FrankWza
Member
Wow. Let’s see a series x for $299 and a series s for $99. Then I’ll be impressed
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Krisprolls
Banned
Bethesda cost 7.5 billion, magnitudes more than Gears. As Xbox CFO (who knows more than Riky the fanboy) already hinted, bigger Bethesda games will be on Playstation, simply because it would lose too much money to cut 50% or more of the sales. The day Xbox has tripled its market share (won't happen), yes they could be exclusive.
And you're apparently even more clueless in business and financials than you are in gaming, if it's even possible, because shareholders (which include big stake holders like funds, not only people like you and me, well probably more me) are indeed extremely powerful and can definitely influence the big corp strategy, it happens every day actually. Shareholders (big and small) are the real owners of the corporation, not Phil Spencer.
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Krisprolls
Banned
They're very far from having 40 million subscribers though, and people subscribed mostly because it was free, not $15. They achieved nothing until now except mostly distributing subscriptions for free. I unsubscribed on PC Gamepass when it came to around €10 because there were already much better options on PC. I don't see people on PC fighting to subscribe. And Xbox accounts for a very low user base right now if sales are anything to go by (even in the UK, Hitman 3 sales are 75 % playstation). Where will the 40 million subs will come from and who could pay $15 for that ?
I highly doubt they can reach the scale you think they can and certainly not at that price, for reasons I already explained multiple times, the biggest one being people are time constrained and not money constrained in this hobby, so they choose to just buy the games they want to play, not "some game". Subscription models make a lot more sense in music or movies.
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iamvin22
Industry Verified
you are delusional if you think they think this way. if they did they would report all those numbers for every NPD report.
Riky
$MSFT
No you are clueless.
A cost in business terms is something you can't recoup, it's a profit and loss item.
Buying an asset is not a cost, it's a purchase and moves assets from one part of a balance sheet to another.
Fanboys have been saying this about shareholders since the original Xbox, it lost money so there wouldn't be another one, then the 360 appeared.
Then the Rrod happened and that cost billions in warranty claims and people said shareholders wouldn't accept that and the Xbox division would be cut.
Then the Xbox One appeared. Then we were told that only sold 50 million so shareholders wouldn't accept that and that's the end of Xbox.
Now we have two new Xbox's a rapidly growing and profitable division which just made a 7.5 billion purchase and is looking for more developers. Yet people still come out with this shareholder crap.
Most shareholders are Pension Funds etc and they are not interested in the day to day running of a business like you think they are.
onesvenus
Member
We'll have to agree to disagree.
I'm focusing on why you use temporal reconstruction and why you use VRS. In both cases you do it to increase performance by doing less work than what you would need to do otherwise. That's the only comparison I'm doing.
Riky
$MSFT
NPD is totally irrelevant when millions of your users are playing on a subscription service and not actually purchasing your games.
FrankWza
Member
It’s indicative of future earnings when you’re trying to convert those numbers to subscribers.
iamvin22
Industry Verified
gamepass is not sustainable right now. ms said this themselves. they messed up when they started giving away the sub for $1. even at their current pricing it still will not be sustainable.
Riky
$MSFT
Well they probably intend to add subscribers, probably by purchasing developers like Bethesda.
I don’t listen to those PR wordings. MS isn’t some nice for gamers company their fanboys make them out to be.
2 biggest IP’s in the whole of Bethesda are Elder Scrolls and Fallout. MS would love to have those exclusive to Xbox consoles. But even the smaller less selling games I don’t believe will be on PlayStation either. Don’t listen to those PR executives, especially good guy Phil. They say whatever sounds good at the moment.
I understand the financial point as games like Fallout 4 sold 10 million copies on PS4 alone. They will definitely be losing sales from PS5. For example no way am I buying a SX just for Starfield. I don’t even have a PS5 yet and that’s where $500+ of my money is going to this year. I would buy it though if there’s a PS5 version. You can bet there’s many other people in the same position. So that’s a lost sale for Bethesda.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I am not confident they can reach that scale.
IntentionalPun said:
Particularly because they think they are going to do it via streaming.
But that's how they plan to do it; and it's the only thing they are interested in.. they are not interested in the traditional console business representing "Xbox." So they almost have no choice but to make Bethesda exclusive.
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devilNprada
Member
Huh?
It's a purchase of an asset which has to be depreciated...
Depreciation is a what?
Edit: goodwill is amortized but you get the Idea
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Lunatic_Gamer
Gold Member
kyliethicc
Member
jesus fucking christ DF no one cares about Todd's rim
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
TBH, I would rather see some more detailed comparisons between PS5 or Xbox vs PC versions. They have only done three so far. CoD, AC and Hitman. I want to see Fenyx Rising, Borderlands 3, etc. Hell go back and see if Hitman drops frames on PC in that level xsx was dropping frames. there is so much more to cover.
I really dont think anyone cares about fucking skyrim.
Imtjnotu
Member
devilNprada
Member
Maybe the people that missed it on the 360, Xbox One, Switch, PS3, PS4, VR, and PC might..
Agent_Nobody
Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
So that DF Skyrim comparison shows the XSX really struggling badly with transparency effects when there are a lot of trees in an area and atmospheric effects. The PS5 also shows a weakness here with framedrops below 60, but the xsx drops way more often and hits the low 50s.
Even Richard is starting to come around and thinks this is a PS5 advantage due to its 36 CU and high clock design. Though, as always, he thinks it will only affect last gen games as if next gen games wont be using transparency effects with higher tree counts and more atmospherics.
I guess we will see.
Even Richard is starting to come around and thinks this is a PS5 advantage due to its 36 CU and high clock design. Though, as always, he thinks it will only affect last gen games as if next gen games wont be using transparency effects with higher tree counts and more atmospherics.
I guess we will see.
devilNprada
Member
Would be interesting to see how many fortnite crew members @$11.99 were added during the same period...
Agent_Nobody
Member
The point he was making with the CUs was that the PS4 Pro’s 36 compute units match up to the PS5’s 36 CU set-up, where the xbox is going from 40 to 52 (One X to SX).
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
right, but PC GPUs increase CU counts all the time and are able to increase performance despite the parallelization of GPU instructions. It really shouldnt matter because they are basically both running in GCN 2.0 modes.
Agent_Nobody
Member
It’s legacy software for console though. I think he’s just speculating that it might be a scenario like PS4 pro playing PS4 games in non-boost mode where it just straight up deactivated the extra CUs. It’s speculation either way but it seems like a plausible theory.
Stooky
Member
They have to pay for infrastructure and other devs on game pass. The $15 a month gets stretched mighty thin. They need netflix disney+ sub numbers and then some to make Bethesda games be exclusive.. I would prepare for the wave of microtransaction ad riddled games coming your way.
Great Hair
Banned
How many are actually staying subbed for a whole year ($200)? and how many sub&cancel after a month or two? What if the retention rate is well below 50%?
MistBreeze
Member
about microsoft and bethesda
when microsoft showed how they aggressively about game pass two days ago
I came to conclusion that microsoft is moving away from platforms and hardware first to services first
I was watching a video on youtube about why microsoft refuse to develop windows 11 and it says platforms are costly and services strategy Microsoft is hedding to make more sense and profit to them for god sakes they sell office suite now as a subscription model
I think microsoft does not care about xbox as a platform anymore hence no sale numbers for years now
and trying to killing live service which is xbox and trying to kill digital sales and disc sales by this move and game ownership in xbox
yeah they are destroying xbox but not necessarily their gaming deviesion
I think for triple AAA games they must sell them outside of game pass whatever way possible to recoup some dev cost and maybe make profit
while keeping and growing gamepass in the same time
u see selling games on playstation at full price 70 dollar for standard edition is a huge deal with an install base of more than 100 m customers is hard to pass up
yes exclusivity for first party games make sense if microsoft care about selling as much consoles as possible or care about games copies sold
but now caring about game pass ?? yeah it does not make much sense to keep caring about exclusives
and Riky said why Microsoft does not sell gears and forza etc in ps now ??
I say for now yes but maybe when game pass grow enough for them and kill xbox for good like they are doing now maybe u will see gears on ps5
to be precise
Sony only care about exclusives cause they want to sell as many consoles as possible and cause they have a huge install base the thing that carry their eco system enough to sell their games exclusively on it
I bet if ps5 unit sales failed to match their expectations they will release all their first party games on xbox and pc too
it is all about money after all u can not sell exclusive games on a system with small install base
this is what I think at least
when microsoft showed how they aggressively about game pass two days ago
I came to conclusion that microsoft is moving away from platforms and hardware first to services first
I was watching a video on youtube about why microsoft refuse to develop windows 11 and it says platforms are costly and services strategy Microsoft is hedding to make more sense and profit to them for god sakes they sell office suite now as a subscription model
I think microsoft does not care about xbox as a platform anymore hence no sale numbers for years now
and trying to killing live service which is xbox and trying to kill digital sales and disc sales by this move and game ownership in xbox
yeah they are destroying xbox but not necessarily their gaming deviesion
I think for triple AAA games they must sell them outside of game pass whatever way possible to recoup some dev cost and maybe make profit
while keeping and growing gamepass in the same time
u see selling games on playstation at full price 70 dollar for standard edition is a huge deal with an install base of more than 100 m customers is hard to pass up
yes exclusivity for first party games make sense if microsoft care about selling as much consoles as possible or care about games copies sold
but now caring about game pass ?? yeah it does not make much sense to keep caring about exclusives
and Riky said why Microsoft does not sell gears and forza etc in ps now ??
I say for now yes but maybe when game pass grow enough for them and kill xbox for good like they are doing now maybe u will see gears on ps5
to be precise
Sony only care about exclusives cause they want to sell as many consoles as possible and cause they have a huge install base the thing that carry their eco system enough to sell their games exclusively on it
I bet if ps5 unit sales failed to match their expectations they will release all their first party games on xbox and pc too
it is all about money after all u can not sell exclusive games on a system with small install base
this is what I think at least
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squarealex
Member
How many are actually staying subbed for a whole year ($200)? and how many sub&cancel after a month or two? What if the retention rate is well below 50%?
GamePass is the new "Gold"
Pls be amazing.
MistBreeze
Member
How many are actually staying subbed for a whole year ($200)? and how many sub&cancel after a month or two? What if the retention rate is well below 50%?
yes this is a common problem on all subscription models platforms
most casual people will sub for a month play games they want then bail out
only die hards will keep their subs for years
I think microsoft will combat that by making their games episodic
lets say for example instead of releasing perfect dark as a full game they will release it as episodes for 6 months maybe like episode every month
so if u want to play it u must keep ur sub for at least 6 months
but if they tried something like that in gaming will gamers respond well to this??
I do not know
either that or if u putting games full in game pass I think they must sell it full price outside the service to get revenue
ethomaz
Banned
What “most devices ever sold in a launch month” even means? Help me understand the spin machine.
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devilNprada
Member
Means they sold more units in 20 days than they sold
Xbox 15 days
Xbox 360 8 days
Xbox one 8 Days....
Edit: Windows Phones in total
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Of course; there are lots of costs and the revenue is shared (as I mentioned in my post.)
I was just giving a rough picture of the sheer amount of money a sub service can generate. And that's just the sub service itself; non-subscribers will continue to exist, and subscribers still buy games + DLC. Lots of secondary avenues that are boosted by the Bethesda purchase.
And Netflix has over 200 million subscribers worldwide.. do you understand the sheer magnitude of the money that would be generated if Gamepass could do that, even if the average person spent $10? That's $2 billion every single month.. and MS likely gets the brunt of it. That would be more money in a year than all of PlayStation has ever made in a year.
And I think people overestimate how much they have to give 3rd parties outside of key deals... most of the 3rd party games are long past their launch and are going on a service like GamePass and I think MS is getting killer deals because the goal is just as much to increase the popularity of the game / generate hype for a sequel / generate DLC sales / etc. And much like Netflix of 2021, once MS has a flood of their own content on GamePass, they will rely on 3rd parties less and less.
And I really don't think you are getting the big picture here; MS is only in this business now to scale GamePass / XBL... they aren't spending $7.5 billion to make some money selling Bethesda games on PlayStation. They want that purchase to add millions of GamePass subs, it's going to do far less of that if the games are available on their biggest competitor.
Bethesda also already generates tons of revenue on PC, has their back catalog to generate revenue, etc. The purchase will start bringing in revenue right away without MS doing anything.
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MistBreeze
Member
microsft dodging mentioning sales numbers as always
this is telling and clearly series x not selling enough
they do not care about xbox anymore
it is just game pass now for microsoft gaming
I expect to see gamepass on every console including ps5 and switch in the future
smart TVS and mobile phones for xcloud
ErRor88
Member
...Demand is high and they can't keep up, as they sold through all their initial stock.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Probably not accounting for the extra 12 days they had in their "launch month" compared to Xbox One.
But they are largely shipping / production constrained in their largest markets anyways.
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Physiognomonics
Member
That's awkward from them considering they constantly repeated since launch that XSX was fully using its 12tf (so 52CUs) of power for BC games.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
There's 52 CUs available, it's incredibly unlikely a last-gen game would be designed in a way where it would make use of them though.
That's really the problem potentially facing XSX in general though. If games have 36 or under CU utilization, they should perform quite a bit better on PS5.
kyliethicc
Member
This was probably a reason why the PS5 is same 36 CU GPU as PS4 Pro.
Sony 1st party dev engines will have the same amount of CPU cores and GPU shaders to use coming across generations. Probably makes the move to PS5 easier and helps their code be optimized faster.
Plus saved cost on die size etc.
Physiognomonics
Member
It's the problem XSX is facing in most games PS5 has the advantage. It's what Cerny (and many of us) have being talking about since before launch. PS5 is more efficient because it has less CUs by shader array. It will always be the case. Some of those games are next-gen ready like COD (with RT) or NBA (next-gen assets), and they are still performing better on PS5 no differently than cross-gen or BC games.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
We still don't know what will happen long term.
Using cross-gen games can be misleading; we'll just have to see.
But as it stands, PS5 is winning overall pretty handily, and it may be down to the narrower/faster design.
ethomaz
Banned
That is well not a good spin to be fair... I mean more days on market should give more units sold, no?
Great Hair
Banned
To achieve those numbers, they need 200 million subs ... ; Right now they have been selling less subs on a daily basis since the 15 million milestone. 30% for licensing, platform fee is a given, but the bigger chunk goes towards the publisher, distribution, servers, hardware, personnel and so on (3rd parties, less for 1st parties).
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Ancient Gamer
Member
My biggest concern with Gamepass is what level of subscription retention will be maintained after the stacked $1 subs start ending. I have many friends that stacked a maximum of 3 years and many of them will not re-up their subs when it expires. Personally I buy Gamepass one month at a time with a pre-paid card when there are games I want to play.
Not sure if this comment is on or off topic... let me know.
This comment is in regards to Microsofts financial report.
Not sure if this comment is on or off topic... let me know.
This comment is in regards to Microsofts financial report.
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
This is exactly MS's thinking.
IMHO, however, I think it's a pipedream. They won't get every major gaming publisher to put all their games up on GamePass. They also won't be able to buy every major gaming publisher.
Given how Xbox users on PC are miniscule, Xbox streaming on mobile is even more of an unproven market, together with the fact that MS's console hardware has been growing less and less popular even in core markets for them, I'm not seeing how reaching anything close to even 100m subscribers is reasonable... much less 200m.
MS would really need to break into some entirely untapped market like China to reach those kinds of numbers. And historically, MS have had the absolute worst track record for gaming companies making attempts to break into international, especially non-English speaking, markets.
It's easy to talk about hypothetical growth of MS's subscription service. But practically, I don't think there exists a gaming company other than perhaps Nintendo who has the global appeal and IP reach to drive a potential gaming subscription service to the hundreds of millions of active subscribers. And even then, the technical challenges of having to rely on streaming for delivery to mobile devices in countries with heavy BW caps, kinda renders it all a non-starter.
People lean too much into the Netflix comparison when discussing GamePass, all the while entirely ignoring the fact that the two mediums (i.e. game versus TV/film) are inherently different and thus the barriers to ensuring a reasonable, enjoyable and economical end user experience are almost completely different in the two cases.
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FrankWza
Member
Xbox Game Pass now has over 18 million subscribers
Xbox Game Pass now has over 18 million subscribers | Windows Central Xbox Game Pass has now hit 18 million subscribers, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella has stated, speaking on its FY21 Q2 earnings call.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Xbox Game Pass now has over 18 million subscribers
Xbox Game Pass now has over 18 million subscribers | Windows Central Xbox Game Pass has now hit 18 million subscribers, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella has stated, speaking on its FY21 Q2 earnings call.www.neogaf.com
Well... when they start reaching multiple tens of millions of subscribers and shareholders still aren't seeing the commensurate levels of expected revenue 2yrs in, Xbox management will have some important questions to answer to their shareholders.
FrankWza
Member
I was just pointing him to the conversation. I agree with both of you
kyliethicc
Member
Exactly. For example, there are no free to play TV shows or movies. Many of the biggest games in the world are free. Huge difference.
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