Support NeoGAF

[Bo_Hazem]

Join in!

The Art of Pixel Counting: How can we tell what resolution a game is rendering?

First, how to pixel count according to Digital Foundry: With the new games shown so far, it seems pretty hard to spot aliasing/hard edged lines for such a method. That's why DF previously stated that they need to come up with a new way of comparisons. Maybe you can't have an exact 100%...

www.neogaf.com

 

[Great Hair]

I dont know if this real or not guys!!

its an unlisted video with 210 views. where did you get the url from?

 

[spartan30gr]

its an unlisted video with 210 views. where did you get the url from?

From a big technology forum here in greece

PlayStation 5 Topic v2

www.insomnia.gr

 

[TLZ]

I dont know if this real or not guys!!

I'm ok with this.

 

[FranXico]

I dont know if this real or not guys!!

It's fake. Concept video.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Depending on settings, Xbox consoles will automatically login without having to pop up a login screen. The current dash does that and the current dash will be the Series X one.

XBX boots right to the home menu with an autologin in the background. There are like 60 of these consoles out there with press don't you think one of them would have called BS on it considering they have all tried a cold boot????

Unless you think they are all in on the conspiracy?

Did I say you're wrong or something? I'm not familiar with xbox as it's a ratio of 1:100 or more here in favor for PS. As said before, seen more Ferraris than xboxes in my life. You can still easily buy one if you want here though, X1X has been priced few months back cheaper than PS4 Slim and Switch Mini at $260 (100 OMR). Asked the shopkeeper if it's selling good, he just smiled in a sad way.

 

[Imtjnotu]

It's fake. Concept video.

i pray its real

 

[TLZ]

It's fake. Concept video.

Are you positive?

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

i pray its real

Sorry to be "that guy", but it's fan made, here's the original video from February

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Welcome back you juicy ray-traced sud, on your momentous return you should see fit to bestow me with gold again, that will make me extra juicy; for I provide much needed batshit non-sequiturs and levity to an otherwise sum-zero, aspergers-laden shitshow.

I hath spoken:

Well, that's a dangerous matter. Your juiciness should be extended!

Medal of Juice.

 

[Imtjnotu]

Sorry to be "that guy", but it's fan made, here's the original video from February

PRAY DAMNIT

 

[Lynyrd]

Ofc the Russian leak is fake, the ps5 is not going to have the black screen logo

 

[3liteDragon]

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

PRAY DAMNIT

 

[Knitted Knight]

Ofc the Russian leak is fake, the ps5 is not going to have the black screen logo

Someone paid $100 for a fake.... Jeeeeesus....

 

[mikefrails]

Are PS fans so sensitive they can’t notice praise for the brand?

 

[Boglin]

Ouch.. don’t understand why talking about something you don’t know .

This got me thinking a bit. It was said that the PS5 uses the same strategy for ray tracing as AMD's upcoming GPUs and recent leaks are showing those to have very high clocks with a large amount dedicated on-chip memory. I've read in various places that this will help tremendously with ray tracing so has there been any new rumors on exactly how big the PS5's "large ram pool" is on their APU or how large the APU is in general?

 

[Sinthor]

We have seen Spiderman running on the ps5. This received extensive upgrades according to insmoniac themselves. Yet i am struggling to see any ssd related enhancements here aside from loading. Spiderman isn't flying faster like cerny said. The quality of data being rendered is pretty much the same. Cerny said this i/o should just work without developer input implying that it would enhance graphics. Well we are seeing games in action and not seeing this stuff in action.

I don't know. Ive heard this before. I received several PMs from insiders who quoted devs that were raving about how the ps5 would have more detail and better graphics than the xsx because of the ssd and io. It's October now and i have yet to see a single game doing this.

Well, to be fair....don't you need the devs to point that kind of thing out and talk about the technical details of what they're doing? Or are you an expert in game development so that you can see that kind of thing right away and don't need it explained? As far as I'm aware, we haven't had any "behind the scenes" videos from devs about any of these games. So....we still need to know.

 

[HAL-01]

Are PS fans so sensitive they can’t notice praise for the brand?

we noticed it, your medal and parade are getting prepped as we speak just any second now

 

[MasterCornholio]

This got me thinking a bit. It was said that the PS5 uses the same strategy for ray tracing as AMD's upcoming GPUs and recent leaks are showing those to have very high clocks with a large amount dedicated on-chip memory. I've read in various places that this will help tremendously with ray tracing so has there been any new rumors on exactly how big the PS5's "large ram pool" is on their APU or how large the APU is in general?

They both have 16GBs of ram. But I believe your making a reference to the GPU cache?

With the PS5 it's believed to have more cache per CU than the XSX does.

Maybe that can help with RT?

 

[Codeblew]

So many people in this thread think the PS4/XB OS is stored on the SSD. Cold boots are going to be a lot slower than loading games.

 

[Rea]

Sorry, but I was told to wait and let the games speak for themselves back in March when Cerny showed up without a demo.

So I did.

Then the games were shown in June and I was like where is this SSD being used? I looked through their own PR to see if it was being used for anything other than loading and nope. It's like they literally had to build the game around this gimmick to take advantage of it. Spiderman, GT7, Demon Souls, Horizon and all the other games shown in September are not using the SSD.

So now the goalposts have shifted. Now im supposed to wait 2-3 years to see what games can do. Sorry but thats the same shit MS fanboys have been telling me since july. no thanks. when i buy a new console, i want next gen experiences on day one.

And no one is saying that they cant improve the I/O. He couldve built the I/O and still went with a cheaper 2.4 gbps ssd. you dont need 5.5 gbps for the two games this gen that might end up using it. 2.4 gbps is still 40x what we had last gen, still a massive leap. And you dont have to settle for 650 GB of usable storage.

22 seconds for cold boot after all shoving that ssd down our throat for months is simply unacceptable.

And look at the ray tracing performance in spiderman. look at how DMCV can only do ray tracing at 60 fps at 1080p. you need all the tflops you can get. it was true last gen. it will be true next gen and the gen after. tflops are the most important piece of the puzzle. you can have the best cpu in the world capable of all the destruction, NPC counts, and physics and your GPU still needs to be powerful enough to render it. If anything, as games get more and more complex you need more. a 5x increase in tflops simply isnt enough. especially when it comes at the expense of an SSD that no one is gonna be utilizing beyond loading.

If a year ago, an MS fanboy came here and said the PS5 would cost the same as XSX, has fewer tflops, worse ram bandwidth, smaller SSD and be a bigger console, he would literally get laughed off outta here. I understand the need to defend Sony, ive been there as a sony fan myself, but lets not kid ourselves here. we waited for the games to be shown and lets just say we are still waiting.

Sigh!! My brother, i got no words to say anymore. If you are MS fanboy, you are going to cry more. I think what sony is doing much better than what's MS doing, they have lauch games, and games that are coming out in 6months or less. MS is touting all about TFLOPS and you have seen what they have shown and they want to sell the beef up version of last gen console for you to play thousands years old games. That’s not what i would call next gen, at least sony is giving me new gen experience, like haptic feedback and 3D audio etc. Last but not least, if you are so obsessed for TFLOPS just go for PC, console are not meant to have best graphics, consoles is all about gaming experience, and GAMES.

Spiderman, GT7, Demon Souls, Horizon and all the other games shown in September are not using the SSD.

How do you know that those games aren't using power of SSD? Who told you? Demon Souls looks like fucking CGI and almost identical to the UE5 demo, what's making you think that Blue points is not using the similar tech like NANiTE in UE5?? You already know that UE5 is born by collaboration with sony and epic right?? Do you think sony doesn't have similar engine like UE5?? I think they do. UE5 need more time because it has to run across all platforms, sony doesn't. Think about it.

 

[mikefrails]

we noticed it, your medal and parade are getting prepped as we speak just any second now

You need a hug.

 

[Boglin]

They both have 16GBs of ram. But I believe your making a reference to the GPU cache?

With the PS5 it's believed to have more cache per CU than the XSX does.

Maybe that can help with RT?

I was referencing on-die memory, but not necessarily GPU cache. I was quoting Mark Cerny directly when he was going over the SRAM and he called it a "large ram pool". He was using vague language here so it's probably just wishful thinking on my part but I doubt he would call individual CU caches a "pool". Actually, thinking further I also doubt it would help with ray tracing at all in this instance because it was shown to be part of the I/O complex, and not the GPU portion of the APU

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

They both have 16GBs of ram. But I believe your making a reference to the GPU cache?

With the PS5 it's believed to have more cache per CU than the XSX does.

Maybe that can help with RT?

I've been wondering how would the asymmetrical ram could affect performance on the XSX...
What would happen when you need more than 10GBs and you need to start using the lower bandwidth memory?

 

[LED Guy?]

We have seen Spiderman running on the ps5. This received extensive upgrades according to insmoniac themselves. Yet i am struggling to see any ssd related enhancements here aside from loading. Spiderman isn't flying faster like cerny said. The quality of data being rendered is pretty much the same. Cerny said this i/o should just work without developer input implying that it would enhance graphics. Well we are seeing games in action and not seeing this stuff in action.

I don't know. Ive heard this before. I received several PMs from insiders who quoted devs that were raving about how the ps5 would have more detail and better graphics than the xsx because of the ssd and io. It's October now and i have yet to see a single game doing this.

I think you’ll see that throughout this generation, developers are still not even ready to utilize the PS5 still, you’ll see that in the coming years I think.

 

[Allandor]

That's a standard protection mechanism. all consoles have them, but I'm just glad Sony went the route of designing the system to stay within constraints of it's power budget and that it's cooling system exceeds the threshold of it's max power budget....


Funny enough, someone said they were expecting a 360 gen or some hardware failure fiasco.....I hope this does not occur with any hardware, but after two hours of play to have the console shutting down is not a good thing......

I'm sure you said this.

The Xbox has a solid cooling system. It should be quite, but if it needs to, it will tube up the fan. PS5 will do it similar. Due to their more or less constant power target, the fan must actually exhaust more heat, because with fixed frequencies you get all those idle times with lower power draw. With a fixed power budget, you don't get those idle pauses instead frequencies go up and heat with it. So the PS5 fan must run more or less constant to cool the same amount of heat. The Xbox heat will drop and rise and the fan must also compensate that.

I really have a bad feeling if I see those tiny fans in the PS5, but I hope that there is enough airflow without to much noise.

And, btw overheating issues with unpatched BC games, come on. Who could be so stupid to believe that?

 

[thelastword]

How petty of Microsoft to shun him over asking questions. That’s why gaming journalism is a joke. If you’re not kissing their ass you get nothing.

Watch the video mate

I think they might release him from jail...He might jest, but something tells me he wants MS to send him one.....Haha..

 

[PSYGN]

I dont know if this real or not guys!!

Even though we already know it's a concept, the animation in the background is moving too fast to be real.

 

[LED Guy?]

I think we should manage our expectations when it comes to Ray Tracing on both PS5 & Xbox Series X, Spider Man Remastered, essentially an enhanced PS4 game, is running at Native 4K AT 30 FPS BECAUSE OF RT REFLECTIONS & RT AO, it is a very demanding technique of rendering visuals.

So I hope we see more games running at 1440p 30 FPS on PS5 in next-gen in order to have a huge graphical leap while also bolstering advanced forms of Ray Tracing.

I have asked John Linneman on Twitter about it, here’s hoping he answers.

(Psst...that picture in my tweet is from an RTX PC benchmark from a game called Bright Memory). It looks NEXT-GEN!! Still nowhere near TLOU 2!

 

[DaGwaphics]

And, btw overheating issues with unpatched BC games, come on. Who could be so stupid to believe that?

IKR, they would never get shipped to anyone with a problem this obvious. The RRoD issue for example happened after months of use in most cases and was harder to spot. I'm sure they've had a lot of units running full tilt for more than 2hrs at this point. LOL With that said, it's not impossible to get a unit where the heatsink is not making contact correctly or PSU voltage isn't right or something like that. Probably fake, or an extreme outlier.

 

[Neo Blaster]

He is waiting for Dramastation or Xtears or maybe PC masterwhine machine.

Hope Slimy never find the perfect system, he would commit seppuku for not being able to complain about it.

 

[TLZ]

This is stupid.

If it makes you feel any better:

 

[Sinthor]

I dont know if this real or not guys!!

Now THAT looks more legitimate if anything. Having it take a few seconds, and that being to display the fancy swooshing and logo...seems more like what I'd expect to see from this system. We will see how it turns out. The only thing about this one that has me questioning it about is that spiral swirly pattern on the screen. Seems a TAD busy...but then again, it is still flowing and relaxing type of a thing so it could be legit. Show us, Sony!

 

[MasterCornholio]

I was referencing on-die memory, but not necessarily GPU cache. I was quoting Mark Cerny directly when he was going over the SRAM and he called it a "large ram pool". He was using vague language here so it's probably just wishful thinking on my part but I doubt he would call individual CU caches a "pool". Actually, thinking further I also doubt it would help with ray tracing at all in this instance because it was shown to be part of the I/O complex, and not the GPU portion of the APU

Oh that. I knew the Sram was part of the I/O complex. I know it helps the I/O but I'm not sure how.

 

[TLZ]

Sorry to be "that guy", but it's fan made, here's the original video from February

 

[Great Hair]

If it makes you feel any better:

"1 triangle is enough"
"the lance armstrong edition"

 

[HAL-01]

I think we should manage our expectations when it comes to Ray Tracing on both PS5 & Xbox Series X, Spider Man Remastered, essentially an enhanced PS4 game, is running at Native 4K AT 30 FPS BECAUSE OF RT REFLECTIONS & RT AO, it is a very demanding technique of rendering visuals.

So I hope we see more games running at 1440p 30 FPS on PS5 in next-gen in order to have a huge graphical leap while also bolstering advanced forms of Ray Tracing.

I have asked John Linneman on Twitter about it, here’s hoping he answers.

(Psst...that picture in my tweet is from an RTX PC benchmark from a game called Bright Memory). It looks NEXT-GEN!! Still nowhere near TLOU 2! ❤❤❤❤❤

RT reflections are THE most expensive form of RT to be implemented in games, not counting full path tracing. The biggest gain we'll get from RT this gen will be global illumination and ambient occlusion. Both of these play an immense part in getting graphics to look CG-like and so that's what we'll be impressed the most with later in the gen.
Right now we're seeing a lot of reflections because thats easiest to market as a next-gen RT feature, but we wont see them look really all that great until PS6 and XSXS

 

[Kerlurk]

Booting up is not just about loading the OS/Desktop. It does hardware checks, and it's very difficult to speed those up. And it does a network check, and for sure that's a major problem to fast boots.

You would want more diagnostics when booting up, as it helps resolves problems, especially if you're having a hardware issue, and need a feedback mechanism to help remove the problem.

I think 20s is reasonable regardless on how fast the SSD is.

Did some testing. Nothing beats empirical evidence.

I have a PS4 Pro with a 2 TB SSD, and based on the SATA speed of 500 MB/sec, the OS/Desktop should take no more than 6 to 7 seconds.

- with internet on, about 22 seconds
- with internet off in settings, about 19 seconds
- wake from sleep 15 seconds

Having auto login in settings made no difference, except boot was to the desktop as oppose to boot to the login screen.

Based on the speed of the PS5 SSD, loading the OS/Desktop should take no more than 2 seconds.

Based on that, I expect the fastest the PS5 can boot is 15 seconds, and from sleep about 8 seconds.

Am I right or am I wrong?

 

[Ptarmiganx2]

You're right it's not feasible.

Neither Netflix nor Spotify make enough money - the two market leading subscription services in their domains. Subscriptions just don't work for high quality content - and when the content isn't high enough quality, subscribers leave the service and it's vicious cycle down from there.

Stadia is finding out right now. Apple Arcade is cheap but includes cheap filler games so no one takes any notice. Sony already know from PS Now subscription gaming doesn't generate the income.

MS and Amazon will find out shortly with their offerings when the bottom line becomes apparent.

For now we just have to endure while everyone works out subscription gaming is a financial black hole just like music and movies. The subscription services will end up the cheap end of gaming - home for shovel ware and old stuff no one will pay full price for - and we'll get back to paying full price for quality gaming.

In fact I'm sure someone will figure out a way to pay more than full price - maybe Disney's Mulan model if we didn't already have it gaming with PS Plus and Live. Personally I'd rather just be charged the $70 and be done - it'll work out cheaper in the long run.

It ensures quality as well. If a game sucks we have the option of not buying. In a subscription model we get whatever buggy unpolished crap the publisher decides to release. The consumer is removed from the process. Content producer benefits from rushing games as it lowers costs.

 

[thelastword]

inb4 threads saying DF confirms PS5 gpu is 2060 super level.

Yeah Alex and his estimated power levels on PS5.....Always the expert on PS5 hardware estimations, PS5's raytracing tech or RDNA 2 features......The boy is a PS5 expert it would seem....

I wonder what his take is on Series X raytracing power levels, I mean the console with hardware RT afterall.....Should be RTX 3080 levels I imagine?

The very definition of bipolar.

I mean, criticism I get, always. But, people claiming to leave gaming forever because Horizon 2 is cross-gen? That's literally drama for your momma.

People are truly going to leave gaming because Horizon 2 is coming to PS4. Reminds me of the PS guy who lost his marbles when a PS game went to PC. At some point, we have to pull it back and reclaim our sanity....

Where my Tetaflops has gone???!!!

If 10TF + better hardware customization is giving me better visuals like the two games below and more TF is giving me the first game as opposed...I think the 10TF wins Alex...The 10TF wins....

 

[Sinthor]

I think we should manage our expectations when it comes to Ray Tracing on both PS5 & Xbox Series X, Spider Man Remastered, essentially an enhanced PS4 game, is running at Native 4K AT 30 FPS BECAUSE OF RT REFLECTIONS & RT AO, it is a very demanding technique of rendering visuals.

So I hope we see more games running at 1440p 30 FPS on PS5 in next-gen in order to have a huge graphical leap while also bolstering advanced forms of Ray Tracing.

I have asked John Linneman on Twitter about it, here’s hoping he answers.

(Psst...that picture in my tweet is from an RTX PC benchmark from a game called Bright Memory). It looks NEXT-GEN!! Still nowhere near TLOU 2! ❤❤❤❤❤

I couldn't agree more. In fact, I've been SURPRISED at how much RT is being used so far. When the news about RT came out and after we saw the XSX chugging with MINECRAFT being ray traced, I assumed that RT was just going to be one of those buzzwords and that while the boxes supported, RT, we'd see it used slim to none due to the high cost and resource demands. So that we're seeing as much use of it as we are, and this early in the generation is stunning to me still. Now, I still expect it to be basically what we've seen so far- there's no doubt that neither box is powerful enough to do full ray tracing for the games they will run- but I'm sure there will be some improvements as well. If anyone expecting much more than what we've seen so far when it comes to RT, I do think they'll be disappointed. Still, it's foolish TO expect that level of performance.

 

[XO_o]

 

[XO_o]

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[TeKtheSanE]

I can't find this guys twitter account.

GamerNamedBoo that is

EDIT: Nevermind, found it

Also this is pulled from this One X reddit post.

 

[IbelieveInGenerations]

Just downloaded PS5 Release Countdown app on Play Store.

 

[ethomaz]

Lmao. No

No what?

 

[IbelieveInGenerations]

STOP WITH THE FUD, GUYS!

I condemn FUDS on both sides.

Lets not make ourselves equal to the Xbox Extremists on twitter

SonyGaf Director

 

[yewles1]

I'm still puzzled by John's response.

XBOX gamers have to wait for an RT patch per game post release.