Freeman
Banned
Doesn't matter at all. If those were the numbers we got at first nothing would be different and you would be talking about increasing the clock so that they would be 12TF and 15TF.
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LucidFlux
Member
Sure it would be better than nothing. Like I said, any extra performance is welcome, but a couple of extra CU's won't turn a "very weak" system into something else. I'm also a graphic/tech whore. I've built a career on it. I've overclocked every CPU and GPU I've owned over the last 20 years. I jumped on OLED over 3 years ago. But if you were expecting these consoles to be much more than what they are then you just need to reevaluate your expectations. The fact they will be launching with better performance than 99% of PCs out there should tell you something. What exactly were you expecting?
Empire Strikes Back
Member
This. Neither power nor controllers matter right now as much as they try to market those things, it's all about the price and the games. We are in the endgame now.
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Three Jackdaws
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah this is another thing, just because the GPU on the Series X is more powerful, people seem to automatically think the PS5 GPU must be weak or something, which is absurd, I mean come on, 36 RDNA 2 CU's clocking up to 2.23 Ghz is really powerful.
I think Microsoft made it a priority to ensure there GPU would be more powerful than what would be featured on the PS5, this was pointed out by some leaks and even Phill Spencer made a comment along the lines of "we don't want be beaten on power or price again". Sony however, didn't even bother to look at what Microsoft are doing, it seems they already had a clear idea of were they wanted to go with the PS5 hardware. Both companies were guided by drastically different "principles" in designing their hardware, if you watch some of Mark Cerny's presentations, he even talks about this.
DaGwaphics
Member
That's inevitable with console. These systems will be murdered by big navi and high-end ampere, but those products will be very pricy and very power hungry. Two things that don't fit the console profile all that well.
KURDISTAN YPG
Member
I think sony will go first on price
Digital $ 450
Reg $ 499
microsoft
If theres such a thing as lockhart
299-350
regular
499
Digital $ 450
Reg $ 499
microsoft
If theres such a thing as lockhart
299-350
regular
499
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sircaw
Banned
aghh, I think your just looking for silly things now.
The tech has the most modern up to date architecture in it, big Navi is not out yet and your making issues out of nothing.
These consoles are probably 99% better than what most normal pc gamers have atm outside of enthusiasts.
Done with this convo, its kinda pointless and a waste of time.
Have a good day
JonnyMP3
Member
Yeah, as a car nut, I'm not bothered about the top end horse power anymore. But what Sony have done is to the 'transmission' to make things faster and more responsive.
xPikYx
Member
From Sony 13 to 14tf and more Ram at higher speed, even though PS4 wasn't this great piece of technology clearly pushed much more than the competitor at time and over PS3 than what PS5 is doing with PS4 and the competitors, but it is my opinion everybody may think differently from me
Freeman
Banned
Sony understands consoles and knows that it never was about Teraflops and screaming you are the most powerful.
It's all about making a machine that won't bankrupt you, is easy to produce, has a reasonable price, is easy for developers and that will get you the results you need.
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It's a reasonable point if those games are vital to you. However third-party games are where the difference in power is most likely to show up. That's the vast majority of games, so if there is a noticeable difference the tflop difference will certainly be in play again.
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Three Jackdaws
Unconfirmed Member
Adding to this, I mentioned the "principles" guiding Mark Cerny and his team when they designed the PS4, one of these was ensuring the hardware was easy for developers to use. Cerny in his Road to PS4 talk mentioned how there was an opportunity to add a RAM system which would allow over 1000 GB/s of memory bandwidth however this system would have taken a lot time for the developers to get used to and really push, going against the principles the team initially set out.
Tqaulity
Member
True, but people always forgot the most important thing: software. Even when Big Navi and Ampere are out and their specs dwarf the next gen consoles on paper, it's irrelevant because nearly every game available today is made with 1.5-1.8 TFLOP machines as the target. Jumping that up 8-10x will take YEARS for developers to fully utilize and take advantage of.
The next gen console spec will become the new baseline, not the high end Navi and Ampere GPUs. And depsite the fact that PC hardware will continue to move forward during the next console generation, developers will still not be maxing out that 10-12 TF power envelope for some time.
So the fact that there may be 30 TFLOPs GPUs on the market by the end of the next console cycle is moot. It's like having a Ferrari engine in a Camry....nice to say you have it but the engine is not being utilized to anywhere near it's potential.
In others words, hardware always moves much faster than software
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martino
Member
maybe but millions of console users not using 4k screen and more probably 1080 / 1440p pc screens will not be able to smartly use the power of their of their console.
in the end it's possible the same third party games on what is a lesser pc config on paper pushing the right settings will look better or perform better on such a screen.
pc is complex...most generalization in his case are even more faulty than usual.
this trend in a shame in the end for closed product that last 5+ years
i see the good side of it though
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FeiRR
Banned
To be honest, that's like PS+ just more expensive and with more games thrown at you whether you like them or not.
Edit: Youtube's just showed this to me, anything new?
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jimbojim
Banned
Days Gone did sold well. Surely not rekord breaking, but it did really sold well. According to Gamestat, game has over 7 mil. players to date. At least 4 mil. copies IMO
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Three Jackdaws
Unconfirmed Member
True, however this is a bit more complicated than people are making it out to be. I know the Series X will have advantages in certain areas on 3rd Party games, however I don't expect the differences to be "significant", up to the point were it would justify buying a Series X over a PS5. The power difference is smaller than we've seen on the PS4 and Xbox One and Pro and One X. We'll have to rely on good 'ol Digital Foundry with their infamous 800% zoom to find a sharper blade of grass for the Series X or some shit lol
I think the differences between the two consoles in third party games will be hard to notice and will only be visible for those looking for it, such as enthusiasts and hardcore gamers. But, the average gamers, as for what they'll notice, than significantly faster load times (1-2 seconds) will be very noticeable.
This is just speculation of course, I could be way off lol
kyliethicc
Member
Exactly. To win a race a top car needs excellent HP and torque, but also needs brakes, transmission, suspension, handling, balance, tires, light weight etc. It’s not just raw power that wins the race. It has to be usable power not wasted by a shitty transmission, bad steering or poor wheels etc.
It seems the PS5 is a powerful and balanced system that’s easy to develop games for. That’s the most important. As Hermen Hulst put it, “it has a ton of horsepower that’s very easy to unlock.” I hope that can translate to faster development for games so more games are made in the console lifecycle.
LucidFlux
Member
I think you're putting a bit too much stock into the benefits an additional 20-30% TF will bring to final image quality. It won't suddenly allow things to be possible that couldn't be done with 10-12 TF machines. In GPU limited scenarios it would mean a bit more breathing room for developers which could translate into more fps headroom, slightly higher native resolutions, or setting certain effects another notch higher. This is besides the fact that we still don't have a clear picture of how these machines will perform against PCs in multiplats and what AI upsampling will bring.
I would wager if you took a theoretical 14 TF PS5 that used its extra power to push more pixel resolution vs a 10.3TF Ps5 that used AI upsampling you may not even notice the difference.
I'm also not quite sure why you think the PS4 was a bigger leap than PS5 will be. The reason PS4 seemed to push more over its competitor was simple. They focused their efforts on creating a gaming centric device and the competition didn't. It still launched with a relatively weak CPU and a mid to high end GPU. PS5 is an evolution of this design only this time AMD has much better CPUs available. The addition of the custom I/O and SSD will bring much more to the table than a few extra TF when it comes to IQ and game design itself.
Look I get it, I would have loved to be surprised with higher numbers myself but you have to accept the reality that these are mass adoption devices and they simply can't cost as much as a top 1% PC. Also, don't let the numbers fool you. The architecture is much more important and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised what both machines will be able to accomplish.
JonnyMP3
Member
The Mad Draklor
Member
If teraflops are perfectly scaled to resolution, then you're not going to see a massive difference. And when we take pixel density into account, the difference is even smaller.
Freeman
Banned
People forget that high end GPUs of the past weren't $1000 as well. A tiny fraction of PC players will have something like that.True, but people always forgot the most important thing: software. Even when Big Navi and Ampere are out and their specs dwarf the next gen consoles on paper, it's irrelevant because nearly every game available today is made with 1.5-1.8 TFLOP machines as the target. Jumping that up 8-10x will take YEARS for developers to fully utilize and take advantage of.
The next gen console spec will become the new baseline, not the high end Navi and Ampere GPUs. And depsite the fact that PC hardware will continue to move forward during the next console generation, developers will still not be maxing out that 10-12 TF power envelope for some time.
So the fact that there may be 30 TFLOPs GPUs on the market by the end of the next console cycle is moot. It's like having a Ferrari engine in a Camry....nice to say you have it but the engine is not being utilized to anywhere near it's potential.
In others words, hardware always moves much faster than software
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Three Jackdaws
Unconfirmed Member
RGT on the PS5 spec upgrade rumours
Neo Blaster
Member
They've already being doing that this gen, they invested in more teams and resources for their studios.
Imtjnotu
Member
PS5 is how RDNA 1.5 instead of rdna 1
MasterCornholio
Member
I don't think that's the revision. Something like that would have happened along time ago if they updated it from RDNA1 to RDNA2.
Neo Blaster
Member
Oh, I'd love to see what Alex would say about PS5 hardware, sure it'd be quite entertaining.Digital Foundry for the PS5 teardown? I'm not sure about that. Can someone talk Alex in to bed and see what he knows?
Empire Strikes Back
Member
"As you can see, there's no Tensor Cores on the PS5 so you won't get DLSS 2.0 from this machine. For this, I recommend the brand new line of RTX3000 graphics cards. The price may be double of the console, but it features ray tracing."
John: But the PS5 also features ray tracing.
Alex: At 30fps, though.
/jk
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They announced today that xCloud will be available on Android smartphones and tablets on september 15th in 22 markets.
Xbox Game Pass Ultimate Delivers 100+ Games Directly to Your Mobile Device Beginning September 15 - Xbox Wire
Our vision for Project xCloud, Microsoft’s cloud gaming technology, is to give you the opportunity to play the games you want, with the people you want, anywhere you want. Since launching the public preview across North America, Europe and in South Korea, you’ve shared stories about the unique...
news.xbox.com
P.S. Oh boy, I missed 70 pages
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Neo Blaster
Member
Agreed, this is a new gen launch year and PS4 slim official price is still $299, yet sales totalled 112M. Drop the price to 199 or even 149 when PS5 price is announced and reaching PS2 benchmark could be a possibility.
3liteDragon
Member
Neo Blaster
Member
No way there are no disabled CUs, yields would be terrible. You've got to have some contingency.
MasterCornholio
Member
Alex: And the SSD doesn't help with openworld games as you can see with Halo Infinite.
John: What about Horizon Forbidden Wilds?
Alex: Um Errrr
Kidding
Anyways it's going to be interesting to see how they are going to analyze the I/O systems in these consoles.
BadBreathOfTheWild
Banned
If yields are good enough to unlock more CUs on PS5 then the same will be true of XSX. The relative gap won’t change much.
Entroyp
Member
Neo Blaster
Member
And yet PS users will eventually be able to play them...
Vaztu
Member
Still dont think they will do this. The main reason to aim for 36 CUs was for backwards compatibility, as Cerny mentioned in Road To PS5. Won't 2 more unlocked CUs thwart their plans.
Neo Blaster
Member
The difference is that Sony nurtures their studios at the same time.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
There was an article like a month ago of a Sony exec bragging about their money-hats.Well Matt said this two days ago on ResetEra
Seems to be the case as we've gotten the Avengers news regarding Spiderman being exclusive.
Imran Khan (said Sony was spending a lot of money to have a ridiculous first year for PS5) had this to say after the Spiderman being an exclusive character in the Avengers game was announced :
Seems like this is just the beginning when it comes to timed exclusives/exclusive content for the PS5.
The rumours of Final Fantasy 16 being exclusive to PS5 for a while may be true after all.
Matt's just a dude repeating stuff lol
Red_Driver85
Member
There is no point in measuring teraflops. There are more than enough of them on both consoles, seriously. I once saw somewhere, hardly remember who exactly and his nickname, but it was when the very first rumors went that Cerny wanted a very high clock frequency for the GPU (then there were leaks about engineering samples). So, someone wrote there, the one who started a rumor about the frequency, that the videochip of the new Sony's console will surpass the PS4 Pro in raw performance, at least 3 times. The rumours about frequencies have been confirmed, as we can all see now. And seeing how much RDNA is superior to GCN in PC space, I have no doubt at all that the PS5 will shine with incredible graphics, especially against the background of what Sony's internal studios have done for the really weak PS4.
ToadMan
Member
I think the whole idea is a non starter.
This would change the power requirements of the SoC to make use of 2 extra CUs each clock tick.
For PS5 that would mean changes to cooling, to smart shift and to the SoC activity monitoring (on the assumption that Sony wouldn’t also reduce the gpu max clock speed - i.e. just making their gpu ~7% wider)
I don’t think Sony does something like that now, nevermind the implications to price of selecting higher quality silicon and the attendant increased wastage at a time when they just said they’re doubling production.
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FeiRR
Banned
Seems so. And in relation to what people have been discussing lately on merging of services:
xPikYx
Member
I would like to start by saying I'm not a great fun of 4k at all cost, I believe it is at the moment too much costly for real benefits, so companies are going in tge wr9ng direction just by pushing this narrative of 4k60fps or even 8k (EIGHTKEY lol). For me the right spot of this generation is 1440p with a good upscaling technology (DLSS like for example), even going towards 1080p to push tge boundaries at tge end of the lifecycle. Consoles are closed box, you can push the narrative you want, the more time passes the more you need to reduce to achieve better results, the most common practice is going from 60fps games to 30fos games.
Architectural improvements are welcomed as well as obvious, 10tf are mid to low GPU compute power in 2020, in 2022/2023 we gonna have MCM GPU design, the difference might be huge just in a couple of years
LED Guy?
Banned
Guys, I have a feeling that Xbox is kinda ruining gaming, I mean, their push for Game Pass and xCloud and all that are all “good” on the surface, but their downsides and cons are way more negative than y’all think.
Just look at fucking Halo Infinite, now it’s a “Games as a Service” type game with bad graphics (oh hey it’s 120 FPS BS excuse) and it having F2P online modes is the worst bad news you can have.
Releasing your main 1st-party games on Game Pass (((DAY ONE))) will make MS’s developers complacent and lets them release their games and can give them an excuse like “BUT HEY IT IS ON GAME PASS DAY ONE” and that shit is bad, very bad!
Now we’re hearing Halo Infinite is a 10-year-span game and it’s very shitty to be honest.
Just look at fucking Halo Infinite, now it’s a “Games as a Service” type game with bad graphics (oh hey it’s 120 FPS BS excuse) and it having F2P online modes is the worst bad news you can have.
Releasing your main 1st-party games on Game Pass (((DAY ONE))) will make MS’s developers complacent and lets them release their games and can give them an excuse like “BUT HEY IT IS ON GAME PASS DAY ONE” and that shit is bad, very bad!
Now we’re hearing Halo Infinite is a 10-year-span game and it’s very shitty to be honest.
Investor9872
Member
Nothing new. But I'm exited about the prospect of playing games on the move, especially rpgs. The main question for me is how responsive will the controls be? Platform games and fps need low latency for the controls to work well. I also hope Sony will be doing something similar to this, and will allow us to play PS5 games on our mobile and tablet devices with better, tighter controls then they are now.
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IkarugaDE
Member
Definitely. Furthermore, USB-C is the new standard and will be more and more in the future. It has some big advantages in power and speed for the connected devices. You can connect nearly all to a single usb-c, from SSDs and HDDs (without the need of an additional ac adapter) to AUX, videoconnectors, RJ45 ports, etc. Only question is what Sony wants to support.
jose4gg
Member
One more time... We can disable CU by software... That's not what Cerny said about BC and PS5...
WelshBluebird
Member
They already have PlayStation Now, although it doesn't have a mobile app yet (I think it used to that was just for Xperia phones, but not anymore).
They also already have Remote Play, which I would assume will be continued with the PS5.
kyliethicc
Member
Interesting. So do you think the PS5 camera will use a USB-C on the back and the next PSVR headset will use the USB-C on the front? (I know the current PSVR headset uses a USB-A, which is why I assume there’s one on the front of the PS5.)Definitely. Furthermore, USB-C is the new standard and will be more and more in the future. It has some big advantages in power and speed for the connected devices. You can connect nearly all to a single usb-c, from SSDs and HDDs (without the need of an additional ac adapter) to AUX, videoconnectors, RJ45 ports, etc. Only question is what Sony wants to support.
I hope there are 2 USB-C and 2 USB-A, with 1 of each on the front and 1 of each on the back.
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