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[longdi]

You know the speed of the drive is only one factor in what games can do, right? It's not the only factor. Again, people just had their expectations way out of line. Happens every gen.

Tbf the UE5 kinda set the baseline, since it is a thirty party engine, or so we thought.
We expected a bit more from Sony own studios.
Also by fluffy audio, i thought GT7 did not sound like a big upgrade in audio quality, despite Sony hyping viewers to put on our headphones, thus expecting this game to show off the Tempest Engine.

 

[Trimesh]

I always thought it was basically bullshit - just something that the "my plastic box is better than your plastic box" console warriors could seize on once it became clear that the XSX was a more powerful console by conventional metrics. As always, we will have to wait for the games (and possibly the 2nd generation of games) to find out how much difference it makes in the real world.

I've also got to say that personally I've paid way less attention to anything Cerny says ever since he pulled that FP16 stunt with the PS4 pro, since it made it very clear that he's now basically a marketing guy and not an engineer. Hence I can had no real confidence that the PS5 SSD is really a huge advance and not merely snake oil.

 

[Lethal01]

Tbf the UE5 kinda set the baseline, since it is a thirty party engine, or so we thought.
We expected a bit more from Sony own studios.
Also by fluffy audio, i thought GT7 did not sound like a big upgrade in audio quality, despite Sony hyping viewers to put on our headphones, thus expecting this game to show off the Tempest Engine.

Wow, you people's expectations really were insane.
You should not expect titles announced before the console is even out to look as good as the tech demo made to showcase what's possible with an engine at it's best. Atleast wait until Unreal Engine 5 is actually out.

By the end of this gen that mind blowing demo will look like a budget AA game but let's live in the present.

 

[carlosrox]

There is no Secret Sauce Drive, because Solid State Drives work, they are not a fantasy.

There was a noticeable pause every single time it did that world switching thing though.

Not the best way to show off this shiny new tech.

 

[shenmue mugen]

The Medium at the Xbox event seemed to be doing the same.

What I mean is people were talking like the PS5 SSD would help the PS5 do things the Xbox can't.

But the complexity of Ratchet's environments, its effects, dynamic objects and traversal speed (even audio comes into play) needs a much more agressive and faster streaming when loading these assets than the scenario presented in The Medium.

 

[Trueblakjedi]

Oh My God you are desperate. Yes I looked into Titanfall 2, and looked at that specific mission. No! That is nothing like what Ratchet & Clank is doing. In Titanfall 2 you don't move to a new level. IT IS THE EXACT SAME LEVEL!!! They just switch some assets to make it look a bit different. R&C is loading an entirely new level that looks nothing like the one before. There is ABSOLUTELY no way current gen consoles could come anywhere near to doing what the PS5 is doing. Just stop trying to pretend they are.

You entire argument is like saying, "There are XB1 games that can do 4K60. They just devised a nice way to do it at 1080p 30 FPS". That is ridiculous. Yes, the XSX will have to reduce its textures sizes and/or make artificial load times and/or reduce level sizes to do what the PS5 can do. Those "nice tricks" you are applauding are exactly the types of concessions people say the XSX will have to make due to its slower SSD. You haven't discovered some loophole. You fell face first in a pile of dog poop and said it tasted good.

Nobody said the XSX's SSD wouldn't perform better than a hard drive. That is a straw man. What was said is that rlythe PS5's SSD is at least 80% faster than the XSX SSD with 4 more priority levels. That's the comparison you need to focus on, not current gen hard drives. The key is what will the XSX have to give up to make up that 80% difference in speed.

Nearly every assertion you make here is either hyperbole, assumption or wishful thinking.

R&C is basically first party. It used a transition elevator. Period.

You have zero basis for your claim that nothing else could match or that texture quality and variety would diminish other your imagination.

Several posters have described in detail how XSX could match the throughput even with the raw deficit.

 

[Trueblakjedi]

The SSD showed more amazement in one game. Than 12 TFs showed in any of the games Microsoft has shown

Hellblade 2 looked better than anything shown today. Easily.

Returnal was the most advanced next geny game on display followed by the outdoor environments of RE, Square's game then R&C.

July should be interesting indeed.

 

[Lethal01]

There was a noticeable pause every single time it did that world switching thing though.

Not the best way to show off this shiny new tech.

It's showcasing the tech going from a 20 second loading sequence to a 1 second transition with a dropped frame or 2. At launch...
They knocked it out of the stratosphere.

 

[diffusionx]

Tbf the UE5 kinda set the baseline, since it is a thirty party engine, or so we thought.
We expected a bit more from Sony own studios.
Also by fluffy audio, i thought GT7 did not sound like a big upgrade in audio quality, despite Sony hyping viewers to put on our headphones, thus expecting this game to show off the Tempest Engine.

UE5 was a tech demo man. Not a real game. Again - every gen this happens.

I agree - Sony should have carved out a bit of time (maybe cut out the gay furry high school trailer) and show off what the new controller and audio could do. But, there's plenty of time.

 

[Trueblakjedi]

It's showcasing the tech going from a 20 second loading sequence to a 1 second transition with a dropped frame or 2. At launch...
They knocked it out of the stratosphere.

Really? It was more like a 2+ second loading screen.

 

[30yearsofhurt]

Poor OP. So salty.

 

[Lethal01]

Really? It was more like a 2+ second loading screen.

It was 43 frames,just under 1.5 seconds in the 3 cases I checked, I suppose it could have went above 2 but I don't care that much.
point is it's a big jump and it's coming from the literal first games to release on the system.

 

[Xenon]

PS5 replacing elevators with futuristic portal space. Sorry but Ratchet and Clank seemed like they were forced to use the portal tech especially on the zip line thing that just seemed to be unnecessarily discombobulating when you land. Yeah just want I want a move that forces a perspective change during action sequences. I'm sure the tech may yield some cool results but people trying to sell this as game changing tech need to realize the need to completely switch environments on the fly is not conducive to a natural flow in most games. It also doesn't help that they picked a cartoony game wich didn't look too demanding and still needed a load area for transitions.

 

[Woo-Fu]

i didn't see a single thing the xbox could not do.

I saw a lot of things the xbox won't do.

 

[Lethal01]

UE5 was a tech demo man. Not a real game. Again - every gen this happens.

I agree - Sony should have carved out a bit of time (maybe cut out the gay furry high school trailer) and show off what the new controller and audio could do. But, there's plenty of time.

Yeah, Like I'm sure the quality of that tech demo will be far surpassed by the end of this gen but...
We are comparing it to LAUNCH TITLES, indie games and games that are in alpha and 2 years away.

 

[RayHell]

2 seconds x 2 = 4 seconds (worst case scenario). Yeah, definitely couldn't be done on XSX because 2 extra seconds is just too long to wait.

That one way to see it, the other way is how many assets/textures on screen you can load by streaming the data ? Twice as much.

 

[longdi]

PS5 replacing elevators with futuristic portal space. Sorry but Ratchet and Clank seemed like they were forced to use the portal tech especially on the zip line thing that just seemed to be unnecessarily discombobulating when you land. Yeah just want I want a move that forces a perspective change during action sequences. I'm sure the tech may yield some cool results but people trying to sell this as game changing tech need to realize the need to completely switch environments on the fly is not conducive to a natural flow in most games. It also doesn't help that they picked a cartoony game wich didn't look too demanding and still needed a load area for transitions.

As many developers have hinted, a large part of having SSD helps to decrease development resources because they no longer need to duplicate and carefully place such data in their file structure.

 

[sixamp]

I see alot of comments about R&C but in reality couldn't those rifts just act as like a doorway to the next part of a level? I get that it plays like 1 continuous level but what if at that rift there is no more level design and the next section just loads up. I'm not explain it well but I don't see how that couldn't be done on current consoles . Like opening a door and walking into a room without a loading screen. I thought the actual gameplay looked fun. The even was bleh though .

 

[Keihart]

I see alot of comments about R&C but in reality couldn't those rifts just act as like a doorway to the next part of a level? I get that it plays like 1 continuous level but what if at that rift there is no more level design and the next section just loads up. I'm not explain it well but I don't see how that couldn't be done on current consoles . Like opening a door and walking into a room without a loading screen. I thought the actual gameplay looked fun. The even was bleh though .

The point of that, it's the amount of assets for each scene. If the environment weren't as dense and varied it wouldn't be a big deal. But every area in the trailer it's completely different and dense with unique assets, winch in current gen games without an SSD would be pretty hard to pull off without working around to mask longer load times.

Think TF2 time shifting, both versions of the level have to be loaded on ram at all times, so the devs try to make the most by reusing some assets so they don't have to stream much if any from the disk.

 

[Elog]

Honestly, you guys should focus on number of textures and texture resolution shown on screen at the same time. Just look at some of the show pieces yesterday. Demon Souls, Horizon 2, R&C....the list goes on. They are not even close to what we can achieve now.

You might not like the games but just focus on the two things listed above. That is what good I/O do to you. Have we saturated the I/O of PS5 yet? Do not know. Can the XSX do the amount of textures and the texture resolution for example used in the reef scene in Horizon 2? Do not know.

 

[FranXico]

There was a noticeable pause every single time it did that world switching thing though.

Not the best way to show off this shiny new tech.

A pause of one second swapping out completely different sets of assets. So slow!

 

[Fulcizombie]

There never was. The console with the much stronger GPU&CPU , with fixed clock rates, and the better Ram will always have the big advantage, no matter how much noise Sony makes. Sony is an expert in pre-release noise, they destroyed the dreamcast with ps2 bs hype, they tried to pin the excellent xbox360 as Xbox 1.5 with their infamous E32005 (where they showed a bunch of cgi videos masquerading as gameplay), they went on a clear smear campaign against the Xbox one taking advantage of MS’ mistakes and now, having the much lower specced and extremely questionable (with the....variable clock rates) machine they went full force on the bullshit «news and opinions» (with the help of their legion of fans and gaming media) to try and make us forget everything we knew about what makes a computer, because that is what consoles are, powerful.

This ammounted to what , in their first big showing (and it was a big showing not an inside Xbox with a few AA titles) ? A spider man spin off that looks like an enhanced BC version of spider man (gears 5 on the XSX already looks better), a nice looking ratchet game, an excellent looking horizon 2 that will probably be released in 2022 and a bunch of cutscenes from a ps2 remake.

Digital foundry comparison videos will be wild.

 

[Lethal01]

I see alot of comments about R&C but in reality couldn't those rifts just act as like a doorway to the next part of a level? I get that it plays like 1 continuous level but what if at that rift there is no more level design and the next section just loads up. I'm not explain it well but I don't see how that couldn't be done on current consoles . Like opening a door and walking into a room without a loading screen. I thought the actual gameplay looked fun. The even was bleh though .

It could, but it wouldn't because it would not be fun to go through rift, wait 20 seconds to load, play for 10 seconds go through rift, wait 20 seconds to load, play for 10 seconds go through rift, wait 20 seconds to load, play for 10 seconds go through rift, wait 20 seconds to load, play for 10 seconds.

You would either need to massively cut back on the fidelity or *more likely* you just choose not to do it at all.

SSD allows things to happen not because they are literally impossible, but because to actual achieve it you need to throw away all the things that made it sound like a fun idea in the first place..

 

[carlosrox]

A pause of one second swapping out completely different sets of assets. So slow!

It's still a jarring and noticeable pop.

 

[FranXico]

It's still a jarring and noticeable pop.

How jarring! Unbearable!

 

[eastwood333]

Honestly, you guys should focus on number of textures and texture resolution shown on screen at the same time. Just look at some of the show pieces yesterday. Demon Souls, Horizon 2, R&C....the list goes on. They are not even close to what we can achieve now.

You might not like the games but just focus on the two things listed above. That is what good I/O do to you. Have we saturated the I/O of PS5 yet? Do not know. Can the XSX do the amount of textures and the texture resolution for example used in the reef scene in Horizon 2? Do not know.

1. Everything shown in the Horizon 2 trailer was cutscenes
2. Wait for Playgrounds new Fable to be shown. I think these two will be an interesting comparison

 

[Lethal01]

It's still a jarring and noticeable pop.

I literally don't know what you are talking about..
Are you talking about the going through a portal at all?

 

[polybius80]

I see alot of comments about R&C but in reality couldn't those rifts just act as like a doorway to the next part of a level? I get that it plays like 1 continuous level but what if at that rift there is no more level design and the next section just loads up. I'm not explain it well but I don't see how that couldn't be done on current consoles . Like opening a door and walking into a room without a loading screen. I thought the actual gameplay looked fun. The even was bleh though .

yes as long as you can fit all or most of that in ram and you reuse most of the assets , but you can get into space problems if you intend to use big and lot of different worlds and swtich quickly, in the video each world looked different from each other , there are games that can switch worlds(like soul reaver, ps1) or as you say opening a door and streaming the next room, but usually those games have a way to deal with it be it design, a transition because lack of speed or smaller assets, and there are compromises with it that can impact many things for example graphics, R&C doesnt look like is having compromises for the variety of the world, the assets look much more detailed than the R&C of PS4 and the ram is not that big compared to current gen so is fair to assume they dont have them all in ram and instead are streaming, uding the fast SSD in a way it look instantaneous

 

[Elog]

1. Everything shown in the Horizon 2 trailer was cutscenes
2. Wait for Playgrounds new Fable to be shown. I think these two will be an interesting comparison

Every cut-scene in Horizon 1 was in-engine. I am willing to bet the same goes for Horizon 2 even though we do not know that yet.

Assume for a second that my assumption is correct. Admit that would be mightily impressive in terms of texture resolution and texture amount?

Ps. really looking forward to Fable!

 

[Kagey K]

Every cut-scene in Horizon 1 was in-engine. I am willing to bet the same goes for Horizon 2 even though we do not know that yet.

Assume for a second that my assumption is correct. Admit that would be mightily impressive in terms of texture resolution and texture amount?

Ps. really looking forward to Fable!

If you look at it like that, then yeah it’s impressive today, depending on the games that come out between now and it’s launch it could easily seem a whole lot less impressive though.

 

[Psykodad]

Every cut-scene in Horizon 1 was in-engine. I am willing to bet the same goes for Horizon 2 even though we do not know that yet.

Assume for a second that my assumption is correct. Admit that would be mightily impressive in terms of texture resolution and texture amount?

Ps. really looking forward to Fable!

There's literally no reason to assume Horizon 2 suddenly won't use inengine cutscenes. Especially since they can get CGI-like graphics for gameplay.

 

[carlosrox]

How jarring! Unbearable!

Twas jarring, never said it was unbearable though, thanks.

 

[longdi]

Only portion of PS5 conference i found graphically good and comparable to UE5

 

[VFXVeteran]

Every cut-scene in Horizon 1 was in-engine. I am willing to bet the same goes for Horizon 2 even though we do not know that yet.

Assume for a second that my assumption is correct. Admit that would be mightily impressive in terms of texture resolution and texture amount?

Ps. really looking forward to Fable!

Doesn't matter if it's in-engine. We don't use those as metrics for how a game looks. It's the gameplay that we see 99% of the time and it's more indicative of what the hardware can do in a real-time setting (i.e. with full user control).

 

[VFXVeteran]

Only portion of PS5 conference i found graphically good and comparable to UE5

How can that be compared to UE5 when UE5 was actual gameplay and HZD2 was all cutscene? Cutscene will always look better than gameplay.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

No way the Series X is doing Ratchet & Clank's dimension portals. We'll have to see more gameplay to tell about the other games. For example I can pretty much guarantee you that you'll be able to ride flying dinosaurs in Horizon at a speed that wouldn't be possible on the Series X, and the world density in Spider-Man will likely be more than the Series X could handle.

They could just transition to an area of a bit less taxing geometry on the XSex, and after a couple of frames of loading you would have full fidelity.

Barely noticable.

People tend to forget that the xsex SSD is extremely fast as well.

 

[Elog]

Doesn't matter if it's in-engine. We don't use those as metrics for how a game looks. It's the gameplay that we see 99% of the time and it's more indicative of what the hardware can do in a real-time setting (i.e. with full user control)

I agree. Point is that in Horizon there was a one to one between the two. As I wrote - I am making the assumption that what they do in Horizon 2 is the same. And yes - I am aware that is an assumption.

Edit: Spelling.

 

[Moonjt9]

As others have said, Ratchet would probably be impossible on anything but ps5.

I think another good showcase was actually Kena, when she transformed the land instantly to greenery. That’s like a whole new environment being instantly there!

 

[Radical Dreamer]

How can that be compared to UE5 when UE5 was actual gameplay and HZD2 was all cutscene? Cutscene will always look better than gameplay.

anything that impressed you particularly from the showing?

 

[longdi]

How can that be compared to UE5 when UE5 was actual gameplay and HZD2 was all cutscene? Cutscene will always look better than gameplay.

Well just thinking purely from graphics look, but imo the swimming portion will be controllable gameplay.

Do you think why games running on PS5 seems underwhelming thus far, is because they are still built on some legacy renderer?

Like even Decima is not yet updated to reyes and whatnot?

Was hoping to see better lighting and micropolygons and 4K photo textures.

There is Stray which looks quite good for a indie title? Who arent held back by a legacy renderer ?

 

[polybius80]

Doesn't matter if it's in-engine. We don't use those as metrics for how a game looks. It's the gameplay that we see 99% of the time and it's more indicative of what the hardware can do in a real-time setting (i.e. with full user control).

in engine cut scenes are used in graphic comparisons too, they require textures and geometry they are not full motion video, sure you can cut some things with the fixed camera and use better models here and there but they generally speaking dont differ that much from what gameplay graphic can achieve

 

[Peebs]

Talk about a reallly, I mean *really* premature topic. Going off trailers to make this observation (with such a decisive tone BTW) just wouldn’t be accurate - we’ll need to play the actual game or have some in-depth analysis before we can have an informed opinion.

 

[Kagey K]

As others have said, Ratchet would probably be impossible on anything but ps5.

I think another good showcase was actually Kena, when she transformed the land instantly to greenery. That’s like a whole new environment being instantly there!

There is a very high probability that that statement will be shown as false.

Though not with R&C since it’s exclusive, but don’t doubt the Series X is capable of doing that.

A 1st or 3rd party will prove that.

 

[Kumomeme]

There is a very high probability that that statement will be shown as false.

Though not with R&C since it’s exclusive, but don’t doubt the Series X is capable of doing that.

A 1st or 3rd party will prove that.

yes..only question is, the speed differences which is once the portal opened, how many second differences before jump into it

 

[Kagey K]

yes..only question is, the speed differences which is once the portal opened, how many second differences

We will have to wait for a game to answer that question.

Until then....

 

[phil_t98]

There was a noticeable pause every single time it did that world switching thing though.

Not the best way to show off this shiny new tech.

yeah I think by how much they hyped no loading screens to see that was disappointing, the portal screen was defiantly a loading screen even if it was only a second or two long

 

[DoctaThompson]

Are people really going to have arguments over seconds/milliseconds of load times, instead of graphics or framerate, like people have been doing for ages? I don't think even 10% of the people excited for next gen games had expectations of loading levels, almost instantaneous. Most would want higher resolution, higher framerate, or both. Followed by more of x,y,z type of game, etc, etc.

In essence, let's not make jumping through portals the defacto benchmark of games this generation. There are objectively better ways to compare the hardware.

 

[Kagey K]

Are people really going to have arguments over seconds/milliseconds of load times, instead of graphics or framerate, like people have been doing for ages? I don't think even 10% of the people excited for next gen games had expectations of loading levels, almost instantaneous. Most would want higher resolution, higher framerate, or both. Followed by more of x,y,z type of game, etc, etc.

In essence, let's not make jumping through portals the defacto benchmark of games this generation. There are objectively better ways to compare the hardware.

Portal jumping is about to become the new light bloom, or open world. Every time tech advances they abuse it until ppl are sick of it.

Every game is going to be Far Cry 3 insanity missions combined with real world flashes.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Depends on compression and efficiency (texture selection). If you transport only what you need you can actually transport alot more or higher fidelity.

Good thing consoles have been doing that since PS2 or before in a form or the other then .

 

[eastwood333]

Are people really going to have arguments over seconds/milliseconds of load times, instead of graphics or framerate, like people have been doing for ages? I don't think even 10% of the people excited for next gen games had expectations of loading levels, almost instantaneous. Most would want higher resolution, higher framerate, or both. Followed by more of x,y,z type of game, etc, etc.

In essence, let's not make jumping through portals the defacto benchmark of games this generation. There are objectively better ways to compare the hardware.

But that's the only adventage PS5 has so they gotta run with it