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[roops67]

The stories

Hmm strange I was so looking forward to all black panels, but after seeing this it somehow doesn't work... maybe could be that glossy mid portion needs to be matt black? Or it's the viewing angle that's making it look off? What you all think what's wrong with the picture here??

 

[ToadMan]

Nope, probably BC limitation, but developers can detect PS5. Ghost of Tsushima is 30fps on Pro and 60 on PS5

Yes. But PS4 supports 60 FPS. It doesn’t, however, support 120fps .... can’t make the PS4 version offer an option it simply isn’t capable of.

 

[Fordino]

It’s impressive how Microsoft have convinced the uninformed that DirectX 12 gives the XBox an advantage over Playstation.

It’s an API, PlayStation has its own very good APIs to do the same.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

MS should have found a company specialised in software engineering to help them produce development tools ...

The irony of this fact is never not going to baffle and bewilder me in equal measure.

In the words of the renowned Albert Panello, “[they] CREATED DirectX”..... and for some reason can’t manage to produce stable dev tools at launch for their new console?

 

[Larvana]

It’s impressive how Microsoft have convinced the uninformed that DirectX 12 gives the XBox an advantage over Playstation.

It’s an API, PlayStation has its own very good APIs to do the same.

Dev kits are very well known to be late/PS5 easier to develop for right now. Devs just need to know how to use the kits, only then will you see X be has impressive, if not more effects in certain areas.

 

[smallpotatosan]

I know some developers are having issues moving over to the GDK from an SDK. But I'm not sure how much those issues impact performance.

Like if they get resolved are XSX games going to run 50% better or will it just lead to smaller things like less screw tearing?

I believe it’s mostly related to the amount of optimization devs can do to work around the bottleneck of the system. Smartshift is also an important factor that forces devs design the game around it.

however, let me defend xsx for once, xsx’s die size bigger, assuming both APUs are on the same nose, it means xsx has more transistors on the chip. whether those extra transistors such as ML can make a difference is still unknown. Thus I kept saying waiting for 2022/2023 to get an Xbox.

 

[Duchess]

I'm looking forward to seeing how the quality of PS5 titles improves over the years. The PlayStation consoles always seem to have a lot of untapped potential. We'll start seeing some great stuff about 3 years in.

I remember when I saw the first trailer who TLOU2 and was convinced it was running on a PS5. I was bummed at that point thinking that I'd need to wait until I got one of those machines to enjoy the game that way.

 

[Vaztu]

Microsoft is a company that develops "software". I don't see Microsoft collaborating with AMD to develop Hardware, much less the software for that new Hardware. If you have not even had the decency to bother to properly customize DX12U for XSX and have opted to use the generic version designed for PC. That does not mean that it is bad, but it certainly does not look good for a software company to give the impression that it has not made much effort to create decent tools that really measure up to the powerful machine they have bought. That will make that power not squeeze all its performance easily, and less from the beginning. That is the only weak point that I see Microsoft. Power without sufficient short-term control.

All this tools talk remind me of this!

BGs sorry

I'm looking forward to seeing how the quality of PS5 titles improves over the years. The PlayStation consoles always seem to have a lot of untapped potential. We'll start seeing some great stuff about 3 years in.

I remember when I saw the first trailer who TLOU2 and was convinced it was running on a PS5. I was bummed at that point thinking that I'd need to wait until I got one of those machines to enjoy the game that way.

I believe its the Geometry Engine and I/O system that have untapped potential.

 

[BGs]

The heck... so the Pulse 3D contains an accelerometer and gyro solution? Whoa... I am impressed then!!!

I was talking about the system. Thinking in VR.

 

[ethomaz]

Isn't XSX playing it in BC mode as well? I mean it's not like XSX is playing an XSX version of warzone because that ain't out yet!

Different BCs:

Xbox is software emulation... so you can break original hardware limitation.
PS5 is hardware emulation that makes the APU runs exactly like a PS4/PS4 Pro.

PS4/PS4 Pro hardware can’t do 120Hz and in the same sense the BC in PS5 can’t do either unless Activision chances the game to be a PS5 game.

The new CoD in PS5 runs at 4k and 120Hz.

 

[ethomaz]

Infinity Ward hasn't made any comments about it but Rocket League is in this same situation and we have this quote from one of the developers that may explain why there isn't a patch for Warzone:

Basically you need to make a port rather than just a simple patch.

Exactly you need to make the game a PS5 game.

PS4 BC games are limited to PS4 hardware limitations.

 

[BGs]

This technology will be fantastic for VR. I hope the PSVR2 comes with included speakers, Index style.

There is no specific need that requires the PSVR2 to come with embedded headphones that can increase its final price when you can use your own with the same spatial positioning. Because of cost, I don't think they include it. It would be a surprise to me if they did. I think much more important that the system comes without cables.

 

[ethomaz]

Its not necessarily the case Xsex is doing something different to RDNA 2 on PC.

Just that the AMD presentation slides had a block diagram and the ray accelerator unit seemed to be entirely separate from the TMUs and anything else.

Could be something, could be nothing.

That AMD slide could just have been a “logical” diagram but the underlying silicon is co-located with the TMUs.

I personally think AMD might have developed a hybrid solution for consoles because they had to freeze a solution last year and that’s what was in the white paper. Their actual RDNA2 PC GPUs has had more time and could take a more robust approach to compete with nVidia.

AMD RDNA 2 diagram shows RT unit inside TMUs yet.

 

[On Demand]

Different BCs:

Xbox is software emulation... so you can break original hardware limitation.
PS5 is hardware emulation that makes the APU runs exactly like a PS4/PS4 Pro.

PS4/PS4 Pro hardware can’t do 120Hz and in the same sense the BC in PS5 can’t do either unless Activision chances the game to be a PS5 game.

The new CoD in PS5 runs at 4k and 120Hz.

Exactly you need to make the game a PS5 game.

PS4 BC games are limited to PS4 hardware limitations.

But it was said in the DF video that PS4 BC games run at full clocks. Even games without a patch run better.

Besides special cases with some games like AC which run at base PS4 mode. Even then they were still assuming.

 

[ethomaz]

So a simple patch gets 30 FPS to 60fps in games like days gone, ghost of Tsushima but it isn’t possible in warzone for 60 to 120fps, whaaat

PS4 hardware supports 60fps.

GoT is already patched to PS5.

 

[ethomaz]

thats not exactly true, plenty of PS4 games on PS5 use full clocks

The ones that win in Gen2 mode aka Boos Mode.

In Gen1 and Gen0 it uses exactly the same clocks or original hardware.

Gen2 needs patch... Gen1 and Gen0 not.

 

[ethomaz]

But it was said in the DF video that PS4 BC games run at full clocks. Even games without a patch run better.

Besides special cases with some games like AC which run at base PS4 mode. Even then they were still assuming.

CPU clocks is probably full... GPU not.

Patched games uses full GPU and CPU clocks.

Lodtimes did not shows the power of SSD in BC because the original GPU clocks and not the SSD... no matter how fast your SSD is the GPU time will still be the same between BC and original hardware... the data streaming can be super fast but the SSD needs to wait the GPU.

 

[On Demand]

CPU clocks is probably full... GPU not.

Patched games uses full GPU and CPU clocks.

Any game that has unlock frame rate and dynamic resolution has access to PS5 native mode full clocks.

 

[carloseduardocd]

Could some good soul transcript what did the Dirt 5 dev said between 45:09 and 45:21?

I understand he was talking about PS5 has in theory a weaker GPU, but the thermal stuff sounds strange for me. Bypass CPU clock time? What did he said?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Seems like there is some light bleed, however due to the fact, you are my go to TV specialist I saw this TV in action and on the way back I was kind of pissed off at my LG CX, because I like the picture from LCD more But hey, free XSX..................................................................................in december. FUCK ME

CX is wonderful, don't be sad. There is like perfect blacks but crushed details in OLED, there is more details on XH90 but blooming.

There is no perfect TV, but LG C9/CX and Sony XH90 are the tv's to choose from for HDMI 2.1.

 

[ethomaz]

Any game that has unlock frame rate and dynamic resolution has access to PS5 native mode full clocks.

I believe so... that is why Sony released a minor patch to all games with unlocked reaolution/framerate before PS5 launch to support boost mode.

Without patch it will use Gen0 or Gen1 mode where it is hardware emulated the original system.

 

[Boss Mog]

jesus nearly 200k posts in here

 

[ToadMan]

AMD RDNA 2 diagram shows RT unit inside TMUs yet.

Does it? I didn’t see that diagram then.

I saw this one at the AMD RDNA presentation:

 

[ethomaz]

Does it? I didn’t see that diagram then.

I saw this one at the AMD RDNA presentation:

The TMU complex are these rectangles to the right side... just the big last one is not part of it.

RT unit is inside it.

The difference is that AMD uses a big unit while MS uses 4 smaller units?

 

[On Demand]

I believe so... that is why Sony released a minor patch to all games with unlocked reaolution/framerate before PS5 launch to support boost mode.

Without patch it will use Gen0 or Gen1 mode where it is hardware emulated the original system.

I think people are over complicating these modes we don’t see.

Yes you need a patch to unlock the frame rate on certain games. But just because a game isn’t patched doesn’t mean it’s not running full clocks.

 

[BatSu]

 

[Panajev2001a]

I was talking about the system. Thinking in VR.

Ok, I was thinking about the headset outside of VR which is a few mems away and software processing away. Some people having trouble in VR could still enjoy great 3D sound. Oh well, PSVR2 will be awesome!

 

[ToadMan]

Could some good soul transcript what did the Dirt 5 dev said between 45:09 and 45:21?

I understand he was talking about PS5 has in theory a weaker GPU, but the thermal stuff sounds strange for me. Bypass CPU clock time? What did he said?

He’s talking about Sony’s power monitoring, variable clocks and Smartshift integration.

The reason he can’t say more about it is because the algorithms Sony uses to manage that are proprietary.

He goes on to say that code is optimised for the target system and it’s a choice of where to spend resources - his tomb raider xbone example.

Also the interviewer refers to “Dealer” as their tech expert. Video loses all credibility with that comment.

 

[ethomaz]

I think people are over complicating these modes we don’t see.

Yes you need a patch to unlock the frame rate on certain games. But just because a game isn’t patched doesn’t mean it’s not running full clocks.

If the game is running in PS4 BC or PS4 Pro BC modes it is not using full clocks but the original clocks.

Of course you should have some performance gain yet because RDNA 2 IPC is near 50% better than GCN 2.

You need a patch to run in PS5 BC boost mode that uses the full clocks.

Same for CPU I believe... 1.6Ghz in Zen2 is a hell of faster than 1.6Ghz in Jaguar.

 

[ToadMan]

The TMU complex are these rectangles to the right side... just the big last one is not part of it.

RT unit is inside it.

The difference is that AMD uses a big unit while MS uses 4 smaller units?

Yes those are the TMUs.

The RT unit is .... not inside them. According to this diagram.

 

[M1chl]

CX is wonderful, don't be sad. There is like perfect blacks but crushed details in OLED, there is more details on XH90 but blooming.

There is no perfect TV, but LG C9/CX and Sony XH90 are the tv's to choose from for HDMI 2.1.

Honestly I should have asked before jumping on that Poland deal, in my eyes Sony XH90 shows way more natural image. I was really blown away for the price how the image looks. Since then I am tuning my LG CX to look more like it was shown and I followed TV calibration guide, now I feel like borrowing sensor, which is used in graphical studios to calibrate high-end monitors. Cause I am not exactly fond of super vibrat colors, which looks "more real than reality itself". It seems like looking at WW2 document with rainbows and shit.

 

[Fafalada]

it indeed is. And a vary mature one. So can devkit be used to damage control or not?

For what's worth - I've seen a team convert an engine from XDK to GDK in 2-3 weeks (making it ready for a public showing) a bit over a year ago.
Doesn't mean the stack is performance optimal - but it wasn't exactly a case of 'needing time to use the new tools' type of situation either.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

PS4 hardware supports 60fps.

GoT is already patched to PS5.

yes bud but my question is simple. If ps5 BC can help 30fps game boost to 60fps. Why can’t the same bc boost frame rate from 60fps games to 120fps? Like doom, cod, bf are all60fps games. Why can’t they run at higher than 60fps on ps5 via a patch?

 

[MisterXDTV]

yes bud but my question is simple. If ps5 BC can help 30fps game boost to 60fps. Why can’t the same bc boost frame rate from 60fps games to 120fps? Like doom, cod, bf are all60fps games. Why can’t they run at higher than 60fps on ps5 via a patch?

I don't think it can, because the PS4/PS4 Pro hardware CAN'T do 120fps

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

I don't think it can, because the PS4/PS4 Pro hardware CAN'T do 120fps

but we aren’t playing on ps4 now are we, we are playing it on ps5. I just don’t get how it’s possible on xsx but not on ps5

 

[Aceofspades]

Could some good soul transcript what did the Dirt 5 dev said between 45:09 and 45:21?

I understand he was talking about PS5 has in theory a weaker GPU, but the thermal stuff sounds strange for me. Bypass CPU clock time? What did he said?

They asked him about Xbox API not being ready and he answered "not necessarily"

It seems both APIs are in early stages.

 

[Fordino]

Dev kits are very well known to be late/PS5 easier to develop for right now. Devs just need to know how to use the kits, only then will you see X be has impressive, if not more effects in certain areas.

I was specifically talking about DirectX 12, that guy seems to think XBox having DirectX 12 is better.

 

[MisterXDTV]

but we aren’t playing on ps4 now are we, we are playing it on ps5. I just don’t get how it’s possible on xsx but not on ps5

We are playing PS5 in "Backwards compatibility mode" and it's HARDWARE emulation. Not software emulation like Xbox does...

To have 120fps you have to "port" the game to PS5

 

[dimaveshkin]

Different BCs:

Xbox is software emulation... so you can break original hardware limitation.
PS5 is hardware emulation that makes the APU runs exactly like a PS4/PS4 Pro.

PS4/PS4 Pro hardware can’t do 120Hz and in the same sense the BC in PS5 can’t do either unless Activision chances the game to be a PS5 game.

The new CoD in PS5 runs at 4k and 120Hz.

I believe COD is not 4K/120, it's 1080p/120 at the moment

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Honestly I should have asked before jumping on that Poland deal, in my eyes Sony XH90 shows way more natural image. I was really blown away for the price how the image looks. Since then I am tuning my LG CX to look more like it was shown and I followed TV calibration guide, now I feel like borrowing sensor, which is used in graphical studios to calibrate high-end monitors. Cause I am not exactly fond of super vibrat colors, which looks "more real than reality itself". It seems like looking at WW2 document with rainbows and shit.

Yeah Sony TV's are generally the best in terms of color accuracy out of the box. But you can get yours calibrated by a pro if someone around you. Actually I never heard of one here, there might be some but never heard about it so I'll go XH90 or wait for 2021 models.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

How’s software emulation being better than hardware emulation here? I’m trying to understand this, finding it silly that software emulation on xsx makes games benefit higher frame rates easily than hardware emulation.

 

[Mr Moose]

hmmm, just noticed this

Error or not?

edit: this is from ps5 store

edit 2: pretty sure it is the same mistake. This is what it looks like after explore now. (Canadian price)

On this page for me, it shows timed exclusives under that:

The best PS5 games - new, pre-order & upcoming | PlayStation

Discover the best games to play on PS5 and VR2, including our newest exclusives and exciting indies, out now or available for pre-order.

www.playstation.com

PlayStation console exclusive games from our partners*

Use the tabs to explore a range of PlayStation 5 console exclusive games and PlayStation console exclusive games.

*Not available on other consoles for a limited time. Also available on PC.

 

[MisterXDTV]

How’s software emulation being better than hardware emulation here? I’m trying to understand this, finding it silly that software emulation on xsx makes games benefit higher frame rates easily than hardware emulation.

Hardware emulation is locked to the specs of the original machine(s). the PS4 Pro max output is 2160p/60. The standard PS4 max output is 1080p/60

 

[M1chl]

Yeah Sony TV's are general the best in terms of color accuracy out of the box. But you can get yours calibrated by a pro if someone around you. Actually I never heard of one here, there might be some but never heard about it so I'll go XH90 or wait for 2021 models.

I have to agree with that, it's so good, that it should be pinned in this subsection of forum for those who buy new TV and the most ridiculous thing is that the TV is actually really cheap. True product for a working class : D

 

[Rea]

Could some good soul transcript what did the Dirt 5 dev said between 45:09 and 45:21?

I understand he was talking about PS5 has in theory a weaker GPU, but the thermal stuff sounds strange for me. Bypass CPU clock time? What did he said?

He's talking about smart shift nothing new bro.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I have to agree with that, it's so good, that it should be pinned in this subsection of forum for those who buy new TV and the most ridiculous thing is that the TV is actually really cheap. True product for a working class : D

Actually there is a new trend now, OLED owners are the new PCMR. So there are OLED fanboys.

I think X900H is the best bang for the buck, and the better deal for longevity and no burn-in BS, also much better motion control with no OLED stutter. But overall there is no perfect TV.

 

[ethomaz]

Yes those are the TMUs.

The RT unit is .... not inside them. According to this diagram.

You need to look at the block division... before RT and before the big unit at end is a block division... all that inside is the same block.

To understand better.

The green part at end is a block... before the cache... the RT is part of that block.... the TMU is that big green square + the 4 smaller one... there is 4 in the CU.

The difference I see is AMD shows 1 RT shared with 4 TMUs and Xbox 1 RX per TMU.

It is the same on nVidia... RT is with TMU block.

The RT intersections are made at that phase so the hardware needs to be together with TMUs... it can’t be in other place.

 

[M1chl]

Actually there is a new trend now, OLED owners are the new PCMR. So there are OLED fanboys.

I think X900H is the best band for the buck, and the better deal for longevity and no burn-in BS, also much better motion control with no OLED stutter. But overall there is no perfect TV.

I am defnitely OLED fanboy, because I see the differences. However my GF really likes that colors, good thing there is multiple modes here.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I am defnitely OLED fanboy, because I see the differences. However my GF really likes that colors, good thing there is multiple modes here.

I go with Sony because I use my TV as a monitor, so I need that color accuracy for photo/video editing. And turn off all BS and noise reduction and stuff when using PC mode. It has a dedicated mode called "Graphics" mode for PC and productivity which is the most accurate between all modes:

 

[iamvin22]

How is that "weird"?
This is how new generations are most of the time fortunately lol

Dude says a lot of weird things so yea