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[Hawke502]

So lets gloss over the fact that this is all fiction, and focus on very specific physical character traits regarding 2 of the female characters. We will have one thread about how Dinas tits are too small, and another thread talking about how Abbys arms are too big. Naughty Dog will have to patch it out then!

lmao, yeah, you are just twisting the argument now. People making fun of Abby's character model is not because its ugly, its because its unrealistic. Having small tits is not the same.

What is sarcasm? "I searched for a thread looking for the same people asking why Lara Croft wasn't jacked in the Tomb Raider games but I could only find one talking about a mod to take her clothes off?"

i dont even understand your point here.

The point is that if people could overlook a supposed infiltration unit looking like peak-mass Arnold without commenting on how it breaks the internal logic of the story, I think we can give Abby a pass.

Seriously, reread your post: You are telling me that a female character being into bodybuilding is
The deal-breaker in a game about fungus zombies?

Are you fucking high?

So you just assumed i care about Terminator? I don't. And the fungus in the game is actually a real fungus, called Cordyceps, according to the lore of the game the fungus mutated and started to affect humans, even this they tried to ground it on reality.

 

[Soodanim]

Even given that Twittertwit’s example, are we to pretend that Abby’s “inspiration” isn’t completely unnatural and enhanced by hormones, HGH or some other biochemical-cocktail? That’s not the body of a “natural” builder, or even of an extreme crossfitter. I have more than a few female competitors in my circle of friends and I can say with reasonable confidence that isn’t a body that’s naturally made.

So where is Abby getting her roids in a post-apocalyptic world?

If I were to guess, I’d say they learned of her and thought “That’s a good base” but couldn’t do more than the gym to convey it being possible.

I suppose its only a problem if (because?) the story/game is supposed to be realistic. But is it? It’s the same world as Uncharted, right? I don’t know the answer.

 

[Bragr]

I’ve been lifting weights for years. As I said, I’m not Mr. Universe but I’ve seen muscular women on the regular. Abby was modeled off someone that for sure is on the juice. It’s not that her body is impossible, but it’s impossible naturally in the post-apocalypse. Nobody else is as muscular as her, including the men. Some of the men are physically bigger, but that’s biology.

I can't fathom why everyone seems to think it's some sort of male muscle shaming fetish going on in TLOU 2. That the model for Abby juices doesn't mean Abby does, they clearly removed some definition and added some fat percentage, which is more realistic.

Saying it's not possible to look like Abby without steroids is completely false. This is examples of kids who started training when they were 13-14, they are 15-16 in the pictures. How can anyone possibly say they couldn't look like Abby in 8 years, EASILY. Hell, they could be bigger than Abby when they are 18. There are many completely natural strong-looking girls out there and it's not too hard to find them.

 

[petran79]

Those furious at the fate of Joel and ellie:

-They are fictional characters, grow up

Those criticising the design of those fictional chararacters:

- you risk being ousted from the industry.

 

[CAB_Life]

If I were to guess, I’d say they learned of her and thought “That’s a good base” but couldn’t do more than the gym to convey it being possible.

I suppose its only a problem if (because?) the story/game is supposed to be realistic. But is it? It’s the same world as Uncharted, right? I don’t know the answer.

Honestly, had they shown her juicing—paranoid and Gollumish about her slowly depleting “stash”, which she needs to finish her revenge—it would’ve added more credibility and perhaps empathy to the character as a whole. Would’ve explained her insane temperament and rage too.

 

[Bragr]

So you just assumed i care about Terminator? I don't. And the fungus in the game is actually a real fungus, called Cordyceps, according to the lore of the game the fungus mutated and started to affect humans, even this they tried to ground it on reality.

Are you saying the giant rat king creature in the basement of the hospital is more grounded in reality than a girl with muscles?

 

[CAB_Life]

I can't fathom why everyone seems to think it's some sort of male muscle shaming fetish going on in TLOU 2. That the model for Abby juices doesn't mean Abby does, they clearly removed some definition and added some fat percentage, which is more realistic.

Saying it's not possible to look like Abby without steroids is completely false. This is examples of kids who started training when they were 13-14, they are 15-16 in the pictures. How can anyone possibly say they couldn't look like Abby in 8 years, EASILY. Hell, they could be bigger than Abby when they are 18. There are many completely natural strong-looking girls out there and it's not too hard to find them.

I mean you realize that some these kids could be, and quite likely are, on some kind of low grade steroid like Anavar or Oxandryn. Some of these are available without prescription and all are very easy to acquire online or elsewhere.

Current competition standards are “natural bodybuilding” and then everything else. Unless they’re explicitly clean and regularly tested athletes you can err on the side of caution and assume some degree of juicing.

 

[Bragr]

I mean you realize that all these kids could, and quite likely are, on some kind of low grade steroid like Anavar or Oxandryn. Some of these are available without prescription and all are very easy to acquire online or elsewhere.

Current competition standards are “natural bodybuilding” and then everything else. Unless they’re explicitly clean and regularly tested athletes you can err on the side of caution and assume some degree of juicing.

That's ridiculous, I think the first is a wrestler, and there are tons of girls looking like her at wrestling gyms, I know some myself. I can find 100 pictures of kids looking this strong, are you gonna say all of them are on low-grade steroids? at some point, you guys have to give up trying to argue that women can never gain muscles and that all of them are on steroids.

 

[GreyHorace]

Yeah and It's legit embarrassing that people are genuinely this upset cause some people are taking the piss cause a girl has muscles in a videogame.
When people laugh at gamers it's people like you they point to.

Dude, people are not obligated to worship at the feet of Naughty Dog and are perfectly entitled to make fun of their shitty character designs.
If you disagree then that's fine.
Just agree to disagree and move on,

Dunno why EVERY fucking criticism of this game ends with the critic being misrepresented as "angry" or "upset" or "outraged".
Just accept that some people don't see the game the same way you do and move on.


"Oh wow I can't wait to play the Last of Us 2, from my favorite developer Naughty Dog, on my beloved Playstation, it has 96 on Metacritic don't ya know?"
"LOL. The main character looks like a roided up WWE wrestler. You sure that's not a dude?"
"Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Gamers are trash! Reeeeeeeeeeee! This is the Schindler's List of videogames but gamers are mad about strong woman LOL SAD ANGRY GAMERS LOL"

Yep. That's why I hate SJWs. They want to do away with discourse and instead win every argument by claiming their opponents are bigoted, sexist and stupid. Screw the legitimate complaints regarding The Last of Us 2. It's the Schindler's List of videogames according to the woke 'game journalists'! REEEE!!!!

All the while we ignore the issue that said 'game journalists' may have been coerced by Sony to give the game rave reviews in an effort to stem the backlash. Fuck regular gamers being screwed over by both the publishers and the 'games media', just like what happened in 2012 with Mass Effect 3. Who cares about that? Gamers hated the stronk wahman! REEEEE!!!!

I have my reasons for disliking The Last of Us 2. From the abysmal story, the unsympathetic characters, the horrible pacing, the repetitive combat and probably one of the worst endings in videogames I've seen. But go ahead and label me an alt-right bigot for having an opinion. I really don't care.

 

[Jon Neu]

I still think there wouldnt be half as much backlash over how Abby looks if they had shown a short scene ealry on where she's weight training crazily with wide eys, then the camera pans over to a picture of Joel in front of her, or a pic of her father or soemthing, then pans back to Abby crazily focusing on the picture while sweat drips off her as she's training so hard. Something like that, so it suggest she's that focused and detirmined for revenge. But no we get none of that, and instead get this ridiculous looking woman moping around, with a 'bulldog chewing a wasp' face constantly.

Or, you know, she could be muscular but like a woman muscular that isn’t on roids.

The first trailer of the game had a much less muscular Abby. So at first she was going to be a much more believable female body instead of the Rambolina she ended being

 

[Hawke502]

That's ridiculous, I think the first is a wrestler, and there are tons of girls looking like her at wrestling gyms, I know some myself. I can find 100 pictures of kids looking this strong, are you gonna say all of them are on low-grade steroids? at some point, you guys have to give up trying to argue that women can never gain muscles and that all of them are on steroids.

Yeah, thats precisely what we're arguing about.

 

[CAB_Life]

That's ridiculous, I think the first is a wrestler, and there are tons of girls looking like her at wrestling gyms, I know some myself. I can find 100 pictures of kids looking this strong, are you gonna say all of them are on low-grade steroids? at some point, you guys have to give up trying to argue that women can never gain muscles and that all of them are on steroids.

You quoted me right before my edit to say “some”. No one is arguing that women can’t build muscle, just that in particular abundance it’s usually in the presence of drugs.

 

[Jon Neu]

I can't fathom why everyone seems to think it's some sort of male muscle shaming fetish going on in TLOU 2. That the model for Abby juices doesn't mean Abby does, they clearly removed some definition and added some fat percentage, which is more realistic.

Saying it's not possible to look like Abby without steroids is completely false. This is examples of kids who started training when they were 13-14, they are 15-16 in the pictures. How can anyone possibly say they couldn't look like Abby in 8 years, EASILY. Hell, they could be bigger than Abby when they are 18. There are many completely natural strong-looking girls out there and it's not too hard to find them.

You realize none of them are nowhere near Abby level?

 

[Bragr]

You quoted me right before my edit to say “some”. No one is arguing that women can’t build muscle, just that in particular abundance it’s usually in the presence of drugs.

Usually is the important word here, Abby might be big, but if you pick a million women you will have hundreds who can look like her potentially. Even in an apocalypse without steroids or whatever lol. It just gets weird to see all these guys flip over backwards at the sight of a strong chick. Some people are more upset over this than the coronavirus.

 

[Clear]

This is a dishonest argument. The entire world of TLOU is inspired on reality, even if it's a very raw one. The biggest leap in logic and where they took artis only bit of artistic liberty to make the game happen was having the cordiceps virus infect humans and make it very potent, but that's mostly it.

This isn't a sci Fi or fantasy title where everything goes, and even those games have internal logic that the good ones try to respect. Titenator just sticks out as a sore thumb in this world.

No its not dishonest. Women bodybuilders are real. Cordyceps turning people into fungus monsters is pure fantasy.

Is Dr Frankenstein bringing the dead back to life in a thunderstorm "inspired by reality" because you can use electricity to cause a cadaver's muscle tissue to contract or twitch? No its a fantasy scenario with scientific stage-dressing allowing exploration of the core theme of what would happen were a man be able to bring the dead back to life.

Don't be obtuse. There are far bigger lapses in logic and realism in pretty much every piece of fantasy/horror fiction ever created than Abby having the physique of a cross-fit athlete.

TLOU not a SF or Fantasy title... /facepalm

 

[Johnny Silver]

This I can agree with, at end of the day its Devs choice how they want to design their characters.

I mean Emma in Sekiro has no obvious muscle and yet....

She's gracious in physical appearance, movements and spiritually.

That's the difference between a "strong" female character made by a Japanese studio and the deconstructive, man-like, anti-feminine abominations made by western sjw, neo-marxist,studios such as Naughty Dog.

 

[Jack Videogames]

This discussion would have been avoided with a 10 second scene of Abby poppin some creatine, pumpin some iron and eating a seraphite or two

 

[Burger]

Are you guys being obtuse on purpose? Are you trying to claim that TLOU isn't aiming for grounded realism within an imaginery scenario?

FF7 is NOT trying to be grounded or realistic whatsoever. It's a high stylized game where characters dress for style over practicality. Hell, FF7 doesn't even take place in our world, while TLOU does.

Abby doesn't look like a man, the whole thing in the OP is nonsense, but her standing out as ridiculously over the top muscular in the game world is a valid observation. The game actually DOES try to justify this by showing you a massive gym and food court, but in the end to maintain a body like that I don't think yo could afford so much time and resources in a post-apocalyptic world. The person her body is modeled after is literally a professional athlete IIRC.

I'm suggesting that you are perfectly happy to suspend your disbelief for all of the parts that suit you. For some people, having a jacked chick in this game conforms to their belief that the director of the game is trying to force some sort of gender propaganda upon them. Which, obviously, will be a crime in the future they are pushing for.

 

[Bragr]

You realize none of them are nowhere near Abby level?

Because they are 15. I'm trying to give you people examples of kids being strong that will turn into Abby down the line if they continue their progress, as I said in the text. And those 2 girls that are ripped, if they had the same fat percentage as Abby they would be A LOT bigger looking.

 

[Jon Neu]

Women bodybuilders are real.

And the roids they use are real too.

Steroids that would be impossible to find in the postapocalypse.

And by the way, Cuckmann simply said that Abby is strong because there’s a gym. That’s it.

He literally thinks a woman can get that big by just using the gym and eat burritos.

 

[Bragr]

we see her eat once and she didn't get to choose what she got and it was rationed to one burrito each so people can't use the protein intake argument.

Jesus Christ, are we gonna start to argue about how many burritos you need to be strong now?

 

[Jack Videogames]

He literally thinks a woman can get that big by just using the gym and eat burritos.

She would need to eat burros to get like that

 

[Saruhashi]

Usually is the important word here, Abby might be big, but if you pick a million women you will have hundreds who can look like her potentially. Even in an apocalypse without steroids or whatever lol. It just gets weird to see all these guys flip over backwards at the sight of a strong chick. Some people are more upset over this than the coronavirus.

It's no more weird than seeing people crying because the internet is calling a fictional character Roidy Magoo.

I like old school Star Wars but if some dude says Darth Vader just looks like some guy with a bucket on his head I don't start crying about it.

Who gives a fuck?

Why does every person who takes a jab at this game need to be portrayed as "flipping out" or "angry" or "upset" etc.

It's possible to be concerned about Coronavirus and ALSO think it's hilarious that Naughty Dogs new main videogame character looks like some roided up freakshow.

It's a fictional character mate. Calm down.

 

[Saruhashi]

Jesus Christ, are we gonna start to argue about how many burritos you need to be strong now?

I think it's 3 burritos a day. Maybe 2 for a woman.

Never mind that. Where is she finding all those performance enhancing drugs in the apocalypse?

Personally I think it's offensive that Naughty Dog obviously based her character model on Chris Benoit.

 

[ZywyPL]

Abby looks like a male version of Lara Croft in those imagines, I mean, the hair, the outfit, just look:

Like it's some sort of Larry Croft lol

According to this tweet, this is the person Abby was based on.

Looks like a dude with long hair, like all female body builders do, nothing new here. So yeah, no wonder that people who haven't heard/read about the game and its controversial direction/design get confused when seeing the character for the very first time. If anything, it's just shows how bad work the artists have done, and calling people out for your own mistakes/missteps, that's what's actually rude. ND wanted controversy, they got controversy, now they can blame no one but themselves.

 

[Inuteu]

 

[Jon Neu]

Because they are 15. I'm trying to give you people examples of kids being strong that will turn into Abby down the line if they continue their progress, as I said in the text. And those 2 girls that are ripped, if they had the same fat percentage as Abby they would be A LOT bigger looking.

You can be 15 and have been working out more years than someone who is 30.

Also, you reach your natural barrier and then you can’t grow more, at best you can maintain that level, but you can’t go beyond except if you use roids.

If you think those alleged 15 years old are going to look like He-man in 10 years because of some made up progression you have made up in your mind, I’m sorry to tell you that’s not how it works.

Only if they use roids can reach this levels:

 

[SirKicksalot]

Look, sorry but if you're hung up on Abby's appearance the problem is YOU. End of story.

Throughout gaming history there's never been a shortage of ludicrous body-builder type physiques, and noone said a word.

Hell, is Abby's size more ridiculous than the Terminator, a supposed inflitration cyborg (LOL) being played by and looking like a multiple-time champion bodybuilder?

No, it is not.

The first movie shows how it infiltrates: it tries to hide how big it is.

 

[DeeDogg_]

The amount of Sony/ ND cock jocks on here and on the rest of the web is astounding.
Druckmann can kill a man over a bad review and people would still try to justify it

 

[Bragr]

Why does every person who takes a jab at this game need to be portrayed as "flipping out" or "angry" or "upset" etc.

In my defense, 50% of the forum is consumed by Abby discussions, flipping out is a proper description.

 

[evanft]

Now this is ridiculous. You can have issues with Abby's design without being "toxic" or whatever.

 

[Bragr]

You can be 15 and have been working out more years than someone who is 30.

Also, you reach your natural barrier and then you can’t grow more, at best you can maintain that level, but you can’t go beyond except if you use roids.

If you think those alleged 15 years old are going to look like He-man in 10 years because of some made up progression you have made up in your mind, I’m sorry to tell you that’s not how it works.

Only if they use roids can reach this levels:

That one chick I posted would literally look like that if she had the same fat percentage, and how can you possibly know their natural barrier? Abby is actually not structured like a bodybuilder, she is not some 3% percentage ripped greek god. If she was she would actually look smaller. To say it's completely impossible to look like Abby is simply wrong. If someone athletically gifted like Helen Maroulis stropped wrestling and focused on weighs and stopped trying to maintain a certain weight she would look like Abby in 6 months. There are many girls like that out there.

 

[kraspkibble]

Now this is ridiculous. You can have issues with Abby's design without being "toxic" or whatever.

you'd think so...

but we're in a world where anything that could potentially offend, upset, or trigger someone is considered hate.

 

[Saruhashi]

In my defense, 50% of the forum is consumed by Abby discussions, flipping out is a proper description.

Don't think it's quite 50% somehow.

I just don't get people acting like Abby Benoit is some untouchable videogame character that must never be criticised.

Fuck that. If people are THIS defensive about the character then I hope everyone will go even harder on the ridicule.

 

[Xtib81]

I can't fathom why everyone seems to think it's some sort of male muscle shaming fetish going on in TLOU 2. That the model for Abby juices doesn't mean Abby does, they clearly removed some definition and added some fat percentage, which is more realistic.

Saying it's not possible to look like Abby without steroids is completely false. This is examples of kids who started training when they were 13-14, they are 15-16 in the pictures. How can anyone possibly say they couldn't look like Abby in 8 years, EASILY. Hell, they could be bigger than Abby when they are 18. There are many completely natural strong-looking girls out there and it's not too hard to find them.

No it's not possible. All the crossfit athletes are juicing and the girls you are showing are nowhere near as big. By the way, after 3 or 4 years of serious lifting, you've pretty much reached your natural limit.

 

[Clear]

Don't think it's quite 50% somehow.

I just don't get people acting like Abby Benoit is some untouchable videogame character that must never be criticised.

Fuck that. If people are THIS defensive about the character then I hope everyone will go even harder on the ridicule.

Its not defensiveness pointing out a lot of the criticisms being levelled are horseshit.

You want to make a case, make your case. But don't expect everyone else to cheerlead you on if/when your rationale is unconvincing and illogical.

Go as hard as you like on the ridicule. I'm not emotionally invested in protecting a game I personally consider flawed, but if I consider your arguments to be meritless, or disingenous, or petty and vindictive I'm going to judge you for it.

 

[Burger]

Don't think it's quite 50% somehow.

I just don't get people acting like Abby Benoit is some untouchable videogame character that must never be criticised.

Fuck that. If people are THIS defensive about the character then I hope everyone will go even harder on the ridicule.

It's not that people are being defensive, it's that male videogamers are still trying to tell people what women should and should not look like. Not only that, fictional women.

 

[Saruhashi]

That one chick I posted would literally look like that if she had the same fat percentage, and how can you possibly know their natural barrier? Abby is actually not structured like a bodybuilder, she is not some 3% percentage ripped greek god. If she was she would actually look smaller. To say it's completely impossible to look like Abby is simply wrong. If someone athletically gifted like Helen Maroulis stropped wrestling and focused on weighs and stopped trying to maintain a certain weight she would look like Abby in 6 months. There are many girls like that out there.

Nonsense.

I look at those women you mentioned and see pretty standard athletes.

I look at Abby from the Last of Us and think of this:

 

[Bragr]

Don't think it's quite 50% somehow.

I just don't get people acting like Abby Benoit is some untouchable videogame character that must never be criticised.

Fuck that. If people are THIS defensive about the character then I hope everyone will go even harder on the ridicule.

It's the internet, it's always silly.

 

[Saruhashi]

It's not that people are being defensive, it's that male videogamers are still trying to tell people what women should and should not look like. Not only that, fictional women.

Oh no! The horror!

Jesus Christ.

Not those male videogamers! How could they do this!?

I'd say the videogame community has come a long way, to be honest.

In the 80s and 90s arcade games had the "winners don't do drugs" message on some cabinets.
Fast forward to 2020 and we have one of the biggest AAA games starring a roid fuelled protagonist.

 

[Bragr]

Nonsense.

I look at those women you mentioned and see pretty standard athletes.

I look at Abby from the Last of Us and think of this:

Then the problem is with you, not Abby. If you look at the characters from similar camera angles, the difference is not massive. You guys are posting some weird angles with her flexing or something, but it's not so extreme as you guys are trying to portray.

 

[Croatoan]

According to this tweet, this is the person Abby was based on.



Good for that CD Projekt Red guy calling out the professional intimidation based on an understandable observation (havent seen the accompanying text for the upload though).

The hilarious thing is that woman still looks like a woman. They failed at copying her body, and failed at making a good video game. ND sucks.

Then the problem is with you, not Abby. If you look at the characters from similar camera angles, the difference is not massive. You guys are posting some weird angles with her flexing or something, but it's not so extreme as you guys are trying to portray.

Look at the waist. Abby has a male waist and this girl has a female waist. Bulking up will not give you a male waistline.

 

[OutRun88]

Boy it sure is fun watching freedom of speech slip away in this world...

 

[Spukc]

Are you guys being obtuse on purpose? Are you trying to claim that TLOU isn't aiming for grounded realism within an imaginery scenario?

FF7 is NOT trying to be grounded or realistic whatsoever. It's a high stylized game where characters dress for style over practicality. Hell, FF7 doesn't even take place in our world, while TLOU does.

Abby doesn't look like a man, the whole thing in the OP is nonsense, but her standing out as ridiculously over the top muscular in the game world is a valid observation. The game actually DOES try to justify this by showing you a massive gym and food court, but in the end to maintain a body like that I don't think yo could afford so much time and resources in a post-apocalyptic world. The person her body is modeled after is literally a professional athlete IIRC.

i agree with the fact that cloud looks like a pussy

 

[Saruhashi]

Its not defensiveness pointing out a lot of the criticisms being levelled are horseshit.

You want to make a case, make your case. But don't expect everyone else to cheerlead you on if/when your rationale is unconvincing and illogical.

Go as hard as you like on the ridicule. I'm not emotionally invested in protecting a game I personally consider flawed, but if I consider your arguments to be meritless, or disingenous, or petty and vindictive I'm going to judge you for it.

Oh shit. Not that. Anything but that.

Dude the character looks like she should be headlining Summerslam on Sunday and then getting raided by the cops for selling illegal performance enhancing drugs on Monday.

She's fuckin lucky the apocalypse doesn't have a Wellness program.

It's funny because I've said many times here and on the other place that I thought the character designs of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 are atrociously bad and nobody ever gave me any trouble.

Yet I point out that the main character of TLOU2 is a Roidy Magoo and people are screeching about "trying to tell people what women should and should not look like".

Reeeeeeeee! She said her prayers and ate her vitamins to get those 24 inch pythons, brother!

 

[Bragr]

This hilarious thing is that woman still looks like a woman. They failed at copying her body, and failed at making a good video game. ND sucks.


Look at the waist. Abby has a male waist and this girl has a female waist. Bulking up will not give you a male waistline.

Well, Helen is wearing a wrestling suit by contrast. I was gonna try to find a picture of a girl without an hourglass figure and muscles, but at some point, this has to end. If you are angry about her waistline the go-ahead. I could prove it's not unrealistic and you guys would start to argue about how her left finger is looking like a male finger.

 

[junguler]

if it looks like a man and acts like a man, it's a woman! because always subvert expectations.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Naughty Dog changes audience perceptions.

 

[Saruhashi]

Then the problem is with you, not Abby.

LOL.

I didn't even think it was possible to white knight for a fictional character.

 

[Croatoan]

Well, Helen is wearing a wrestling suit by contrast. I was gonna try to find a picture of a girl without an hourglass figure and muscles, but at some point, this has to end. If you are angry about her waistline the go-ahead. I could prove it's not unrealistic and you guys would start to argue about her left finger is looking like a male finger.

I am not angry at abby, lol, I just think she is a cheap stereotypical trans character that is horribly designed if she is meant to actually be a woman. Very few, if any, women look like Abby when they bulk up.

I was watching Penny Dreadful with my wife last night (an ok show) and they have a trans character in the second season that not only nearly passes at first glance but is actually interesting and well thought out without being completely hideous to look at.

I consume entertainment to be entertained. I am entertained by attractive people doing cool things in interesting stories. TLOU2 did not have attractive people, rarely had cool things to do and its story was contrived dog shit. So, no, I am not mad that abby is a terrible character model, I am mad that ND retroactively ruined TLOU because they just had to go virtue signal all over the sequel.