DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
So we may see a card for the ps5? It's about jebbing time.
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Seagate PCIe4 next-gen storage event on 23rd June
- Thread starter cormack12
- Start date
Bo_Hazem
Banned
No fetching the data from expected spots. You can have audio somewhere, and textures scattered in different chips. It's a hard task, really. But partition inside SSD will shorten the lifespan, yes.
Not card, full length NVMe m.2 SSD's only. If you're comparing it XSX that one uses only 2x PCIe lanes vs 4x lanes in PS5's internal SSD and NVMe m.2 SSD's.
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Negotiator101
Member
Phil Spencer has positioned Xbox this generation as a real competitor, they have 23 studios because of his vision. Now he has to deliver with all that talent and if he doesn't I'll be first to tear into him. This guy is giving a pass on a potential design fall because he has faith in Cerny!Errrr......no offense, but you've done your fair share of hero worship when it comes to Phil Spencer.
vpance
Member
Doesn't the DRAM in the SSD handle all that? Streaming pool sizes are usually very small. I suppose they could just reserve a bigger amount and distribute the usage around randomly.
I think they have it sorted though. Most likely just waiting for more drives to come out.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I really hope so, also they made SRAM, which is extremely better than DRAM, to directly feed GPU cache and the CPU/RAM in the I/O that'll work with the external one as well.
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kinjx11
Banned
I have this one already
www.sabrent.com
PS5 couldn't deal with it's speeds
Rocket 4 Plus SSD
PCIe 4.0 x4 interface, NVMe 1.3 compliant. APST/ASPM/L1.2 support. Supports SMART and TRIM functions. Works in an enclosure. Wide flash compatibility. Uses TLC with DRAM. Advanced endurance features for a long drive lifespan. Upgradeable firmware and software support. 4.0-capable motherboard and...
www.sabrent.com
PS5 couldn't deal with it's speeds
Bo_Hazem
Banned
You need to educate yourself more, starting with reading the posts in this very thread before making laughable hot takes.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Yeah I'm guessing full 2280 cards. Bring it on. I want an extra 1tb at least.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Doubt it'll be 1TB if it's proprietary though. It means more chips and more channels than 12 for each. I think 825GB will be very good as it'll be mostly ~825-810GB of available storage vs 667GB internally.
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Nah Proprietary are always too expensive. Besides next year you will have M.2 pcie 5.0 SSDs, that will make gen 4 price go down and maybe a QLC Gen 5 M.2 performance would still be fast enough for the PS5 while being cheaper with greater capacity.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Only if it works on your own system exclusively. Anything that'll work on the external storage will also work on PC, so you can still sell it in large volume in the PC market to keep prices low.
Sony needs to provide news about when to expect the update to unlock the port. Their track record with their TVs and promising updates is a little worrying. Then they need to make it clear which aftermarket ssds are certified for use for parity performance in game.
This seems more like a PC part focus given the partner listing. Without any word from Sony I don't see any sense in getting hyped over this.
This seems more like a PC part focus given the partner listing. Without any word from Sony I don't see any sense in getting hyped over this.
iHaunter
Member
Speed of PS5 is not just the SSD. It's the I/O. Insane people still don't understand the difference.will it be faster than PS5 superior SSD?
Dream-Knife
Banned
Why is it that 6 is coming out, and everything on PC is still 4? Is this even going to really mean anything?PCIE 6.0 is coming out this year.
PCI Express 6.0 ger ovanligt stora förändringar innan årets slut
Version 0.71 av specifikationen väntas inom kort och den slutgiltiga versionen ser ut att lanseras enligt plan innan årsskiftet.www.sweclockers.com
I'm curious if the PS5 can run an OS from the external drive. The internal drive being proprietary and soldered to the board means when that drive fails, your entire console becomes e-waste. If hackers can open the system up, then it can be preserved for the future.
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Monokrom
Member
Yup, and to implement VRR. Hopefully we get both this summer.
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
I don't know why, but I have a crazy feeling Sony is shopping around the idea of proprietary.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I feel the same since months now. It's just impossible to rely on current NVMe m.2 SSD's. If it works well on PC as well I can find it being trending on PC.
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
All these companies are just Mr Krabs. I'm less on the PC SSDs won't work and more on the proprietary will just make more money and keep consumers from getting confused.
GuinGuin
Banned
Dream-Knife
Banned
Proprietary makes no sense. Only Sonys own studios will take advantage of any proprietary features.
Not to mention the ~6700 in the PS5 isn't capable enough to take advantage of 12gb used per second that the IO is promising.
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
Right up there with thisMight be the most embarrassing thing I've ever read.
Have faith in Cerny and you too will gain the knowledge, wisdom and understanding to see the future.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Not sure if you even understand what you just said. Also it's 17GB/s on average up to 22GB/s after decompression, which means 17-22MB/ms which is literally DDR4 single channel speed range.
sendit
Member
Phil Spencer has positioned Xbox this generation as a real competitor, they have 23 studios because of his vision. Now he has to deliver with all that talent and if he doesn't I'll be first to tear into him. This guy is giving a pass on a potential design fall because he has faith in Cerny!
Agreed. Phil Spencer is the man. On top of buying 23 studios. We have not seen a single peep or squeak of a exclusive game since release (of Xbox Series).
Correction. I forgot they showed HellBlade 2 clouds a few days ago.
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Dream-Knife
Banned
I'm referring to that slide showing the 16gb of gddr6 being one rendered second, and the IO continuously feeding that. The PS5 doesn't have the graphical abilities to take advantage of that speed.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
You see? You still don't understand. It means you don't have to bring more than needed into the GPU/CPU so you'll have a higher headroom to push for higher IQ. You can do that with 64GB RAM as well if coded so, but devs won't aim for that unrealistic minority.
Kazekage1981
Member
I agree.
Why is this thread being shitted on and being transformed on how the PS5 SSD works? How is PS5 SSD and Seagate SSD related? What relationship does Sony have with Seagate?
Dream-Knife
Banned
Rendering frames is different from storing assets in VRAM.
kyliethicc
Member
The PS5 SSD flash controller is not the same as the PS5 SoC's DMA controller. 2 different aspects of the PS5's I/O.Well if that's the case then you wont be getting any SSD's that will be compatible with the PS5.
The only thing about the PS5 drive that is "special" is the controller but that is not onboard the SSD itself:
The PS5 has a custom flash controller (with 6 priority levels) and 512 MiB LPDDR4.
We know custom flash controllers matter because its happening in the PC space too. Samsung made their own custom flash controller for their PCIe Gen4 980 Pro M.2 SSD because existing controllers were not sufficient. To hit 7 GB/s raw read, Samsung had to make their own controller. Sony had to make their own flash controller as well to hit their goals for PS5.
Then inside the PS5 SoC, there's a dedicated compressor, a dedicated DMA controller, 2 I/O co-processors, SRAM, and coherency units. Cerny said thats all around 12 Zen2 cores worth of dedicated performance in that I/O unit. But that custom I/O unit is different from the custom flash controller. The flash controller connects the NAND to the SoC, and will also connect the M.2 SSD (we can add) to the SoC.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Futaleufu
Member
Sony fanboys thinking any news about a SSD speed bandwidth breakthrough is about them.
Kazekage1981
Member
The event doesn't even have Sony as a sponsor, it does have AMD so it could be somewhat related. Unless Seagate is making extra external or internal storage for PS5 which is certified and adheres to the consoles needs and its specifications, then why is this thread about how PS5 SSD internal storage works?
Topher
Gold Member
Phil Spencer has positioned Xbox this generation as a real competitor, they have 23 studios because of his vision. Now he has to deliver with all that talent and if he doesn't I'll be first to tear into him. This guy is giving a pass on a potential design fall because he has faith in Cerny!
Did you really just try to turn pure speculation on PS5 SSD tech into a "potential design flaw"?
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Did you really just try to turn pure speculation on PS5 SSD tech into a "potential design flaw"?
Could you read the gibberish that this has nothing to do with Sony, while every NVMe m.2 SSD is as much a PS5 subject as PC?
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Phil Spencer has positioned Xbox this generation as a real competitor, they have 23 studios because of his vision. Now he has to deliver with all that talent and if he doesn't I'll be first to tear into him. This guy is giving a pass on a potential design fall because he has faith in Cerny!
Did you really just try to turn pure speculation on PS5 SSD tech into a "potential design flaw"?
They couldnt help themselves....
Md Ray
Member
See this for context:
And then this:
Well, the dev who worked at Naughty Dog disagrees with you.
The Importance of SSD Rendering Explained by Former Naughty Dog Technical Director - MP1st
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Topher
Gold Member
Could you read the gibberish that this has nothing to do with Sony, while every NVMe m.2 SSD is as much a PS5 subject as PC?
That's a bit insane, isn't it? The simple fact of the matter is that every single new PCIe 4.0 NVMe m.2 SSD coming to market is a potential storage expansion option for PS5. So folks might as well get over it. As you say, this is just as much as PS5 topic as it is PC.
Dream-Knife
Banned
See this for context:
And then this:
Well, the dev who worked at Naughty Dog disagrees with you.
The Importance of SSD Rendering Explained by Former Naughty Dog Technical Director - MP1st
Awesome. Be sure to let us know when there's a game that uses it.
This convo has reminded me of this:
Introducing the IBM/Sony/Toshiba Cell Processor ? Part I: the SIMD processing units
IBM, Sony, and Toshiba took the wraps off of their new Cell processor today, …
arstechnica.com
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So, I built my first PC this year. Was nerve racking when I had to put the cpu cooler on. Massive heat sink, will try not to get a big ass one again.
I would advise ppl that are getting a new PC or doing major upgrades to get a motherboard with an M.2 slot. And make sure you get a cpu that doesnt handicap it. I almost made a mistake with the cpu. Thats one thing that made me settle on a Ryzen 3600, the PCIe4 support.
Basically, look out for PCIe 4 support when choosing the mobo and cpu.
I would advise ppl that are getting a new PC or doing major upgrades to get a motherboard with an M.2 slot. And make sure you get a cpu that doesnt handicap it. I almost made a mistake with the cpu. Thats one thing that made me settle on a Ryzen 3600, the PCIe4 support.
Basically, look out for PCIe 4 support when choosing the mobo and cpu.
Md Ray
Member
Sure, if you've been living under a rock...
And we've yet to see what Naughty Dog's been up to. As usual, they will be above and beyond other first-party studios when it comes to showcasing the capabilities of the hardware.
GHG
Member
The PS5 SSD flash controller is not the same as the PS5 SoC's DMA controller. 2 different aspects of the PS5's I/O.
The PS5 has a custom flash controller (with 6 priority levels) and 512 MiB LPDDR4.
We know custom flash controllers matter because its happening in the PC space too. Samsung made their own custom flash controller for their PCIe Gen4 980 Pro M.2 SSD because existing controllers were not sufficient. To hit 7 GB/s raw read, Samsung had to make their own controller. Sony had to make their own flash controller as well to hit their goals for PS5.
Then inside the PS5 SoC, there's a dedicated compressor, a dedicated DMA controller, 2 I/O co-processors, SRAM, and coherency units. Cerny said thats all around 12 Zen2 cores worth of dedicated performance in that I/O unit. But that custom I/O unit is different from the custom flash controller. The flash controller connects the NAND to the SoC, and will also connect the M.2 SSD (we can add) to the SoC.
Interesting, I stand corrected then.
Can that flash controller be used as the interface for the SSD slot or does the SSD that's in the slot need to have an equivalent spec controller onboard?
The thing that irks me about that is the fact that there are plenty of drives out there available right now at reasonable prices that would be compatible if Microsoft had just allowed for standard formats to be installed.
In this area they are ahead at the moment due to the fact that there is a solution for people who need more storage space that is capable of running games but they have simultaneously put themselves behind in the fact that there's only a single overpriced solution for those who want it. I get that they need to make up for selling the console hardware at a loss somewhere but history has proven time and time again that proprietary storage is one of the least efficient ways in doing so and only harms your customers in the long run.
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kyliethicc
Member
The M.2 SSD connects (via PCIe 4x4) to the PS5 SoC.
Cerny said the PS5's controller & I/O unit will take care of it all. But that's why they need M.2 SSDs that are faster than 5.5 GB/s read.
So like the Samsung 980 Pro M.2 SSD is 7 GB/s read. Should be plenty fast enough to work.
No that's incorrect.
Edit - maybe lol. Maybe I'm incorrect. Idk.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
You sure about the bold? That would mean 6 priority levels as well which is not what I understood from the Mark Cerny. I think it works only with the I/O perks so it need a similar flash controller on the external one.
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Md Ray
Member
I went with 8 cores Zen 2 CPU in 2019 when I upgraded from a quad-core 3rd gen i5. Had to go with Gen3 board at the time as the cheaper B550 chipset with Gen4 support wasn't a thing up until now, a bummer.
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Topher
Gold Member
Awesome. Be sure to let us know when there's a game that uses it.
This convo has reminded me of this:
Introducing the IBM/Sony/Toshiba Cell Processor ? Part I: the SIMD processing units
IBM, Sony, and Toshiba took the wraps off of their new Cell processor today, …
That's a strange comparison considering much of the gaming world is implementing SSD technology advancements, in some fashion, whether it is the various new drives like this Seagate SSD or Microsoft's DirectStorage API or Nvidia's RTX IO tech. So you think these advancements are simply going to be ignored by game developers? Why? As
Md Ray
pointed out, R&C is already on the way. Hard to imagine devs not taking advantage of these IO speeds.
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
I was going to ask if you are new here, till I looked at your user name, but I'll say it anyways. EVERY thread becomes about Sony, regardless of the nature of the thread, content, of discussion.
VAVA Mk2
Member
Well good thing is they can do a system update down the road if they want to allow externals that support speeds needed. My guess is an updated Series X (Series Y?) will either support M.2 or USB ports that support external drives with fast enough read/write.
I am surprised the console didn't ship with USB 4 to allow faster external read/write speeds so external drives could be used, but proprietary cards are a source of profit while taking a loss on consoles....
GHG
Member
That would require a hardware revision which would stuff early adopters and make their decision to originally go with proprietary look silly.
Now that they have gone that route its likely they will stay committed to it unfortunately.
kyliethicc
Member
Well all I remember is that Cerny said the PS5 itself takes over dealing with the various priority levels, etc.
He said the M.2 drive's controller isn't going to be doing much, instead the PS5 will do it. But that's why they need extra speed to account for that.
Cerny never said the M.2 SSD needs a particular controller or DRAM. Just around 7 GB/s read speed.