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[Airbus Jr]

Gona wait for Cyberpunk 2077 comparison

If another similar result happens then issues isnt with Ubisoft or Codemaster

 

[M_A_C]

You have to be an absolute dunce to believe that faster storage IO would produce better rendering. Just go ahead and say it. Just say it.

"Secret sauce"

You people sound like fools. And the infuriating thing is that six months from now, you will be no where to be found.

Yeah we are fools when you do not know that I/O subsystem includes how memory, GPU, CPU, and everything else transfer data and interact with each other.

 

[Dnice123]

To be fair the differences are not big they are actually quite small. But I understand if you felt like Greenburg mislead you with his comments.

I agree that Microsoft needs to clarify a few things. If they only said "most powerful Xbox" there wouldn't be any issues.

What ever the differences were going to be it was thought to be in the Series X favor.
Power has been the narrative they've gone with and have failed miserably out the gate. Yeah, yeah the tools will get better, but so will the PS5 tools. This is the difference in having someone who's actual developed games designing your hardware vs MS hardware engineers focusing on meaningless power numbers and feature sets.

Sad.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Gona wait for Cyberpunk 2077 comparison

If another similar result happens then issues isnt with Ubisoft or Codemaster

Watchdogs will probably be the next comparison that we will get. Also Cyberpunk isn't getting the next gen updates until after the game releases.

 

[sircaw]

I woke up this morning not knowing what kind of day it was going to be.

I can honestly say with hand on heart, Today has been a good day, a very good day.

For those of you that did not have a great day, i hope tomorrow brings better news for you all.

Now where is that watch dogs comparison video from digital foundry.

 

[Thief1987]

Lower texture filtering is the most baffling to me, because it's a memory bandwidth starved feature, and SX have an advantage here. Maybe this "split" memory pool wasn't good idea in the end of the day.

 

[MasterCornholio]

What ever the differences were going to be it was thought to be in the Series X favor.
Power has been the narrative they've gone with and have failed miserably out the gate. Yeah, yeah the tools will get better, but so will the PS5 tools. This is the difference in having someone who's actual developed games designing your hardware vs MS hardware engineers focusing on meaningless power numbers and feature sets.

Sad.

They are not wrong there. But having full RDNA2 integration doesn't exactly guarantee the best peformance. While the competition is on fake RDNA2 they have their own sets of customizations that Xbox doesn't have.

 

[Neo Blaster]

2013: resolution gate
2020: tools gate

MS can't catch a break...

 

[Airbus Jr]

CoD Cold War also have some serious image stutter on Series X

 

[silent head]

optimized for Series X

 

[geordiemp]

So in other words, "PS5 secret sauce"?

Its not that secret, there are a few Cerny / Naught dog patents. Have you read them ?

I can explain them to you if it helps you understand, or I posted threads about this 4 months ago on GAF....

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Yet again, another win for the best place to play multiplats.

PlayStation is tearing Xbox apart in these next-gen comparisons

 

[Alphagear]

I wonder what is the issue?

Clockspeeds of the GPU?

Similar to CPUs where 6 core higher clocked Ryzens perform better than 8 core lower clocked Ryzens for gaming?

 

[ethomaz]

Watchdogs will probably be the next comparison that we will get. Also Cyberpunk isn't getting the next gen updates until after the game releases.

Maybe DF hold the most different comparison for late... that why DMC5 was posted pretty fast and the others are taking sometime.

We already know CoD favor PS5 too.
And there are rumors saying Watch Dogs perform better on PS5.

 

[Vaztu]

MS hardware engineers focusing on meaningless power numbers and feature sets.
Sad.

I don't blame them. This incompetence comes from the very top. Phil

 

[NullZ3r0]

6 months?

Is that when Colts update is arriving?

Just saying I haven't heard anything from Microsoft about that. Just wondering where you got the 6 months from.



Both systems have secret sauce. An example of secret sauce in the XSX is SFS.

There's nothing "secret" about SFS. AMD's new chips use it.

What's PS5's secret sauce that makes it process better geometry than Series X? There's some bold assumptions being suggested in this thread.

Are you Sony fanboys seriously suggesting that some cross gen launch titles are indicative of a clear PS5 hardware advantage?

If that's the case, six months from now (an arbitrary time period I picked that's comfortably outside the launch window), we should see multiplatform titles consistently outperform Xbox Series versions.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Gona wait for Cyberpunk 2077 comparison

If another similar result happens then issues isnt with Ubisoft or Codemaster

DF are doing COD: CW or WD next, it'll be the same thing.

 

[pratyush]

This was embarassing. DF are almost embarrassed talking about XSX.

 

[NullZ3r0]

Yeah we are fools when you do not know that I/O subsystem includes how memory, GPU, CPU, and everything else transfer data and interact with each other.

Xbox Series X has the faster CPU, GPU and the faster memory, two of the main components that actually have to do with graphics processing.

So using Occam's Razor as a principle, what am I to believe? That the PS5's SSD somehow includes a hidden GPU or that Sony's hardware was done months before Microsoft's and therefore the dev tools that were used to create these launch games were more mature on the Sony end?

From MS themselves:

In our quest to put gamers and developers first we chose to wait for the most advanced technology from our partners at AMD before finalizing our architecture.

Taken from:
A Closer Look at How Xbox Series X|S Integrates Full AMD RDNA 2 Architecture - Xbox Wire

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

How many examples do we need before DF stop saying there's weirdness going on and Richard awkwardly giggling in the background before they address the fact PS5 is significantly more powerful than most people and they themselves thought.

They hyped up the consoles power also remember.

Cu utilisation,caches scrubbers, better caching faster clocks meaning faster caches and rest of the gpu runs faster. So many things make up performance.

As Cerny said its dangerous to rely on teraflops as an absolute indicator of performance.

He wasn't damage controlling like xbox fanboys thought at the time, so focused and hyped about their teraflops and 'power advantage'.

All the evidence was right there that they would be closer than suggested, if only some would have listened. Also that xbox may have bottlenecks and also not be as easy to code for as PS5 all the devs said it yet it was dismissed.

PS5 is absolutely smashing it, a clear winner in performance so far.

 

[RoboFu]

MS has a 12 tf console that acts more like an 8 tf one. Idk if it’s a premature sdk or just a bad hardware design but I hope me gets things worked out sooner than later for their sake.

 

[Black_Stride]

Microsoft should discontinue Series S asap. Its just more hassle for developers. Let them focus on XSX.

Too late for that now.

Just keep letting devs go down to 500p.
The people buying Series S consoles dont care about the things GAF cares about.
They will never watch a DF comparison because why would they........they just want to play the game.


Think of it as the people who buy NOT iPhones or S20s, they dont care that their screen doesnt refresh at 120hz, or that mobile game isnt at peak graphical settings.

They are happy the device does everything they want it to do.

The Series S plays nextgen videogames, at a lower resolution than the bigger consoles but if they actually cared about that they wouldnt have bought the damn thing.

 

[Mitsuda Maniac]

There's nothing "secret" about SFS. AMD's new chips use it.

What's PS5's secret sauce that makes it process better geometry than Series X? There's some bold assumptions being suggested in this thread.

Are you Sony fanboys seriously suggesting that some cross gen launch titles are indicative of a clear PS5 hardware advantage?

If that's the case, six months from now (an arbitrary time period I picked that's comfortably outside the launch window), we should see multiplatform titles consistently outperform Xbox Series versions.

Once devs see that the PS5 is making them more money by being the system with better sales the gap will only widen if anything.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

Is that a fiesta on the series x? Can't quite make out the writing....

 

[iamvin22]

Slightly lower details on Series X version and tearing. Must be waiting for them tools.

EDIT: Actually hugely lower details in performance mode holy shit I missed that.

Haha. It's literally night and day difference.


Edit: Sony has been calling. Not sure if I can go back as I still take care of my boy. Still undecided. If I do I won't be able to post much as the project + my boy will demand a lot of time. If so it's been fun. #Bo be good

 

[Aceofspades]

I love how @Hix jumped into this thread basically saying PS5/XSX are equal then fled the thread LMAO

 

[MasterCornholio]

There's nothing "secret" about SFS. AMD's new chips use it.

What's PS5's secret sauce that makes it process better geometry than Series X? There's some bold assumptions being suggested in this thread.

Are you Sony fanboys seriously suggesting that some cross gen launch titles are indicative of a clear PS5 hardware advantage?

If that's the case, six months from now (an arbitrary time period I picked that's comfortably outside the launch window), we should see multiplatform titles consistently outperform Xbox Series versions.

I just pay attention to what Mark said about the GE in the PS5. I know that it's new in the system because he said so. And the big thing that he said about it is that it's fully programmable. Now I have no idea how it compares to the XSXs geometry engine. All I know is that culling primitives is it's main function and it's fully programmable.

I don't appreciate the insults though since I didn't mean you any disrespect from my comments.

Digital Foundry already talked about what secret sauce is and it's purpose in consoles. Heck even Lisa Su talked about special sauce in the PS5.

“What we have done with Sony is really architect something for their application, for their special sauce,” she said. “It’s a great honor for us. We’re really excited about what the next generation PlayStation will do.”

Both systems have their own special sauce due to the customizations that each have.

On paper the XSX is the most powerful console and it's supposed to be around 50% more powerful than the PS5 according to people like Dealer and Colt Eastwood. So far they haven't proved that yet and it appears to be similar in power to the PS5. That could change in the future but so far we haven't seen any proof of that yet.

I'm just happy that most of the negative rumors were false and the PS5 isn't a disaster that some people made it out to be.

With that said I don't think the XSX is a bad system. Maybe it doesn't live up to the marketing but it's still a great system to play games on. It certainly does have alot of advantages over the PS5 like having VRR at launch for example. Backwards compatibility has more features than the PS5 does so thats a good bonus as well.

Hopefully I managed to clear things up for you.

 

[TBiddy]

So using Occam's Razor as a principle, what am I to believe? That the PS5's SSD somehow includes a hidden GPU or that Sony's hardware was done months before Microsoft's and therefore the dev tools that were used to create these launch games were more mature on the Sony end?

Dont you dare ruin the narrative with that logic of yours. It's more fun to ramble about Phil Spencer being incompetent, Cerny being a god or other incoherent things coming from the foaming mouths of fanboys.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Once devs see that the PS5 is making them more money by being the system with better sales the gap will only widen if anything.

Yes I am also sure the potential of the Geometry Engine hasn't even been touched upon yet as it's so low level. A bit like the PS4's extra compute units that saw games go from Uncharted 4 early gen to Ghost of Tsushima late gen. U4 looked incredible at the time and still looks good. But GoT is another level again.

Same will happen here, if you think Demon's Souls looks good (likely best looking game ever on console), 4 years from now will be nuts.

 

[Yoboman]

How many examples do we need before DF stop saying there's weirdness going on and Richard awkwardly giggling in the background before they address the fact PS5 is significantly more powerful than most people and they themselves thought.

They hyped up the consoles power also remember.

Cu utilisation,caches scrubbers, better caching faster clocks meaning faster caches and rest of the gpu runs faster. So many things make up performance.

As Cerny said its dangerous to rely on teraflops as an absolute indicator of performance.

He wasn't damage controlling like xbox fanboys thought at the time, so focused and hyped about their teraflops and 'power advantage'.

All the evidence was right there that they would be closer than suggested, if only some would have listened. Also that xbox may have bottlenecks and also not be as easy to code for as PS5 all the devs said it yet it was dismissed.

PS5 is absolutely smashing it, a clear winner in performance so far.

If things aren't easily digestible as a single number, then clearly its a bug

 

[sircaw]

Dont you dare ruin the narrative with that logic of yours. It's more fun to ramble about Phil Spencer being incompetent, Cerny being a god or other incoherent things coming from the foaming mouths of fanboys.

Great song just for you T-dog.

 

[cebri.one]

That's like saying that comparing PS4 PRO to base PS4 is useless... it's pretty simple , one is better.

No, a comparison between PS4 Pro vs base PS4 in terms of framerate is not useless as long as both versions run the game at the same resolution and graphical settings. In this comparison the XBSX is clearly running with lower graphical settings than the PS5 so, again, in terms of framerate is not a fair comparison.

It's like saying my 2060 is faster than a 3080 because I manage to get 60fps on the game X while rendering it at 1080p with low settings, while the 3080 only manages to get 30 fps while using the highest graphical settings at 4K res with RTX. It's not hard to understand why that comparison would be useless.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

They just can't stand ps5 version looks better.

"It's illogical! It must be a bug!"

I have a time machine

A DF video many years from now....

850 comparisons on....

Here we see the PS5 version running better than series x once again, I know its the end of the console generation now, 6 years on, but looks like the tools still aren't ready and are not unlocking those teraflops and also there must be bugs, its the only explanation.

 

[TGO]

 

[Topher]

There's nothing "secret" about SFS. AMD's new chips use it.

What's PS5's secret sauce that makes it process better geometry than Series X? There's some bold assumptions being suggested in this thread.

Are you Sony fanboys seriously suggesting that some cross gen launch titles are indicative of a clear PS5 hardware advantage?

If that's the case, six months from now (an arbitrary time period I picked that's comfortably outside the launch window), we should see multiplatform titles consistently outperform Xbox Series versions.

The Geometry Engine isn't secret either. There is a patent for it:

http://images2.freshpatents.com/pdf/US20180047129A1.pdf

Six months from now everything can be different. We see differences in straight up comparisons of PC GPUs from one game to another all the time so no idea why you think there is going to be anything "consistent" about this at all when you we are talking about comparing entire systems and not just one component.

 

[Yoboman]

Xbox Series X has the faster CPU, GPU and the faster memory, two of the main components that actually have to do with graphics processing.

So using Occam's Razor as a principle, what am I to believe? That the PS5's SSD somehow includes a hidden GPU or that Sony's hardware was done months before Microsoft's and therefore the dev tools that were used to create these launch games were more mature on the Sony end?

From MS themselves:



Taken from:
A Closer Look at How Xbox Series X|S Integrates Full AMD RDNA 2 Architecture - Xbox Wire

I love how you think Occam's razor would mean that Xbox has a gigantic tools problem that inhibited some of the most expensive games in the world to such a drastic extent that it took a platform with an apparently massive performance advantage down to having a massive disadvantage. Such a simple explanation!

Rather than Occam's razor being that the most powerful system is producing the better looking versions. As it has always been

 

[Yoboman]

Dont you dare ruin the narrative with that logic of yours. It's more fun to ramble about Phil Spencer being incompetent, Cerny being a god or other incoherent things coming from the foaming mouths of fanboys.

Why do you strut around pretending to be impartial? Nobody is falling for the shtick, TBiddy

 

[OccamsLightsaber]

Looks like Cerney last minute overclocked the PS5 for no reason.

 

[paypay88]

Xbox Series X has the faster CPU, GPU and the faster memory, two of the main components that actually have to do with graphics processing.

So using Occam's Razor as a principle, what am I to believe? That the PS5's SSD somehow includes a hidden GPU or that Sony's hardware was done months before Microsoft's and therefore the dev tools that were used to create these launch games were more mature on the Sony end?

From MS themselves:



Taken from:
A Closer Look at How Xbox Series X|S Integrates Full AMD RDNA 2 Architecture - Xbox Wire

Series X doesn't have faster memory
It has

• Memory Bandwidth: 10GB @ 560 GB/s, 6GB @ 336 GB/s.

While PS5 has 16 GB @ 440 GB/.s

6GB is %40 of System memory which is painfully slow to rest %60. PS5 is better to optimize bandwith wise and this will be case for all gen (beside exclusives which only optimise for 2 devices)

 

[Thirty7ven]

Dont you dare ruin the narrative with that logic of yours. It's more fun to ramble about Phil Spencer being incompetent, Cerny being a god or other incoherent things coming from the foaming mouths of fanboys.

Logic? What logic? The only logic being applied is that since XSX has 18% more theoretical Teraflops, then it has to perform better than PS5.

That’s logic for you?

 

[Aceofspades]

Abou that.

Shouldn't this be a direct result to PS5 ultra fast I/O solution? Bringing high quality models with no loss?
Wasn't UE5 demo revolving around this idea? Maybe XSX couldn't keep up especially at very high fps and devs had to lower assets for this very reason.

 

[freefornow]

This is not how you start a new generation.
Becoming the norm for multiplats. MS need to say something in relation to this (and not marketing BS).
Beards may get shaved!

 

[Aceofspades]

This is not how you start a new generation.
Becoming the norm for multiplats. MS need to say something in relation to this (and not marketing BS).
Beards may get shaved!

I understood this reference. MS should hire Mark Cerny to design next Xbox if there was a next Xbox

 

[phil_t98]

so they said they are confident that these issues are going to be patched out, nobody believe them or summit?

 

[cebri.one]

I would pay to have a look at Codemaster's profiling tools to see what is going on behind the hood.

 

[The_Mike]

Missing a lot more than that...

Graphics so sharp you can count the polygons.

It does seem weird though, that Forza on xbox one x looks prettier than this. It seems pretty off. The graphics should be a upgrade not a downgrade.

 

[kyoji]

It's because of people like you, and so many others here, that have the gall to go bother them. They have to take care to not hurt your feelings, right?
But about the quote, you're wrong, I made my comment thinking about the past.
At that time (at least in some places) was discussed how the PS3 was not only harder to program, but also how it's development tools where behind those of Microsoft to the point of Sony needed to create the famous ICE team to create solutions and help developers. But the problem was that wasn't just easier to program for the X360 in general, it also had the aggravating detail that it's SO not only was offering less features for the player, it was doing that reserving a LOT more RAM.
Do you believe it? That the X360 OS used 32MB while the PS3 OS used 120MB?
With time new firmwares freed more RAM and the games improved because of this. I remember them getting to decrease the OS to 50MB at some point, don't remember if they managed to optimize more.

So, these things happen.
You people can't be serious believing that the Performance mode on SeX is anything but and error. It's shameful that it shipped this way but it's very clear that the game is using the wrong settings and we can't know yet how the SeX truly performs in this mode compared with the PS5.
Careful to not get too excited because there's the real possibility that updates coming soon will iron all these problems and make things work as intended and the tables will turn. If this happen what will you all say?

The whole point leading up to these launches was that ps5 according to the transformers would be significantly weaker in most to all aspects, so achieving parity or a slight advantage on the series x is hardly a win or anything to gloat about when this whole time leading up until now, the point of topic was how much more powerful the series x is over ps5. Or maybe you just missed those discussions? surely you did not i saw your name in a a few of them.

 

[diffusionx]

Colt Eastwood says Dirt 5 on Series X is running at 60%. Only reason why it's close to parity with the PS5 version.

A guy with a name like Colt Eastwood should be out hunting tigers and banging models, not secret saucing console wars.

 

[Schmick]

You have to be an absolute dunce to believe that faster storage IO would produce better rendering. Just go ahead and say it. Just say it.

"Secret sauce"

You people sound like fools. And the infuriating thing is that six months from now, you will be no where to be found.

What do you mean 'no where to be found'?

 

[Thirty7ven]

Colt Eastwood says Dirt 5 on Series X is running at 60%. Only reason why it's close to parity with the PS5 version.

From mouth breather to mouth breathers. Colt and his audience are embarrassing.