Psykodad
Banned
GamePass/xCloud basically is the same thing as the DRM-bs, just turned into a streaming-service.
MS never denounced those DRM plans and officially stated they were merely "too soon".
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Phil Spencer feels it's counter productive to lock people away from games by making them device exclusive, prefers to scale games across ecosystem
- Thread starter Evilms
- Start date
MS never denounced those DRM plans and officially stated they were merely "too soon".
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Again, you are talking about something BC addresses. BC and generations are orthogonal concepts... not sure why you are blending the two together...
Klayzer
Member
That's their new and improved meme. "But Sony does it too". Phil probably needs to back away from the interviews, and let the upcoming Xbox games speak for themselves. Enough with the we want you to be able to play anywhere (except PlayStation apparently) pr rhetoric.
I will gladly eat these words when their games actually becomes playable everywhere. Until then, this campaign reeks of toxic green manure.
JCK75
Member
Because now they all use what is essentially PC standard hardware, There is not such thing as a Generation on PC which is what my point is, if your PC gets to old you at some point can no longer play new games without upgrading. With Consoles beginning with Xbox One and PS4 there need no longer be generations and there is no reason a game for Xbox Series X cannot also run on Xbox One X with reduced detail. Microsoft is trying to give their consumers the most value and let them ease into Next Gen rather than force them to jump right in at a time when money is tight because a lot of people are out of work. People are actually claiming the death of MS because they are showing some friggen decency towards the consumer.
Fortuneelsewhere
Member
Don’t worry the millions of gamers that bought TLOU II just proved my point.
But is neither brilliant or makavellian is just dumb.. bare with me, they should be busy trying to appeal to PS4 owners with arguments for they to change field in order to increase their market share for next gen.. instead what they are doing is trying to retain their established user base, looking as if, actually, they are more afraid of loosing their customers to Sony than capture PlayStation customers.
In the end all this marketing message will not make anything to appeal to new customers just content some of the ones they already have that don’t have the money or the motivation to buy new hardware (not the majority of their user base for sure).
Their message is very self centric, bland and unexciting.. They are not talking about new experiences or features... just resolution, frame rates or scalability as like now we are all pc gamers and should be excited for scalability...
People are eager for new experiences, new ways of play... they want to leave last gen behind and the company that will deliver that speech is the one who will excite buyers..
I sincere predict that although ms have a truly wonderful machine in the form of series x they will be spanked coming next gen by Sony again.. their strategy is completely off...
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
So it's possible every 1st party MS game for the Xbox Series X will be made for the Xbox Box One 3 years from now too then right?
WelshBluebird
Member
Surely using his own logic then its also "counter productive to lock people away from games" by making them Xbox exclusive? If he really believed on making games available to as many people as possible they would be releasing Xbox exclusives on PlayStation too.
vdopey
Member
The bullshit from MS is strong and I honestly have a hard time believing people believe the complete PR bollocks coming from them. The worst thing is that the gaming media is mostly US companies and they almost always seem to prop the MS propaganda.
They say anything that suits the narrative that will suit them for that specific scenario / period. It's almost like they think we are so dumb we forget their previous stance.
No it's a handful of games in the first 12-18 months as transition or grace period. 3 years from now will be games like hell blade 2 nextgen only. It's not hard to figure out. But the concern trolling is appreciated.
vdopey
Member
No, there is a difference between not liking MS and its bullshit and being a Sony fanboy, but whatever.
splattered
Member
Seems like i recall them saying through the first 2 years?
At the same time Sony also said they will continue to fully support PS4 for the next few years. People like to try and twist that and pretend like Sony won't be making any cross gen games period moving forward. Some will be, some won't.
Psykodad
Banned
So basically, it's all PR to cover the fact they are pretty much empty handed the first 1-2 years.
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Gavon West
Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
I wasnt sure before but now im pretty certain. Most of you guys are triggered by what Phil said because its yet another way it puts Microsoft ahead of the curve on how they handle 1st party next gen and cross gen games.
I mean, lets face it. Effectively Microsoft isnt just doing next gen experiences for just Series X. Their doing next gen experiences for the current gen too. One title can feed a whole buffet of devices from the Xbox ecosystem. Sony is primarily PS5. Thats pretty much it. When you compare the two methods, I guess one could say it kind of puts Sony in a bad light? I cant call it.
Either way itll be interesting to see how this all shakes out. I think the lot of you could be a little more open minded with the two different agendas when speaking on Sony and Microsoft. My two cents...
I mean, lets face it. Effectively Microsoft isnt just doing next gen experiences for just Series X. Their doing next gen experiences for the current gen too. One title can feed a whole buffet of devices from the Xbox ecosystem. Sony is primarily PS5. Thats pretty much it. When you compare the two methods, I guess one could say it kind of puts Sony in a bad light? I cant call it.
Either way itll be interesting to see how this all shakes out. I think the lot of you could be a little more open minded with the two different agendas when speaking on Sony and Microsoft. My two cents...
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Why would GamePass need to be on the PS4/4 when they have PSNow?
MS is more than welcome to put their first party games on PSNow and the like. Nothing is stopping them, but them.
MS is more than welcome to put their first party games on PSNow and the like. Nothing is stopping them, but them.
FranXico
Member
It's just the typical PR doublespeak.
It also amuses me how some people who always are very vocal about "Sony exclusives" being so "anti-consumer" are now rejoicing at the prospect of literally taking Batman and Mortal Kombat away from PlayStation consoles forever.
No matter how much these people harp on about how good this will be for these studios, or how "far ahead of the curve" Microsoft is (LOL), or how "at least it will still come to PC", it is very transparent that all they really care about is taking games away from that other platform.
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fallingdove
Member
I think this is what is so ridiculous about Phil's statements. To suggest that Microsoft is building some utopian platform where everyone can play their games is incredibly disingenuous. Behind the scenes, they are just as focused on exclusivity as anyone — Microsoft notoriously buying 3rd party franchises to create the perception that the properties are coming from Microsoft Game Studios when in reality there are only a handful of titles that have originated from inside Microsoft (Flight Sim, Age of Empires, and Forza?).
Put your money where your mouth is Phill - offer GamePass on Sony, Nintendo, Google, and Apple devices as well as on Texas Instrument calculators or Xbox is also working against the "spirit of gaming".
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Klayzer
Member
Apparently if you're not down with the direction and pr of Xbox, you're a raging Sony fanboy. I guess we can't never discuss a Microsoft article, without Xfans lobbying tired ass keywords to stifle any criticism of the content. Blah,blah triggered.... blah,blah bias.... blah,blah Sonygaf, blah,blah (insert favorite played out gif to mask passive aggressive rage) etc. Its the same playbook seemingly for all on team green.
SkylineRKR
Member
Microsoft created this trend.
They bought GTA IV exclusive DLC, pissing off the PS userbase. They also had timed deals with Activision back on 360. And they moneyhatted some other IP, though the fact Sony was late and PS3 was kind of shitty could've contributed to this. I don't remember how Ace Combat, Tales of etc all appeared (timed) exclusive on 360.
In reality their exclusive output was effectively killed. They let go of Bizarre, put Rare on Kinect, and pretty much focused on third party and their pillars Forxa, Gears and Halo. Other IP they have, like Crackdown, I think you could say MS mishandled this.
Sony doubled down on games while MS went all Kinect and TV. And now they kind of try making exclusivity look bad. Moneyhats are bad. But Sony doesn't moneyhat that much. I think Sony did nothing on the level of Rise of the Tomb Raider. They had SFV, but Capcom sought an investor and Sony was apparently the only party that was interested. I think Dead Rising 3 saw a similar deal with MS.
You can fault them for yearly exclusive deals in Destiny, which is or was a shitty practice. Generally all those timed exclusive DLC are laughable.
They bought GTA IV exclusive DLC, pissing off the PS userbase. They also had timed deals with Activision back on 360. And they moneyhatted some other IP, though the fact Sony was late and PS3 was kind of shitty could've contributed to this. I don't remember how Ace Combat, Tales of etc all appeared (timed) exclusive on 360.
In reality their exclusive output was effectively killed. They let go of Bizarre, put Rare on Kinect, and pretty much focused on third party and their pillars Forxa, Gears and Halo. Other IP they have, like Crackdown, I think you could say MS mishandled this.
Sony doubled down on games while MS went all Kinect and TV. And now they kind of try making exclusivity look bad. Moneyhats are bad. But Sony doesn't moneyhat that much. I think Sony did nothing on the level of Rise of the Tomb Raider. They had SFV, but Capcom sought an investor and Sony was apparently the only party that was interested. I think Dead Rising 3 saw a similar deal with MS.
You can fault them for yearly exclusive deals in Destiny, which is or was a shitty practice. Generally all those timed exclusive DLC are laughable.
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JTCx
Member
Why is hellblade 2 for next gen only? Is microsoft for the people or not? I better get my hellblade 2 experience on the 360.
TheGrat1
Member
Damn, straight. x86! Everything is scalable, bro! Pro-consumer! Saint Phil would never leave us behind.
>Microsoft 1st Party
>Ahead of the curve
Pick one.
The way Microsoft is handling cross gen games is the same way most third party publishers handle cross gen games. These titles were started on and built for Xbox One and are simply being ported over to the Series X. After a year when they have games designed for Series X there will be no Xbox One versions because they will be actual next gen games that a Xbox One could not handle. It is the only explanation that makes sense. Cutting off a perfectly scaleable (as so many in this thread seem to believe all games are) game just one year into the new gen would make no sense from a business standpoint, unless Microsoft expects Series X to surpass the Xbox One's lifetime sales in one year they will be leaving millions of potential
"Sony is primarily PS5" because that is the baseline that their future games are being built for. Phil will not have any baseline Series X games ready for an entire year and they are not going to throw away the Xbox One version. That is why those games will be on both One and SeX. It is that simple.
tryDEATH
Member
That is why there supposedly only on next generation, if you don't know that what is the point of even having a discussion then if your just talking and arguing for the sake of it. This was enough for me to see your just rabbit fanboy provocateur. Its useless talking to you, have fun being a die hard warrior.
Majima Everywhere System
Member
Edit: wrong thread. Sorry!
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Gavon West
Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
And again, if the presser on the 23rd is legit and the games dont look like ports from this generation, then id say they will be able to do exactly what they said they could do. Which, Id prepare for if i were you.Damn, straight. x86! Everything is scalable, bro! Pro-consumer! Saint Phil would never leave us behind.
>Microsoft 1st Party
>Ahead of the curve
Pick one.
The way Microsoft is handling cross gen games is the same way most third party publishers handle cross gen games. These titles were started on and built for Xbox One and are simply being ported over to the Series X. After a year when they have games designed for Series X there will be no Xbox One versions because they will be actual next gen games that a Xbox One could not handle. It is the only explanation that makes sense. Cutting off a perfectly scaleable (as so many in this thread seem to believe all games are) game just one year into the new gen would make no sense from a business standpoint, unless Microsoft expects Series X to surpass the Xbox One's lifetime sales in one year they will be leaving millions of potentialsalesgamepass subscriptions on the table.
"Sony is primarily PS5" because that is the baseline that their future games are being built for. Phil will not have any baseline Series X games ready for an entire year and they are not going to throw away the Xbox One version. That is why those games will be on both One and SeX. It is that simple.
Quite simply, if the games shown during the press conference look as good or better than what Sony showed, effectively, youll probably need to change your stance. Im personally betting 10:1 that youll need to. 10 days...
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
So I guess generations for Xbox stopped with the original Xbox then (which was PC HW)? Surprising, I seem to recall exclusive Xbox 360 and Xbox One titles
.You also are taking it the other way around: the user replaceable HW/open HW platform PC gaming market as not having generations and the semi custom silicon that you may also see in PC’s down the line as if they were the same thing. Both consoles contain a lot of customisations not available on PC’s and the console generation is defined by this fixed HW and the software and tools built around that specific model and thus able to present a more focused and efficient development and debugging environment to devs.
You can enjoy PC gaming as it is without trying to make consoles just a closed box PC locked behind a multiplayer paywall and a proprietary store only because a PC platform stakeholder is trying to change the rules of a market it had not been able to win big in about 30 years...
Please stop being so patronising about this MS is doing all of this to help customers that are broke not to have to jump on the new console. That is really the disingenuous argument I find annoying. Nobody is forcing PS4 customers to jump in, the strapped for cash gamers are not going to buy all the launch software nor the new consoles, but the titles already available for the console and in the last two years PS4 did not exactly withhold titles just to add to the PS5 lineup.
oldergamer
Member
Haha funny. Actually it was sony that started this process during ps2 where they would blacklist smaller studios if they were supporting xbox at the same time, or planned to release on both at the same time. They kept gta off other consoles for a long time.
They even would not approve titles if you didnt put something in extra just for the platform (they literally got sued in europe and forced to not deny a game from getting published)
Jubenhimer
Member
I get what he's saying. When people talk about exclusives, they're referring to platform exclusives, not necessarily device exclusive. But games you can only get on that ecosystem. I do agree with this strategy, and I think it's a solid compromise between consumer freedom and viable business. Netflix can be used on anything with a screen, yet most of its catalog is exclusive to their platform. Microsoft is taking a similar approach.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I know what they said before. But if you take Phil's words here to heart.......it means he'll be okay with forcing 1st party devs to make games on the Xbox One for years to come. This statement of his is silly.
FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
I’d say you’re the one pretending to know what you are talking about, Sony’s PR has really brainwashed you.
FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
I try to understand your logic and I can’t. They have games that they could be pushing next gen only if they wanted, nothing is stopping them from doing so, they could have done so a long time ago, and yet they are choosing not to. So how are they empty handed when they have tons of games coming and are cross gen, yet you keep saying they are empty handed. It’s like there is something you don’t understand, I wonder if you are being stupid on purpose.
FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
Sony bought console exclusivity from Sega for Tomb Raider back in the day which is why only TR1 is available on Saturn. They’ve been doing this shit for a long time.
FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
Except where do you see a discussion in this thread? All I’ve seen are the same people making the same comments:
-Phil is lying again, 2 faced motherfucker just like Greenberg
-Cross gen is stupid, Sony is smart
-Why don’t they go third party lol
-MS doesn’t have games
All blatant trolling, none of those concerns are real and trying to start a discussion.
supernova8
Banned
Yeah I heard far fewer people complaining about loud consoles on the Xbox One side. They definitely fucked up by forcing Kinect on people by bundling it and and also lying in suggesting that Xbox One couldn't possibly work, but as a piece of hardware I cannot call it bad aside from it being a bit weaker than PS4.
supernova8
Banned
Personally I agree with them but I look at it from a 'I really want to want an Xbox Series X' perspective. I genuinely believe Xbox not pushing ahead with next-gen only exclusives will gift the generation to Sony and they will find it difficult to recover unless they really do have a cheap Lockhart system up their sleeve. The fact that they opened up their 'Xbox Series X games reveal' with a bunch of games that for the most part didn't look next-gen in the slightest hardly fills people with confidence, either.
I'll probably buy a PS5 over Xbox Series X but I want a competitive Xbox to keep Sony on their toes. Xbox absolutely slapping Playstation during the 360/PS3 era (at least in the early days) might be partly why we ended up with so many fantastic first party PS3 games. Imagine what it would've been like if Microsoft didn't absolutely pummel them early on.
Besides, I totally understand Microsoft's approach. They have PC, they have XCloud, they have Games Pass. They don't really care where you play your games as long as it's within their ecosystem. My beef is that (I believe) this is a big threat to true generational leaps and people like generational leaps. If we just get slow trickling, never-ending incremental improvements, part of the magic of console generations is lost and that's a sad day in my books.
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GHG
Member
This is getting ridiculous now.
Even Phil isn't silly enough to come up with nonsense like this.
Psykodad
Banned
"Tons of games".
Are you talking 1st party or is 3rd party included?
Ofcourse they can make their games XSX exclusive if they want to, but that would likely mean that more games (if there is much besides Halo) would release later on.
And they already need to worry about keeping part of their installbase of ~50M from moving to Playstation after a lackluster gen.
So we're back at "we are pro-consumer by supporting both current and next-gen".
Gavon West
Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
The problem is you haven’t seen Halo on Xbox Series X, you haven’t seen Forza, you have barely seen Hellbladd / (and that looked next gen), you haven’t seen fable... so how do you know there won’t be a generational increment on those games?
It’s all suppositions from now from those that say they are on the fence or don’t care about Xbox, they think because some games are cross gen they won’t look next gen, yet they don’t have anything to show for.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
By definition it is not a next gen game, it is a cross gen game. Just as BotW was a cross gen game. You can try to argue semantics, but it would not magically make the game somehow physically improve by you calling it something else.
GHG
Member
How can it be a "next gen" game when it's also on current gen. By definition, if it's the same game on current gen consoles then it's a current gen game.
Or are you one of those people who think 4k with a sprinkling of ray tracing is enough for something to be defined as next gen?
FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
Sometimes I don’t know if you read or not and just reply rubbish.
First I thought this thread was about their first party games, especially if we talk about Game Pass and your agenda of “pro consumer”, so he’s they do have tons of first party games in the pipeline.
Second, why would stuff be pushed back, where do you get that? I said they could have made all their games next gen only, it was a decision that was made not to do so, what is it you don’t understand? They don’t need to push anything back, the consciously decided todevelop their games for next gen and scale them down to Xbox One levels because they can, the tools make it possible (in fact, Unreal Engine is very good at this) and that will also give them a much bigger pool of players to sell for, as in Xbox One, Xbox Series X, and a lot more people on PC as that means they will be supporting a lot more hardware options.
I somehow doubt games like Far Cry 6 require extra time to develop for next gen, they are already developing for PC, and like any game, PC will always have the highest fidelity. Again, develop high fidelity and scale down. Is there something you have a hard time grasping here? Just look at last gen when we had ForzaHorizon 2 and Dise of Tomb Raiser as examples of that.
And you pro Sumer thing you seem to think is all about doing this to keep Xbox players or whatever, again the scalability makes it possible to sell to a higher audience and have a much bigger user base which is what all games aspire to, but also to give something to Game Pass customers. People with their Xbox One that are not upgrading right away might still be possible customers of Game Pass, people on GTX 980s on PC might also be interested in paying for it to play Halo this Fall. It’s not about retaining Xbox One customers so they don’t change ship (which is only a scenario in your Sony fanboy universe by the way) but about expanding that 10 million Game Pass number to 20 million, if not more. Sony has more than twice the userbase, but 5 times less subscribers to PS Now because their service is shit. MS has something huge here and they are pushing for it as it’s working, and bringing in PC as well was a smart move, PC is a biggerplatform than consoles, and once smart devices get added in the potential is even bigger (although smart devices will run off Xbox Series X blades next year so scalability won’t matter for those devices.
So stop with your conspiracy theories and stop the cult of Jim “we want players to experience something only possible on PS5” Ryan, because it’s all PR and he knows it, he’s just trying to sell you an over locked and burning hot piece of plastic that won’t have anything “truely next gen” (as you like to think) until late next year but has brainwashed you into thinking everything you are getting this fall is only possible on their box. And the only reason why it’s only possible on their box is because they are forcing those games to be only sold there, not because they aren’t possible elsewhere.
LeftThumbstick
Member
The most next gen title so far, by Xbox. Will be on everything from Xbox One to Series X to PC, and looks better than any game right now, is planetery sized and allows you to see and fly over (or into) your own home if wanted.
I'm not sure if you were dropped on the head or something, but you know how games have a "video settings" option that usually has "low, med, high, extreme" settings ect? Thats what "next gen" has been and always will be. I'll wait for your pseudo explanation as to what "next gen" actually means and why everyone is wrong.
" By definition, if it's the same game on current gen consoles then it's a current gen game."
By definition, doesn't it mean that if it plays on the next gen consoles then its a next gen game too though? What if its made targetting next gen then just ported downwards to older gen console so it can be playable on those too... Is it not next gen then?
FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
How do you guys know, have you seen both versions side by side? Is a game like Death Loop not next gen because it will also appear on PC?
Is your definition of next gen only the fact that it’s only available on a next gen box,no matter how it looks?
Id like to see your explanations on how Halo Infinite will only be an Xbox One game in 4K with a dash of ray tracing thrown in for good measure. Show me the proof, because as far as I know you guys ain’t got shit except “your feelings”, which isn’t a professional opinion and is most likely completely wrong and made up.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
It was not made targetting next gen if it was orginally started 5 years ago and announced for XboxOne. And porting downwards is not happening, not when the game isn't even out yet. As I say, the game is not going to be magically become better just because you want to believe in fantasy. Faith alone is not enough to change reality.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
People have been doing it for pages while you are defending Phil’s words from Phil himself. It will be amusing once some first party stunning XSX exclusives will be announced and nobody white knighting for new Phil against yesterday Phil will say a single thing about it being anti consumer
.Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
This is not an industry problem, it is MS not being able to score a massive win in the console market in about 30 years with their previous approach and instead of just stating what their new approach is (admitting they could not crack the old one) they are also trying to score good guy points and paint Sony as the bad guy/try to pin some negative PR on them with this disingenuous anti consumer angle.
At the same time they are calling exclusives anti-consumer they announce they are not done buying studios (and then making their content exclusive to their platform).
Sony
Nintendo
It's not exactly rocket science. Next generation consoles bring with them a series of architecture advancements that help to achieve results otherwise not possible on current gen hardware.
And yes, ray tracing is one of those advancements.
The other way around, if I understand your logic correctly, you're leaning toward next-gen console exclusivity as a definition of a next gen game. This quite a pointless definition, as by that standard a PS5 exclusive that looks and runs worse than TLOU II PS4 would be a next gen game in your eyes.
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LeftThumbstick
Member
Well done, you just proved Xbox's point there. It's not even built for "next gen" yet is capable of looking far better than anything currently on the market, anything better that has been shown on a PS5 currently and even has PC users wondering if their specs can handle it at full detail unless they have monster builds.
Also, how exactly do you know it wasn't made targetting next gen? You dont, you're literally just making stuff up to further your narrative. On that point though, FS2020 is a Microsoft owned IP and they KNEW what specs they were targetting as they were building this and what to build towards. Jesus christ it would be a travesty if they didn't know their own spec target
It's not even how good this game looks though, it's how much detail it has and the physics, the weather systems, night and day system on a planetry scale that is accurate. This game is so well thought out that pilots can use it for training.
I think you guys use this "next gen" terminology to try and belittle genuinely good things.
Sony
Nintendo
I wouldn't even classify it as a problem at all. You're making it a problem, while it's standard business practice. Look how often Apple backtracked on certain decisions under the same leadership. Is that a problem or is that shifting business strategy in a way they see most productive?
Also, I don't agree with you how they try to "spin" things. Phil clearly states that it's their approach and explain why it's their approach. He doesn't say it's the best approach and everyone who does it differently is wrong.
And by the way, most importantly, Xbox' approach/policy to games and exclusives was in effect prior to the announcement of the PS5. Meaning that it's unfair to state Phil's statement as negative PR toward Sony. Sony could have chosen to go this route as well, that wouldn't change MS's policy.
You're actively looking for a scandal where there is none.
LeftThumbstick
Member
Your name is decieving
you are spot on though.Similar threads
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