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funking giblet
Member
Not great, not terrible
TLZ
Banned
Fake.I took this photo yesterday afternoon at the Queen Street Mall store in Brisbane at EB Games
Needs to be blurry for legitimacy.
Maybe jump while taking the picture. Or run from side to side.
I wonder what the people inside looking at you doing so would be thinking.
Something off-topic, but I want to know why games were made mandatory to install from Bluray discs to HDD last gen. The games played perfectly fine reading off of CDās, DVDās and Blurays in the preceeding generations. There werenāt many problems as such. And the improvement in loading times wasnāt noticeable with that change either.
Iām asking this because of the inconvenience of storage media getting filled and having to buy external hddās for playing games that are already stored on bluray discs.
I had to replace my stock PS4 500 GB internal HDD with a 2 TB one and get a 4 TB external as well,just because of this. Lol
*Please ignore āSSD storage and how it benefits game developmentā for this question.*
Iām specifically talking about ps4/xbone generation.
Thanks.
Iām asking this because of the inconvenience of storage media getting filled and having to buy external hddās for playing games that are already stored on bluray discs.
I had to replace my stock PS4 500 GB internal HDD with a 2 TB one and get a 4 TB external as well,just because of this. Lol
*Please ignore āSSD storage and how it benefits game developmentā for this question.*
Iām specifically talking about ps4/xbone generation.
Thanks.
I have a feeling that the split RAM configuration on both the XSX and XSS will not turn out to be a good thing.So the XSX CPU clock increase is from 6 days ago according to the Screen shot and know one noticed
HAL-01
Member
Installs were made mandatory because hdd read speeds are much faster than Blu-ray speeds, and with PS4/Xbox one games increasing in size, playing from disc wouldāve resulted in even longer loading times, and wouldāve severely limited in-game asset streaming.Something off-topic, but I want to know why games were made mandatory to install from Bluray discs to HDD last gen. The games played perfectly fine reading off of CDās, DVDās and Blurays in the preceeding generations. There werenāt many problems as such. And the improvement in loading times wasnāt noticeable with that change either.
Iām asking this because of the inconvenience of storage media getting filled and having to buy external hddās for playing games that are already stored on bluray discs.
I had to replace my stock PS4 500 GB internal HDD with a 2 TB one and get a 4 TB external as well,just because of this. Lol
*Please ignore āSSD storage and how it benefits game developmentā for this question.*
Iām specifically talking about ps4/xbone generation.
Thanks.
danielJackson
Banned
Something off-topic, but I want to know why games were made mandatory to install from Bluray discs to HDD last gen. The games played perfectly fine reading off of CDās, DVDās and Blurays in the preceeding generations. There werenāt many problems as such. And the improvement in loading times wasnāt noticeable with that change either.
Iām asking this because of the inconvenience of storage media getting filled and having to buy external hddās for playing games that are already stored on bluray discs.
I had to replace my stock PS4 500 GB internal HDD with a 2 TB one and get a 4 TB external as well,just because of this. Lol
*Please ignore āSSD storage and how it benefits game developmentā for this question.*
Iām specifically talking about ps4/xbone generation.
Thanks.
Short answer:
Seek times + data transfer rates are too slow on disc + cant install updates
Without HDD install loading times would be crazy long
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SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
I have a feeling that the split RAM configuration on both the XSX and XSS will not turn out to be a good thing.
Except it's not split
TLZ
Banned
Good post mate thanks.PS5 could be 5.14 TFLOPs in games that did not receive a Pro patch if 'Boost Mode' functionality is used.
Let me explain. On PS4 Pro, when you run a game without a Pro patch - with boost mode enabled - it simply utilizes just 2.1 TFLOPs of PS4 Pro's GPU power, not full 4.2 TFLOPs. Boost mode's 2.1 TF over base PS4's 1.84 TF is a 14% increase. And a 33% increase on the CPU side from 1.6 GHz to 2.13 GHz. CPU speed is the same even in native Pro mode.
How Boost Mode works on Pro:
When you run an unpatched game like, let's say, Until Dawn on PS4 Pro in Boost Mode, the game utilizes 18 CUs of the total 36 CUs, which runs at 911 MHz. 18 CUs at 911 MHz = 2.1 TFLOPs. This is how games in Boost Mode only utilize up to 2.1 TF on Pro.
Now assuming Sony follows the same strategy for PS5 - this exact same title when running on PS5 with boost mode enabled could again be utilizing 18 CUs of the PS5's 36 RDNA 2 CUs, and those 18 CUs will now be running at 2,230 MHz clock speed, while the CPU at 3.5 GHz. This will give unpatched games like Until Dawn a whopping 5.14 TFLOPs to play with on PS5. This alone would be a 2.8x boost over base PS4 just from the clock speed bump, without even taking RDNA 2's architectural improvements into account. Games with unlocked frame-rate should easily be able to hit over 2x the frame-rate, obviously. Games that were designed for base PS4's 1.84 TF | 176 GB/s spec.
Until Dawn also seems like a perfect candidate to test on PS5 in BC mode as it barely manages to hit consistent 30fps even on PS4 Pro. To my knowledge:
So you'll see one of the biggest improvements in this game in terms of performance when running on PS5 compared to, for e.g. like, Mad Max game which also hasn't received a Pro patch but has a 30fps cap and it already sticks to 30fps doggedly on base PS4. So you won't see much improvement in a game like Mad Max on PS5 with Boost Mode on.
- It hasn't received a Pro patch
- It is not capped at 30fps
This means in theory Until Dawn on PS5 should be a locked 60fps game without devs even having to touch a single line of code. It also seems to be predominantly GPU bound. This is how it currently runs on both PS4 consoles:
Source: VG Tech
You can see the avg. frame-rate from PS4 to Pro is a 14.59% increase which is in line with Boost Mode's 2.1 TF (14%) increase over base PS4's.
And what about the games that have already received PS4 Pro patch/support e.g. DOOM Eternal, TLOU2? How will they run on PS5 in BC? Simply put, those games should get full 10.3 TF of GPU power since both PS4 Pro and PS5 GPUs have the same amount of 36 compute units.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Road to PS5
Now, here's something to think about:
Halfway through this post, I realized something. Suppose if Cerny had gone with a higher CU count GPU for PS5 to reach the same 10.3 TF, let's say 52 CUs (same CU count as the XSX GPU) instead of 36 CUs. They'd have to set the GPU frequency around 1544 MHz. This looks nice on paper but with this configuration, BC games would have taken a big hit. How?
Actual PS5: 36 CUs @ 2230 MHz = 10.3 TF
Notional PS5: 52 CUs @ 1544 MHz = 10.3 TF
In back compat mode:
Non-PS4 Pro "unpatched" game e.g. Until Dawn running on PS5 would use 18 CUs:
18 CUs @ 2230 MHz = 5.14 TF - Until Dawn gets 5.14 TF of computational power with this config, 2.8x boost over base PS4
18 CUs @ 1544 MHz = 3.56 TF - (-31% TF reduction with this config), just 1.9x boost over base PS4
PS4 Pro "patched" game e.g. DOOM Eternal running on PS5 would use 36 CUs:
36 CUs @ 2230 MHz = 10.3 TF - DOOM Eternal gets 10.3 TF of computational power with this config, 2.45x boost over PS4 Pro
36 CUs @ 1544 MHz = 7.15 TF - (-31% TF reduction with this config), just 1.7x boost over PS4 Pro
BC could be one of the reasons why Cerny chose to go with a higher frequency GPU rather than a higher CU GPU.
What would be the difference in loading times ? A 10-15 sec difference wouldnāt matter to me so much.
zaitsu
Banned
TLZ
Banned
hemo memo
Gold Member
I took this photo yesterday afternoon at the Queen Street Mall store in Brisbane at EB Games
The image is too clean and steady. Incredible job for a gaming related phone image. Bravo.
Wasnt posting my own tweet as anything of the sort as a insider just a way for people to have a bit of understanding and not to panic about it. I also dont even see how reads as insider like at all.
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FunkMiller
Member
Tell you what, for those thinking Sony will release a console with defective chips...
...point me towards another major company that produces electronics, who have deliberately put out a product with defective parts in it...
Just one. Ever. In history.
Theyāve dropped forum million units because theyāre having trouble sourcing parts because thereās a pandemic on.
Iām dumbfounded by how many people seem to just forget or ignore that covid is a thing in all of this... and that goes for all sides.
...point me towards another major company that produces electronics, who have deliberately put out a product with defective parts in it...
Just one. Ever. In history.
Theyāve dropped forum million units because theyāre having trouble sourcing parts because thereās a pandemic on.
Iām dumbfounded by how many people seem to just forget or ignore that covid is a thing in all of this... and that goes for all sides.
ZywyPL
Banned
With Bluray discs, the capacity went up by even 10x compared to DVD (50GB vs 4.7), but the read speed not so much, it actually got even worse - X360 had 12x DVD capable of 16MB/s, while PS3's 2x BD could reach 9MB/s, so you have 5 or 10 times more storage but just half of the read speed, which was simply insufficient to read all that data on the fly straight from the BR discs, hence the PS3 needed at least partial installation of the games. PS4 and XB1 have 6x BD capable of 27MB/s which again, is still not enough to read all those 50GB discs in real time. And now the upcoming consoles will support even 100GB discs, while the read speeds will probably be 50MB/s at best.
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Empire Strikes Back
Member
You guys give too much credit for some people, they were clearly waiting for anything that could be interpreted as a bad thing to begin concern trolling.
Wednesday is going to be the end of it.
Wednesday is going to be the end of it.
PS5 could be 5.14 TFLOPs in games that did not receive a Pro patch if 'Boost Mode' functionality is used.
Let me explain. On PS4 Pro, when you run a game without a Pro patch - with boost mode enabled - it simply utilizes just 2.1 TFLOPs of PS4 Pro's GPU power, not full 4.2 TFLOPs. Boost mode's 2.1 TF over base PS4's 1.84 TF is a 14% increase. And a 33% increase on the CPU side from 1.6 GHz to 2.13 GHz. CPU speed is the same even in native Pro mode.
How Boost Mode works on Pro:
When you run an unpatched game like, let's say, Until Dawn on PS4 Pro in Boost Mode, the game utilizes 18 CUs of the total 36 CUs, which runs at 911 MHz. 18 CUs at 911 MHz = 2.1 TFLOPs. This is how games in Boost Mode only utilize up to 2.1 TF on Pro.
Now assuming Sony follows the same strategy for PS5 - this exact same title when running on PS5 with boost mode enabled could again be utilizing 18 CUs of the PS5's 36 RDNA 2 CUs, and those 18 CUs will now be running at 2,230 MHz clock speed, while the CPU at 3.5 GHz. This will give unpatched games like Until Dawn a whopping 5.14 TFLOPs to play with on PS5. This alone would be a 2.8x boost over base PS4 just from the clock speed bump, without even taking RDNA 2's architectural improvements into account. Games with unlocked frame-rate should easily be able to hit over 2x the frame-rate, obviously. Games that were designed for base PS4's 1.84 TF | 176 GB/s spec.
Until Dawn also seems like a perfect candidate to test on PS5 in BC mode as it barely manages to hit consistent 30fps even on PS4 Pro. To my knowledge:
So you'll see one of the biggest improvements in this game in terms of performance when running on PS5 compared to, for e.g. like, Mad Max game which also hasn't received a Pro patch but has a 30fps cap and it already sticks to 30fps doggedly on base PS4. So you won't see much improvement in a game like Mad Max on PS5 with Boost Mode on.
- It hasn't received a Pro patch
- It is not capped at 30fps
This means in theory Until Dawn on PS5 should be a locked 60fps game without devs even having to touch a single line of code. It also seems to be predominantly GPU bound. This is how it currently runs on both PS4 consoles:
Source: VG Tech
You can see the avg. frame-rate from PS4 to Pro is a 14.59% increase which is in line with Boost Mode's 2.1 TF (14%) increase over base PS4's.
And what about the games that have already received PS4 Pro patch/support e.g. DOOM Eternal, TLOU2? How will they run on PS5 in BC? Simply put, those games should get full 10.3 TF of GPU power since both PS4 Pro and PS5 GPUs have the same amount of 36 compute units.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Road to PS5
Now, here's something to think about:
Halfway through this post, I realized something. Suppose if Cerny had gone with a higher CU count GPU for PS5 to reach the same 10.3 TF, let's say 52 CUs (same CU count as the XSX GPU) instead of 36 CUs. They'd have to set the GPU frequency around 1544 MHz. This looks nice on paper but with this configuration, BC games would have taken a big hit. How?
Actual PS5: 36 CUs @ 2230 MHz = 10.3 TF
Notional PS5: 52 CUs @ 1544 MHz = 10.3 TF
In back compat mode:
Non-PS4 Pro "unpatched" game e.g. Until Dawn running on PS5 would use 18 CUs:
18 CUs @ 2230 MHz = 5.14 TF - Until Dawn gets 5.14 TF of computational power with this config, 2.8x boost over base PS4
18 CUs @ 1544 MHz = 3.56 TF - (-31% TF reduction with this config), just 1.9x boost over base PS4
PS4 Pro "patched" game e.g. DOOM Eternal running on PS5 would use 36 CUs:
36 CUs @ 2230 MHz = 10.3 TF - DOOM Eternal gets 10.3 TF of computational power with this config, 2.45x boost over PS4 Pro
36 CUs @ 1544 MHz = 7.15 TF - (-31% TF reduction with this config), just 1.7x boost over PS4 Pro
BC could be one of the reasons why Cerny chose to go with a higher frequency GPU rather than a higher CU GPU.
i think i understood all that...
my question is if popping a ps4 game into my ps5 will yeild loadtime improvements automatically, or do i have to hope that a game gets a specific update patch?
Kenneth Haight
Gold Member
One more sleep
From what Iāve understood so far, they wonāt run better on ps5 by default, a specific ps5 patch would be required.
Factories were re-opening in China in February - it wasn't even officially a pandemic at that stage and hadn't even (knowingly) hit Europe or the US, it was still just the 'China virus'.Tell you what, for those thinking Sony will release a console with defective chips...
...point me towards another major company that produces electronics, who have deliberately put out a product with defective parts in it...
Just one. Ever. In history.
Theyāve dropped forum million units because theyāre having trouble sourcing parts because thereās a pandemic on.
Iām dumbfounded by how many people seem to just forget or ignore that covid is a thing in all of this... and that goes for all sides.
I don't buy that a country like China known for it's unethical work practices still hasn't caught up 7 months down the line.
The only problem that continues to exist to this day is that tourism won't recover until the world is safe again. And a lot of air cargo travels in passenger airplanes so that capacity is reduced, but cargo only flights have increased. It also doesn't affect other means of transport.
ghairat
Member
The Playstation youtube is fine. Sometimes it goes low quality but it is for sure uninterrupted
J_Gamer.exe
Member
What unbelievably convenient timing once again Whether some truth or not ask why there is always something negative spread against PS5 before a big moment.
Also how are they still producing 11 million if they have such issues, 50% wasnt it, would that not mean 22 million soc were produced?
I can only imagine the articles, worry and despair if PS5 hadn't shown hardly anything running on actual hardware by now, which haven't really appeared about the XSX....
Strange really....
Whether some truth or not ask why there is always something negative spread against PS5 before a big moment.Also how are they still producing 11 million if they have such issues, 50% wasnt it, would that not mean 22 million soc were produced?
I can only imagine the articles, worry and despair if PS5 hadn't shown hardly anything running on actual hardware by now, which haven't really appeared about the XSX....
Strange really....
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mejin
Member
not just him, it's the delusion of the entire box community. They expect not one, but two fuckn miracles.
Shmunter
Member
PS5 patch will make the game a PS5 native game. Boost mode will give Moar Powah to PS4 games, including loading. Different strategy for the use of hardware.
Same concept employed on Pro for non Pro games.
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Well_Of_Souls
Member
Something off-topic, but I want to know why games were made mandatory to install from Bluray discs to HDD last gen. The games played perfectly fine reading off of CDās, DVDās and Blurays in the preceeding generations. There werenāt many problems as such. And the improvement in loading times wasnāt noticeable with that change either.
Iām asking this because of the inconvenience of storage media getting filled and having to buy external hddās for playing games that are already stored on bluray discs.
I had to replace my stock PS4 500 GB internal HDD with a 2 TB one and get a 4 TB external as well,just because of this. Lol
*Please ignore āSSD storage and how it benefits game developmentā for this question.*
Iām specifically talking about ps4/xbone generation.
Thanks.
On top of previous responses, it could also be to cut down on wear-and-tear on the disc drive too.
Empire Strikes Back
Member
It depends, some loadings are not only bandwidth bound but CPU bound and etc. I wonder how CPU bound loadings would fare on PS5... Would any processing be offloaded to the I/O coprocessors or be done on the CPU?
50% was the initial yields the article already mentions yields are getting better and stabilising.What unbelievably convenient timing once again
Also how are they still producing 11 million if they have such issues, 50% wasnt it, would that not mean 22 million soc were produced?
I can only imagine the articles, worry and despiar if PS5 hadn't shown hardly anything running on actual hardware by now, which haven't really appeared about the XSX....
Strange really....
PropellerEar
Member
Yes, you will see load time improvement if your PS4 game is installed on your PS5 SSD.
Otherwise the load time improvement wont be as big. e.g. when the game is installed to usb HDD(or SSD) connected to your PS5)
Blitzmangoman
Member
Reading through these comments reassured me. I was getting scared of getting a launch PS5. Thanks.
So just to put out the doubt that still lingers, there won't be any problems right?
So just to put out the doubt that still lingers, there won't be any problems right?
hemo memo
Gold Member
Tell you what, for those thinking Sony will release a console with defective chips...
...point me towards another major company that produces electronics, who have deliberately put out a product with defective parts in it...
Just one. Ever. In history.
Theyāve dropped forum million units because theyāre having trouble sourcing parts because thereās a pandemic on.
Iām dumbfounded by how many people seem to just forget or ignore that covid is a thing in all of this... and that goes for all sides.
Deliberately? Of course not. But with every console launch there is this valid argument that you could be the 1% who end up with a defective machine.
TLZ
Banned
PropellerEar
Member
Zen2 will fare better than Jaguar.
On the offloading to PS5 I/O co-processors... who knows?
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Agnostic2020
Member
Of course not man .lol none of sonys console has ever had any issues othrr than the normal electronic issuesReading through these comments reassured me. I was getting scared of getting a launch PS5. Thanks.
So just to put out the doubt that still lingers, there won't be any problems right?
Agnostic2020
Member
But that's with every electronics. And has nothing to do with launch . 1% of components tend to stop working after passing the test in manufacturing line .
TLZ
Banned
MastaKiiLA
Member
Sadly, I'm pretty sure this was the case. Once they went with Xbox360 as a name, they were doomed to wackiness. Lord knows which marketing genius came up with Xbox One as the successor, but things have certainly not improved from there. They should just ditch the Xbox brand altogether, like Nintendo with the NES brand. Many of us thought they would go with Ultra NES, but they went Nintendo64, and then Gamecube, and then Wii. At least there was never any confusion for gamers, parents, or retailers. PlayStation branding has been the easiest to follow, with even the PS4 Pro being easy to differentiate namewise from the base model. Series S/X doesn't really give much room for iteration, unless they want to slap a 2 at the end for the next generation. I doubt it though. Xbox2 would have sold just as well as Xbox360. If anything, gamers found "360" to be a goofier naming solution than a supposedly inferior "2".
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Tell you what, for those thinking Sony will release a console with defective chips...
...point me towards another major company that produces electronics, who have deliberately put out a product with defective parts in it...
Just one. Ever. In history.
Theyāve dropped forum million units because theyāre having trouble sourcing parts because thereās a pandemic on.
Iām dumbfounded by how many people seem to just forget or ignore that covid is a thing in all of this... and that goes for all sides.
TLZ
Banned
Aha! This is what I've predicted in an earlier post! Please be true!
Faithless83
Banned
Try 5x worse load speed. We already have pop in this gen with the games loading around 50mb/s from HDD imagine going to 10mb/s. Open world games would have been impossible and even smaller scale ones would have terrible pop in. It's not "lazy devs" it was simply not possible.
Setsuna Mudou
Member
Have you played Bloodborne? Pre patch? So now add 10-15s every time you die
Mahavastu
Member
The 10 million were until the end of december (Bloomberg), the 11 million are until the end of march
BGs
Industry Professional
The PS3 "yellow light of death" affected less than 1% of the consoles sold.
X360's "red circle of death" affecting between 25% and 50% of all X360s sold (MS did not allow for accurate accounting), but caused MS to spend $ 1 billion on repairs and forced to increase the warranty by 1 more year.
Therefore I do not think that the case of PS3 can be considered a "problem".
Likewise, the case of X360 was due to an exceptional theme due to a rather absurd story that I do not think will ever repeat itself.
EDIT. To clarify what the respective problems were, there are two stories. One (Sony) used eco-friendly soldering to lower the cost of PS3 (some of its models). The other (MS) forced its engineers to cram the circuitry into a predesigned housing to avoid possible design criticisms that occurred with the first XBOX, that is, the container was designed first and then the content was put inside (although to me this story seems implausible or absurd).
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jasondefaoite
Member
I thought the unit of measurement was turbo encabulators?
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
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