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[Panajev2001a]

But that's the only adventage PS5 has so they gotta run with it

Sure... no hint of jealousy and not hurt one bit by having a moderate advantage in GPU FLOPS and the systems being neck and neck with each having some advantage and not the BeAsTTTtT!!!!! you though you would get... but keep milking everything in the XSX specs sheet while joking about PS5 fanboys and their SSD .

 

[polybius80]

Are people really going to have arguments over seconds/milliseconds of load times, instead of graphics or framerate, like people have been doing for ages? I don't think even 10% of the people excited for next gen games had expectations of loading levels, almost instantaneous. Most would want higher resolution, higher framerate, or both. Followed by more of x,y,z type of game, etc, etc.

In essence, let's not make jumping through portals the defacto benchmark of games this generation. There are objectively better ways to compare the hardware.

nobody said its the defacto benchmark or that there are not other ways to compare games and what they do, it happens the thread is about the SSD and you are complaining that the SSD and its capabilities are being discussed and compared in a thread about the SSD, why dont you go to a pokemon forum and complain they dont talk enough about digimon?

 

[Kagey K]

But that's the only adventage PS5 has so they gotta run with it

I’m not even sure the loading times are going to be big anymore.

The SSD magic might have sailed already.

 

[Leyasu]

No the issue is the fast loading is part of the gameplay. You can't add 2 extra seconds per dimension portal and still have seamless gameplay like this.

If you have a point to make then make it because you are making even less sense than the guy I replied to who was straight out lying.

Let me help you out with this SIMPLE logic. If thing A can just do something using all of its resources, then thing B can't do that same thing if it has fewer resources than thing A. Come at me bro if you think there is some flaw in that logic.

Don’t be silly. This would have no impact what so ever

 

[Boxman]

Ratchet & Clank looked insane when they were going through portals. Those load times are near instant, which is to be expected if they can fill 16gb of their Ram in under 2 seconds. That's very impressive considering we got loading screens these past 4 generations of PlayStation.

 

[longdi]

Sure... no hint of jealousy and not hurt one bit by having a moderate advantage in GPU FLOPS and the systems being neck and neck with each having some advantage and not the BeAsTTTtT!!!!! you though you would get... but keep milking everything in the XSX specs sheet while joking about PS5 fanboys and their SSD .

What do you think of the games shown so far? Did they meet your tech expectations?

Imo as i said, HZD underwater portion looks good and the Stray indie game too. RC loading 'window' kinda surprising to me.

 

[GymWolf]

You are not gonna see the ssd used at his full power with launch games.

This thing was not even real when people started developing games for ps5 2-3 years ago.

Ratchet was a good example of switching different location on the fly but it looked more like a gimmick than a groundbreaking new gameplay mechanic tbh.

 

[Panajev2001a]

What do you think of the games shown so far? Did they meet your tech expectations?

Imo as i said, HZD underwater portion looks good and the Stray indie game too. RC loading 'window' kinda surprising to me.

I have to say that some looked really good (GT7, HZ, R&C, Demon’s Souls, and Spider-Man looked great for early titles) others were not as impressive but there was a huge amount of titles captured on real HW...

If I get a lot more games than before and there is a greater variety in the games offering possible thanks to the greater specs or thanks to an easier to develop for HW then it is a good use of power too albeit nobody would generally use it to win a power argument although it is a very narrow minded thing.
If a developer spends less time optimising memory usage and disc accessing patterns and disc layout, etc... and makes a game in a year instead of 2 and I get a lot more games even if some are less impressive as they use the HW capabilities to speed up game development and design and not to drive insane visuals.. isn’t that a good thing too?

HW prowess can mean either incredible looking experiences or easier game development and this more games, what upsets me is sometimes audiences are so unsympathetic to the latter.

I did not expect all these games running on real HW and seeing so many games being seemingly ready for launch or just about.
I think Sony delayed their event for a month or more to make it a point of not showing games running on high specced PC’s with “in-engine” simulations of what the game should look like on consoles (what people used to call bullshots).

Now, are you going to give them credit for showing games running on real PS5 console HW or they should have sold you a better looking dream by faking it on bigger and more powerful PC? Did they do right by gamers taking the risk of looking less impressive because of this?

 

[phil_t98]

You are not gonna see the ssd used at his full power with launch games.

This thing was not even real when people started developing games for ps5 2-3 years ago.

Ratchet was a good example of switching different location on the fly but it looked more like a gimmick than a groundbreaking new gameplay mechanic tbh.

But sony first party should know how to use it surely. They were the ones who designed it and they should be the ones who know how to code for it

 

[Kagey K]

But sony first party should know how to use it surely. They were the ones who designed it and they should be the ones who know how to code for it

Shhhh

Stop using logic.....

 

[polybius80]

But sony first party should know how to use it surely. They were the ones who designed it and they should be the ones who know how to code for it

just because certain tech is used by first party doesnt mean it wont be better used in the future or they can use it at it full potential right away, devs experiment with techniques but they also have a game to make so they cannot test everything, there are things they will learn how to improve and use in more creative ways, you can see this in every console generation how newer games exploit a system better than past games

 

[phil_t98]

just because certain tech is used by first party doesnt mean it wont be better used in the future or they can use it at it full potential right away, devs experiment with techniques but they also have a game to make so they cannot test everything, there are things they will learn how to improve and use in more creative ways, you can see this in every console generation how newer games exploit a system better than past games

But the ones who were meant to be shopping of the tech the best were first party studios, if you read Gaf everybody has been hyping it up how good first party games will look with the power of the SSD. dont get me wrong Rachet and Clank looked amazing but there was defiantly a loading element to the portal and a slight pause straight after it

 

[ToadMan]

Not hard when MS hasn't even show any 1st party games or had their main E3 event in July.

And I disagree. RE8(a multiplat) looks better from a graphical, technical point of view

There never was. The console with the much stronger GPU&CPU , with fixed clock rates, and the better Ram will always have the big advantage, no matter how much noise Sony makes. Sony is an expert in pre-release noise, they destroyed the dreamcast with ps2 bs hype, they tried to pin the excellent xbox360 as Xbox 1.5 with their infamous E32005 (where they showed a bunch of cgi videos masquerading as gameplay), they went on a clear smear campaign against the Xbox one taking advantage of MS’ mistakes and now, having the much lower specced and extremely questionable (with the....variable clock rates) machine they went full force on the bullshit «news and opinions» (with the help of their legion of fans and gaming media) to try and make us forget everything we knew about what makes a computer, because that is what consoles are, powerful.

This ammounted to what , in their first big showing (and it was a big showing not an inside Xbox with a few AA titles) ? A spider man spin off that looks like an enhanced BC version of spider man (gears 5 on the XSX already looks better), a nice looking ratchet game, an excellent looking horizon 2 that will probably be released in 2022 and a bunch of cutscenes from a ps2 remake.

Digital foundry comparison videos will be wild.

Aw poor MS with their huge market cap and money and marketing... Is big bad Sony picking on you....?

Come on man - a few weeks ago ms had their Xsex game play reveal with no gameplay, no 1st party exclusives and none of it running on Xsex.

Whatever next? Blame Sony for MS chopping their first party and having no games?

MS failures in the gaming sector are all made by MS, no one else.

 

[Kagey K]

just because certain tech is used by first party doesnt mean it wont be better used in the future or they can use it at it full potential right away, devs experiment with techniques but they also have a game to make so they cannot test everything, there are things they will learn how to improve and use in more creative ways, you can see this in every console generation how newer games exploit a system better than past games

Maybe it’s in the hidden power brick fan.

Did anyone look there?

 

[DoctaThompson]

But sony first party should know how to use it surely. They were the ones who designed it and they should be the ones who know how to code for it

How else you think they'll sell a mid cycle refresh? "Our ultra super fast SSD on the Ps5 Pro will allow instantaneous loading! Absolutely magical!"

*Cerny breaks out into the robot dance, and the lights go dim as he's yeeted off stage in a hurry by Sony staff members, trying to save face*

Only to be here back again on GAF with everyone falling for the same hype 4 years from now.

 

[Kagey K]

Aw poor MS with their huge market cap and money and marketing... Is big bad Sony picking on you....?

Come on man - a few weeks ago ms had their Xsex game play reveal with no gameplay, no 1st party exclusives and none of it running on Xsex.

Whatever next? Blame Sony for MS chopping their first party and having no games?

MS failures in the gaming sector are all made by MS, no one else.

After seeing tonight’s videos, what if it was gameplay and you couldn’t recognize it?

That was easily in game footage.

 

[phil_t98]

How else you think they'll sell a mid cycle refresh? "Our ultra super fast SSD on the Ps5 Pro will allow instantaneous loading! Absolutely magical!"

*Cerny breaks out into the robot dance, and the lights go dim as he's yeeted off stage in a hurry by Sony staff members, trying to save face*

Only to be here back again on GAF with everyone falling for the same hype 4 years from now.

I also think it goes to show the Spider-Man video from a while back looks like it was a portion of the game and not the full game running, somebody else even pointed out there was no Spider-Man in that video either

 

[longdi]

I have to say that some looked really good (GT7, HZ, R&C, Demon’s Souls, and Spider-Man looked great for early titles) others were not as impressive but there was a huge amount of titles captured on real HW...

If I get a lot more games than before and there is a greater variety in the games offering possible thanks to the greater specs or thanks to an easier to develop for HW then it is a good use of power too albeit nobody would generally use it to win a power argument although it is a very narrow minded thing.
If a developer spends less time optimising memory usage and disc accessing patterns and disc layout, etc... and makes a game in a year instead of 2 and I get a lot more games even if some are less impressive as they use the HW capabilities to speed up game development and design and not to drive insane visuals.. isn’t that a good thing too?

HW prowess can mean either incredible looking experiences or easier game development and this more games, what upsets me is sometimes audiences are so unsympathetic to the latter.

I did not expect all these games running on real HW and seeing so many games being seemingly ready for launch or just about.
I think Sony delayed their event for a month or more to make it a point of not showing games running on high specced PC’s with “in-engine” simulations of what the game should look like on consoles (what people used to call bullshots).

Now, are you going to give them credit for showing games running on real PS5 console HW or they should have sold you a better looking dream by faking it on bigger and more powerful PC? Did they do right by gamers taking the risk of looking less impressive because of this?

Credit in terms of marketing, sure.

But not all games run on PS5 hw, i wish they would put those 'in-engine' disclaimer like Square did to separate real portion and in-engine portion. Bethedsa ones were probably bullshot

I agree about making development easier, i think thats the real juicy part of the SSDs, rather than some crazy unseen before gameplay innvoation

 

[Kagey K]

I also think it goes to show the Spider-Man video from a while back looks like it was a portion of the game and not the full game running, somebody else even pointed out there was no Spider-Man in that video either

Yep,I’m willing to bet it’s a small chunk of the Spider-Man game reworked with different villains and enemies and upscaled.

I still think there might be a PS4 version based on what they showed today, but I have no proof yet.

 

[Shodan09]

There will always be a trade off. Series x could maybe do this and take a second or so longer but at the same time the game itself would look better and have more going on possibly at a higher resolution or frame rate too.

 

[PropellerEar]

But that's the only adventage PS5 has so they gotta run with it

Biggest advantage for PS5 will be all the GOTY's and GOTG's PlayStation Studios will deliver.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Wow! Have you been to the future and saw comparisons of multiplat next-gen titles to be sure there is no real difference when it comes to SSD between xsx and ps5?
AMAZING! I'm so jealous!

 

[GymWolf]

But sony first party should know how to use it surely. They were the ones who designed it and they should be the ones who know how to code for it

Yes of course but not when you materially don't have the thing in your hand when you start creating the core of the game.

And i'm almost sure that this particular ssd was not even a thing when most games for ps5 started being created.

I don't wanna defend sony, i was underwhelmed by the secret sauce like everyone else, i'm just trying to understand the reason.

If after 2-3 years of ps5 we are not gonna see this generational ssd leap then we will know that this ssd sauce was only talk and bullshit, for now is a little bit early to draw a conclusion.

 

[polybius80]

But the ones who were meant to be shopping of the tech the best were first party studios, if you read Gaf everybody has been hyping it up how good first party games will look with the power of the SSD. dont get me wrong Rachet and Clank looked amazing but there was defiantly a loading element to the portal and a slight pause straight after it

sorry but I dont know what everybody in GAF says or hype about, I am talking about game development in general, I think you are misunderstanding the advantages of first party and why they have an advantage in first place, a first party developer typically will use a system better because they dont have to target other systems so they have more time to test and improve the way they make their games and can design games based in what they experiment they also share their knowledge for new devkits so every third party improves too, it doesnt mean that only them know everything about how to use a system eficiently, third party devs also make and share improvements themselves, even if they are specific of one platform

 

[Kagey K]

Biggest advantage for PS5 will be all the GOTY's and GOTG's PlayStation Studios will deliver.

After today...




Maybe, maybe not.

Only time will tell.

 

[polybius80]

Maybe it’s in the hidden power brick fan.

Did anyone look there?

maybe you should try to make better and more productive comments, its not bad to make jokes here and there but if you only make jokes people will start believing you are clown and your arguments just another joke

 

[Kagey K]

maybe you should try to make better and more productive comments, its not bad to make jokes here and there but if you only make jokes people will start believing you are clown and your arguments just another joke

That’s fine with me.

Im only clowning the fools that thought the SSD was some magical trip. If that offends you, well you know.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Credit in terms of marketing, sure.

But not all games run on PS5 hw, i wish they would put those 'in-engine' disclaimer like Square did to separate real portion and in-engine portion. Bethedsa ones were probably bullshot

I agree about making development easier, i think thats the real juicy part of the SSDs, rather than some crazy unseen before gameplay innvoation

I would give them credit period, no need to qualify it further than that.

Even the in Engine stuff seemed PS5 HW captured I think anyways. At least there was a lot of footage with the “captured on PS5 HW” on it at least.

 

[phil_t98]

Yes of course but not when you materially don't have the thing in your hand when you start creating the core of the game.

And i'm almost sure that this particular ssd was not even a thing when most games for ps5 started being created.

I don't wanna defend sony, i was underwhelmed by the secret sauce like everyone else, i'm just trying to understand the reason.

If after 2-3 years of ps5 we are not gonna see this generational ssd leap then we will know that this ssd sauce was only talk and bullshit, for now is a little bit early to draw a conclusion.

But again first party will have had access to this long befor everybody else, i mean how long we been looking at the dev kit on here? Nearly a year?
they will also have access to the best ways to optimise the code to run with the SSD. I wanna state nothing looked terrible at all and Rachet and Clank looked the best for me

 

[phil_t98]

sorry but I dont know what everybody in GAF says or hype about, I am talking about game development in general, I think you are misunderstanding the advantages of first party and why they have an advantage in first place, a first party developer typically will use a system better because they dont have to target other systems so they have more time to test and improve the way they make their games and can design games based in what they experiment they also share their knowledge for new devkits so every third party improves too, it doesnt mean that only them know everything about how to use a system eficiently, third party devs also make and share improvements themselves, even if they are specific of one platform

But doesn’t first party have access to the design team of the PS5 and have them help how to code the game to utilise the system better than anybody else.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

Solid showing by Sony. Nothing bad, nothing earth shattering either. Just solid. Honestly I'm more excited for Halo Infinite and Hellblade 2 both which looked more interesting. Just saw 2 second loading times for NBA2K21 reported. That's exciting. Kena looks amazing. Might get a PS5 for that.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

How did this reach 7 pages?

 

[GymWolf]

But again first party will have had access to this long befor everybody else, i mean how long we been looking at the dev kit on here? Nearly a year?
they will also have access to the best ways to optimise the code to run with the SSD. I wanna state nothing looked terrible at all and Rachet and Clank looked the best for me

We don't know when the exact same ssd inside ps5 was physically available for developers to code with it in mind.

I don't know if devs can change the core of the game when they already started the development 1-2 years before that thing was even created, it is a fairly new piece of hardware.

 

[polybius80]

I also think it goes to show the Spider-Man video from a while back looks like it was a portion of the game and not the full game running, somebody else even pointed out there was no Spider-Man in that video either

And here’s what Wired wrote about it: “Spidey stands in a small plaza. Cerny presses a button on the controller, initiating a fast-travel interstitial screen. When Spidey reappears in a totally different spot in Manhattan, 15 seconds have elapsed. Then Cerny does the same thing on a next-gen devkit connected to a different TV. (The devkit, an early ‘low-speed’ version, is concealed in a big silver tower, with no visible componentry.) What took 15 seconds now takes less than one: 0.8 seconds, to be exact.”

Remember That PS5 Spider-Man Tech Demo? That Was Running on an Early, Low-Speed Devkit

Marvelous

www.pushsquare.com

 

[PropellerEar]

After today...




Maybe, maybe not.

Only time will tell.

Speaking of today:

 

[phil_t98]

We don't know when the exact same ssd inside ps5 was physically available for developers to code with it in mind.

I don't know if devs can change the core of the game when they already started the development 1-2 years before that thing was even created, it is a fairly new piece of hardware.

The PS5 dev kit has been shared on here nearly a year ago, its not like they haven’t had access to the Dev Kits (first party of coarse) and also they will have had access to the design team of PS5 to help them utilise it more. Devs can change code when ever they like, remember these games are built from the ground up to be PS5 exclusives. I liked what i seen in the trailers but was a bit underwhelmed to

 

[Kagey K]

Speaking of today:

Ohh is that a PS5 game?

SSD doing work.

 

[Yoshi]

A good rule of thumb is, if someone calls something a secret sauce, or uses a bunch of buzzwords from a marketing talk without any hint of understanding of the terms, then it's just unfounded bs. Still, the SSD is an obvious advantage, but it does, what a mass storage does. It does not do what a GPU does.

 

[polybius80]

But doesn’t first party have access to the design team of the PS5 and have them help how to code the game to utilise the system better than anybody else.

just because you can have access first to something doesn't make you an expert and allow you to try every possible and better use, by that logic the people that make hammers can use them better than any carpenter

the design team of Ps5 can tell you how things work and best practices of hardware but it doesnt mean they are experts in what you are trying to do in your own game

 

[GymWolf]

The PS5 dev kit has been shared on here nearly a year ago, its not like they haven’t had access to the Dev Kits (first party of coarse) and also they will have had access to the design team of PS5 to help them utilise it more. Devs can change code when ever they like, remember these games are built from the ground up to be PS5 exclusives. I liked what i seen in the trailers but was a bit underwhelmed to

Yes, one year ago, if you consider that guerrilla started making horizon 2 more than 3 years ago it is exactly like i said, they didn't have the definitive ps5 hardware when they started making the game and devs don't decide the scope and level design of their game during year 4 but during the first meetings they have.

Yesterday there was probably not even one single game who was created since the first day of development with the exact same ssd inside ps5.

But like i said, i don't wanna defend sony, it's their job showing this ssd sauce and they didn't deliver that much for now.

 

[martino]

i will wait to see gameplay (at least 5 minute of it with hud, move that look like player input, etc....) on both before drawing any conclusions

 

[phil_t98]

just because you can have access first to something doesn't make you an expert and allow you to try every possible and better use, by that logic the people that make hammers can use them better than any carpenter

So your telling me the people who Designed the ps5 dont know how to use it or optimise code for it?

 

[phil_t98]

Yes, one year ago, if you consider that guerrilla started making horizon 2 more than 3 years ago it is exactly like i said, they didn't have the definitive ps5 hardware when they started making the game and devs don't decide the scope and level design of their game during year 4 but during the first meetings they have.

Yesterday there was probably not even one single game who was created since the first day of development with the exact same ssd inside ps5.

But like i said, i don't wanna defend sony, it's their job showing this ssd sauce and they didn't deliver that much for now.

As i said Rachet and Clank was the highlight for me but you could tell there were loading screens and there was a pause straight after that as well. Am excited to see how games get better and see if there looks to be a difference with xbox

 

[polybius80]

So your telling me the people who Designed the ps5 dont know how to use it or optimise code for it?

you are mixing things, one thing is the hardware and how it works and its specifics and another is your game and what it tries to do and how it uses the hardware to do certain things

what is there to optimize depend what you are trying to do in your game, the maker of the console will provide you with examplesa and documentation they are not going to do your homework

 

[ToadMan]

After seeing tonight’s videos, what if it was gameplay and you couldn’t recognize it?

That was easily in game footage.

Because every video in that MS reveal said “representative of xsex gameplay”

and Sony’s video said “Everything from now on is running on a PS5 console”.

As it stands - no one knows what an Xsex game will look like, nevermind gameplay.

 

[PropellerEar]

Ohh is that a PS5 game?

What kind of goalie are you?

 

[Kagey K]

Because every video in that MS reveal said “representative of xsex gameplay”

and Sony’s video said “Everything from now on is running on a PS5 console”.

As it stands - no one knows what an Xsex game will look like, nevermind gameplay.

It said captured on a PS5, it never said it was running on it. Don’t make shit up.

They could have plugged a PC in and recorded it on the PS5 to make it true.

Think about what they say, not what you think.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

It said captured on a PS5, it never said it was running on it. Don’t make shit up.

They could have plugged a PC in and recorded it on the PS5 to make it true.

Think about what they say, not what you think.

These are some nifty conspiracy theories.

 

[ToadMan]

As i said Rachet and Clank was the highlight for me but you could tell there were loading screens and there was a pause straight after that as well. Am excited to see how games get better and see if there looks to be a difference with xbox

Sony aren‘t defying the laws of physics. Of course if you’re changing everything the player can see on the fly, there is the finite time it takes to load. The fact PS5 can stream from the SSD, into VRAM, through the gpu and onto the screen in “real-time” Is incredible.

The sheer amount of geometry, detail and texture fidelity despite jumping at those speeds isn’t something a PS4 console could do without heavy compromises.

That’s what the removal of bottlenecks will get for developers and in a sense ratchet is a “worst case” example.

Other games can and will hide those loading moments out of the player view.

 

[Kagey K]

These are some nifty conspiracy theories.

Prove them untrue then, should be easy.

Or is wording everything?