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[kyliethicc]

Normal isn't always better. It's awesome that the Xbox controllers will also work next generation. For all those who have special editions, limited editions or even home-designed controllers, the ability to use them for next-gen as well is amazing.

There's a real risk that a lot of PS5 games won't utilize the new gimmicks, thus there would be no need to exclude legacy controllers.

No, not gimmicks. Rumble was once new, no one calls it a gimmick now. And I feel sorry for Xbox gamers who have been stuck with essentially the same controller since the 360. Barely updated over time. I remember Xbox fans mocked the share button. Now they're copying Sony once again, same as with the addition of a headset jack and more.

Xbox lag behind in controller design, and still hold back the entire industry with their lack of motion or gyro sensors, among other things. For example, 3rd party multi-platform console games can't allow for gyro aiming on both systems, etc. Even though Sony and Nintendo have had motion sensors in controllers since 2006.

 

[PSX]

Bungie Acquisition Leak

/v/ - Bungie Acquisition - Video Games - 4chan

Bungie Acquisition - "/v/ - Video Games" is 4chan's imageboard dedicated to the discussion of PC and console video games.

boards.4channel.org

Take it with a grain of salt.

They are smart enough to not throw themselves to the graveyard. It won’t happen they already declined Microsoft rumor on ign couple of days ago. Bungie are happy to stay independent studio they Said it in pass. they are already making a lot of money from destiny, Chinese company paid them 100 million dollar to make a new IP why would they bother. They already know a lot of companies wants them so I believe they would rather to let other companies pay them for time exclusivities or exclusive games instead buying the whole company.

Bungie CEO Refutes Microsoft Acquisition Rumors - IGN

Earlier reports said Microsoft and Bungie held talks about a potential partnership or acquisition, but Bungie's CEO says that's not the case.

www.google.com

It looks like Bungie is working on a new IP

Seattle games developer Bungie seems to have started development on a new franchise. That's going by a job posting on the studio's website for an Incubation Art Director , which outlines the...

www.pcgamesinsider.biz

 

[FranXico]

We know many games are using the haptics in ways that CANNOT be replicated by a rumble motor.

"Compared to the rumble force feedback we had in the past, the special character of the haptic feedback is that it has a bigger range of frequencies it can produce." - Polyphony Digital

"The haptic feedback, in comparison to the vibration function of previous generations, allows us to utilize a much wider range, starting from a very strong vibration that is much more powerful than before, down to extremely light vibration. This way we can offer players very detailed, “textured” nuances. Because of this, our approach is different – it isn’t a transient or a constant vibration level anymore, it allows us to meticulously adjust the feedback throughout the game." – Kenji Kimura // Director, Ghostwire: Tokyo

You can't take a wider range of feedback and just condense it down to rumble. It'd be shit. And it'd hurt the game design and player experience.

And why would a game dev even bother with such ideas if some gamers won't even feel them? No. The only way to ensure game devs efforts are useful and guaranteed to be the same for all players is to require the new controller.

We have been using the same rumble feedback for over 20 years. Sony (and Nintendo) are trying to replace that with better haptic feedback. I want them to succeed despite Xbox's lagging behind because we need a new, better form of feedback for controllers. Its been 20 years. Devs need more tools to create with. And we deserve better experiences. This is beginning of the next 10-20 years of controller feedback.

We know if can't be replicated. That much is obvious. But some end users would have the option to wait before buying a DuslSense, in exchange for a sub-par experience.

 

[DrDamn]

Normal isn't always better. It's awesome that the Xbox controllers will also work next generation. For all those who have special editions, limited editions or even home-designed controllers, the ability to use them for next-gen as well is amazing.

There's a real risk that a lot of PS5 games won't utilize the new gimmicks, thus there would be no need to exclude legacy controllers.

That risk is much greater if you allow PS4 controllers to be used for PS5 games. For me it depends on what has been added and what that adds to the experience. The changes for the dual sense sound really good, so I'm happy with the current situation.

 

[TBiddy]

kyliethicc I'm not interested in entering a controller war with you. You'd need to find someone else for that.

Sony could easily allow for legacy controllers and it wouldn't hurt anyone. It's a business decision, which I understand, but don't condone.

That risk is much greater if you allow PS4 controllers to be used for PS5 games. For me it depends on what has been added and what that adds to the experience. The changes for the dual sense sound really good, so I'm happy with the current situation.

A lot of 3rd party will probably skip it, or at the very least only make a barebone implementation. I could be wrong, of course, but I don't see any technical limitations here. It's a pure business decision, designed to maximise profits.

 

[Orky]

wow. And this is a cross gen game? Amazing!

 

[NeroDaGod]

And you deliberately left out the rest of the sentence? "but Sams paints a pretty consistent and believable picture of 343 Industries as a studio beset with a chronic lack of focus."
Sams who is known to have his inside sources at Microsoft.

The rest of the sentence does not disprove that it's all a rumour. So that article means fuck all.

Having looked at what Brad Sams wrote on his original article all his sources are extremely vague and even still his conclusion at the end corroborates exactly what you're trying to argue lol.

"Microsoft has invested hundreds of millions of dollars into Halo Infinite with the end goal being a title that would elevate Xbox series X at launch but we all know that’s no longer going to happen."

 

[kyliethicc]

We know if can't be replicated. That much is obvious. But some end users would have the option to wait before buying a DuslSense, in exchange for a sub-par experience.

No, all users will have a DualSense included in the box when they buy the console.

 

[kyliethicc]

kyliethicc I'm not interested in entering a controller war with you. You'd need to find someone else for that.

Sony could easily allow for legacy controllers and it wouldn't hurt anyone. It's a business decision, which I understand, but don't condone.

It would 100% hurt the games, the devs, and the players.

 

[TBiddy]

It would 100% hurt the games, the devs, and the players.

How?

Let's set up a scenario. Sony allows the DS4 to work for all games, since they enable games to fall-back to legacy rumble if DualSense isn't detected, while presenting a warning to the player "Warning: Legacy controller discovered. Some features may be disabled or downgraded."

It doesn't hurt the games, since they play as-is for those with the next-gen controllers.
It doesn't hurt the devs, since there's no extra work for them.
It doesn't hurt the players, since they can still play their games without shelling out $70 for additional controllers for their buddies.

 

[chilichote]

You already know that every PS5 comes with a new controller, right?

 

[kyliethicc]

How?

Let's set up a scenario. Sony allows the DS4 to work for all games, since they enable games to fall-back to legacy rumble if DualSense isn't detected, while presenting a warning to the player "Warning: Legacy controller discovered. Some features may be disabled or downgraded."

It doesn't hurt the games, since they play as-is for those with the next-gen controllers.
It doesn't hurt the devs, since there's no extra work for them.
It doesn't hurt the players, since they can still play their games without shelling out $70 for additional controllers for their buddies.

This is simple. Cross gen holds back game design. Cross gen controller support holds back controller design.

Otherwise, every PS5 game would just be designed around the PS4 controller. And then the game devs would have their hard work creating new ideas using the new features wasted, and the experience for players would suffer, and it would spiral downwards. Eventually many games would just not use the new features, and players who like those new features would not get to enioy them anymore.

A lazy 3rd party multi-plat developer (like EA making FIFA) are not gonna bother using the DualSense features unless they have to. If they don't have to, they won't. That would mean players who would want that experience won't get it. Every player has a controller included. No one has to buy a controller.

Forcing a minimum is the only way to promise to players their experience will be "X" for the entire generation. Minimums matter. The baseline for PS5 games has to be the new controller. I wish no games would be cross gen and held back either, but thats a pipe dream. Cross gen controller support holds games back too. This is just a fact.

Imagine if every PS5 game had to work with the DualShock 2 from 2000. Fuck me.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

The rest of the sentence does not disprove that it's all a rumour. So that article means fuck all.

Having looked at what Brad Sams wrote on his original article all his sources are extremely vague and even still his conclusion at the end corroborates exactly what you're trying to argue lol.

"Microsoft has invested hundreds of millions of dollars into Halo Infinite with the end goal being a title that would elevate Xbox series X at launch but we all know that’s no longer going to happen."

Wasn't it Brad Sams who leaked the XSS design? I trust him to have his sources within Microsoft to know this

 

[TBiddy]

This is simple. Cross gen holds back game design. Cross gen controller support holds back controller design.

Otherwise, every PS5 game would just be designed around the PS4 controller. And then the game devs would have their hard work creating new ideas using the new features wasted,

Makes no sense, since there's at least DualSense for each PS5 out there. Why would they go to waste, since most people would use their DualSense to play on a day to day basis?

Forcing a minimum is the only way to promise to players their experience will be "X" for the entire generation. Minimums matter. The baseline for PS5 games has to be the new controller.

The standard for PS5 games would be the new controller in this scenario. Every single owner of a PS5 will have a DualSense.

Going one generation back in controllers wouldn't ruin anyones experience. It's just a matter of allowing people to have their friends over to play FIFA without buying 3 new additional controllers to replace the fully functioning controllers they most likely already have.

PS. Saying "That's just a fact", when it's obviously your subjective opinion doesn't work.

 

[reksveks]

Just to add you can have anti-consumer moves for x players, pro-consumer move for y players and pro-company moves at the same time.

personally i would like games to entice me into having the new controller instead of forcing me to buy new controllers especially when we know that the games can be made to support ds4 inputs aka fighting sticks/steering wheel. there is a chicken and egg situation but it feels like sony have just forced everyone whom does local play to buy a new piece of hardware. games like fifa, yakuza and tetris effect again makes no sense imo to be locked to the dualsense.

 

[kyliethicc]

Makes no sense, since there's at least DualSense for each PS5 out there. Why would they go to waste, since most people would use their DualSense to play on a day to day basis?



The standard for PS5 games would be the new controller in this scenario. Every single owner of a PS5 will have a DualSense.

Going one generation back in controllers wouldn't ruin anyones experience. It's just a matter of allowing people to have their friends over to play FIFA without buying 3 new additional controllers to replace the fully functioning controllers they most likely already have.

PS. Saying "That's just a fact", when it's obviously your subjective opinion doesn't work.

You're arguing cross gen doesn't hold games back. No worries. We don't agree.

The minimum would be the DualShock 4. The floor matters. Its what games are built around.

Same reason why all games on PS4 require the DualShock 4 and have to be installed to the HDD. That's the floor.
Same as why all PS5 games require the DualSense and have to be installed to the SSD.

 

[TBiddy]

You're arguing cross gen doesn't hold games back. No worries. We don't agree.

No, I'm arguing that allowing current-gen controllers on next-gen consoles won't ruin anyones experience. Not the devs, not the gamers and not the games.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

No one gives a toss about couch co op anymore lmao

 

[kyliethicc]

No, I'm arguing that allowing current-gen controllers on next-gen controllers won't ruin anyones experience. Not the devs, not the gamers and not the games.

Thats sadly not true. Imagine if all PS4 games had to be able to be playable without analog sticks. Would that not ruin anyone's experience? If all PS4 games had to be able to be played with the PS1 controller? With just a D-pad?

 

[Dodkrake]

He's certainly mistaken (and already apologized for it), but it's such an odd decision and one that must be based in cash. Why not allow legacy controllers to be used?

Because new games will have trigger mechanics designed on purpose. These are gameplay impacting decisions and the previous controller does not support them.

 

[TBiddy]

Thats sadly not true. Imagine if all PS4 games had to be able to be playable without analog sticks. Would that not ruin anyone's experience? If all PS4 games had to be able to be played with the PS1 controller? With just a D-pad?

Which current-gen controller doesn't have analogue sticks? You should read my posts, before setting up anymore strawmen.

Because new games will have trigger mechanics designed on purpose. These are gameplay impacting decisions and the previous controller does not support them.

Ok, I'll bite. Which gameplay impacting decision are you referring to? Keep in mind all PS5 owners would not have this issue, since they already have the DualSense, so what we're really talking about are the extra controllers you hand to your friends, when you're having them over for multiplayer fun.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

No one gives a toss about couch co op anymore lmao

Because you have no one to play with? I play a lot of couch co-op games with other people

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Because you have no one to play with? I play a lot of couch co-op games with other people

I can't even think of any couch games besides the sports ones and some kiddy shit if you're interested in that

And even in the sports games local co op has been removed from loads of modes. Do you want to know why?

 

[Deleted member 775630]

I can't even think of any couch games besides the sports ones and some kiddy shit if you're interested in that

And even in the sports games local co op has been removed from loads of modes. Do you want to know why?

Alright, so just your personal experience is that you don't want to play couch games. That's valid, but let's not pretend that this is for everyone... A lot of people still care about couch gaming with multiple people.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Alright, so just your personal experience is that you don't want to play couch games. That's valid, but let's not pretend that this is for everyone... A lot of people still care about couch gaming with multiple people.

Couch gaming is a novelty now. It's hardly used anymore and don't pretend otherwise

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Couch gaming is a novelty now. It's hardly used anymore and don't pretend otherwise

Again, from your experience... Can you show me actual facts and figures?

 

[Gediminas]

i would like to say, which current gen(PS5) controller doesn't have haptic feedback and other staff? but i will not say that, because one man going to look dumb (like 100th time)

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Again, from your experience... Can you show me actual facts and figures?

Why do you think they removed splitscreen from Halo 5

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Why do you think they removed splitscreen from Halo 5

Because they couldn't make it work. Did you know Halo Infinite the new instalment will support it?

 

[sircaw]

Well, at least he clearly declares that he received a free console from Microsoft. Which is better than some of his contemporaries.

However, if we’re ever to trust the opinions of people like this, this freebie shit needs to fucking stop.

i mean look at him in the video, its like the cat that's got the fucking cream.

 

[ksdixon]

What's going on here? Seems to be a trend.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Because they couldn't make it work. Did you know Halo Infinite the new instalment will support it?

Don't give me that nonsense. They absolutely could have made it work. They didn't bother to put the resources in to make it work because barely anyone used it

And yes infinite has it because the loud minority who probably don't even use it themselves cried to the high heavens about it

 

[IbelieveInGenerations]

so this is what we consider "next gen" is now?

I dont want to sound like a troll. I am going to be realistic here...

The current stage of XSX when It comes to game is simply pathetic. How can a platform that is about to be released a bit more than a month away did not show any game, any Gameplay footage of a launch title... Its Just ridículous.

Wasnt Medium running on a PC as well? There has been zero "the footage You are about to see is running on Xbox Series X" message before any video. And then You see the news of XSX getting late patch for Ray tracing. Something is wrong...

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Don't give me that nonsense. They absolutely could have made it work. They didn't bother to put the resources in because barely anyone used it

And yes infinite has it because the loud minority who probably don't even use it themselves cried about it

Great sources for all of this

 

[ksdixon]

Speaking of downgrades....

Jesus, what happened? The pink haired one looks like a trap.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Great sources for all of this

Even Phil came out and said only a small minority still used local co op

If it was as important as you still think it is they would have included it

 

[Shmunter]

Normal isn't always better. It's awesome that the Xbox controllers will also work next generation. For all those who have special editions, limited editions or even home-designed controllers, the ability to use them for next-gen as well is amazing.

There's a real risk that a lot of PS5 games won't utilize the new gimmicks, thus there would be no need to exclude legacy controllers.

Disagree, making new features a baseline is key for adoption. It may not guarantee it, but it gives it the best chance. Without, it would definitely be relegated to a great idea without uptake.

I also think people investing in overpriced special edition when it comes to tech that will be redundant in time is not a choice to be made for longevity. All those special solid gold Apple Watch series 1 owners, well more money than sense.

Xbox may be giving that extended life to its peripherals but it is clearly at the cost of innovation. Personal preference, but not for me.

 

[Mr Moose]

Microsoft's upcoming Halo 5: Guardians breaks from series tradition in a major way due to the fact that the shooter will not support split-screen. Now, Microsoft's top gaming boss, Phil Spencer, has shed some more light on that controversial decision. He tells GameSpot in a new interview that the "vast majority" of people, at least those whose consoles are connected to Xbox Live, are playing co-op across Xbox Live, not locally.

Spencer went to say he he "loved" split-screen in previous Halo games and acknowledged that "it was kind of how multiplayer in Halo was born." But times have changed.

 

[Zoro7]

Couch gaming is a novelty now. It's hardly used anymore and don't pretend otherwise

What a stupid thing to say. I play loads of co-op with friends and family.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

What a stupid thing to say. I play loads of co-op with friends and family.

Congrats you are part of a niche

 

[sircaw]

What a stupid thing to say. I play loads of co-op with friends and family.

Absolute bullshit, i am your only friend and i have not been invited to any games with you.




Wait, that means, sigh

 

[Zoro7]

Absolute bullshit, i am your only friend and i have not been invited to any games with you.




Wait, that means, sigh

I’m sorry I can’t breathe underwater.

 

[sircaw]

I’m sorry I can’t breathe underwater.

That's not my problem, excuses.

 

[kyliethicc]

Couch gaming is a novelty now. It's hardly used anymore and don't pretend otherwise

It depends on the system. I bet its used much more on Nintendo for Kart & Smash and those games, than it is on PS4 or Xbox.

But I fail to see how this is an issue. If 4 people want to play local co-op on PS5, or Switch, or Xbox, buy the controllers. If its too expensive, then don't.

And I'm sick of this argument that Xbox failing to create a new generation of controller is somehow a good thing. Perfect, same controller for 14 years. Never gets better.

Maybe in 2027, Xbox will try adding some new features... if they can risk such an "anti-consumer" move.

 

[Loxus]

I’m assuming at this point that save transfers from PS4 to PS5 is more difficult to implement than that on Xbox. I think companies have less incentive to do so as they don’t have the same marketing deals with PlayStation. All just assumptions here. Who really knows?

I think it's has to do with how their System software works.
Just take a look at work trophies work.
Coming from PS3 to PS4, you have to earn back over all the trophies for games that are on both those systems, e.g. TLOU or GTAIV.
Spiderman Remaster does the same with trophies, you earn them over and have to start a new save.

So maybe saves work the same as trophies.
PS5 saves and trophies are separate from the PS4.
Plus we don't know what's different with the PS4 and PS5 when it come to security with pirated games, copyright, etc.

 

[TBiddy]

i would like to say, which current gen(PS5) controller doesn't have haptic feedback and other staff? but i will not say that, because one man going to look dumb (like 100th time)

Who is this "one man" you're referring to?

Disagree, making new features a baseline is key for adoption. It may not guarantee it, but it gives it the best chance. Without, it would definitely be relegated to a great idea without uptake.

I also think people investing in overpriced special edition when it comes to tech that will be redundant in time is not a choice to be made for longevity. All those special solid gold Apple Watch series 1 owners, well more money than sense.

Xbox may be giving that extended life to its peripherals but it is clearly at the cost of innovation. Personal preference, but not for me.

I respect that, but I still maintain that since there'll be at least 10 million DualSense controllers out there in a year. The features would be supported in many games, no matter if the legacy controllers would be supported or not, I think.

On an entirely different note - who the hell doesn't enjoy couch-gaming with friends?

 

[Evilms]

 

[Neo Blaster]

Isn't it strange that two games heavily marketed on Xbox (Yakuza and Dirt) don't have saves that transfer over.

Save transfer exclusivity, next gen upgrade exclusivity, these are weird times...

 

[Riky]

People really think Microsoft is stopping Playstation cross gen game saves??

Really?

 

[reksveks]

Save transfer exclusivity, next gen upgrade exclusivity, these are weird times...

Maneater?