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[Drewpee]

I thought Phil said it won't hold back next gen ?? Was Phil wrong ? He said only fanboys say it holds back next gen ????I m confused now.i trusted phil


Here is what Phil said :

Two takeaways:

1. I agree with him and made a comment just yesterday (I think) saying that I was wrong about how games can support multiple generations. I think it is perfectly logical to assume that the scalability found on PC games could be done on consoles, but obviously that is not the case, or 343 is not skilled enough to pull it off.

2. I think this is the best evidence yet that Microsoft is ditching the Xbox One version of Halo Infinite. I am 100% on board with that decision.

 

[Javthusiast]

 

[hyperbertha]

What are you talking about? Who said anything about a split budget?

Developing two seperate versions is going to cause budget issues

 

[Agnostic2020]

This happened last gen too... why are people shocked?

Cause Phil spencer said only fanboys think last gen hardware holds next gen hardware back last month. So many xbox fans were repeating his words

 

[MrS]

McCaffrey doing McCaffrey things. Fucking moron. You can't spell ignorant without IGN. Blinded by his own fanboyism.

 

[MrMiyagi]

Pretty baffling how MS couldn't figure that out themselves. Hopefully they will turn things around but I got a feeling we might see what Series X can do somewhere in 2024, and it will be too little too late by then.

 

[cireza]

Pretty funny to read when we are going into the third generation of playing the exact same kind of games, with the same kind of game-design.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Pretty baffling how MS couldn't figure that out themselves. Hopefully they will turn things around but I got a feeling we might see what Series X can do somewhere in 2024, and it will be too little too late by then.

By that time pro consoles are out and wont mater what the base can do anymore as hardcore move on to next hardware

 

[SilentUser]

This is big. If one of the biggest Xbox fanboys can admit this, then it makes all the other fanboys look borderline insane for continuing to buy Phil's lies. People swore up and down that Sony was in the wrong for daring to believe in generations, something that has been consistent since all of us even started gaming. That never sat right with me, it's delusion at the highest level. Sony were right. Generations matter and now people will start coming round.

I'm not done. Sony were also right for betting it all on Dualsense and not going with Dualshock 4 compatibility.

Here is the catch: I'm not really sure that he truly understood that or he basically changed his opinion because of (the potential) cancellation of the Xbox One version.

If he changed his opinion and simply is being honest, kudos to him. It is not easy.

 

[Nikana]

Developing two seperate versions is going to cause budget issues

Not if you know how to budget accordingly. That's why people get paid to do it.

 

[JTCx]

I am stilling thinking this is a false narrative. Can anyone show me a game that is currently being held back by previous generation hardware? GTA V came out on 360, PS3, X1 and PS4. It was an open world cross generational title and I don't remember anyone talking about it being held back. With the XSX MS has given 3rd parties the choice on where they want to do their software. Unless someone can show where a developer was forced to make a game on old hardware this 'held back' thing IS a meme.

Before anyone talks about Halo Infinite remember that game has been in development for FIVE years. Was the XSX a complete hardware platform with mature tools that could have been developed on five years ago?

Destiny and FFXIV.

Maybe its time to put the koolaid down. Ryan did.

 

[HE1NZ]

Who cares what this guy says.

 

[Gediminas]

imagine, to be so delusional and brainwashed to think otherwise.
completely out of touch about gaming.

 

[hyperbertha]

Not if you know how to budget accordingly. That's why people get paid to do it.

I'm sorry but developing two seperate versions of games means allocating budget to a seperate version that could have been used on the main game no?

 

[FunkMiller]

I wonder when the penny will drop about the series S...

 

[hyperbertha]

I am stilling thinking this is a false narrative. Can anyone show me a game that is currently being held back by previous generation hardware? GTA V came out on 360, PS3, X1 and PS4. It was an open world cross generational title and I don't remember anyone talking about it being held back. With the XSX MS has given 3rd parties the choice on where they want to do their software. Unless someone can show where a developer was forced to make a game on old hardware this 'held back' thing IS a meme.

Before anyone talks about Halo Infinite remember that game has been in development for FIVE years. Was the XSX a complete hardware platform with mature tools that could have been developed on five years ago?

How would you know? Its simple. How would anyone be able to tell when a games features have been cut/reduced in scope? Developers aren;t going to tell anyone. It happens and nobody knows. Shadow of mordor's nemesis system was gimped on the x360/ps3.

 

[Knitted Knight]

imagine, to be so delusional and brainwashed to think otherwise.
completely out of touch about gaming.

Pretty sure he was well aware, just preferred to go along with company line. It's just expedient now to correct course. Expect more course corrections the further the ship sinks. Some hold longer than others, some are so loyal that they sink with the ship. The smart ones are chameleons - McCafrey has been on the circuit long enough to know how to navigate.

 

[Portugeezer]

When it's coming from the biggest Xbox shill, that is saying something.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I am stilling thinking this is a false narrative. Can anyone show me a game that is currently being held back by previous generation hardware? GTA V came out on 360, PS3, X1 and PS4. It was an open world cross generational title and I don't remember anyone talking about it being held back. With the XSX MS has given 3rd parties the choice on where they want to do their software. Unless someone can show where a developer was forced to make a game on old hardware this 'held back' thing IS a meme.

Before anyone talks about Halo Infinite remember that game has been in development for FIVE years. Was the XSX a complete hardware platform with mature tools that could have been developed on five years ago?

Bungie had come out and said dropping last gen was huge for the world size with RAM limitations in particular dropping. The 7th gen to 8th gen also wasn't as big of a CPU performance change as the 8th to 9th is going to be, so we'll see more of it on the CPU side here. Also saved a lot of time on cross compiling.

Seems inherently obvious to me. You have a tool that can do 100 billion things per second, and another that can do 600 billion things per second. But in designing software, you have to make sure something can run on both. The more powerful tool can obviously do anything designed for the less, but not vice versa. The fundamental scope is thus limited by the lowest common denominator, while the more powerful box can maybe throw some polish on top with resolution, filtering, easy wins for GPU effects, but the fundamental scope of it is decided by the slowest CPU it has to run on.

This isn't even considering slow rust drives that can get into the single digit MB/s on mixed file sizes.

 

[Black_Stride]

I wonder who he spoke to.
There are only 4 crossgen XGS games.

Current XGS game in the "crossgen transition":

• Halo Infinite - They def need to drop the XB1 version atleast of campagne. MP can be on the old box.
• Everwild - Maybe they are also having trouble getting the XB1 version to run?
• As Dusk Falls - I doubt the XB1 is holding this game back.
• Grounded - I imagine this started as an XB1 title outright. And they have it running on XB1 already.

And thats it.....the offering from Microsoft regarding this whole crossgen transition isnt all that high....they are still making full on nextgen titles with:

• MSFS
• Hellblade 2
• P:Mara
• Forza Motorsport
• State of Decay 3
• Fable
• Avowed

Im guessing its Halo: Infinite thats proving to be way way too hard to get running well on XB1S while also being "optimized for Series X".

That damn shitty CPU doesnt need to be living past 2020.

Third Party devs need not apply because its up to them whether their game is crossgen or not.
The Medium is already a nextgen exclusive.

 

[Warnen]

when I read this I agree but then remember Witcher 3 is on the switch....

 

[Black_Stride]

I wonder when the penny will drop about the series S...

When games run at 720p on it and it still hitches as it runs out of RAM.

 

[Entroyp]

Well duh!

 

[Agnostic2020]

I wonder when the penny will drop about the series S...

When ps5 and xsx start targeting 1440p

 

[Black_Stride]

when I read this I agree but then remember Witcher 3 is on the switch....

You expect devs to be pulling black magic stunts perpetually to get games to run on a system that didnt sell particualy well and will be dropped like a sack of bricks once the Series S price is revealed?

The Witcher and Doom ports were nothing short of blackmagic and required final boss levels of rewriting and optimization to get them to run.

 

[Nikana]

I'm sorry but developing two seperate versions of games means allocating budget to a seperate version that could have been used on the main game no?

Not necessarily. It really depends on what your goals are. I can't speak for every developer as I've only spoken to ones I've come in contact with but when it comes to multiplatform you based it on features.

If the features can be implemented without extra work you are good. If not you either cut the feature or have to add into the budget to make it work on that platform.

If you want parity between games then you have to budget accordingly to get features to work on both platforms. Your return on the platform that will take more work has to have a ROI for the extra money you need to put into it. If it doesn't you either drop the platform or the feature.

Stuff like Shadow of Mordor did this. They cut features to make it work. Same with FH2.

 

[splattered]

I wouldn't worry too much about any of this, MS has only said they will support the console for another year or two which means games ALREADY IN DEVELOPMENT close enough to release by next holiday season. They aren't going to sit and create big new AAA Xbox One games right now from scratch unless they're small titles that don't need the horsepower of next gen.

We've already seen the Xbox One platform tags disappear from Fable and others that were shown so it seems like yes, MS is going to support Xbox One for another year while they shift appropriate titles to Series X only.

Halo is obviously the elephant in the room though, as big a deal as it was supposed to be they probably have no choice cut support for XBO now and "go big" so to speak.

You can continue to support the platform with smaller games, BC, and xCloud streaming... technically that wouldn't be lying.

 

[Yoshi]

How can you say this carte blanche one way or the other? It clearly depends on the game and how cross gen is realised. surely Forza Horizon 2 (360) did not hold back Forza Horizon 2 (One), neither did Shadows of Mordor (360) hold back Shadows of Mordor (One). Of course if they develop a game that needs to run on One at 60fps and then just up the resolutions and effects for Series X, then this will not yield the optimal result for Series X. But that's not a problem inherent to cross gen, but to this particular approach to cross gen.

 

[kretos]

'We believe in generations:' PlayStation argues cross-gen games risk stifling innovation

“As we’ve said many times, with PlayStation 5 it’s a brand new generation, and we believe in generations. So we want to evolve every part of the experience. ” “In many cases, we can’t take everybody with us from previous consoles into [a next generation experience],” Lempel tells Keighley...

www.neogaf.com

Halo Infinite(cross gen) is proof of this if it actually ends up looking better than any of the games shown at the sony event, including 1st party. I have a suspicion that it will.

how the tables have turned, they were even calling Sony anti consumer and now even Halo might drop the xbox1 version

 

[jimbojim]

Cause Phil spencer said only fanboys think last gen hardware holds next gen hardware back last month. So many xbox fans were repeating his words

Yep. Sony fans are the worst kind. Because we want to see new stuff. Anti-consumer only, next-gen exclusives only. /s

 

[Warnen]

You expect devs to be pulling black magic stunts perpetually to get games to run on a system that didnt sell particualy well and will be dropped like a sack of bricks once the Series S price is revealed?

The Witcher and Doom ports were nothing short of blackmagic and required final boss levels of rewriting and optimization to get them to run.

Not at all, only MS committed to doing it for a few years. Really doubt anything but Halo and maybe 1-2 other games makes it out in that time frame. More likely they up date older games to run better on new hardware.

 

[MrMiyagi]

When ps5 and xsx start targeting 1440p

True, somehow I got a feeling Series S is canned, though. I mean we should have heard something about the thing about now, right?

We'll see where this is going but it kinda looks like MS is now second guessing they're whole next gen strategy lol.

 

[AmuroChan]

Two takeaways:

1. I agree with him and made a comment just yesterday (I think) saying that I was wrong about how games can support multiple generations. I think it is perfectly logical to assume that the scalability found on PC games could be done on consoles, but obviously that is not the case, or 343 is not skilled enough to pull it off.

If 343i isn't skilled enough to make a game that can scale across different hardware specs, perhaps they should not be in charge of MIcrosoft's flagship franchise? Halo is Microsoft's crown jewel. Wouldn't you want your best studio in charge of that IP?

 

[Mahadev]

The one advantage. The one damn advantage consoles had left over PC and Microsoft decided to give it up too. There's a reason games look this good in consoles even years after they've released, it's because devs only have one type of hardware to focus on. At this point they might as well give up on hardware and just keep game pass.

 

[Vawn]

I've been confused why people here were ever happy about this. I imagine most of us here are getting the new consoles at launch. I much rather developers concentrate on only next-gen hardware.

 

[mejin]

I wonder what is the next shit he's going to eat from MS lol

 

[Warnen]

The one advantage. The one damn advantage consoles had left over PC and Microsoft decided to give it up too. There's a reason games look this good in consoles even years after they've released, it's because devs only have one type of hardware to focus on. At this point they might as well give up on hardware and just keep game pass.

with half step consoles, performace modes, etc. That advantage died years ago.

 

[Agnostic2020]

how the tables have turned, they were even calling Sony anti consumer and now even Halo might drop the xbox1 version

What a disaster their marketing for next gen has been. I m not sure how their marketing headS still have Their jobS. They keep fumbling . They started so strong in December and all of a sudden everything went south quick

 

[Dr Bass]

Except it didn't sound good on paper. Anyone who knows anything at all about computing knew it would hold back new-gen game design. The biggest factor would be the CPU. But again, this isn't hard to understand, which is why all the marketing to try to tell us otherwise was ridiculous.

 

[JonnyMP3]

IGN lost creditability years ago and they're mostly just a PR machine these days...
But it's sad when these once big massive gaming publications just lose their identity.
IGN, Gamespot, Kotaku, Polygon etc... Once trusted information sources, with good ties to developers... Are now just clickbait, sensationalist crap.

 

[Metnut]

If this is true, then Lockheart will gimp Series X’s best exclusive games
. Yikes.

 

[The Hamburglar]

Ryan, used to think you were alright but you’re too much up their arse these days mate. Even with this tweet, I suspect he already knows what’s coming and is saying it now to save face.

Can’t even ask a exec during an interview why free to play games require Gold. None of you “journalists “do.

These days? Back in 2013 he said there’s no difference between 720p and 1080p due to Xbox 1

 

[BlueXImpulse]

I wouldn't worry too much about any of this, MS has only said they will support the console for another year or two which means games ALREADY IN DEVELOPMENT close enough to release by next holiday season. They aren't going to sit and create big new AAA Xbox One games right now from scratch unless they're small titles that don't need the horsepower of next gen.

We've already seen the Xbox One platform tags disappear from Fable and others that were shown so it seems like yes, MS is going to support Xbox One for another year while they shift appropriate titles to Series X only.

Halo is obviously the elephant in the room though, as big a deal as it was supposed to be they probably have no choice cut support for XBO now and "go big" so to speak.

You can continue to support the platform with smaller games, BC, and xCloud streaming... technically that wouldn't be lying.

The only game that was announced that would be on both Xbox One and Series X was Halo Infinite. Not Medium. Not Scorn. Not Avowed. So even MS themselves realize that what Spencer was saying was nonsense. But they're trying to sell you a service so Phil said what he said.

 

[FrozenFlame]

Exclusive: A Deeper Look at the PlayStation 5

Now that the name is official, we've got more details about Sony's next-gen console—from the haptics-packed controller to UI improvements.

www.wired.com

"The SSD has me really excited," Thrush says. "You don't need to do gameplay hacks anymore to artificially slow players down—lock them behind doors, anything like that. Back in the cartridge days, games used to load instantly; we're kind of going back to what consoles used to be."

I think this is a good example of how the hardware impacts how the games are made.

 

[Self High Five]

iT's tHe SaMe aS Pc! lOok at mIn SpEc ReQuIreMeNts!"

I am stilling thinking this is a false narrative.

The PR from your preferred brand does the thinking for you.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

These days? Back in 2013 he said there’s no difference between 720p and 1080p due to Xbox 1

Really? Wow

 

[Mahadev]

with half step consoles, performace modes, etc. That advantage died years ago.

You're kind of right but the half step consoles were just glorified 4K for current gen machines, it wasn't that difficult for devs. Here we have a full generational leap where now only devs would have to upgrade the resolution but also the effects, loading times, polygon count and so on. This is reaching PC levels of bad optimization because of multiple hardware.

 

[kruis]

I am stilling thinking this is a false narrative. Can anyone show me a game that is currently being held back by previous generation hardware? GTA V came out on 360, PS3, X1 and PS4. It was an open world cross generational title and I don't remember anyone talking about it being held back. With the XSX MS has given 3rd parties the choice on where they want to do their software. Unless someone can show where a developer was forced to make a game on old hardware this 'held back' thing IS a meme.

Before anyone talks about Halo Infinite remember that game has been in development for FIVE years. Was the XSX a complete hardware platform with mature tools that could have been developed on five years ago?

The PS3 was capable of running games like The Last of Us. What would you have thought if Sony had proposed just months before the launch of the PS4 they didn't believe in generations anymore, they wanted to be more consumer friendly and that from now on any new game for the PS4 would also get a PS3 release. Do you think that such demand would not have any impact on the scope of the PS4 version of Horizon Zero Dawn if that game would also have to run on a PS3 with just 256 MB system ram and 256 video ram?

 

[Frito_Pendejo]

Man, it’s really weird seeing all the Sony dudes creating threads about Xbox lol

 

[Doncabesa]

Man, it’s really weird seeing all the Sony dudes creating threads about Xbox lol

Not like Sony is saying/doing much at the moment, must be bored.