FrankWza
Member
Even just this month with Control. Is the UE the version that’s available on gamepass?
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FrankWza
Member
I was speaking more to the people that bought a series x. But, Microsoft did change their slogan from most powerful console to most powerful Xbox REAL quick.
Personally instead of cyber warring for any the devices, I thank Microsoft for having a product out there that is forcing Sony to sell the PS5 at a loss and allowing me to afford both, especially because I only really have to buy games for one of them. Had the market only been shared between Sony and Nintendo, I'm willing to bet that the PS5 would cost at least 600$. As for which console spends one second longer at 60 fps or 3 pixels higher over the course of an entire game, well let's just say I will skip that battle.
MasterCornholio
Member
I don't know not everything comes to gamepass so I would still have to buy a lot of my games. Just because I have gamepass doesn't mean I'll just accept whatever the service gives me and not buy anything on the side.
Just trying to say is that gamepass isn't a solution to everything. Some things you have to buy separate.
Alpha Blending is heavier on memory access, it has to read pixels in from video memory then apply blending with the overlay image then write pixels back to memory. XSX has shown frame drops on all games where alpha blending is used, COD Cold War XSX is totally missing the alpha blended gun flashes most likely cos of the performance hit. Whereas on PS5 these alpha blending effects has no perceivable performance hit. This only further highlights XSX has severe bottlenecks with it's memory bandwidth, maybe that gimped memory architecture is responsible or some other hardware limitation when it comes to reading from that 10GB GPU memoryDon't forget also, on paper, the RT and memory bandwidth advantages, for the XsX. That's not totally negligible.... on paper.
The problem is that most of the game runs at locked 30 or 60 fps, and like hitman 3 or control, we don't really know how these consoles can really go over these caps.
For control, it is possible that most of the time the XsX has higher framerate than PS5, but for some reasons, can drop clearly higher than PS5, more often below the caps. I remember some games that was running with higher fps average with one GPU/system than another but with clearly worst 1% or 5% low fps.
That give a system with better overall level of performances with the game but a worst gaming experiences when these drops appeared too much.
Another thing that clearly surprises me with XsX are those drops that appeared with some text, alpha effects etc... That's the case with Hitman 3, Control, Destiny 2, ACV for example. I was watching the video about The division 2 and for example, we have a drop with such effect when level up:
That's really curious.
Agreed but there's only so many games that you can play. Between the PS5 exclusives and what's on GP, I would be lying if I was saying that there's something I miss and would have the time to play.
But point taken.
MasterCornholio
Member
I can't play everything on gamepass but I can certainly manage to play some games that I buy. Most of the games that I want to play you can't get on gamepass anyways. It's why I'm not subscribed to it even though I have a One X.
It's a real steal and it doesn't prevent you from also buying the games that you want. you even get them cheaper.
DJ12
Member
More passable this time his usual videos are a very hard watch due to his favourite word.
Some good spots though, a couple probably explained by different angles and boosted brightness on the PS5 video due to the crushed blacks bug.
Some clear evidence that all is not equal, whether or not any of it would make a performance difference, we'll never know.
Setsuna Mudou
Member
MasterCornholio
Member
But I never used it because most of the games that I play don't even release on it. When I had gamepass it ended up being a waste for me.
Okay got ya. I was only commenting for a closed system. As you explained there's a lot more going on with the Xbox eco system
FatKingBallman
Banned
Interesting
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Neo Blaster
Member
If you don't mind just playing old games, with the exception of MS FP, some indies and games already on PC, then go for it.
I like his theory about using photo mode on PS5 is probably causing smart shift to throttle it’s CPU usage down since it doesn’t need it in instances like that.
Just speculation though and not really important anyway since It’s just photo mode. Still can’t believe DF actually did a video on that.
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Neo Blaster
Member
DF saying XSX has the edge because only the GPU is on heavy load on photo mode is like saying a guy would be a woman if he had a vagina.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
After the Halo lighting damage control, and not analyzing the brand/platform’s largest and most important IP gameplay reveal “due to it running on a PC” and that “you would not get an accurate picture ... this far out” ... all while they built custom PC boxes to try and match the console specs (before the consoles were out mind you) and analyze the shit out of those “somehow accurate PC pictures” even though MS’s toolset is built to run across their various machines with a single build...
Nothing surprises me anymore.
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Lysandros
Member
He did a very impressive job there. The differences are more than i thought. We should post the screenshots.
Rudius
Member
If you like the style and atmosphere of Control, watch the movie called Brazil, from 1985. It has nothing to do with the country, by the way.
DJ12
Member
Unbelievable, yet they aren't shills xbox chums?
If you knew nothing else, the vetted info would be enough, nevermind all the other evidence
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Very nice, thank you very much : )
Rudius
Member
Demon's Souls loads up to 3 gigs in a second during gameplay (or something like that, mentioned by the developers to Digital Foundry). PS4 can at most load 50 megabytes from that old hard drive. No way it could run this without significant reworking.Demon Souls is also using realtime GI and it is by the best looking game out so far. it's also 60 fps at 1440p. you dont need ray tracing.
Imagine what they can do at 1440p 30 fps like the UE demo. They would have 2x the GPU power available for fancier graphical effects.
thinking about this a bit more. I wonder if they can get this downported to the ps4. the pro should be able to handle a 1200p 30 fps version with some small downgrades here and there. the base ps4 can probably run this game at 900p 30 fps. i think the realtime GI goes out for the base versions, but they can use current gen techniques for it.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It’s even less than 50 on the PS4 since they have to take into account that the drive is swappable and people can put in some really shitty slow ones. That’s why Insomniac had to cap their engine much lower (I think high teens or low 20s in their GDC talk) than launch spec due to that.
Insomniac mentioned the mechanical drive is starving what the GPU was capable of. They couldn’t feed or stream in assets fast enough to satiate the computation.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Not to disagree with any of your points but i don't think any of this stuff matters. The gen was decided before it even began. I don't think anyone bought the xsx over the ps5 because of Microsoft's claims. The Xbox fans bought the Xbox and the ps fans bought the ps5.
Ps5 performing better in some games or xsx performing better on other games doesn't really matter. Look at the hitman sales. Xbox was the best selling console in uk in January and yet hitman sold almost all the copies on the ps5.
This gen will play out like last gen. Xbox will compete well in the us and uk. Star citizen and elder scrolls might change things mid to late gen but by then it would be too late and even then they will probably just buy it on pc or wait for the ps5 port. But other than star citizen Microsoft simply cannot stop the juggernaut that is the ps5. Especially not by winning some digital foundry face offs.
Digital foundry is for forum dwellers and Twitter nerds. Most people couldn't care less about hitman running at 1800p.
Rudius
Member
Now I feel sorry for that hungry GPU
FrankWza
Member
This was the original post that poster was replying to. Had nothing to do with sales. Just the overall perception and why DF went to the lengths to manufacture that photo mode video.
Strange that you’re stating that as if any other service was offering something comparable. And you’re ignoring that I can play 10 hrs worth of new EA games before their release and that all those games are playable on the go. Not sure we are arguing this service’s value if it’s any other manufacturer offering it.
FrankWza
Member
His delivery is a little rough. But he did call it like it is.
Gregg my man...you’re going down the path you swore you’d never go down
Neo Blaster
Member
And yet you have to pay for the majority of new games...GP is an undisputed great value, but it cannot replace ye olde retail/digital stores if you want new experiences or your own choices.
Sinthor
Gold Member
Meh....I don't think DF did that Photo mode thing because of bias, at least not necessarily. If they were doing an analysis and someone Tweeted about this thing they'd found, why WOULDN'T DF check it out? Then, if it had interesting results as it does...mention it in their video. They didn't even speculate why it is, other than thinking that this MAY be a valid comparison of just raw GPU processing ability. So I don't think it was a huge deal.
I'm STILL curious if that is even the case. From what I had read, in BC mode, games on PS5 supposedly didn't have access to RDNA2 features, etc. Not sure if that's the case on XSX or not, though I suspect it is. Point being....in BC mode, is the GPU even working to 100% of it's capability? Or is it locked in BC mode without most of the RDNA2 enhancements? That could make a difference as well. Though, really, if that's the case, I'd expect the PS5 to perform better in BC mode due to its higher clock speeds. Interesting stuff!
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Pretty sure control got a ps5 sku. I highly doubt it's running on bc mode because the rt features would likely not be available with it running in gcn mode.
MistBreeze
Member
people these days does not know what is a real difference
differences these days can not be detected unless you zoom 800 % or 2-3 fps for seconds not detectable unless vg tech or df detect them for fans to brag by these undetectable - in real life - differences
I remember xbox original being like 3 times more powerful than ps2 splinter cell comparison was like night and day
re4 ps2 and gamecube versions looks like a generation apart ... gamecube maybe roughly 2 times more powerful than ps2
these are real differences for you
Maybe Riky is young and did not witness these past generations
but despite ps2 being one of the most gimped systems specs wise it is the most successful console of all time
why u ask??
it has the most diverse catalogue of games most are exclusives
and it has by far the most critically acclaimed games of that generations
differences these days can not be detected unless you zoom 800 % or 2-3 fps for seconds not detectable unless vg tech or df detect them for fans to brag by these undetectable - in real life - differences
I remember xbox original being like 3 times more powerful than ps2 splinter cell comparison was like night and day
re4 ps2 and gamecube versions looks like a generation apart ... gamecube maybe roughly 2 times more powerful than ps2
these are real differences for you
Maybe Riky is young and did not witness these past generations
but despite ps2 being one of the most gimped systems specs wise it is the most successful console of all time
why u ask??
it has the most diverse catalogue of games most are exclusives
and it has by far the most critically acclaimed games of that generations
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Dude the picture posted is deceiving. You don't see in middle of the screen the same object reflected on the ground because there is an overlay write above it.
Yes, that what I tried to say but when I born my mom didn't name me Michael.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Demon Souls is also using realtime GI and it is by the best looking game out so far. it's also 60 fps at 1440p. you dont need ray tracing.
Imagine what they can do at 1440p 30 fps like the UE demo. They would have 2x the GPU power available for fancier graphical effects.
thinking about this a bit more. I wonder if they can get this downported to the ps4. the pro should be able to handle a 1200p 30 fps version with some small downgrades here and there. the base ps4 can probably run this game at 900p 30 fps. i think the realtime GI goes out for the base versions, but they can use current gen techniques for it.
But is it confirmed that DS is using GI? It already looks impressive, if anything it would need RT reflections and it's near perfect (assuming there are enough reflective surfaces).
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Final result:
Graphics: PS5
RT: PS5
Gameplay FPS: PS5
Photo: PS5 (because it has the better image quality)
Photo FPS: XSX, you can have that.
Please tell me this is some sort of parody channel.......it has to be surely
Its bit like you. A parody. Just more popular and on youtube.
farmerboy
Member
Demon Souls is also using realtime GI and it is by the best looking game out so far. it's also 60 fps at 1440p. you dont need ray tracing.
Imagine what they can do at 1440p 30 fps like the UE demo. They would have 2x the GPU power available for fancier graphical effects.
thinking about this a bit more. I wonder if they can get this downported to the ps4. the pro should be able to handle a 1200p 30 fps version with some small downgrades here and there. the base ps4 can probably run this game at 900p 30 fps. i think the realtime GI goes out for the base versions, but they can use current gen techniques for it.
Basically one of the only games I've sworn to master just so I get to see all of it. When I actually get a ps5, that is.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Demon's Souls is a game that takes place in linear, tight corridors or very small areas in general and has static lighting due to either you being inside or being outside during a fixed time of day/weather. Now compare this to open world games with dynamic time and weather and you'll maybe realize that RT might be needed (see Metro Exodus as an example of this).Demon Souls is also using realtime GI and it is by the best looking game out so far. it's also 60 fps at 1440p. you dont need ray tracing.
Imagine what they can do at 1440p 30 fps like the UE demo. They would have 2x the GPU power available for fancier graphical effects.
thinking about this a bit more. I wonder if they can get this downported to the ps4. the pro should be able to handle a 1200p 30 fps version with some small downgrades here and there. the base ps4 can probably run this game at 900p 30 fps. i think the realtime GI goes out for the base versions, but they can use current gen techniques for it.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yes. Bluepoint told digital foundry they are using a fully realtime global illumination lighting system. Just checked and its at the 6 minute mark in this video.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Not really. Demon souls has some fairly large levels especially in worlds 1, 3, 4 and 5. I think world 2 is the only one that's set indoors.
You are right that it doesn't have realtime time of day but you don't need RT for global illumination either as shown by the ue5 demo. Ue4 had realtime gi running on a gtx 680 which was a 2.8 tflops gpu. It's far less expensive than the ray tracing gi.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Thanks a lot for that video and time. This is so wonderful, DS looks insane in performance mode and sharper that anything I've seen so far besides Spiderman MM. I can see PS Studios going with the smarter methods to reach higher fidelity end results instead of brute forcing RT with minimal optimization.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
The UE5 demo ran at 1440p30 and it was an empty tech demo. A dynamic open world game with those visuals might maybe run on a PS6, but definitely not a PS5.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I don't even know what we are talking about anymore. But I don't care much for this level of cynicism and skepticism so i will leave it at that.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yep. Rt isn't the end all be all for realtime gi. Devs last gen were very smart about global illumination by baking in gi in static time of day lighting settings. Ac unity used this to great effect. Horizon did a great job switching between six or eight static time of day settings in real-time with pre baked global illumination. Unity had to run on a 1.3 tflops gpu, horizon on a 1.8 tflops gpu. 10 is plenty enough for a real-time gi game.
We just have to stick with 1440p 30 fps and not waste precious gpu resources chasing native 4k or 60 fps. We can always buy a ps5 pro to play early gen games at 60 fps. Gimme graphics or give me death.
Three Jackdaws
Banned
I'm giggling a little because of what I'm about to type and the shitshow it caused on this thread in the past week lol
As I've mentioned before, the UE5 demo was designed to showcase the massive amount of polygon rich assets and environments it could load in in realtime. The number of polygons which were being rendered per frame was really insane as well as the ones being culled (culling also has a hit on performance but the net gain is better). Yet the PS5 ran that demo gracefully at 1440P at 30 FPS. Months after the demo was released, Epic stated they could now run that same demo comfortably at 1440P 60 FPS. They could also drop the polygon count significantly to increase the performance even further and drastically reduce the file size and the visual fidelity would remain the same unless you zoom in by 400x.
Open world games by nature are not as geometrically dense per frame compared to a closed environment game or what we saw in the UE5 demo so it's not a good idea making that comparison. We don't even know how UE5 renders things like foliage or even things like reflections etc. We can look at an open world game like Days Gone running on UE4 and it looked stunning running on the PS4 hardware, now lets think about the capabilities of the next-gen hardware as well as the improvements made to UE5 and we can only imagine how good a next-gen open world game would look running on UE5. So I'm confident PS5 could handle a visually rich open world game which is on par with the UE5 and heck run it 1440P 60 FPS at a minimum.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
mitchman
Gold Member
Well, I can say that PS5s are selling for 10k NOK and up here, that's USD $1200 and up.
MistBreeze
Member
I want to talk about something
I see many people downplay the importance of ps5 ssd tech
but believe me when u play demons souls .. miles morales you will understand it is like 3 to 4 seconds loading at most but most loadings are neat instant
in destruction all stars it is so deletious it is smooth like butter
it is almost like playing from a cartridge back on the day
yes most what I said revolve around loading time only
but Im confident it will affect gameplay design and worlds in first party or fully exclusive games at least it will change more than load times
it is like a dream come true
I see many people downplay the importance of ps5 ssd tech
but believe me when u play demons souls .. miles morales you will understand it is like 3 to 4 seconds loading at most but most loadings are neat instant
in destruction all stars it is so deletious it is smooth like butter
it is almost like playing from a cartridge back on the day
yes most what I said revolve around loading time only
but Im confident it will affect gameplay design and worlds in first party or fully exclusive games at least it will change more than load times
it is like a dream come true
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