but these SSD comments are just too much.. from some posters.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

What in the world are you talking about? I assume you are talking about The Medium from Bloober Team, and there is no impressive warp mechanics. Please tell me what you think in this reveal comes anywhere near the I/O speed demonstrated in the Ratchet & Clank game.



And I can declare what the Series X can't do. We know the SSD speeds and Sony is ~80% faster. Say there are two cars A and B. Car A's top speed is 55 MPH and Car B's is 100 MPH (80% faster). If you know that it takes Car B going its top speed 5 minute on a highway to make a trip, then you also know that Car A can't do that trip in 5 minutes. The same applies here. If Sony is maxing out the SSD speed to do those dimension jumps in that short amount of time, there is no way the XSX can do it in the same amount of time. It's just math.

You sure you wanna go down this road? 'Cuz, well...

x3... "Do the math" doesn't usually work out that well, going by history.

 

[Xplainin]

That’s possible only on PS5. I’m sure of that.

Medium on the XSX already showed that it's not only possible on PS5. In fact Medium looked more impressive doing it.
Its starting to come across as a gimmick now.

 

[DoctaThompson]

PC could load all of the assets from an external SCSI drive, paired with a hamster wheel and typewriter with cherry mx switches, and the first mouse made by Apple, with a boiled egg as the mouse ball.

 

[Andodalf]

IMO ratchet definitely looks like it wouldn’t be possible without a SSD. Not sure how good of one it needs, but an SSD for sure

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Can we now agree you were gonna make this thread No Matter What Was Shown.

 

[Ten_Fold]

Give it time, maybe 2-3 years you will see people take advantage of the tech. It’s too early.

 

[Painskiller]

Medium on the XSX already showed that it's not only possible on PS5. In fact Medium looked more impressive doing it.
Its starting to come across as a gimmick now.

Yeah, wishful thinking. Xbox has the most radical fanboys.
Ratchet showed this in gameplay, Medium is just CGI.

 

[fallingdove]

Nothing Sony showed today looked like it was taking advantage of some crazy innovative never seen before SSD.

I expect every game, even the exclusives to run better on Series X hardware specs.

You wouldn’t have seen anything even if there was something there. Your bias glasses are crazy thick.

 

[Woodchipper]

Ratchet & Clank was super fucking impressive in my opinion.

 

[LeVictorien]

1 second load times.

Cannot be pulled off in the Xbox series X if you consider the same game. The Xbox would take at least double, so the PS5 can load twice as much in RAM within the same load.

Not being obtuse, just sticking to the facts.

It isn't solely about speed though but also how much data there needs to be loaded before appearing on screen. If the amount of data needed can be rendered in a single frame with Series X SSD's speed then there is no issue. It'll come down to what exactly do you need to see before everything is loaded.

 

[Xplainin]

1 second load times.

Cannot be pulled off in the Xbox series X if you consider the same game. The Xbox would take at least double, so the PS5 can load twice as much in RAM within the same load.

Not being obtuse, just sticking to the facts.

So how much data came off the RAM to replace the image in the screen?
I mean you seem pretty definitive on it? And in all actuality, as the data comes off the RAM and not the SSD, as the PS5 has slower RAM bandwidth, the PS5 would be slower.

 

[SoloKingRobert]

The games that will fully utilize SSD years out.

You're right. By the time Sony takes advantage of the SSD, Microsoft would've released a console by then that's faster than the Speed of Light.

 

[Xplainin]

Yeah, wishful thinking. Xbox has the most radical fanboys.
Ratchet showed this in gameplay, Medium is just CGI.

There are no words for you.

 

[Dodkrake]

So how much data came off the RAM to replace the image in the screen?
I mean you seem pretty definitive on it? And in all actuality, as the data comes off the RAM and not the SSD, as the PS5 has slower RAM bandwidth, the PS5 would be slower.

The fill rate is the same due to the Xbox having more CU's. so...

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Because they are smart
Older gamers like me don't want loot box games with piss boys pumping their shit music and cursing out their moms over voice chat.

We have 3rd party for that. Not to mention no battle Royale is competing with fortnite or apex. Youd be a fool to try. Look at all the ones who did and failed. Look at games like battle born, drawn2 death, lawbreakers, anthem... All trying to get that lootbox multiplayer preteen stream weirdo purple hair crowd.

I am glad we have a company dedicated to single player games. A lot of devs almost went under and many did chasing mmos, f2p, moba, etc.. There is only so many players in a crowded market and it's usually kids who play those games as they don't cost money, similar to phone games. Kids are sheeple really as they usually only follow what's trendy, or what their friends play.

The fact that demon souls is being remaster alone makes the console a must buy for me. Add on some jrpgs, wrpgs, turn based strategy, space games, 3rd person hack and slash, action adventure, single player fPS etc.. I'm all in. Plus most will still be busy with Cyberpunk and ghost of tushima as well.

I'm also soooo so glad gran turismo is going back to its roots. I hated the shit campaign of gt sport. A game solely focused on multiplayer. Gt7 even showed a menu screen that reminds me of ps1 Era of gt greatness. I can't wait. (oh there is your multiplayer game). Plus we get annual cod and all the 3rd party stuff.

Now I wouldn't mind an fPS game like resistance or kill one to come back with long single player campaign with multiplayer suite, but that's a gamble for Sony. They invested heavily into fPS mp games during the ps3 Era and most of the games died as for thsy portion as they couldn't compete with cod.

We also don't know what lies around the corner. A warhawk reboot, colony wars, twisted metal, Socom would rock. Unfortunately those devs don't exist anymore.

I'm not interested in your personal preferences. I don't think Sony should be either.

Multiplayer went big time this generation and it's only getting bigger. I just don't see the value in showing a bunch of linear single player games with different art styles one after the next.

Those types of games are fine for people like you, but there's a monstrously large market craving interesting looking multiplayer games and Sony left that demographic wanting.

Sony would be foolish to ignore multiplayer, or "leave it to the third parties" as you suggest. Hopefully Naughty Dog will blow out it's Factions II after TLoU2 gets released.

Btw, very few single player games "competed" with Fortnite or Apex so it's an odd phrasing. We do know that about 5 or 6 Battle Royale games were extremely successful this gen and there really weren't very many attempts.

 

[Keihart]

The Medium at the Xbox event seemed to be doing the same.

What I mean is people were talking like the PS5 SSD would help the PS5 do things the Xbox can't.

I'm interested in The Medium, but they didn't really show transitions, the RC trailer it's full of them and they are done quite frecuently and fast. It even seems to be a gadget.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I'm not interested in your personal preferences. I don't think Sony should be either.

Multiplayer went big time this generation and it's only getting bigger. I just don't see the value in showing a bunch of linear single player games with different art styles one after the next.

Those types of games are fine for people like you, but there's a monstrously large market craving interesting looking multiplayer games and Sony left that demographic wanting.

What evidence do you have of this? PS4 sales certainly don't back this up?

 

[Jigsaah]

What in the world are you talking about? I assume you are talking about The Medium from Bloober Team, and there is no impressive warp mechanics. Please tell me what you think in this reveal comes anywhere near the I/O speed demonstrated in the Ratchet & Clank game.



And I can declare what the Series X can't do. We know the SSD speeds and Sony is ~80% faster. Say there are two cars A and B. Car A's top speed is 55 MPH and Car B's is 100 MPH (80% faster). If you know that it takes Car B going its top speed 5 minute on a highway to make a trip, then you also know that Car A can't do that trip in 5 minutes. The same applies here. If Sony is maxing out the SSD speed to do those dimension jumps in that short amount of time, there is no way the XSX can do it in the same amount of time. It's just math.

Ok, you seem a bit sensitive but I can't just go by letting you go on like this. I should also mention that what I'm about to say is rumor regarding the Xbox Velocity feature.

Based on your analogy, I don't think the xbox car has to run the race at all because of it's ability to pre-load large portions of the game for instant retrieval.

We're comparing apples and oranges in terms of technical philosophy here. Sony is all about getting from point A to point B as fast as possible. Xbox is trying to finish the race before it even starts.

Screw it, you're not gonna understand that. Somebody help me out please?

 

[Jigga117]

you need a TV with the refresh rate capable of displaying 120fps to truly experience it.

I do thanks 77 & 55 C9 OLED

 

[Deleted member 471617]

It's going to take years for developers to fully utilize the SSD. Ratchet was cool with the rifts but in between going in and coming out looks like a hidden load screen to me because if not, why have that there?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

What evidence do you have of this? PS4 sales certainly don't back this up?

Because they didn't showcase any multiplayer games at the PS5 event and Fortnite was, by far, the most successful and popular game in PS4s entire catalogue.