lepermessiah
Member
That many still don't get this is astonishing. It's like looking purely at the horsepower of a car in judging its performance.
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Ok, We need to know this: Is the XSX more powerful than the PS5 or not?
- Thread starter //DEVIL//
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That many still don't get this is astonishing. It's like looking purely at the horsepower of a car in judging its performance.
Cherrypepsi
Member
of course I was talking about the native version.
the BC version uses the CPU because it thinks there is a HDD.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
It's not that they don't get get it, but that they are just repeating what they were told by Xbox PR. And for them to admit they were wrong would mean admitting Xbox PR is wrong. That leads to a dark place for them.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Well, there's an easy answer if that's what they're doing: Series S. Primitive culling and triangle rasterization rates are affected by the clock rate times the primitives rate per clock, which for RDNA2 is 8. Since Series S has a 1.565 GHz clock that lowers the primitive culling rate (lower geometry levels), which also affects the rasterization rate (it's half the culling rate, so max of 4 primitives per clock).
Other things like the texture fillrate are affected by the number of TMUs and clock rate so, again, Series S with the low 1.565 GHz clock affects the texel rate which can impact detail levels. It was probably easier for Codemasters to target Series S as base and then take the path of least resistance scaling up to Series X, which would've meant keeping the same level of detail to guarantee 120 FPS and higher resolution.
I think you're probably going to see choices like this from a few more 3P games at least for the first year, just to be safe, and it's something Microsoft likely factored into possibly happening when making two consoles with wildly different GPU power capabilities. However it also means you will have some teams that, for this launch period, literally take something targeting Series S and go with the easiest means of scaling up for Series X, rather than tailoring performance for the Series X version, particularly if they're crunched for time.
John Wick
Member
Wow! Think about what you wrote here and see the silly mistake you made? Your comparing the total speed of car vs one theoretical compute part of the GPU and not the whole GPU.
It's pretty much impossible for it to be just for the I/O lol either way it will affect the OS & Games
geordiemp
Member
Nothing to do with the CPU really, its the 52 CU arrangement - 14 CU per shader array to make 4 shader arrays in XSX, the primatives and stuff is per shader array again to keep 4, RDNA2 is per Shader engine.
Go look at all RDNA 2 parts for PC now and upcoming, all 10 CU per array and font /back is per shader engine.
Go look at VEGA and server parts CU per array good for servers....bigger arrays....go figure.
If AMD, Sony or anyone using RDNA1 or RDNA2 was making a PC part or a console with 60CU and some CU disabled, I bet my house, car and everything it would be 6 shader arrays x 10 CU.
Lastly, read Cerny and Naughty dog discussion to why the standard technique (200a) and 10 Cu per shader array is an issue for gaming below (part of the patent solution)
Now, increase those bottlenecks to 14 CU sharing LDS and parameter cache and there you go.
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JackMcGunns
Member
Whaaa? the theoretical FP is the whole GPU.
GPU clock x Shaders x Flops per cycle = Theoretical FP performance.
Memory bandwidth also plays a role and well, XSX has 560GB/s bandwidth across 10GB of memory. Considering Assassins Creed Valhalla uses 6GB of VRAM at best, Series X has no issue running full bandwidth.
My example above was an oversimplified way of answering the question. If we optimize both consoles to the point where they both reach their theoretical max, the PS5 will reach 10TF before XSX reaches 12TF, it’s simple logic, Capice?
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John Wick
Member
So show me a game that only uses the floating point compute power? If like you say the contest was just FP then the SX has theoretically more if it can be maxed out which is highly unlikely.
A GPU is more than just CU's and compute but I'm sure you knew that. Teraflops are meaningless on their own as they are just one metric of GPU and a console is only as good as the sum of it's parts.
Also for games unlike a car the API, dev tools and coding to the metal play a huge part. PS5 has an advantage here.
existensmaximum
Member
Also, iPhone vs Android performance comes to mind. Raw specs vs real world...
MilkyJoe
Member
geordiemp
Member
One day you will type more than 3 word responses, but I guess that is a bit tough for you.
Tell us about why physics is physics, you say that often but obviously cannot string words together never mind anything meaningful.
Should we just go Uggg Uggg to you ?
Can you follow what we are talking about in this thread ? You make Riky look like a nunclear physicist.
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MilkyJoe
Member
It's the weekend, Mr S, I'm out and about, i don't have time to argue over toys
VectorVictor
Member
In a sea of Sony Fanboi flaming, this rational, sane response and pragmatic look stands out above the rest.
Amen
Riky
$MSFT
Says the idiot who said PS4 was going to be the full RDNA2 reveal at the AMD unveiling and even had a stupid countdown of the days to his theory proving he knows nothing.
The guy who said with his incredible technological insight that PS4 games would load on PS5 in ONE SECOND.
Tickle My Tendies
Member
Ok fellas, it's been 18 pages. What is the verdict? Who wins???? HUH????? WHOSE DICK DO I SUCK????
MasterCornholio
Member
From my point of view. Neither has done enough to prove that they are vastly more powerful than the other.
geordiemp
Member
Says the idiot who said PS4 was going to be the full RDNA2 reveal at the AMD unveiling and even had a stupid countdown of the days to his theory proving he knows nothing.
The guy who said with his incredible technological insight that PS4 games would load on PS5 in ONE SECOND.
What, what on earth are you blabbing about now, you really are a dunce head.
I was counting down to the RDNA2 reveal which would show those with SOME hardware education that XSX was indeed a server part, was not fine clock gated and was heavy in shader array CU count and indeed its wavefronts are not RDNA2 and XSX would not perform.
You, being the simpleton, has to think in TF or simple marketing terms for the sheeple, so full RDNA2 was your thought and you were happy. The PC parts being fine clock gated and front / back arranged per Shader engine just flew over your head....... You were actually proclaiming RDNA2 full power, you are so dumb it splits my sides and I was laughing my head off.
You probably dont even know what a wavefront is, never mind primatives and what RDNa2 is actually doing and how it differs from XSX;
I actually tick tocked to RDNA reveal and the first comparisons where i said ps5 would be same or better than XSX many months ago, because I actualy UNDERSTOOD what was being said and the nuances. I knew what was coming....You did not.
Continue in ignorance my friend, yes XSX is FULL RDNA2 and it has dat RDNA2 full POAWA......
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Riky
$MSFT
You're a complete liar, you didn't mention the PS4 games loading time thing, wonder why......because it was obvious to anyone with a brain PS4 games would not load in one second but you ran with it
You were counting down to what you believed would be the big PS5/AMD reveal and ended up with egg on your face in a big way, everybody saw it.
geordiemp
Member
You're a complete liar, you didn't mention the PS4 games loading time thing, wonder why......because it was obvious to anyone with a brain PS4 games would not load in one second but you ran with it
You were counting down to what you believed would be the big PS5/AMD reveal and ended up with egg on your face in a big way, everybody saw it.
Some ps4 games do load in 2 seconds, ghosts of tsushima and spiderman etc that use ps5 file system, but not every dev is Sony..... so what, All I did was predict what was possible, not how many devs would be arsed to do it.
I aslo predicted ps5 would punch above expecatton, and XSX below expectation, and explained why countless times before it was fashoinable to do so many many moths ago...... How did I know ?
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It's not early development it's because PS5 was better designed for straight forward rendering Xbox Series X has a compute advantage while PS5 has a pixel fill rate , geometry rendering & internal cache advantage.
I didn't include Xbox Series X Main RAM advantage because it's hard to say if it really is a advantage because of the way it is set up & PS5 has on chip SRAM.
I told you people months before the games started coming out that PS5 was going to have the rendering advantage.
Dave_at_Home
Member
Maybe. Possibly. Probably not. It's hard to tell, but if there's one thing we do know about the PS5 hardware, without the need of an x-ray die shot, it's how the PS5's cache scrubbers allow for a substantial reduction in GPU overhead. Not to mention the geometry engine does all the things RDNA2 offers with the added benefit of culling before it even hits the graphics pipeline. I just don't see "tools" as a legitimate excuse. You saw the difference in performance between PS4 and Xbox One early on in cross-gen titles and I don't see that changing here. I think it's simply Sony has the more efficient machine while Microsoft keeps thing more traditional in keeping with PC and their Xcloud servers. They achieve almost similar performance at the end of the day. Series X does have compute advantage if games can parallelize that, while Sony has sheer data throughput advantage. When it comes to third-party these consoles will end up closer than PS4 and Xbox One.
anothertech
Member
Hey, no one expected ps5 to utilize RDNA3 so give the guy a break..Says the idiot who said PS4 was going to be the full RDNA2 reveal at the AMD unveiling and even had a stupid countdown of the days to his theory proving he knows nothing.
The guy who said with his incredible technological insight that PS4 games would load on PS5 in ONE SECOND.
Xbox Series S/X hardware isn't exactly traditional it also has hardware changes to make up for some shortcomings.
JackMcGunns
Member
The man is quite literally asking which console is better optimized by asking which will reach its limit first. If PS5 was engineered correctly, then developers are hitting much closer to its theoretical max, unless you're arguing that its poorly designed and developers are way off the mark and have a much longer way to go before the PS5 is optimal. XSX is said to be more complex with its split memory design and tools that also focus on other consoles, so it's pretty common knowledge that the PS5 is all around hitting closer to its max potential whereas XBX has a steeper hill to climb. Whether you believe XSX will surpass PS5 or not is a different discussion.
Dave_at_Home
Member
Yes, it does have its tweaks. They needed to for console use when you consider it's based on their XCloud servers. That synergy makes sense for their grand plans of play anywhere.
Yeah they came into this generation with low expectations for Xbox Series X/S & did things in a way that even if none of the consoles sold they can still use the hardware.
bitbydeath
Member
The man is quite literally asking which console is better optimized by asking which will reach its limit first. If PS5 was engineered correctly, then developers are hitting much closer to its theoretical max, unless you're arguing that its poorly designed and developers are way off the mark and have a much longer way to go before the PS5 is optimal. XSX is said to be more complex with its split memory design and tools that also focus on other consoles, so it's pretty common knowledge that the PS5 is all around hitting closer to its max potential whereas XBX has a steeper hill to climb. Whether you believe XSX will surpass PS5 or not is a different discussion.
PS5 does have more room to grow as the architecture setup is brand new which devs aren’t taking advantage of yet. (Think UE5 demo, that is the future of gaming)
Xbox is very much built against the tried and true standards of today.
Consoles have always been known to punch above their weight because they (No longer applies to XSX) code to the metal. We’ve seen numerous examples of this in the past where people are wowed by how much consoles can do with so little. (Last of Us on 512MB for example)
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John Wick
Member
Amen to that 56 CU's. Can you just explain to me as to when MS waited for AMD to finalise the spec for RDNA2. This excuse gets used all the time but as far as I know that specs are finalised years in advance. Do you think it was June 2020? Because good old Phil was saying he was taking the SX unit home in Dec 2019.
John Wick
Member
No he wasn't. He was saying the PS5 will reach it's limit first and SX has far more potential to reach. That's not correct as you keep on only thinking of teraflops. Teraflops don't measure a game. PS5 has unique features like the Geometry engine, possible unified CPU cache and a host of IO advantages. Not to mention world leading SSD and throughput. With the the added advantage of writing to the metal thus removing another layer of bottleneck. The PS5 has just as much if not more potential than SX.
The man is quite literally asking which console is better optimized by asking which will reach its limit first. If PS5 was engineered correctly, then developers are hitting much closer to its theoretical max, unless you're arguing that its poorly designed and developers are way off the mark and have a much longer way to go before the PS5 is optimal. XSX is said to be more complex with its split memory design and tools that also focus on other consoles, so it's pretty common knowledge that the PS5 is all around hitting closer to its max potential whereas XBX has a steeper hill to climb. Whether you believe XSX will surpass PS5 or not is a different discussion.
John Wick
Member
Riky if Miles Morales loads in 2-3 secs then PS4 games properly optimized would load in less time duhYou're a complete liar, you didn't mention the PS4 games loading time thing, wonder why......because it was obvious to anyone with a brain PS4 games would not load in one second but you ran with it
You were counting down to what you believed would be the big PS5/AMD reveal and ended up with egg on your face in a big way, everybody saw it.
Leyasu
Banned
Phil took home a working prototype not a retail console.
Obviously RDNA 2 was finalized before this year, but it doesn't mean to say that everything was ready. The ps3 was delayed for a part on the blu ray drive. Things like that happen all the time.
Why are you asking about that in this thread? It isn’t relevant.
Leyasu
Banned
No dev or console is anywhere nears it's potential yet and won't be for a little while. Even if the PS5 is easier to develop for, the software will still get better and better as the gen progresses. Same on both consoles.
The man is quite literally asking which console is better optimized by asking which will reach its limit first. If PS5 was engineered correctly, then developers are hitting much closer to its theoretical max, unless you're arguing that its poorly designed and developers are way off the mark and have a much longer way to go before the PS5 is optimal. XSX is said to be more complex with its split memory design and tools that also focus on other consoles, so it's pretty common knowledge that the PS5 is all around hitting closer to its max potential whereas XBX has a steeper hill to climb. Whether you believe XSX will surpass PS5 or not is a different discussion.
Schmick
Member
I've seen "Phil took the XBX home in Dec 2019" mentioned a few times but we have no idea what he was able to do with it. For all we know he could only play BC games on it.
FrankWza
Member
Where were you for the last 6 months when the narrative was PS5 was going to be blown out right out of the gate and x was the place for multiplat? Where will you be in 21/22 when your prediction doesn’t come to be?
DarkMage619
$MSFT
Well you'd figure that the better console would play all games... better. I've seen everything from server parts, to no customizations on the XSX so PS5 should be lapping the Xbox easily. Maybe we'll just have to see how the games turn out.
lepermessiah
Member
The systems are so close and each will have their respective advantages over the other. That's really all there is to it. At the end of the day, it's the games. Show me the games.
I can agree with this.
That question was still irrelevant, that's a question about BC, support for BC.
I guess some of y'all really are confused about BC and the performance of the next gen consoles.
Interesting.
MasterCornholio
Member
With last gen the differences were pretty clear from the very beginning due to the resolution differences between the PS4 and the X1. But this time around both versions are so close that it's hard to say which one is better. This could change in the future but I've never seen it happen before. It's not like in a year or two we will suddenly have a delta of 50% between the two systems.
RCU005
Member
It's about the games, not the power. Of course the power is great to have, but the reason I still buy Nintendo consoles is because of their first party games (and sometimes great third party games) regardless of how powerful it is. Would I want to have a Zelda with PS5/XSX graphics? Of course, but I also want to have a Zelda game no matter what.
To me, PS has the most games I like, but the moment Xbox starts releasing games I want, I'll definitely get it.
To me, PS has the most games I like, but the moment Xbox starts releasing games I want, I'll definitely get it.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
So it doesn't count because the PS5 doesn't do it as well? Seems pretty lame to me. PS5 supports BC so all the features contribute to the over all superior package. Why blame Xbox for being better able to tap its power to improve titles like Warzone and Skyrim? Sony is the market leader they should lead in all aspects. Pretty sure you wouldn't discount those features if PS5 did them better.
freefornow
Gold Member
Well, Phil taking his SX home in 2019 also gets used "all the time" in these pointless arguments. There is nothing to say that what he had in his home at the time was the full feature complete of the Series X regardless of what was being played on it at the time.
Did MS, the XBO, One S having better BC say anything about that overall performance of the base consoles?
Exactly.
The PS4 didn't have any BC.
That some of y'all are still hung up on BC is interesting. And explains alot.
So again, in that context, what does that have to do with the topic?
Going back to your post and the one that this is about, the PS5 can play PS4 games better.
Asking why there is no 60 fps mod for Skyrim for PS5 but is for XSX is clearly irrelevant to this thread.
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DarkMage619
$MSFT
The Xbox leverages it's power to make games run better. The fact that Sony doesn't do it as well this generation or not at all last generation isn't MS's fault. BC in this case is one example of the power of the current Xbox family of consoles. Again if Sony was doing it better I'm certain you'd hold it up as an example of its strength. Power can come in many factors. Running a game at 60 fps on one platform and 30 on another seems like a prime example.
Ok, so let me see if I understand this:
BC counts for overall performance, but how next gen versions of last gen games run right now don't?
Also, how do you know what I would say about BC if Sony was doing it better?
That sounds like projection to me.
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