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120Hz Next-Gen Gaming: All PS5 / Xbox Series X Games Announced + Best HDMI 2.1 Displays! ( Digital Foundry)
- Thread starter onQ123
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Kuranghi
Member
Those 8.33ms frametimes are going give such an amazing feeling to your average joe... if they run their TV in game mode and turn off all the picture enhancements that add input lag, so no worries there right? 
I doubt most people notice a major difference between 30 and 60 due to this.
And 120hz is going to be non-exsistent on most TVs anyway, at least 75% of sales I saw were 60hz panels (This is my rough figure from 3 years of TV sales in the UK, going by mine and 6 other reps figures, I'm reaching out to someone who is working for one of the big 4 brands right now for super recent information and will update if it contradicts my figures), so even if we say that most in-the-know people would buy online (I dont necessarily think this is true because they are likely to want to see it in person first imo) and its more like 65% thats still insane because a lot of people will be on 1080p TVs still.
So the amount of people that have 120hz is so low I can't see them spending a lot of time on this stuff, I reckon the game will be fluctuating like mad from 60-120hz and feel a bit unstable. G-Sync/FreeSync should fix that, within a certain fps range anyway.
My advice for an HDMI 2.1 OLED displays is to wait until Sony bring out more sets 2021, rather than buy one of the LGs. If you want an LCD then I'd also wait til 2021 since basically all 2020 sets from the big 4 brands are a downgrade in many ways over the 2019 sets. This is like OLED again, best to wait for a few years until the teething issues are sorted out, VRR is better and QMS is supported.
update - Colleague says ~70% of panels sold are 60hz for LG, probably a bit higher for Samsung and a bit lower for Sony.
I doubt most people notice a major difference between 30 and 60 due to this.And 120hz is going to be non-exsistent on most TVs anyway, at least 75% of sales I saw were 60hz panels (This is my rough figure from 3 years of TV sales in the UK, going by mine and 6 other reps figures, I'm reaching out to someone who is working for one of the big 4 brands right now for super recent information and will update if it contradicts my figures), so even if we say that most in-the-know people would buy online (I dont necessarily think this is true because they are likely to want to see it in person first imo) and its more like 65% thats still insane because a lot of people will be on 1080p TVs still.
So the amount of people that have 120hz is so low I can't see them spending a lot of time on this stuff, I reckon the game will be fluctuating like mad from 60-120hz and feel a bit unstable. G-Sync/FreeSync should fix that, within a certain fps range anyway.
My advice for an HDMI 2.1 OLED displays is to wait until Sony bring out more sets 2021, rather than buy one of the LGs. If you want an LCD then I'd also wait til 2021 since basically all 2020 sets from the big 4 brands are a downgrade in many ways over the 2019 sets. This is like OLED again, best to wait for a few years until the teething issues are sorted out, VRR is better and QMS is supported.
update - Colleague says ~70% of panels sold are 60hz for LG, probably a bit higher for Samsung and a bit lower for Sony.
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steve_o_3000
Member
I got a C9 and I love it. I can’t wait to hook up the new consoles.
Imtjnotu
Member
Oled >>>>>> LCD peasants
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
It's a clever ploy by MS to divert criticism from Halo's lacklustre visuals: "120 Hz makes gives you an advantage in online games!" And Digital Foundry is only too happy to broadcast this idea to a larger audience, in particular at a time when there's only one confirmed 120 Hz game for the PS5.
And I couldn't help but laugh when I saw Orphan of the Machine propping up in DF's video.
And I couldn't help but laugh when I saw Orphan of the Machine propping up in DF's video.
SliChillax
Member
Cant watch the video, has the PS5 been confirmed to use an HDMI 2.1 port?
Once you go OLED ... you can't downgrade to LCD
I think that's a given ... due to the following FACT
boys have a penis
girls have a vagina
girls have a vagina
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Under 7.2ms in the 120hz modes on the X900H
Imtjnotu
Member
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Very nice TV for the money. Wish it was a little brighter overall but its still a nice HDR set.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
120hz is the new narrative, eh?
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Don't think I've ever seen or played anything 120 fps on PC.
60 fps is pretty smooth on consoles on TV.
I'll have to judge 120 vs 60 when 120 hz tvs come out and Costco r Best Buy have them on display. Will be tricky since tvs now have their own version of Motion Plus, so who knows how good 120 is vs. Motion Plus.
These DF videos make it look large as they are comparing slo-mo. Which in reality might now be a big difference for most people.
60 fps is pretty smooth on consoles on TV.
I'll have to judge 120 vs 60 when 120 hz tvs come out and Costco r Best Buy have them on display. Will be tricky since tvs now have their own version of Motion Plus, so who knows how good 120 is vs. Motion Plus.
These DF videos make it look large as they are comparing slo-mo. Which in reality might now be a big difference for most people.
GHG
Gold Member
But its not.
Very few games will support it and very few people will have capable TV's.
The vast majority of people who care about high refresh rate gaming are already on the PC.
While I think it's admirable that they are highlighting it, it's a strange thing to focus on.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
I have it and find it to be very bright not as bright as my one of my other TV's but bright.
Much brighter than the OLED in the room as well.
GHG
Gold Member
Yeh it's quite jarring going from 120 down to 60, nevermind 120 to 30.
But as long as the framepacing is stable, it's nothing that you can't adjust to after a several minutes (dependant on the type of game).
Quixz
Member
Jigga117
Member
Those 8.33ms frametimes are going give such an amazing feeling to your average joe... if they run their TV in game mode and turn off all the picture enhancements that add input lag, so no worries there right?
And 120hz is going to be non-exsistent on most TVs anyway, at least 75% of sales I saw were 60hz panels (This is my rough figure from 3 years of TV sales in the UK, going by mine and 6 other reps figures, I'm reaching out to someone who is working for one of the big 4 brands right now for super recent information and will update if it contradicts my figures), so even if we say that most in-the-know people would buy online (I dont necessarily think this is true because they are likely to want to see it in person first imo) and its more like 65% thats still insane because a lot of people will be on 1080p TVs still.
So the amount of people that have 120hz is so low I can't see them spending a lot of time on this stuff, I reckon the game will be fluctuating like mad from 60-120hz and feel a bit unstable. G-Sync/FreeSync should fix that, within a certain fps range anyway.
My advice for an HDMI 2.1 OLED displays is to wait until Sony bring out more sets 2021, rather than buy one of the LGs. If you want an LCD then I'd also wait til 2021 since basically all 2020 sets from the big 4 brands are a downgrade in many ways over the 2019 sets. This is like OLED again, best to wait for a few years until the teething issues are sorted out, VRR is better and QMS is supported.
Why? What exactly is Sony going to do different that isn't already been done for 2 years with LG. LG makes the panels for all OLED displays. They are the only manufacture on the market that offer OLED models with 4 HDMI 2.1 ports. they offer the most features with HDMI 2.1 in last year and current year models. VRR is a standard HDMI 2.1 feature and has been utilized frequently with Xbox One X, S and PC users today. No "teething" needs to be sorted out and Sony isn't the all be end all to show that when it is 2020 and they only offered one model that has 2.1 ports and they are coming out with a console this year. Doesn't inspire confidence to want to wait on Sony.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
It is brighter then my 77" C9 but I can tell it does not hit 1000+nits. This cheaper Hisense H9 had much more pop in HDR
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
that's the loophole
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
It is brighter than the Hisense H8 and 6 Series TCL we have but not as bright as my Z9D.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I was quite impressed with the H9 but its firmware was fairly buggy yet so returned it.
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TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
xbox will be kick starting it with halo and gears, and ori and who knows what else, so you can say whatever you want, but...
also I have to remind you that eventhough this generation was cpu starved, all major games (cod, battlefield, fifa, nba, etc) strived to run at the highest possible framerate
and these games are what the majority plays, what we call "dem' casuals", sooo...
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GHG
Gold Member
2 years into the generation you'll be lucky to have a consistent stream of 60fps releases, nevermind 120fps.
But its nice to dream. This song and dance happens at the start of every generation before the 30fps reality sets in.
Calverz
Gold Member
I cant help but laugh at sony fanboy comments like this. Like there is a big conspiracy going on. Hillarious
CrysisFreak
Banned
One hundred and twenty framez per second baby.
We have 8 milliseconds to render those sick games like Orphan of the Machine (which is so demanding it does not even run on PS5 lmao)
gg
We have 8 milliseconds to render those sick games like Orphan of the Machine (which is so demanding it does not even run on PS5 lmao)
gg
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
This is coming too
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
you missed my point about the mainstream games that appeal to casuals (and bring the dough) like cod, battlefied, all the sport games, even f2p games like fortnite,apex legends, warzone, etc.
all these games, according to your point of view should have stuck to 30fps for the extra eye candy.
it seems people responsible for those, and their success, have different opinions than yours.
Ovech-King
Gold Member
GHG
Gold Member
Those are competitive multiplayer games and those games will always target 60fps. For single player games, not so much.
I think the 120hz modes will likely disappear the moment cross gen games do.
For example if a next gen game targets 30fps there's a huge delta between that and 120fps.
RasAlGhoul
Member
How does it hold up in a dark room? Am thinking of getting one to replace my LG B6 due to the 30fps stutter.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Dark room is amazing performance its perfect for that.
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
It will be a tad bit lower at 4K/120.
Reindeer
Member
Stop looking at everything with fanboy lense, Microsoft been talking about 120fps ever since they announced Series X and DF been talking about hdmi 2.1 and 120hz for a while now.
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GHG
Gold Member
Ok let's talk again in 2-3 years.
Meanwhile I'm enjoying steady 120hz gaming in every game I please today.
It's always funny that when some of you feel slighted it must be some console wars shit. Have fun scraping the barrel.
Rikkori
Member
Meh. Got the option for 120hz now and still play at 4k60hz instead 99% of the time. Like
Kuranghi
points out, most people don't even care enough to put the TV in game mode - something that has far greater impact than 120 fps. For consoles this will not move the needle at all outside of a few hardcore players, maybe.
Kuranghi
points out, most people don't even care enough to put the TV in game mode - something that has far greater impact than 120 fps. For consoles this will not move the needle at all outside of a few hardcore players, maybe.
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
GHG
Gold Member
Show me where I advocate for it.
I'm realistic about what consoles are about. Buying a console with the mindset of being able to game at 120hz consistently throughout the generation (in a wide range of titles) is a fools game.
This is predominantly early gen marketing fluff, much like the message was "1080p/60fps" at the start of last gen. Its even more ridiculous this time around considering most people don't have capable displays.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
skneogaf
Member
The majority of TVs will be 120hz in the future as will monitors due to having hdmi 2.1 so even though the invading fanatics are trying to bad mouth 120hz it will be as normal as hdr or 4k on TVs going forward.
Variable refresh rate is part of hdmi 2.1 too so options for unlocking frame rate will be a thing so games that can do more than 60 but not a minimum of 120 could benefit.
Embrace the future of TVs or the past of gaming monitors, however you see it.
Variable refresh rate is part of hdmi 2.1 too so options for unlocking frame rate will be a thing so games that can do more than 60 but not a minimum of 120 could benefit.
Embrace the future of TVs or the past of gaming monitors, however you see it.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I would not say that the fanatics are the one cautious about consoles and the need or capability to run 4k@120 FPS (compared to 1080p@30 FP we are talking about over 16x the power needed to render the same exact image without any other improvements... and the people questioning this being a must have for “most” gamers are the few fanatics? Sounds like the opposite is true sorry).