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[Krisprolls]

It’s like they don’t understand that selling consoles will increase the chance the the consumers will subscribe to their game pass and xcloud.

The problem is they want Gamepass on every platform, so they can't really push for next gen exclusives, it doesn't fit. AAA next gen exclusives would be too expansive for Gamepass anyway. But without next gen exclusives, the Xbox ecosystem is a lot less attractive, especially compared to PS5, because it's a lot harder to push visuals.

What they want to do probably fit casual gamers more than hardcore gamers. Except it wasn't what Xbox was about until now. It doesn't fit the power narrative either, which doesn't stop them from pushing it simultaneously in their communication.

I think the strategy is too confusing, especially when you start with a very small market share like they do. They're in danger of losing both hardcore and casual gamers.

 

[lastmessiah]

In a way, I admire the desire to unify the console, PC, and mobile markets under one gaming umbrella. However, I don't know if you're supposed to say this out loud, when you are clearly still selling consoles. It somewhat undercuts that message. I suppose you have to promote both the cloud and console aspects of the department, but you can promote the cloud without implying premature defeat of the console.

He's not implying defeat. If people want to buy an XSX they will, regardless of what NeoGAF thinks Phil meant when he said some thing one day. Most people who buy consoles probably don't even know who Phil Spencer is.

 

[Warnen]

Going by Vawn’s dumb fuck logic Samsung should get out of the phone bussness becuase they don’t sell any many as Apple, or Sony shouldn’t make a tv because Samsung sells more.

can’t comprehend selling stuff isn’t like baseball, there can be many winners lol

 

[lastmessiah]

The problem is they want Gamepass on every platform, so they can't really push for next gen exclusives, it doesn't fit. AAA next gen exclusives would be too expansive for Gamepass anyway. But without next gen exclusives, the Xbox ecosystem is a lot less attractive, especially compared to PS5, because it's a lot harder to push visuals.

What they want to do probably fit casual gamers more than hardcore gamers. Except it wasn't what Xbox was about until now. It doesn't fit the power narrative either, which doesn't stop them from pushing it simultaneously in their communication.

I think the strategy is too confusing, especially when you start with a very small market share like they do. They're in danger of losing both hardcore and casual gamers.

"Hardcore" gamers do not prioritize visuals over gameplay.

 

[DarkMage619]

This is kind of the part giving me pause. Surely if you tie the service to the console, then both are bolstered. They reinforce each other more easily that way.

Gamers and film/TV buffs may intersect one and the same (obviously), but a single person can still view the two realms differently. Film and TV have been hardware-agnostic for decades, same as music. On the other hand, gaming software is still mostly hardware-bound; you need a certain console to play certain types of games. I think most console gamers are going to think the same of gaming services for a while so there's a chance they are pushing Gamepass as a hardware-agnostic game service defined through the Xbox console brand too early. Maybe half a decade too early, in fact, going by how long it took for digital game sales to go mainstream compared to when MS were trying to push that with XBO (2013 vs. 2018, roughly 5 years).

Guess we'll find out soon where MS are going with this but at the very least it doesn't seem like the sort of thing a company seeking to remain a main platform holder would be doing. There's even some historical precedent here; SEGA, SNK, NEC, 3DO etc....when these companies started somewhat more heavily pushing their games to other platforms (SEGA starting SEGASoft and publishing Saturn games on PC, SNK publishing Neo-Geo games on SNES/MegaDrive and then PS1/Saturn/3DO, etc.)...not too far later they would transition to third-party.

We could be witnessing that with MS right now and I wouldn't be too surprised if they do in fact go third-party within the next 3-5 years, but in their case moreso out of choice. Maybe their recent platitudes and messaging could be a result of discussions with Sony and Nintendo people towards that type of inevitable future. Just imagine how big a benefit MS would get by having Gamepass and xCloud on Sony and Nintendo devices...but that would mean them needing to give something out. Downshifting focus of Xbox as a console brand would be such a thing to scale back to make that happen.

I actually could see a 3rd-party future working brilliantly for MS; they have the internal studios (Coalition, Playground, Turn 10, Ninja Theory, Initiative etc.), they have a service platform to give value benefit to those games, they already have successful 3rd-party ventures on other platforms (Minecraft, Sea of Thieves, Grounded potentially), and they have more money than any other company in gaming except Google (who isn't taken seriously among the core gaming market anyway) and arguably Apple (same).

As a 3rd-party they could definitely be massive, potentially moreso than EA, Ubisoft, even Rockstar. The question is how will they manage this type of transition and how gracefully will it be for those of us in the Xbox community. That's a key component, and a lot of it is going to rest on how they handle Series X (and Series S).

Is there more money in publishing games on PS5/Switch than their own platform? On platforms they don't own they'd have to pay 30% of what's made. Plus they'd lose any money from 3rd parties too. That's lots of cost just to be PS5 and Switch. I think their current strat could use better marketing and more focus on why XSX is the best place to play. I prefer they keep making hardware and games.

 

[Krisprolls]

"Hardcore" gamers do not prioritize visuals over gameplay.

They want both. I'm talking about all those people buying more than a few games per year. Maybe the word hardcore is not the good one. Core gamers maybe. Regular gamers.

 

[H-I-M]

They know that. This is their public face. Microsoft can no longer say they want to sell the most hardware because it looks like a failure when it doesn't succeed.

This way, they can have it both ways, pretend to not care about sales and then double back to importance if sales do well.

Genius strategy for Team Green to satisfy their base.

I like this user, he sees through Phil's BS.

 

[Klayzer]

The problem is they want Gamepass on every platform, so they can't really push for next gen exclusives, it doesn't fit. AAA next gen exclusives would be too expansive for Gamepass anyway. But without next gen exclusives, the Xbox ecosystem is a lot less attractive, especially compared to PS5.

What they want to do probably fit casual gamers more than hardcore gamers. Except it wasn't what Xbox was about until now. It doesn't fit the power narrative either, which doesn't stop them from pushing it simultaneously.

I think the strategy is too confusing, especially when you start with a very small market share like they do. They're in danger of losing both hardcore and casual gamers.

Great post. There is danger that the hardcore base could leave if the casuals are put first. Casual gamers are where the big money is at. I just wouldn't bet my whole strategy on them. They're just to finicky to trust.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Great mindset if you want to lose a generation

 

[lastmessiah]

Going by Vawn’s dumb fuck logic Samsung should get out of the phone bussness becuase they don’t sell any many as Apple, or Sony shouldn’t make a tv because Samsung sells more.

can’t comprehend selling stuff isn’t like baseball, there can be many winners lol

The only reason he bothers with this stupid argument is because he knows MS is a big threat to Sony's "dominance".

 

[Warnen]

The only reason he bothers with this stupid argument is because he knows MS is a big threat to Sony's "dominance".

Some people get so fanatical about a company it makes a person that doesn’t own an Xbox, actively dislike game pass on pc, won’t be buying a new Xbox series X and will be buying a PS5 in the future into a Xbot to them.

The mental gymnastics these people have to take is amazing to me sometimes.

 

[Hendrick's]

Great mindset if you want to lose a generation

Can't lose a generation if there isn't one.

 

[Grinchy]

Wouldn't any 3rd parties who didn't plan on giving their game to game pass for a massively reduced cut have an issue with MS having less console owners out there to buy the game they spent a bunch of man hours porting to the XSX?

It's like they are begging big 3rd parties to see them as an afterthought.

 

[pixelation]

 

[Nikana]

This makes no sense. If you sell more consoles, you sell more software. If you have better games, and those games go on sale, you increase attach ratio.

Attach ratio is poor on Xbox, but it’s not poor on PS4 nor Switch. Which does mean that attach ratio could go higher on Xbox.

PlayStation and Nintendo are posting record revenues. Not sure about Xbox? Either way, the point is that Xbox not doing better isn’t an industry problem, it’s a Xbox problem.

I never said if you don't sell more consoles you won't sell more software. I also never said any of the attach rates are poor for any of the major publishers. More customers increases your software sales but that's dictated by the attach rate.

Your attach rate dictates your average consumer spend and your ROI and the attach rate has not gone up compared to Sony's past in any significant manner.

The attach rate for the PS4 is just under 10 which is still lower than the PS2 and likely will not surpass it. It has surpassed PS3 which is explained by the amount of hardware sold.

Sony, like every other publisher has been increasing their revenue due to DLC and MT. Their financials prove this.

This is why you are seeing all the moves everyone in the industry is making. People aren't buying more games, the attach rate proves this but they are spending more on the games they already own.

It will continue to work for Sony but there's a reason they too are looking into PC ports with Horizon. They are looking for more sources of revenue with PC and stuff like PS Now.

Also it's not poor on Xbox at all. It's around 6.5 which is good for their install base. And is only slightly behind Xbox 360 at 7.5 which is their biggest install base. It's a good attach rate but it's not stellar. Increasing the amount of boxes sold only slightly increases the attach rate if you look at the history of attach rates.

Just like Sony, Microosft started looking at ways to increase this which is where the Kinect and Game Pass have come into play. They are looking for ways to get their software revenue up without trying to simply sell it at $60 because history has shown that there's a ceiling for such consumers.

 

[FranXico]

How does one become a "member" of Xbox?

What do I have to do?

Subscribe.

 

[xiseerht]

Sounds pretty clear cut too me. If MS truly cared about the fan and media driven console war. They never would have allowed their games on PC. Gamestreaming would not be pushed on All Android devices.

 

[onQ123]

Wouldn't any 3rd parties who didn't plan on giving their game to game pass for a massively reduced cut have an issue with MS having less console owners out there to buy the game they spent a bunch of man hours porting to the XSX?

It's like they are begging big 3rd parties to see them as an afterthought.

And that's why they are not spending man hours making Xbox SX games & will only optimize Xbox One & PC games for Xbox SX.

Microsoft has been honest the whole time about what they are doing but people don't seem to get it.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I never said if you don't sell more consoles you won't sell more software. I also never said any of the attach rates are poor for any of the major publishers. More customers increases your software sales but that's dictated by the attach rate.

Your attach rate dictates your average consumer spend and your ROI and the attach rate has not gone up compared to Sony's past in any significant manner.

The attach rate for the PS4 is just under 10 which is still lower than the PS2 and likely will not surpass it. It has surpassed PS3 which is explained by the amount of hardware sold.

Sony, like every other publisher has been increasing their revenue due to DLC and MT. Their financials prove this.

This is why you are seeing all the moves everyone in the industry is making. People aren't buying more games, the attach rate proves this but they are spending more on the games they already own.

It will continue to work for Sony but there's a reason they too are looking into PC ports with Horizon. They are looking for more sources of revenue with PC and stuff like PS Now.

Also it's not poor on Xbox at all. It's around 6.5 which is good for their install base. And is only slightly behind Xbox 360 at 7.5 which is their biggest install base. It's a good attach rate but it's not stellar. Increasing the amount of boxes sold only slightly increases the attach rate if you look at the history of attach rates.

Just like Sony, Microsoft started looking at ways to increase this which is where the Kinect and Game Pass have come into play. They are looking for ways to get their software revenue up without trying to simply sell it at $60 because history has shown that there's a ceiling for such consumers.

More consoles doesn’t mean higher attach ratio. More software sold per console means higher attach ratio.

The PS3 had a higher attach ratio than the 360.

Your correlation between consoles sold and attach ratio is linear when it in reality it isn’t.

6.5 on Xbox 1 is... under the OG Xbox. Under the GameCube. Under the Dreamcast. Think about that.

The rest of your post, sure, people are spending more money on gaming.

 

[Klayzer]

Cool change the narrative. If Microsoft really didn't believe in generations, I seriously doubt we would have a Series X. I will do my part to make sure we continually get new Xbox hardware, but if this subscription services mandate takes off for them, the hardware days could be numbered.

All waring put aside for a moment, if Xbox does leave the hardware business, console gaming in my opinion will be a whole lot worse for it. We need these giant companies to one up each other at every turn for our hard earned money. Its not in our best interests to root for one of the three to disappear. I don't want to live in a world with either Apple or Google replaces one of the big three.

 

[Vawn]

Some people get so fanatical about a company it makes a person that doesn’t own an Xbox, actively dislike game pass on pc, won’t be buying a new Xbox series X and will be buying a PS5 in the future into a Xbot to them.

The mental gymnastics these people have to take is amazing to me sometimes.

I own both Xbox and GamePass. Try again?

 

[Warnen]

Wouldn't any 3rd parties who didn't plan on giving their game to game pass for a massively reduced cut have an issue with MS having less console owners out there to buy the game they spent a bunch of man hours porting to the XSX?

It's like they are begging big 3rd parties to see them as an afterthought.

most 3rd party games that show up on game pass are past there initial sales period, ie most likely not going to sell large amounts any more. None of these games are “given” to MS, they are paying for them. The new 3rd party games prob get a sweet deal like games that show up on PSN+ or XbL gold.

Im sure the design of the Xbox Series X hardware was made with this in mind as well, so porting from PC as easy as possible.

 

[AGRacing]

Phil is always one step ahead.

 

[Warnen]

I own both Xbox and GamePass. Try again?

Awe did you change your avatar for me? How sweet lol

 

[Klayzer]

I own both Xbox and GamePass. Try again?

If you have any issues with Xbox's game plan, you're obviously a Sony fanboy plotting their destruction. There's only a black or white opinion with some.

 

[DavidGzz]

You think Xbox players are spending more than double per unit on GamePass than PS5 players are spending? Really? Come on now.

Yes, if a game pass sub is $15 a month, That Xbox gamer would have spent more than twice as much as a PlayStation gamer in a given generation. And that's not even counting the games they buy that aren't on Game Pass.

 

[H-I-M]

If MS truly cared about the fan and media driven console war.

Phil Spencer "Just being honest" Claims Advantage over PS5

Couldn't find it posted, console war me if old... "He's just being honest, feels good after the PS5 reveal" “Just being honest, I felt good after seeing their show. I think the hardware advantages that we have built are going to show up as we’re talking more about our games and frame rates and...

www.neogaf.com

“Just being honest, I felt good after seeing their show. I think the hardware advantages that we have built are going to show up as we’re talking more about our games and frame rates and other things,”

It's funny how "Microsoft doesn't care about console war" and yet they're the only ones constantly, constantly talking about the competition (Sony).
For some weird reason I haven't seen any one from Sony's camp even bother talk about Microsoft.
Didn't an "insider" yesterday get exposed for spreading lies on the PS5 ?

But hey, if the head of Microsoft who has a long history of making empty promises and lies, says they're not "competing" with Sony, then it must be true.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Phil Spencer "Just being honest" Claims Advantage over PS5

Couldn't find it posted, console war me if old... "He's just being honest, feels good after the PS5 reveal" “Just being honest, I felt good after seeing their show. I think the hardware advantages that we have built are going to show up as we’re talking more about our games and frame rates and...

www.neogaf.com

It's funny how "Microsoft doesn't care about console war" and yet they're the only ones constantly, constantly talking about the competition (Sony).
For some weird reason I haven't seen any one from Sony's camp even bother talk about Microsoft.
Didn't an "insider" yesterday get exposed for spreading lies on the PS5 ?

But hey, if the head of Microsoft who has a long history of making empty promises and lies, says they're not "competing" with Sony, then it must be true.

Microsoft top

Sony bottom

 

[Nikana]

More consoles doesn’t mean higher attach ratio. More software sold per console means higher attach ratio.

The PS3 had a higher attach ratio than the 360.

Your correlation between consoles sold and attach ratio is linear when it in reality it isn’t.

6.5 on Xbox 1 is... under the OG Xbox. Think about that.

The rest of your post, sure, people are spending more money on gaming.

You clearly missed the point. I never said they were linear.


Attach ratios are not going up in any significant manner. An increase of 8.96 to 9.5 from PS3 to PS4 even with significantly more consoles sold is a problem. There's a ceiling that's being hit and it's like that with major publishers. All of them. Which is why you are seeing the industry trends the way they are.

Sony sells more software. Never said they didn't so your comparison of Xbox 360 to PS3 is pointless and comes off and you trying to prove some fanboy logic that nobody applied here. I even split up Sony and Microsofts numbers specifically to show that both of them are hitting their own ceilings.

 

[DonF]

Xbox sx sells half of ps5.

Phil Spencer: huzza! Success!

 

[Oppoi]

Puppet Spencer needs to have him and his team replaced by people who aren't all about marketing already.

 

[Klayzer]

Phil Spencer "Just being honest" Claims Advantage over PS5

Couldn't find it posted, console war me if old... "He's just being honest, feels good after the PS5 reveal" “Just being honest, I felt good after seeing their show. I think the hardware advantages that we have built are going to show up as we’re talking more about our games and frame rates and...

www.neogaf.com

It's funny how "Microsoft doesn't care about console war" and yet they're the only ones constantly, constantly talking about the competition (Sony).
For some weird reason I haven't seen any one from Sony's camp even bother talk about Microsoft.
Didn't an "insider" yesterday get exposed for spreading lies on the PS5 ?

But hey, if the head of Microsoft who has a long history of making empty promises and lies, says they're not "competing" with Sony, then it must be true.

I don't see why Phil needs to constantly preach their message to his fanbase. We heard it the first five hundred times. Not all Xbox fans have short attention spans or selective conviently memory lapses.

 

[MacReady13]

Admitting defeat before the generation has even started. If he doesn't have confidence in the Series X, why should we?

Just a quick edit to say, I was a massive Xbox fan. The original console was brilliant for a 1st go and the 360 is my fav console. The experiences I got from that will never be beaten. Online was brilliant. They started to falter once Kinect was released and really dropped the ball big time with Xbox one (although slightly redeemed themselves once Spencer took over and fucked off Kinect, with a refocus on the games).
I’m just over hearing about subscription services and streaming bullshit. Give us consoles and games! The ONLY reason they’re going down this path is not for innovation or for the customers. It’s just another avenue to not have to release console figures cause they’ll get trampled by Sony and Nintendo, again.

More to the point- why even release a console if he doesn’t give a fuck about console sales? Just release your fucking xcloud bullshit and save everyone that wants it the cost of buying a console or, better yet, release your subscription service on PlayStation and Switch and be done with consoles altogether.

 

[JonnyMP3]

I don't see why Phil needs to constantly preach their message to his fanbase. We heard it the first five hundred times. Not all Xbox fans have short attention spans or selective conviently memory lapses.

Brainwashing has to be continuous

 

[SlimySnake]

That would be fine if he was releasing games, but he won't have any next gen games for the next three years. So it begs the question that if you aren't in the business of selling consoles and you are not in the business of selling games, just wtf are you doing in this business.

Imagine if ea or Ubisoft had zero games coming out for the next three years. Their stocks would crash. That's what happens to companies that aren't in the business of selling consoles.

 

[Warnen]

Microsoft top

Sony bottom

well enough to take Spider-Man away from them in avenger at least. Right funny pictures lol

 

[VisualFidelity]

Good job Microsoft keep pursuading us to not buy an XSX

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Talk like that will make people skeptical about the direction of Microsoft and their confidence in the XBOX Series X. I actually talked to people who didn’t believe me when I said Microsoft’s primary focus is subscription services and software over hardware. I see what Phil is saying, but the wording kind of sounds almost like he is admitting defeat to the competition though. He’s not exactly giving compelling reasons to go out and buy an XSX.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

That would be fine if he was releasing games, but he won't have any next gen games for the next three years. So it begs the question that if you aren't in the business of selling consoles and you are not in the business of selling games, just wtf are you doing in this business.

Imagine if ea or Ubisoft had zero games coming out for the next three years. Their stocks would crash. That's what happens to companies that aren't in the business of selling consoles.

He's transformed Xbox into the business of selling and packaging services rather than games.

It's a strategy that's going to crash and burn honestly.

Really can't stand Phil. No other executive would have gone to the lengths he has to completely transform everything into a recurring IP they can milk or games as a service garbage.

 

[CrysisFreak]

The problem is they want Gamepass on every platform, so they can't really push for next gen exclusives, it doesn't fit. AAA next gen exclusives would be too expansive for Gamepass anyway. But without next gen exclusives, the Xbox ecosystem is a lot less attractive, especially compared to PS5, because it's a lot harder to push visuals.

What they want to do probably fit casual gamers more than hardcore gamers. Except it wasn't what Xbox was about until now. It doesn't fit the power narrative either, which doesn't stop them from pushing it simultaneously in their communication.

I think the strategy is too confusing, especially when you start with a very small market share like they do. They're in danger of losing both hardcore and casual gamers.

Good point.
They're trying to appease everyone and by doing that they alienate their hardcore fans who effectively buy a strong next-gen console to play mostly cross-gen games.

 

[Warnen]

The problem is they want Gamepass on every platform, so they can't really push for next gen exclusives, it doesn't fit. AAA next gen exclusives would be too expansive for Gamepass anyway. But without next gen exclusives, the Xbox ecosystem is a lot less attractive, especially compared to PS5, because it's a lot harder to push visuals.

What they want to do probably fit casual gamers more than hardcore gamers. Except it wasn't what Xbox was about until now. It doesn't fit the power narrative either, which doesn't stop them from pushing it simultaneously in their communication.

I think the strategy is too confusing, especially when you start with a very small market share like they do. They're in danger of losing both hardcore and casual gamers.

this only makes sense if you ignore every streaming services exclusives movies and tv shows.
You have to make stuff to have get people to subscribe.

 

[Shambala]

There are many like me who will only sub to gamepass when a big game hits. Like I was about to sub a month for halo now I’m not. I’ll only renew when I want to. I’m not paying for a year when I’ll barely use it

 

[DaleinCalgary]

this only makes sense if you ignore every streaming services exclusives movies and tv shows.
You have to make stuff to have get people to subscribe.

Incorrect, all you need to do is charge $180/year for gamepass subscriptions and then pay developers $180+/year to use their games. How will they make money? volume....

or wait...

 

[Gravemind]

It's not your aproach because you will never sell as may consoles as Nintendo or Sony. DOnt try to fool us, Papa Phil.

Well... Yeah? That's the whole point of why they're switching their strategy.

They realize their brand is not going to compete with Sony and Nintendo in the traditional console space on a global scale. Anybody paying attention can tell you that MS is not going to sell as many consoles as either Nintendo or Sony, and it likely wont be close. They obviously know this.

It makes sense from a business standpoint to switch the focus of their strategy to revolve around the thing that they have actually seen a lot of growth in, which is GamePass.

If they can be successful in their own right by being the leading brand in terms of subscription services and cloud gaming, then what's the problem with that?

People poke fun at them for comments like these but I believe it would actually be a lot more laughable to continue to pine for 3rd place in the traditional Nintento/Sony console strategy than to try and switch focus to be a leader in another subset of the industry.

 

[Golgo 13]

But does this approach really instill passion in your fans? I don’t think it does, somehow. That’s what Microsoft seems to be lacking — gamer mindshare, and giving your entire catalogue away for $1/month does nothing but decrease your brands perceived value. How good does Halo need to be when everyone can access it for $.99/month? How about shooting for making a game that people will LINE UP TO BUY AT FULL PRICE.

Just a thought.

 

[BootsLoader]

Another great announcement.

Ok, for real now, I think even Phil have no clue of his approach.

 

[DavidGzz]

I don't see why Phil needs to constantly preach their message to his fanbase. We heard it the first five hundred times. Not all Xbox fans have short attention spans or selective conviently memory lapses.

Imagine a world where a PR guy was interviewed more than once. Won't the same questions pop up and won't a PR dude repeat certain bits of info? It's not his fault people keep posting a new thread for every one of his interviews.

 

[FranXico]

I don't see why Phil needs to constantly preach their message to his fanbase. We heard it the first five hundred times. Not all Xbox fans have short attention spans or selective conviently memory lapses.

To be fair, he is constantly being interviewed. Demagogy needs the help of the press to spread .

 

[DavidGzz]

But does this approach really instill passion in your fans? I don’t think it does, somehow. That’s what Microsoft seems to be lacking — gamer mindshare, and giving your entire catalogue away for $1/month does nothing but decrease your brands perceived value. How good does Halo need to be when everyone can access it for $.99/month? How about shooting for making a game that people will LINE UP TO BUY AT FULL PRICE.

Just a thought.

Where are people getting it for $1 a month? Last I saw they are paying at least the price of Gold for Game Pass and I'd wager that's about 10% of the savvy people who took that deal for more than a year like I did. Unless you're on the PC beta and are paying the $5 a month which is still 5 times more than you're claiming.

 

[ItsGreat]

Nintendo did it this way when they had a dud console on their hands. They just didn't make a song and dance about it and got on with making quality stuff and selling it.

That's what Phil and Xbox should do.. leave the forecasts in the boardroom.