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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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INC

INC

Member
IllegalLemon said:
Sony actually excels in noise cancellation tech. Their tech is the best when it comes to noise cancellation ,followed closely by Bose. My next buy will be HifiMan's though, i love that brand, especially the sound that their headphones can produce.
Click to expand...

See I need a more flat range set of headphones, I use for FL studio alot, but would be nice to have decent pure listening set of headphones
 
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Mr Moose

Mr Moose

Member
Hendrick's said:
IAdJ5Ru.gif
Click to expand...
I didn't plan on sleeping tonight anyway...
 
IllegalLemon

IllegalLemon

Member
INCUBASE said:
See I need a more flat range set of headphones, I use for FL studio alot, but would be nice to have decent pure listening set of headphones
Click to expand...
Does your budget touch headphones like Audeze and HifiMan. If it does, i recommend checking headphones from these brands out.
Edit: They're some of the only brands that produce really high quality open back headphones, ideal for audio production.
 
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thurnishaleygw

thurnishaleygw

Member
IllegalLemon said:
As a matter of fact, it's not the XM4's that were expected to be the major upgrade, it's the XM5's and i reckon that'll end up being the case.
Click to expand...
Very much agree with this, the XM4's upgrades are basically quality of life features. Sound wise, apart from the adoption of DSEE Extreme, that makes XM4's work better with lossy tracks, there's really not that much of an upgrade over the XM3's.
 
IllegalLemon

IllegalLemon

Member
thurnishaleygw said:
Very much agree with this, the XM4's upgrades are basically quality of life features. Sound wise, apart from the adoption of DSEE Extreme, that makes XM4's work better with lossy tracks, there's really not that much of an upgrade over the XM3's.
Click to expand...
And two extra microphones for better voice quality in calls in the XM4 versus 3 mics in the XM3. Sony calls the tech ClearVoice.
 
thurnishaleygw

thurnishaleygw

Member
IllegalLemon said:
And two extra microphones for better voice quality in calls in the XM4 versus 3 mics in the XM3. Sony calls the tech ClearVoice.
Click to expand...
True. That falls for me more in the "quality of life" category, though, it's not stuff I particularly look for in a set of headphones, but it works like a charm. The whole concept around noise cancelling and clarity works amazingly well on the XM's.
 
PaintTinJr

PaintTinJr

Member
AeneaGames said:
I of course know not everyone is the same but here and on PS4 both you see a list of installed game icons, just navigate to one, select it and it starts it. I don't see what could be distracting you.
Plus they seem to have removed the What's New thing the PS4 defaults to. Since I'm totally not interested in any of that I simply ignore it and move to the game icon.

The PS3 xmb I liked enough but I found that to be a mess. You had to move to the Games icon first which was not the left most icon but 2nd or 3rd from the right with many others before it, then wade thru the games and you could go both up and down. It felt somewhat unnatural to me and took me some time to get used to. There it seemed they did not find gsming to be the most important thing.

I get that for you it's quite the opposite tho. Kinda fascinating how minds work...
Click to expand...
You are absolutely spot on with: "fascinating how minds work..." IMHO, your take on things has really helped me hone in on my main issue, and it is visible in the Sony TY UI to PS5 UI picture comparison made by some else recently in the thread.

Being able to quickly identify what is a game icon, and what is not in such a transient visual representation of functionality is the major issue for me, because the whole "judge a book by its cover" sales pitch interferes with my ability to rapidly discern what I'm looking at ... say by comparison to looking at a bookshelf of games in alphabetical order - with their spines listing the game names in a reasonably consistent way- with good contrast, despite the game's sleeve design being as colourful and artistically random as icons in the PS4/PS5 UI I am able to filter all that noise to nothing because of the functionality overrides the form of what I am looking at.

The bookshelf situation IMHO is more like the XMB and still closer to the Sony TV oreo UI - as bigger UI prominence is given to the shelves, each of which is a different class of source content, which I find helps hone focus quickly, before having to filter out the busy icon noise of just a few icons to select the correct item.

I take your point about the XMB being wrong to start on the right side - and make you navigate to the centre where the game column was - like the reading tables in a library IMO. But obviously if it had gigabytes, rather than megabytes for its memory footprint, it too could have had a quick resume to the point you left it, and taken the best of its non-transient library style design and enhanced it to (IMHO) overcome it's minor shortcoming.
 
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PaintTinJr

PaintTinJr

Member
existensmaximum said:
Then they should simply have equipped it with one gig more memory, reserved for the UI. That's just unacceptable IMO.
Click to expand...
I don't get this, and I don't agree with John at DF - although he does probably spend more time in menus with capturing and trying stuff than most of us, and I wonder if his real issue is more caused by using a smallish monitor with 1ms lag that has no picture enhancement DSP - like say a X1 ultimate chip in Sony tv.
 
danielJackson

danielJackson

Banned
thurnishaleygw said:
Very much agree with this, the XM4's upgrades are basically quality of life features. Sound wise, apart from the adoption of DSEE Extreme, that makes XM4's work better with lossy tracks, there's really not that much of an upgrade over the XM3's.
Click to expand...

What can we expect?

I mean, XM3 sound quality is already "nearly perfect", so there isnt really anything major to improve.

I have had them for +2 years and they are still so good.

Headphones are so old invention by now that they are kind of perfected in sound quality, if manufacturer chooses so, even on cheap models.

ANC could be improved, but even that have physical limits of how good it can be.

Anyone whom expects big improvements on sound quality is just getting dissapointed(because they are so good already)

Call quality and touch control that goes ape shit crazy on warm enough(it mimics finger swipes when bicycling around +20C) and when it is cold enough are my complains.

I have dropped mine on concrete/asphalt from 1-1.5m multiple times, only scratches so build quality is great.


And comparing to 3000€ hifi headphone sets is useless as they have more of psychological effect than real sound quality differences. Like those idiots that pay thousands for speaker cables or even hdmi cables and claim they hear differences ;) (if someone claims that those have much better sound quality)

Expensive stuff can sound different, but it doesnt mean it is better.
 
A

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
danielJackson said:
What can we expect?

I mean, XM3 sound quality is already "nearly perfect", so there isnt really anything major to improve.

I have had them for +2 years and they are still so good.

Headphones are so old invention by now that they are kind of perfected in sound quality, if manufacturer chooses so, even on cheap models.

ANC could be improved, but even that have physical limits of how good it can be.

Anyone whom expects big improvements on sound quality is just getting dissapointed(because they are so good already)

Call quality and touch control that goes ape shit crazy on warm enough(it mimics finger swipes when bicycling around +20C) and when it is cold enough are my complains.

I have dropped mine on concrete/asphalt from 1-1.5m multiple times, only scratches so build quality is great.


And comparing to 3000€ hifi headphone sets is useless as they have more of psychological effect than real sound quality differences. Like those idiots that pay thousands for speaker cables or even hdmi cables and claim they hear differences ;) (if someone claims that those have much better sound quality)

Expensive stuff can sound different, but it doesnt mean it is better.
Click to expand...
Holy shit about your touch control , on my Xm2 it works flawlessly.Is there a diference about touch control between the Xm2 and 3?
 
IllegalLemon

IllegalLemon

Member
danielJackson said:
What can we expect?

I mean, XM3 sound quality is already "nearly perfect", so there isnt really anything major to improve.

I have had them for +2 years and they are still so good.

Headphones are so old invention by now that they are kind of perfected in sound quality, if manufacturer chooses so, even on cheap models.

ANC could be improved, but even that have physical limits of how good it can be.

Anyone whom expects big improvements on sound quality is just getting dissapointed(because they are so good already)

Call quality and touch control that goes ape shit crazy on warm enough(it mimics finger swipes when bicycling around +20C) and when it is cold enough are my complains.

I have dropped mine on concrete/asphalt from 1-1.5m multiple times, only scratches so build quality is great.


And comparing to 3000€ hifi headphone sets is useless as they have more of psychological effect than real sound quality differences. Like those idiots that pay thousands for speaker cables or even hdmi cables and claim they hear differences ;) (if someone claims that those have much better sound quality)

Expensive stuff can sound different, but it doesnt mean it is better.
Click to expand...
There's many improvements to be made. Something that's perfect can be improved upon. For example, using a nanoscale diaphragm instead of LCP, that's an upgrade or using planar magnets instead of neodymium magnets to improve low to mid range frequencies and improve harmonics(spherical etc). Using memory foam on the earcups for impoved comfort etc. And loads of other goodies. Amazing noice cancellation can be improved even further using better deep learning algorithms and incorporating them into a more powerful sound processor. Perfect technology can still be improved in a myriad of ways.
 
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TGO

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
They said in the teardown the disc drive was a premium 4k Blu-ray player.
Hope this means it'll support all Audio and HDR formats and hopefully has good 4k Upscaling for DVD/Blu-ray
And if so does that mean the PS5 will also support those format for games?
 
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thurnishaleygw

thurnishaleygw

Member
danielJackson said:
What can we expect?

I mean, XM3 sound quality is already "nearly perfect", so there isnt really anything major to improve.

I have had them for +2 years and they are still so good.

Headphones are so old invention by now that they are kind of perfected in sound quality, if manufacturer chooses so, even on cheap models.

ANC could be improved, but even that have physical limits of how good it can be.

Anyone whom expects big improvements on sound quality is just getting dissapointed(because they are so good already)

Call quality and touch control that goes ape shit crazy on warm enough(it mimics finger swipes when bicycling around +20C) and when it is cold enough are my complains.

I have dropped mine on concrete/asphalt from 1-1.5m multiple times, only scratches so build quality is great.


And comparing to 3000€ hifi headphone sets is useless as they have more of psychological effect than real sound quality differences. Like those idiots that pay thousands for speaker cables or even hdmi cables and claim they hear differences ;) (if someone claims that those have much better sound quality)

Expensive stuff can sound different, but it doesnt mean it is better.
Click to expand...
Well, they sound great, of course, but that depends on the context of what you're looking for. For me, they sound great for an everyday headphone with which you listen to music, make calls and so on. Personally, from a sound standpoint I trust my AKG K872 way more from a soundstaging point of view, for starters. The texture and tonality on the treble feels more natural (they worked like mad lads on the 6 to 9khz frequency range to smooth every sibilance and spike the headphones in which they're based on had). It's probably the easiest treble listening experience I've had while packing the clarity and punch that they have. The bass is drier, has less decay and makes for a more accurate listening experience.

So, I would argue that there is always just a bit of room to improve, and I know I'm comparing noise cancelling BT headphones to reference headphones, but I think, ideally, is what a good headphone should strive for. Let the mixing engineer do the work.

Regarding what you said about expensive stuff, I agree, a lot of times, is precisely a color in the sound or a particular sound character what you're paying for, specially speaking of studio equipment. I mean, a lot of really expensive analog stuff basically adds noise to your signal, it's just "good" noise.
 
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A

Antelope

Member
IllegalLemon said:
There's many improvements to be made. Something that's perfect can be improved upon. For example, using a nanoscale diaphragm instead of LCP, that's an upgrade or using planar magnets instead of neodymium magnets to improve low to mid range frequencies and improve harmonics(spherical etc). Using memory foam on the earcups for impoved comfort etc. And loads of other goodies. Amazing noice cancellation can be improved even further using better deep learning algorithms and incorporating them into a more powerful sound processor. Perfect technology can still be improved in a myriad of ways.
Click to expand...

I’m looking to upgrade from an old pair of Beats that came with my MacBook. Would you recommend the Sony XM’s or is there another good brand to look out for?

Mostly used for listening to music while working, movies and gaming, where I use a v-moda boom mic.

Since it’s my main source of sound, I would like an upgrade but I wouldn’t say I’m an audiophile either.
 
existensmaximum

existensmaximum

Member
PaintTinJr said:
I don't get this, and I don't agree with John at DF - although he does probably spend more time in menus with capturing and trying stuff than most of us, and I wonder if his real issue is more caused by using a smallish monitor with 1ms lag that has no picture enhancement DSP - like say a X1 ultimate chip in Sony tv.
Click to expand...
It just degrades the whole package and experience of a 4k console. Why not make the UI render att 480p if it doesn't matter, should free up even more RAM, right? To me it's often the little details that make the difference between a good product and a great product.
 
Captain Ashley

Captain Ashley

Banned
existensmaximum said:
It just degrades the whole package and experience of a 4k console. Why not make the UI render att 480p if it doesn't matter, should free up even more RAM, right? To me it's often the little details that make the difference between a good product and a great product.
Click to expand...
I had to switch back to 1080p not long ago because a game I was playing (Remnant from Ashes) had a bug which caused game crashes in higher resolution. I hated the look of UI at that resolution, everything was blurry and annoying. It's very visible with static images, much more than in motion. I was glad they patched the game so I could go back to 4k.

If I bought a new console and had to look at low-res menus, it would spoil a lot of my next gen feeling.
 
Thirty7ven

Thirty7ven

Banned
existensmaximum said:
It just degrades the whole package and experience of a 4k console. Why not make the UI render att 480p if it doesn't matter, should free up even more RAM, right? To me it's often the little details that make the difference between a good product and a great product.
Click to expand...

There’s no good excuse. Some people will just act like they always act, that whatever MS decides to do, it’s the sweet spot. No matter what.

It should be a basic expectation that the UI would be at 4K.
 
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L

Larryfox

Member
Antelope said:
I’m looking to upgrade from an old pair of Beats that came with my MacBook. Would you recommend the Sony XM’s or is there another good brand to look out for?

Mostly used for listening to music while working, movies and gaming, where I use a v-moda boom mic.

Since it’s my main source of sound, I would like an upgrade but I wouldn’t say I’m an audiophile either.
Click to expand...
Audio technica mth 50x best headphones you can buy under $200. They’re usually around $150.
 
J_Gamer.exe

J_Gamer.exe

Member
ToadMan said:
In the case of that video I would also assume it's a pre-release demo build so there might be other reasons it's loading slower beyond network access - debug code in both the console and the game code for example.




I'm not certain of the mechanics or even if there are multiple ways to leave the location, but I assume from the lock on triangle that the moment the user confirms they're going that way, the loading can begin. It's about 2 seconds from the lock on to exiting the tunnel - that was what we saw in R&C so loading of the external content is feasible I'd say.

Having said that, it could also be the area immediately outside the exit is resident in RAM and its the rest of the city out of the player view that is loaded. That would make the available loading time more like 3 or 4 seconds between the moment the player selects the exit and the time they regain control to maneuver...
Click to expand...

Yeah it may be able to load some things in from that point of no return but not completely until the screen goes black and all /most the current assets are ditched? As its still animating the wall etc. But maybe the closer it gets to the hole thing the less and less there is in ram and more and more is loaded.

There's so many ways devs can do it and reduce loading.

The thing about it being in ram outside, if that was the case I dont think it would have gone pitch black, surely spiderman would have just gone though the hole and been seen all the way.

I'm sure we'll get breakdowns of how this stuff is done by someone eventually.

But if devs choose like this there are many ways to make the loading under a second, or seem so.

The whole losing control to when you regain control part isn't always counted for me, animations are added to make it super smooth and fit with gameplay. Without them it would be jarring.
 
Nowcry

Nowcry

Member
LiquidRex said:
With regards to Spiderman Miles Morales, I would have also preferred a third option of 1440p 60fps and higher fidelity. 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...

If you reduce the resolution, you reduce the number of rays, therefore the raytracing is faster, however the denoising could become more expensive or simply not do its job well. denoising AI needs a large sample to work well.

Reducing the number of rays will not resuscitate the denoising. If it already takes 8 ms it is practically impossible to achieve 60 fps with RT. not at least without tensor core.
 
J_Gamer.exe

J_Gamer.exe

Member
yewles1 said:
Is it possible that XS is having issues with BVH ray intersections through culling and that PS5's Geometry Engine may have advances that accommodate through such problems already, thus explaining MS's RT problems?
Click to expand...

Heres a question.

How are they able to both cull geometry thats round a corner not in line of sight, but also rendered it so rays can hit it and give a reflection of whats there?

This is presuming that this is what they are doing.

I dont get how you can do both, me trying to figure it out...

tenor.gif
 
D

Deleted member 775630

Unconfirmed Member
Thirty7ven said:
There’s no good excuse. Some people will just act like they always act, that whatever MS decides to do, it’s the sweet spot. No matter what.

It should be a basic expectation that the UI would be at 4K.
Click to expand...
How much memory does it use though? What's the difference between 4K and 1080p UI. If it's the 1GB of RAM that they give to developers, I don't really have an issue with it.
 
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Empire Strikes Back

Empire Strikes Back

Member
TGO said:
They said in the teardown the disc drive was a premium 4k Blu-ray player.
Hope this means it'll support all Audio and HDR formats and hopefully has good 4k Upscaling for DVD/Blu-ray
And if so does that mean the PS5 will also support those format for games?
Click to expand...
It probably will, the console had a bunch of Dolby logos on the bottom.
 
Finem Orientis

Finem Orientis

Member
Some M.2 SSDs have heat sinks attached to them.Are there any precautions that need to be taken when installing such an SSD in a PS5 expansion slot?

Otori: The physical design of the heat sink is designed to accommodate heat sinks that are 8mm or less above the board surface. Although the expansion slot has a metal cover, it's best to avoid contact with it.
Click to expand...
https://www.4gamer.net/games/990/G999027/20201016035/
 
R

raul3d

Member
J_Gamer.exe said:
Heres a question.

How are they able to both cull geometry thats round a corner not in line of sight, but also rendered it so rays can hit it and give a reflection of whats there?

This is presuming that this is what they are doing.

I dont get how you can do both, me trying to figure it out...

tenor.gif
Click to expand...
The raytracing is not done into the actual scene. You can think of it having two scenes simultaneous in memory: The actual viewport the camera shows and the BVH for raytracing. The normal viewport can be as tightly culled and optimized with any rasterization tricks as any traditional game. The BVH is less tightly called, since as you said you could see reflections of objects behind a corner, and usually contains objects with a lot less detail.
 
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