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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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A

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
Thirty7ven said:
HaloVRS.jpg

HaloVRS2.jpg



Wonder why Eagle Eye Alex didn’t mention anything about this.
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You don't know ? According to some he is unbiased and tear Halo a new one....
Without mentionning dynamic 4K or some of the worst parts f the demo...

But gran turismo ray tracing looked subpar when zomming 10 times for no reasons and no excuses for example.
 
Rudius

Rudius

Member
sircaw said:
Microsoft need to delay Halo, its that simple. The thrashking video highlight a multitude of problems in that demo alone, that was meant to show Halo at it's finest, it was their show case. They have about four months or so to fix, add, correct things. image all the other areas that are not right, there could be hundreds of bugs, unfinished work.

what is that famous quote about a bad game that is released to early stays a bad game forever. Someone can quote it. well this is going to be that. Don't do it Microsoft.

Fs phil spencer, do not release this in that state. If you start the new generation with your flagship game getting a 7/10 it is going to be terrible, unforgivable in fact.

Delay it, hold it back, polish it, make it a 9/10 then get it out next year for xmas. There are already tonnes of games to play.

Make an executive decision, and stop the rot.
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1 delay the game.
2 cancel last gen version.
3 implement ray tracing.
4 give up on native 4k.
5 work to get the graphics on par with the first trailers of the engine.
 
MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
icerock said:
It'll be really interesting to hear about the development of this game once it's out. I can already imagine Schreier would be eager to sink his teeth into it.

This was shown a year before to demonstrate the engine
undefined
Click to expand...

Man those screenshots remind me of Horizon Forbidden West in a way.
 
Yoboman

Yoboman

Member
I
Neo Blaster said:
Gamepass' value for consumers excuse can never give MS a free pass for poor quality games. It's funny how we went this week from '12TF, Smart Delivery, Velocity Architecture!!' to 'Gamepass!!!!'.
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Its not a new twctic by the MS faithful, theyve fallen back to "but its free on Gamepass" every time a game has looked rough or reviewed poorly these past few years
 
Killer Sakoman

Killer Sakoman

Member
ToadMan said:
You know I'm coming round to this idea now.

I think actually there is no generational console competition at this stage.


MS aren't directly competing with Sony or Nintendo any more.

Xsex isn't being treated like a "next gen" console release. The way MS are treating it, the release of xsex this year is a coincidence not a focus of their strategy.

To be honest I think MS is pulling in 2 directions internally - one part, probably the business side - has seen the potential for a new revenue stream for gamepass, the opportunity to lead that segment, and wants all resources to go there. Thye want to be spotify/netflix and the opportunity is there at the moment.

That element probably doesn't want to spend money to develop/release custom hardware right now - the work is done so may as well press on - but xbox hardware isn't their priority and the custom hardware messaging conflicts with gamepass.

Somewhere else - probably inside the xbox division and the teams working on the hardware/ O/S - they still believe they're competing in the consumer electronics space with Sony and they're the ones pushing a new Xbox.

No one had the balls to straight up cancel the xsex project so they're continuing but clearly it's not the focus of MS efforts.

In the past I felt that if the xsex was a "sales failure" it'd be the last custom hardware xbox. Now I'm not sure it matters whether it's a "failure" or "success" assuming gamepass is winning/competing in the game "sampler" segment.

MS are making all their games run on low spec hardware and PC. Why produce custom hardware if you can just box up a PC and badge it as xbox and still run the games? Save a ton of money on custom hardware/OS and get the same result.

What this means for Sony is that while the PS5 is unopposed in the "traditional" console space, they'll be forced to respond to how the market is moving. Simple answer - let gamepass appear on playstation - but that's the thin end of a wedge - for gamepass to work on PS, the PS architecture also has to be/remain PC like going forward.

Sony could go the other way and try to compete with MS on something like gamepass in the cross platform world but here's where the visions of the companies diverge.

Sony have a different stake in the game - they're a consumer electronics company. Playstation fits with their other products in the home electronics space so it's in their interest to resist the PC crossover for as long as they can.

If PS stops being custom hardware and moves to a PC box with releases day/date in the PC space, Sony would be competing in a sector they have little presence in, and dilute the very consumer electronics focus that drives the sales across their product line.

TLDR Gamepass plays to MS strengths, Playstation plays to Sony's strengths - they're not directly comepting right now and neither should they.
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Just because Microsoft is heading somewhere does not mean it will change the market. The market leaders move the direction of the market not the failures.
Movies and music are very different to gaming they are not interactive and can still produce quality content with lower budgets to be profitable in a subscription enviroment ( look at Netflix originals, all lower budgets but still produce good quality). Games are different, quality requires budget=> budget cannot survive with subscription
 
MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
ToadMan said:
Yeah agree - the xsex marketing and messaging is awful right now and MS aren't taking steps to turn that around - or at least not effective steps.

If that's the best MS "marketing" and the xbox division can do with a new console there's a problem - they either make a plan to move away from the custom hardware (and MS are a blue chip company so I believe that was/is the plan all the way back to the first use of x86, not an accident) or the market will force that on them unceremoniously.
Click to expand...

What I find weird is that they did a pretty good job with the marketing earlier in the year. Using their social media to tweet bits and pieces of then XSX and the surprise reveal was brilliant. And they did a good job with the teardown as well.

But notice something? That's all hardware. When it came to events showcasing the software they did a really bad job. This last event wasn't that bad but Halo Infinite is an extremely poor showcase of the consoles capabilities.

I have no idea why they are struggling so much with properly revealing the software running on an XSX. They did a great job with the hardware reveals but they really need to do a much better job showing us the software.
 
jose4gg

jose4gg

Member
I’ve seen so many fanboys say that with the RT patch everything will be solve, but 😂, one of the things that the Quantum Error developers have said is that Raytracing lighting REALLY shows all the imperfections of a game.

If they 343i don’t fix the other stuff, with better lighting will be A LOT MORE EASY to identify all the things in the screen that aren’t working
 
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A

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
jose4gg said:
I’ve seen so many fanboys say that with the RT patch everything will be solve, but 😂, one of the things that the Quantum Error developers have said is that Raytracing lighting REALLY shows all the imperfections of a game.

If they 343i don’t fix the other stuff, with better lighting will be A LOT MORE EASY to identify all the things in the screen that aren’t working
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It's not just fanboys Alex from Digital Foundry did it t............... Oh I get it now.

So yeah you are right.
 
Vae_Victis

Vae_Victis

Banned
Shmunter said:
Edit : how did DF not pixel count or check for RDNA2 features in use?
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Because it would have been in contrast to the argument Alex wanted to make. Which is that lighting is the main issue of the game, everything else stems from that and really if you fix that then everything is fine. Coincidentally I'm sure, the only thing 343 already said will be overhauled with a patch is lighting. Damage control 101.

Alex was saying wacky things before and his pro-Xbox bias was there to an extent, but at this point he's just gone in full denial and apologetics mode. Expect him to flat out lie even more blatantly than before in his videos and on ResetEra, as fanboys gather around him and the spiral of cognitive bias drags everyone further and further down.
 
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kraspkibble

kraspkibble

Permabanned.
Ozryel said:
Click to expand...

i'm sorry but this actually makes it look worse. colours are way too saturated and highlights/shadows are washed out. i know it's not a real HDR video but it doesn't do it any favours. i actually think it made the pop in more noticeable. for example, some pop in on the rocks after MC gets in the vehicle i never noticed until now.

and yes i actually did just watch it on HDR display. i haven't been hating on the game like most people but do agree it looks rough. things will improve before launch so i'm gonna hold judgement until it launches.
 
A

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
Vae_Victis said:
Because it would have been in contrast to the argument Alex wanted to make. Which is that lighting is the main issue of the game, everything else stems from that and really if you fix that then everything is fine. Coincidentally I'm sure, the only thing 343 already said will be overhauled with a patch is lighting. Damage control 101.

Alex was saying wacky things before and his pro-Xbox bias was there to an extent, but at this point he's just gone in full denial and apologetics mode. Expect him to flat out lie even more blatantly than before in his videos and on ResetEra, as fanboys gather around him and the spiral of cognitive bias goes down and down.
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Yeah but hasn't been saying that Halo will be the best and mot beautiful game ever so he is not biased.

No matter how different he treats games coming from Sony or microsoft and how apologetic he is with Halo and all the things he didn't notice that were plainly visible to an untrained eye.

But every sony games showed some flaws when zoomed 10 times and nothing can fix them.

Unkike Halo where popin flat textures and static world would be instantly fixed with ray traced lights.
 
ToadMan

ToadMan

Member
sircaw said:
Microsoft need to delay Halo, its that simple. The thrashking video highlight a multitude of problems in that demo alone, that was meant to show Halo at it's finest, it was their show case. They have about four months or so to fix, add, correct things. image all the other areas that are not right, there could be hundreds of bugs, unfinished work.

what is that famous quote about a bad game that is released to early stays a bad game forever. Someone can quote it. well this is going to be that. Don't do it Microsoft.

Fs phil spencer, do not release this in that state. If you start the new generation with your flagship game getting a 7/10 it is going to be terrible, unforgivable in fact.

Delay it, hold it back, polish it, make it a 9/10 then get it out next year for xmas. There are already tonnes of games to play.

Make an executive decision, and stop the rot.
Click to expand...

To fix Halo’s problems as they were shown would take at least a year. It might even be necessary to scrap it and start again if they’re problems in the engine that need a rewrite.

If they launch without Halo, and nothing equivalent to replace it (I could only imagine a gears 6 carrying it - I don’t think a forza would be enough) then the Xsex will be DOA.

By the time Halo turns up to sell the Xsex, PS5 will be 10 or 20 millions ahead, everyone will be playing the games there and the need for Xsex - especially with gamepass which has weakened that need - will be all but gone.

Actually the only option would be to pull the whole console from launch. But the bad publicity from doing that would be awful and still gift Sony an unopposed launch to build up the install base.

I think MS are stuck on the path they’re on now.

The only good news for them and gamers is that people can try it on gamepass - if it’s bad they’ll just ditch it quickly and not have wasted $60 on it.

Because of that MS can get away with releasing something sub par because they can hide it behind game pass’s “budget” credentials.
 
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ArcaneNLSC

ArcaneNLSC

Member
ToadMan said:
To fix Halo’s problems as they were shown would take at least a year. It might even be necessary to scrap it and start again if they’re problems in the engine that need a rewrite.

If they launch without Halo, and nothing equivalent to replace it (I could only imagine a gears 6 carrying it - I don’t think a forza would be enough) then the Xsex will be DOA.

By the time Halo turns up to sell the Xsex, PS5 will be 10 or 20 millions ahead, everyone will be playing the games there and the need for Xsex - especially with gamepass which has weakened that need - will be all but gone.

Actually the only option would be to pull the whole console from launch. But the bad publicity from doing that would be awful and still gift Sony an unopposed launch to build up the install base.

I think MS are stuck on the path they’re on now.

The only good news for them and gamers is that people can try it on gamepass - if it’s bad they’ll just ditch it quickly and not have wasted $60 on it.

Because of that MS can get away with releasing something sub par because they can hide it behind game pass’s “budget” credentials.
Click to expand...

I wonder if they regret moving from Unreal Engine (if the rumor was true) to create slipspace
 
Killer Sakoman

Killer Sakoman

Member
BGs said:
Sorry, but after the unsuccessful conversations with the staff that have finally been left in the "air" with no response and no practical solution, I am not going to make any more statements of this type about any hardware until things change.

If they want serious information, the informant must be protected. If the messenger is not adequately protected, the messenger will not deal more cards. And sorry, it's nothing personal. So I will not delve into past topics or add new information (which on the other hand is obvious information for everyone who wants to "see").

In any case, out of respect for all those who have supported me and by way of summary, my thinking today about efficiency remains the same as always. Nothing has changed in general.

Of course, I will take the opportunity to add a personal opinion. It would be better if people were not naive thinking that Halo faithfully represents the capabilities of the XSX. Nope. The possible technical / artistic disappointments of Halo are not the fault of the hardware. XSX can do things like HB2. The problem is "other". Few studios can afford to invest in the best story, the best technical section, the best gameplay, the best advertising, ... all in the same pack. That is a privilege only available to a few.

The only failure is to sell an expectation and go out to an event with a material that you know does not meet those generated expectations. That is the MS error. It is not the fault of the hardware capabilities. I think everything MS has gained over the past presentations has been lost in this last presentation. You know that I have been very critical of Sony's presentations, but this time they have put Sony on a tray. MS is making the mistakes that Sony made with PS3.

And Sony still has three "big" events left (not two).

Take this long message as an exception. I start vacation. Happy holidays everyone.

Sorry, before I leave today...

giphy.gif

giphy.gif
Click to expand...
I think everyone knows XSX is more capable than Halo infinate. Well if Xone X can run RDR2 than offcourse XsX can do better. I am sure we are going to see Shadow Worrior 3 on XSX and that game is real next gen.

However, I am wondering why microsoft cannot invest in Halo? A game that sells 10 million+ units with microtransactions. Also a AAAA experience can sell alot of gamepass. I work in a corporate and I might know the answer ( which is our ebery day panic) but I don't know how technology companies work and if same applies there.
 
zaitsu

zaitsu

Banned
Killer Sakoman said:
I think everyone knows XSX is more capable than Halo infinate. Well if Xone X can run RDR2 than offcourse XsX can do better. I am sure we are going to see Shadow Worrior 3 on XSX and that game is real next gen.

However, I am wondering why microsoft cannot invest in Halo? A game that sells 10 million+ units with microtransactions. Also a AAAA experience can sell alot of gamepass. I work in a corporate and I might know the answer ( which is our ebery day panic) but I don't know how technology companies work and if same applies there.
Click to expand...
They have invested 500 mil, isnt this enough ?
 
thebigmanjosh

thebigmanjosh

Member
PaintTinJr said:
I think that is actually BCn textures looking worse when using RDO as part of Bcpack compression, or a combined detail loss from VRS and Bcpack together, and made worse by minification - and possibly a lack anisotropic filtering, or not custom tweaking the filtering for the new BCpack texturing.
Click to expand...

If that were the case then this issue would be present across the entire scene, but it’s not. This artifacting is 100% the result of poor VRS implementation.
 
MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
PaintTinJr said:
I think that is actually BCn textures looking worse when using RDO as part of Bcpack compression, or a combined detail loss from VRS and Bcpack together, and made worse by minification - and possibly a lack anisotropic filtering, or not custom tweaking the filtering for the new BCpack texturing.
Click to expand...

The last time I've seen something like that was in really really old games.

thebigmanjosh said:
If that were the case then this issue would be present across the entire scene, but it’s not. This artifacting is 100% the result of poor VRS implementation.
Click to expand...

Do you have any idea how difficult VRS is to implement? I tried to learn about the tech but some parts seen a bit tricky to me.
 
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Hendrick's

Hendrick's

If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Killer Sakoman said:
I think everyone knows XSX is more capable than Halo infinate. Well if Xone X can run RDR2 than offcourse XsX can do better. I am sure we are going to see Shadow Worrior 3 on XSX and that game is real next gen.

However, I am wondering why microsoft cannot invest in Halo? A game that sells 10 million+ units with microtransactions. Also a AAAA experience can sell alot of gamepass. I work in a corporate and I might know the answer ( which is our ebery day panic) but I don't know how technology companies work and if same applies there.
Click to expand...
I honestly think the answer is Bonnie Ross is a fraud, and Phil should have stepped in and removed her years ago, despite the optics of it.
 
ToadMan

ToadMan

Member
Killer Sakoman said:
Just because Microsoft is heading somewhere does not mean it will change the market. The market leaders move the direction of the market not the failures.
Movies and music are very different to gaming they are not interactive and can still produce quality content with lower budgets to be profitable in a subscription enviroment ( look at Netflix originals, all lower budgets but still produce good quality). Games are different, quality requires budget=> budget cannot survive with subscription
Click to expand...

Yeh I basically agree. I didn’t really mean to say there’s no problem with the approach MS are taking - but that’s what they’re going for.

But the part about budget = quality games isn’t always accurate, as the world’s most expensive game shows. Lighting must’ve been in the 500 mil budget somewhere...
 
PaintTinJr

PaintTinJr

Member
thebigmanjosh said:
If that were the case then this issue would be present across the entire scene, but it’s not. This artifacting is 100% the result of poor VRS implementation.
Click to expand...
Why would it? The VRS and BCn/BCpack and RDO results should all be specific to each instance of each asset - because of their orientation/position in the scene, and the order in which they were rendered. It could be as you say, but I think the texture quality is too low for it to just be a poor VRS solution on its own
 
ToadMan

ToadMan

Member
ArcaneNLSC said:
I wonder if they regret moving from Unreal Engine (if the rumor was true) to create slipspace
Click to expand...

Its a good question. I’m curious about that as well.

I wonder if we’ll ever find out.

If there is a small glimmer of hope, it’s that changes to engine to enable features can make dramatic changes to the look of a game.

But even so, 4 months from launch and still working on engine features is cutting it very fine to deliver a well tested product.
 
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