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[Panajev2001a]

So just like every other generation?

Yeah, but this way the other rabid fanboys can use this news to stir up fake drama and F.U.D. where doing new console exclusives as well as new exciting games for the previous generation like they have always done is painted as a negative somehow… ah yeah well good point, just like every other generation .

 

[dcmk7]

Well it does actually prove that by itself, it's just a handful of people who don't seem to understand what's actually in the hardware that typically bash it.

Your right, 6 months in it has proven it can play next gen games just fine at lower resolutions. Some with rt, some without, but 99% of the buyers don't care and are very happy with the machine. Yet it seems to be those who don't own one or never will that bash it the most.

Things are going just fine for the series s sales wise, and will continue ue to sell every single unit built by the end of 2021. They may not even need to lower the price as planned if things keep on like this with shortages.

You are measuring a "next gen" experience by what you want instead of the masses. Many buyers would see and experience the series s as a bona-fide next gen experience on thier 1080p TV, or even a smaller 4k tv since they can't see 4k. Just because you and I want or expect 4k at 60fps doesn't mean everyone does. The s is still a huge step up from an original xbox one, you can't deny that.

You keep saying compromised state, that's like saying driving a slow car vs driving a fast car is compromised, when both can be fun.
Or using a $400 tablet vs a $800 tablet, both can be fun. Or pc is even a better example, are you saying that anyone playing on less than a 2070 is in a "compromised state" (basically 75% of pc gamers? )

You're putting your brand tribalism in the way of the argument. A lot of statements in there can't possibly prove.

If you're going to remove all the challenging parts for the XSS out of the game, on lots of cross gen games, then it's really not living up to next gen tag.

When the X1X can do certain things better, it's not a good look either.

Can only imagine what they strip out in actual next gen games, to get it to run. It's all feels a bit misleading.

I'm sure if you strip out enough the XSS and X1X can run everything. Since even Nintendo Switch managed to run Witcher 3, after sacrificing enough.

But my question is why can't the machine run the exact same game at a lower resolution, did MS mess up? Why does some next gen game features run at sub 600p? If it's that low why even include it.

And why is MS approach better than an XSX digital SKU.. At least with that it's not a lottery of whats missing or not on every title. Stop the developers grumbling too. And it also feels future proof to consumers. Certainly would be sold out right now. Maybe that's what the masses wanted. A cheaper XSX.

You are measuring a "next gen" experience by what you want instead of the masses.

Well it's not selling here or in Europe. So guess the 'masses' here are voting with their wallets.

Even Jim Ryan, suggested that people want a future proof console. Since the purchase is going to last them years.

 

[SamFo]

The actual quote was..

"We believe in BOTH generations..."

 

[nightmare-slain]

lol i feel so stupid for selling my PS4. sony can't sell their consoles to people who want one and even if they could they won't support it fully.

i bought myself a second hand PS4 on Friday and i'll just keep that until we get a PS5 redesign and actual games that will take full use of the console.

 

[UnNamed]

PS4 to PS5 transition will take 3 years, more cross-gen games coming

Sony exec Hideaki Nishino says the PS4 to PS5 transition period should last 3 years, and that more cross-gen releases are coming.

www.tweaktown.com

「PlayStation 5はこうして生まれた」ハード・プラットフォーム開発トップに聞く【西田宗千佳のRandomTracking】

11月12日に発売されるPlayStation 5(PS5)。先日公開した実機レビューでも示したように、読み込み速度高速化をはじめとした機能により、「ゲーム機の進化は画質・音質が上がること」という思い込みを吹き飛ばすに十分なインパクトを与えてくれた。

av.watch.impress.co.jp

In a recent interview with AV Watch, Sony Interactive Entertainment Vice President Hideaki Nishino confirms the PS4-to-PS5 transition period should last around 3 years. During that time Sony will release a mix of next-gen exclusives and cross-gen releases

"The current assumption is that the transition from PS4 to PS5 will take about three years. In the meantime, how can I keep buying games on PS4? Can the purchased games be played on PS5? That is important. At a certain time, we ask developers to develop on the premise of "cross generation" of PS4 and PS5. Of course, we also need to improve the library to make it easier."

I don't know if this translation is the real meaning, but it has sense.

Big teams can release a nextgen game only if this was developed from 2019 where next gen specs were fully available with the initial devkits. This means a true next gen game in 2023.

Little and medium developers can't afford next gen development, so it has much sense if they will develop a game for PS4 compatible with PS5. 120M PS4 users + 8M PS5 is a bigger crowd than PS5 only.

Games will be fully developed with PS5 in mind only when PS4 will be retired.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

Lol. I miss all that talk about sony's next gen only advantage.

 

[ZywyPL]

The truth will be somewhere in the middle. 3 years is absurd - half the console life. Not happening.

Totally happening. Gentle reminder - previous gen seriously took off in 2016, the same year PS4 Slim and Pro were introduced, UC4 launched and then later games like HZD, S-M, GoW4 etc. started to roll out, until that point almost all games were either cross-gen, PS3 "remasters", or indie ports from PC/mobile, until 2016 the "PS4 has no games" meme was repeated to death, rightfully so. And that was with just ~85MLN PS3 userbase, no PS+ etc., so now with all the PS4 huge success it will be even harder for Sony and all the 3rd party publishers to move away from that cash cow. Add Covid and all the issues it causes with both the console production and games development, and 2023 is clearly the year when PS5/XSX will be able to fully take off, we're almost halfway through 2021 mind you wth barely any new games, so 2022 will be full of nothing but cross-gens, probably first half of 2023 as well.

 

[SenkiDala]

Seeing what HZD2 looks like, I wouldn't be so worried.

 

[Panajev2001a]

nothing but cross-gens

Why exaggerate things to the point of making things up? We have already seen several exclusives on one side (PS5) and Stalker 2 on the other side has already been confirmed not to support Xbox One or PS4 either.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

If that time frame is really true, by the time we see true PS5 exclusives on a regular basis, the PS6 will probably be around the corner.

 

[Skifi28]

"We believe in generations", the thread.

What does that actually mean though? Other than a broad PR statement.

 

[Panajev2001a]

What does that actually mean though? Other than a broad PR statement.

It means this:

"We have always said that we believe in generations. We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features."

"We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."

PS5 Die Shot has been revealed

I blame this bearded stoner Exactly. He literally says there that "RDNA2 includes hardware support for DIRECT X ray tracing" So... PS5 by definition can't be this so called "full RDNA2" because PlayStation would never ever use fucking DirectX. Wow the PS5 is not a PC. Shocker. Its dishonest...

www.neogaf.com

 

[Skifi28]

It means this:

PS5 Die Shot has been revealed

I blame this bearded stoner Exactly. He literally says there that "RDNA2 includes hardware support for DIRECT X ray tracing" So... PS5 by definition can't be this so called "full RDNA2" because PlayStation would never ever use fucking DirectX. Wow the PS5 is not a PC. Shocker. Its dishonest...

www.neogaf.com

Which means the statement will always hold true as the PS5 port of a PS4 game will always include features not available to the previous generation. Doesn't say anything about building something from the ground up for the PS5 alone. People really like to hold grudges for things they took out of context themselves.

 

[ZywyPL]

Destruction All-Stars, Astro’s Playroom, Returnal, R&C: Rift Apart. Nevermind Demon Souls, Deathloop, Solar Ash, Stray. If Sony isnt doing next gen right, who the fuck is?

At the moment nobody (except for R&C and Medium's worlds transitions, but then again R&C is just faster loading and TF2 pretty much did what Medium does years ago). And funny thing is that the attached screens are nearly identical (except DS obviously which it two gens apart), it's all basically PS4 games, just upscaled and at 60FPS. Not that there's anything wrong with it, but again, if someone plays on PC there's literally nothing new the PS5/XSX offer.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

At the moment nobody (except for R&C and Medium's worlds transitions, but then again R&C is just faster loading and TF2 pretty much did what Medium does years ago). And funny thing is that the attached screens are nearly identical (except DS obviously which it two gens apart), it's all basically PS4 games, just upscaled and at 60FPS. Not that there's anything wrong with it, but again, if someone plays on PC there's literally nothing new the PS5/XSX offer.

What software do you use to type?

 

[SkylineRKR]

Well PS4 was still going strong so they might've waited a year or perhaps 2. Distribution and production wouldn't be hurt by Covid, and semiconductor parts might've been available by then. Not to mention perhaps better tech that ensures better support for DLSS, RT, 120hz etc. I see little point in the release of PS5 and Series X despite having caved myself, this way. Most games I play are PS4 games anyway and it seems this trend will continue for a while.

Sure shorter load times are good but w/e

 

[Audiophile]

Primarily cross-gen first party til 2023 would be absolutely dire. PS5 has sold more units vs PS4 in the same timeframe despite all the issues, so that's not much of an excuse. Even if people want one and can't get one, it's better in my eyes that a superior game comes out that you have to wait for than one that is forever compromised. Something I'd still be saying even if I hadn't secured a PS5 recently.

Also, some of the paradigm shifts and the relative impressiveness of the hardware, requires exclusive development more than ever to show off the differences.

Third party can do what they want, but Sony's approach has always been to blow you away at launch. Absolutely nothing has done this this time around (and I was intentionally 6 months late to the party), I've been massively underwhelmed.

Great loading, some quality of life improvements and then some impressive haptics in Astrobot are about all that's been impressive to me. Even the 3D audio is massively under-developed at this point; and this is a feature I'm really hopeful for and know can be great.

Everything I've played looks and feels last gen with mere resolution/fps bumps and maybe RT bolted on. I'm not knocking the quality of these games (most of them at least), nor the hard work put into them, but the intrinsic limitations are clear..

 

[namekuseijin]

that terrible covid generation

 

[ZywyPL]

PS5 has sold more units vs PS4 in the same timeframe despite all the issues, so that's not much of an excuse.

115M vs 8 (before even counting scalpels) is not an excuse? That's literally 1400% larger userbase...

 

[Audiophile]

115M vs 8 (before even counting scalpels) is not an excuse? That's literally 1400% larger userbase...

"sold...in the same timeframe"

I'm not comparing total userbase, but Sony's practice at the same point in the console's lifecycle.

 

[Monokrom]

Things are going just fine for the series s sales wise, and will continue ue to sell every single unit built by the end of 2021. They may not even need to lower the price as planned if things keep on like this with shortages.

It doesn't sell that well in EU, still units on the shelves at retailers. Even had a reduced price here in Sweden. But Series X sells well and are out of stock though the PS5 has a higher demand.

 

[ZywyPL]

"sold...in the same timeframe"

But that doesn't change anything, other that the full transition to new generation might take a bit less time this time around.

 

[Audiophile]

But that doesn't change anything, other that the full transition to new generation might take a bit less time this time around.

I'm talking relative to previous generations and in regards to Sony's previous M.O. of offering exclusive next-gen games to showcase the platform.

My point is Sony transitioned to full next-gen development across most of their first-party studios with less units being sold in the beginning of PS3/PS4 eras. So the excuse that there are relatively less people to sell to or relatively less people get to experience the games doesn't hold weight.

You can of course argue that if the consoles are already selling well, Sony don't need to use their exclusive software to sell it and from a pure financial perspective might as well rake in the sales from the larger install base too. But I'd argue that is short-term thinking that undermines the brand, the integrity of the games and waters down the experience of the people who just spent top dollar on their new console only to get pretty much the same fundamental game experiences. They make most of their money from locking you into an ecosystem and they're doing great at that either way, so they're just making short term gains and the detriment to the brand and core consumer.

Across friends, family, former colleagues/acquaintances I must've talked to a good 15 or so people who have gotten a PS5 and not a single one of them has been impressed like they were the last two times around; as if they just have a PS4 Pro+ and it took me explaining the intricacies of the hardware -- and why the paradigm shift should be really impressive when devs can actually take advantage of it all -- to get them at least hopeful for the future of the platform.

 

[THE DUCK]

You're putting your brand tribalism in the way of the argument. A lot of statements in there can't possibly prove.

If you're going to remove all the challenging parts for the XSS out of the game, on lots of cross gen games, then it's really not living up to next gen tag.

When the X1X can do certain things better, it's not a good look either.

Can only imagine what they strip out in actual next gen games, to get it to run. It's all feels a bit misleading.

I'm sure if you strip out enough the XSS and X1X can run everything. Since even Nintendo Switch managed to run Witcher 3, after sacrificing enough.

But my question is why can't the machine run the exact same game at a lower resolution, did MS mess up? Why does some next gen game features run at sub 600p? If it's that low why even include it.

And why is MS approach better than an XSX digital SKU.. At least with that it's not a lottery of whats missing or not on every title. Stop the developers grumbling too. And it also feels future proof to consumers. Certainly would be sold out right now. Maybe that's what the masses wanted. A cheaper XSX.



Well it's not selling here or in Europe. So guess the 'masses' here are voting with their wallets.

Even Jim Ryan, suggested that people want a future proof console. Since the purchase is going to last them years.

Neither of us has a crystal ball, so I guess we will see. There is no tribalism at all at work here.
The comparison to X1X is irrelevant, it's a mid generation refresh that very people actually own. All the people that bought an X1X either are waiting for a series X or already bought one.
The primary market for Series S is people who owned PS3, Xbox 360, PS4 or Xbox one or nothing.
You keep talking about what they have to strip out, instead of focusing on what it does deliver, a very solid 1080P gaming experience with newer games, which is what most of it's buyers are after.

Maybe MS messed up, maybe not, there were cost considerations that we are not in the room for. You talk about 600p like it's the norm, why aren't you talking about the games that run at 1440P? Or the vast majority that run fine at 1080p?
A digital SKU for xbox series X is likely in the works, you can have your cake and eat it too. They could easily in the next year or two present a series S at $249, a digital X at $399, and a regular X at $499, and they can all happily co-exist..
I don't understand your massive insistence that the S cannot or should not exist simple because it's doesn't fit some magical form that matches what you think they should have built.
And developer grumbling? You mean the odd random article where they say the had challenges that they overcame? Sure, it's horrible........

It's selling just fine, just because you see an item on shelves doesn't mean there are no sales, that's ridiculous. Come talk to me at the end of the year when every single S is sold out.

 

[jroc74]

So just like every other generation?

I don't know if this translation is the real meaning, but it has sense.

Big teams can release a nextgen game only if this was developed from 2019 where next gen specs were fully available with the initial devkits. This means a true next gen game in 2023.

Little and medium developers can't afford next gen development, so it has much sense if they will develop a game for PS4 compatible with PS5. 120M PS4 users + 8M PS5 is a bigger crowd than PS5 only.

Games will be fully developed with PS5 in mind only when PS4 will be retired.

It means this:
"We have always said that we believe in generations. We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features."

"We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."

PS5 Die Shot has been revealed

I blame this bearded stoner Exactly. He literally says there that "RDNA2 includes hardware support for DIRECT X ray tracing" So... PS5 by definition can't be this so called "full RDNA2" because PlayStation would never ever use fucking DirectX. Wow the PS5 is not a PC. Shocker. Its dishonest...

www.neogaf.com

Which means the statement will always hold true as the PS5 port of a PS4 game will always include features not available to the previous generation. Doesn't say anything about building something from the ground up for the PS5 alone. People really like to hold grudges for things they took out of context themselves.

All this. No where did Jim or anyone from Sony say "all games will be PS5 only" Ppl using this as some kind of false PR are wild. Just a tiny bit of reading comprehension helps.

Since I can remember Sony has always had a mix of both cross gen and next gen only games at launch. Thats where the 'believe in generations' comes from. Because MS is doing things different or dont really have any next gen showcases doesnt change anything.

MS isnt doing the same thing because for some reason that couldnt or didnt. ...the XBO and 360 both had cross gen and next gen only games at launch.....

Lol. I miss all that talk about sony's next gen only advantage.

Seeing as they are the only ones doing, showing next gen only games vs MS, their next gen versions show a noticeable difference.....I see no lies detected.

PS5 versions of games are usually selling more than the PS4 one.

There are threads, on different forums, about 'do you think Horizon Forbidden West ....look....next gen.'

Sony devs seems to be doing something right.

 

[dcmk7]

The comparison to X1X is irrelevant

It should be relevant since DarkMage619 was saying how the XSS is more powerful than last gen. I think someone upset him with a X1X comparison and since then he is always quick to talk the XSS up, as if beating a last gen console is some sort of achievement.

You keep talking about what they have to strip out, instead of focusing on what it does deliver, a very solid 1080P gaming experience with newer games, which is what most of it's buyers are after.

I think highlighting effects and features stripped out of the XSS is the most damning part. It shouldn't be happening, it should only be resolution change. That would make more sense, and be the most fair to gamers. Have the same game just at different resolution.

But, the way it's worked out, what's the point of playing next gen game without any of the fancy features and effects, that's been stripped away? You're missing a part of the experience.
Which seems unfair.

instead of focusing on what it does deliver, a very solid 1080P gaming.

Without the removal of effects and features are you sure it would be a solid 1080p device?

I don't understand your massive insistence that the S cannot or should not exist simple because it's doesn't fit some magical form that matches what you think they should have built.

Based on what we are seeing so far it's not really pulling up any trees. Which makes me wonder if a mistake has been made.

It seems closer aligned to the last gen consoles than to the newer.

I don't hate it, but don't see why it gets so robustly defended around here. I have been called someone with an anti MS agenda by some here, (although have owned all their systems) because I dared to suggest that an XSX digital, makes more sense. For everyone.

It's selling just fine, just because you see an item on shelves doesn't mean there are no sales, that's ridiculous. Come talk to me at the end of the year when every single S is sold out.

What's ridiculous about it? It's the only 'next gen' console freely available here and in Europe.

GAME store are even offering a very, very generous exchange offer to help clear the excess stock. Being in that situation will only make their next order of a smaller quantity. Less demand leads to production decreasing and basically going the wrong way to economies of scale. It isn't good for it long term prospects.

Can't see it getting any better if the Switch Pro and BOTW2 releases in the holidays (if those rumours turn out to be true). That and XSS isnt marketed here. At all.

A XSX digital SKU on the other hand , would be just as sold out as the XSX.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I don't hate it, but don't see why it gets so robustly defended around here. I have been called someone with an anti MS agenda by some here, (although have owned all their systems) because I dared to suggest that an XSX digital, makes more sense. For everyone.

Digital only half storage size XSX should have been able to hit the $349-399 bracket and the Xbox Series would have a much higher baseline.

People without a 4K TV would get great AA too as the image would be downsampled for them. Win win…

 

[jigglet]

Totally happening. Gentle reminder - previous gen seriously took off in 2016, the same year PS4 Slim and Pro were introduced, UC4 launched and then later games like HZD, S-M, GoW4 etc. started to roll out, until that point almost all games were either cross-gen, PS3 "remasters", or indie ports from PC/mobile, until 2016 the "PS4 has no games" meme was repeated to death, rightfully so. And that was with just ~85MLN PS3 userbase, no PS+ etc., so now with all the PS4 huge success it will be even harder for Sony and all the 3rd party publishers to move away from that cash cow. Add Covid and all the issues it causes with both the console production and games development, and 2023 is clearly the year when PS5/XSX will be able to fully take off, we're almost halfway through 2021 mind you wth barely any new games, so 2022 will be full of nothing but cross-gens, probably first half of 2023 as well.

PS3 remasters and indie ports are utterly pointless to bring up. They have zero to do with the conversation about games being cross gen. When the PS4 actually took off has nothing to do with the conversation either.

What actual cross gen games were we seeing in 2016? Hell, what cross gen games were we even seeing in 2015? The last one I can even remember in 2015 was Black Ops 3.

 

[ZywyPL]

PS3 remasters and indie ports are utterly pointless to bring up. They have zero to do with the conversation about games being cross gen. When the PS4 actually took off has nothing to do with the conversation either.

What actual cross gen games were we seeing in 2016? Hell, what cross gen games were we even seeing in 2015? The last one I can even remember in 2015 was Black Ops 3.

The reason for everything above is the same, and has absolutely everything to do with the conversation, and Sony's plans for the upcoming years - small userbase, it's the sole reason we get so many cross-gen games/patches right now. I see many people here either don't want to or are unable to accept the fact that Sony is here to make money, nothing more, and they won't bow down to a bunch of noisy kids on the internet who yell "I BOUGHT A NEXT-GEN CONSOLE! I WANT NEXT-GEN GAMES!" - it's cool, and absolutely understandable, but there simply aren't enough people on PS5 to cover all those 100M+ development costs, let alone bring a profit, which is why Sony made the console in the very first place.

And the absolute best thing is, whenever Sony publishes their financial results everyone claps their hands, ears and butt cheeks - well this is what you get when you have an actual, first hand data about the market and follow where the money is, instead of listening to a bunch of fanatics on the internet (from which some openly claim they don't even have PS5 yet lol). I've kept repeating this over and over in the past years and I'll repeat it once again - it's all just a business, it's all about the money.

And the bottom line is, if people are really that upset about the cross-gen strategy, they can always stick with their PS4 and wait for PS5 Slim, when cross-gen titles won't be a thing anymore.

 

[jigglet]

The reason for everything above is the same, and has absolutely everything to do with the conversation

But we're addressing the specific promise of there being "generations", therefore the conversation is about solely about cross generation titles. The expanded discussion about keeping content flowing (outside this thread) involves remasters and ports etc I agree 100%, however if people are debating the very specific claim of there being generations, then yes all of that is actually irrelevant to that conversation.

As I said - show me evidence of any cross gen games from the PS3-PS4 era that went beyond the 18 month mark. Black Ops 3 is the only one I can think of. Where is this evidence of a substantial number of meaningful high profile titles that persisted into 2016?

 

[ZywyPL]

But we're addressing the specific promise of there being "generations", therefore the conversation is about cross generation titles. The expanded discussion involves remasters and ports etc I agree 100%, however if people are attacking the claim of there being generations, then yes it's actually irrelevant to that conversation.

As I said - show me evidence of any cross gen games from the PS3-PS4 era that went beyond the 18 month mark. Black Ops 3 is the only one I can think of. Where is this evidence of a substantial number of meaningful high profile titles that persisted into 2016?

What can I say, Ryan shot himself in the foot with that "we believe in generations" quote, he wanted to sound cool as oppose to MS who openly admitted from the start there will be a cross-gen period (which everyone with a common sense was expecting anyway), only to admit not much later they'll support PS4 for 3-4 more years... I guess he also has to learn the lesson to not to overpromise and underdeliver.

 

[jigglet]

What can I say, Ryan shot himself in the foot with that "we believe in generations" quote, he wanted to sound cool as oppose to MS who openly admitted from the start there will be a cross-gen period (which everyone with a common sense was expecting anyway), only to admit not much later they'll support PS4 for 3-4 more years... I guess he also has to learn the lesson to not to overpromise and underdeliver.

I agree 100%. It was bullshit from day 0. However I think 3-4 years worth of cross gen is not realistic even considering the need to find shortcuts due to coronavirus.

 

[ZywyPL]

I agree 100%. It was bullshit from day 0. However I think 3-4 years worth of cross gen is not realistic even considering the need to find shortcuts due to coronavirus.

I think he greatly overestimated the time period, maybe except for 2D indie games that can run perfectly fine even on mobiles, but if they'll keep the current pace of sold PS5s, I think it's safe to assume there won;t be a single cross-gen title in 2023 and beyond.

 

[THE DUCK]

It should be relevant since DarkMage619 was saying how the XSS is more powerful than last gen. I think someone upset him with a X1X comparison and since then he is always quick to talk the XSS up, as if beating a last gen console is some sort of achievement.


I think highlighting effects and features stripped out of the XSS is the most damning part. It shouldn't be happening, it should only be resolution change. That would make more sense, and be the most fair to gamers. Have the same game just at different resolution.

But, the way it's worked out, what's the point of playing next gen game without any of the fancy features and effects, that's been stripped away? You're missing a part of the experience.
Which seems unfair.



Without the removal of effects and features are you sure it would be a solid 1080p device?


Based on what we are seeing so far it's not really pulling up any trees. Which makes me wonder if a mistake has been made.

It seems closer aligned to the last gen consoles than to the newer.

I don't hate it, but don't see why it gets so robustly defended around here. I have been called someone with an anti MS agenda by some here, (although have owned all their systems) because I dared to suggest that an XSX digital, makes more sense. For everyone.




What's ridiculous about it? It's the only 'next gen' console freely available here and in Europe.

GAME store are even offering a very, very generous exchange offer to help clear the excess stock. Being in that situation will only make their next order of a smaller quantity. Less demand leads to production decreasing and basically going the wrong way to economies of scale. It isn't good for it long term prospects.

Can't see it getting any better if the Switch Pro and BOTW2 releases in the holidays (if those rumours turn out to be true). That and XSS isnt marketed here. At all.

A XSX digital SKU on the other hand , would be just as sold out as the XSX.

You are focusing on features/things that matter the least. Here's what series S gamers are typically looking for:

A cheap machine
Loads games fast
Plays the newest games
Not concerned about resolution
Not concerned about RT

It hits all of these points without issue. So while you are here to guard their best interests, while noble, it probably doesn't matter to them at all.
I have no issue with an XSX digital, and I agree for many people, this would have a great deal of value (just as the PS5 digital). However, it doesn't mean that people can't find value in the S, and it will become more apparent when it's cheaper.
Hardware is fine, price is a little high right now.

I don't think it matters if it's the S, an X digital, XSX, switch pro, I think everything is going to be sold out one way or anther this fall.

 

[Bear*Walken*the*Sweeper]

Takes another look at the Horizon Forbidden West demo......fine by me.

 

[Astral Dog]

im ok with this but i think it will take 2 years at most depending on releases,some games will make sense cross gen, and of course next year there will be plenty of current gen only games to hype the userbase.

Many PC gamers still use the slow hard drive

 

[Astral Dog]

lol i feel so stupid for selling my PS4. sony can't sell their consoles to people who want one and even if they could they won't support it fully.

i bought myself a second hand PS4 on Friday and i'll just keep that until we get a PS5 redesign and actual games that will take full use of the console.

tbf to Sony, they been doing more 'next gen' stuff than any other, its just that typical generation transition take longer these days, Covid, less manufacturing of PS5Series systems, they will take longer to mature due to how dificult is to develop and market a game today compared to the PS2 days.

I didn't bought a PS4 until late 2016 because there weren't enough games i cared about, but i was very happy with my purchase, expect the same here, hell PS5 early days look better than PS4 thanks to good cross gen games, free updates and some exclusive gems like Demons Souls and Ratchet. But some gamers still think we are in 2001

 

[dcmk7]

You are focusing on features/things that matter the least. Here's what series S gamers are typically looking for:

A cheap machine
Loads games fast
Plays the newest games
Not concerned about resolution
Not concerned about RT

It hits all of these points without issue. So while you are here to guard their best interests, while noble, it probably doesn't matter to them at all.
I have no issue with an XSX digital, and I agree for many people, this would have a great deal of value (just as the PS5 digital). However, it doesn't mean that people can't find value in the S, and it will become more apparent when it's cheaper.
Hardware is fine, price is a little high right now.

I don't think it matters if it's the S, an X digital, XSX, switch pro, I think everything is going to be sold out one way or anther this fall.

That is quite speculative. We are both in a position where we don't really know what gamers on a budget are looking for.. except obviously a good price by definition, but what else do they consider?

Sony's done some research into this and concluded, that in the main, gamers like the idea of a console lasting them a long time, feel like a good investment and to be future proof.

Which does go against most of your points. I'm sure with some people, it does suit them just fine.

But leaving aside that aspect, I would say the things that matter the most are the games. So would say it is a good idea if the difference between them would solely be the resolution.

This is why I don't like the idea of missing parts of the game. It just feels, feels the same levels of unfair as when a publisher decides to lock parts of a fully finished game behind some future paywall / DLC.

I know you're going to say, that's totally unrelated, I know, but it just feels that kind of level of unfair. That they aren't getting a full next gen version, it's just compromised version of something next gen.

I'm not sure about your sales prediction, just basing it on there being so much stock in the UK, and Europe, I could pick up one on eBay for under £200 right now. I wouldn't be surprised, to see it discounted by MS soon. It's a complete contrast to the XSX situation.

If it doesn't sell or work out, would you be disappointed if they dropped it? Just like they did with Kinect.

 

[THE DUCK]

That is quite speculative. We are both in a position where we don't really know what gamers on a budget are looking for.. except obviously a good price by definition, but what else do they consider?

Sony's done some research into this and concluded, that in the main, gamers like the idea of a console lasting them a long time, feel like a good investment and to be future proof.

Which does go against most of your points. I'm sure with some people, it does suit them just fine.

But leaving aside that aspect, I would say the things that matter the most are the games. So would say it is a good idea if the difference between them would solely be the resolution.

This is why I don't like the idea of missing parts of the game. It just feels, feels the same levels of unfair as when a publisher decides to lock parts of a fully finished game behind some future paywall / DLC.

I know you're going to say, that's totally unrelated, I know, but it just feels that kind of level of unfair. That they aren't getting a full next gen version, it's just compromised version of something next gen.

I'm not sure about your sales prediction, just basing it on there being so much stock in the UK, and Europe, I could pick up one on eBay for under £200 right now. I wouldn't be surprised, to see it discounted by MS soon. It's a complete contrast to the XSX situation.

If it doesn't sell or work out, would you be disappointed if they dropped it? Just like they did with Kinect.

I guess time will tell. I'm guessing though that MS did quite a bit of market research before they landed on the spec/pricing.

Value propositions are weird though, on the one hand, you can say a flagship phone has a good value proposition if you keep it, but then so does a mid range phone sometimes. I can see happy campers as owners of both, same goes for the S/X.
While one phone owner might be outraged or upset that they have 4gb of ram and a lower res 1080p screen, the next could care less or even see a difference.

I'm not sure if fairness really plays into it, I get what you are saying, they are getting ripped off on the whole enchilada for just a bit more, but by the same token a trip skiing for the weekend might actually be worth more to them.
Or they are little kids who don't care. Or like in my case it's just in the bedroom and has access to the xbox games my big TV's play. (I have to 2 series X and a PS5, there is definitely no way to justify a third Xbox X)

I don't think they will drop it like Kinect......I think it is a key piece for them going forward, but I guess we will see. It's definitely not in the same category as kinect as it's not an optional peripheral.
It's a way for MS to get to a mass market casual price years before the X and PS5 will be able to - it's the whole reason the box exists.

 

[Riky]

I guess time will tell. I'm guessing though that MS did quite a bit of market research before they landed on the spec/pricing.

Value propositions are weird though, on the one hand, you can say a flagship phone has a good value proposition if you keep it, but then so does a mid range phone sometimes. I can see happy campers as owners of both, same goes for the S/X.
While one phone owner might be outraged or upset that they have 4gb of ram and a lower res 1080p screen, the next could care less or even see a difference.

I'm not sure if fairness really plays into it, I get what you are saying, they are getting ripped off on the whole enchilada for just a bit more, but by the same token a trip skiing for the weekend might actually be worth more to them.
Or they are little kids who don't care. Or like in my case it's just in the bedroom and has access to the xbox games my big TV's play. (I have to 2 series X and a PS5, there is definitely no way to justify a third Xbox X)

I don't think they will drop it like Kinect......I think it is a key piece for them going forward, but I guess we will see. It's definitely not in the same category as kinect as it's not an optional peripheral.
It's a way for MS to get to a mass market casual price years before the X and PS5 will be able to - it's the whole reason the box exists.

Exactly and MS were quite open with this when they showed the machine to DF, die shrinks are not going to give the cost savings that previous generations have enjoyed. The Series S is only £249 to start with here in the UK, it will be a long time before the Series X gets to that price if ever. Could the Series S get to £199 or even £149 eventually, that would make it a simple impulse buy and then add in the value of Gamepass.

 

[KRYPT83]

By that logic All Stars, Demon's Souls and R&C would be cross gen too.

But they aren't.

Those are niche games those they ain't big system sellers like HZD and GoW

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Those are niche games those they ain't big system sellers like HZD and GoW

Good lord read

 

[iHaunter]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

"We believe in generation"

They still have many exclusives just for PS5. Are you dumb?

 

[hybrid_birth]

They still have many exclusives just for PS5. Are you dumb?

Now now. Be nice to the children.

 

[sainraja]

People don't understand or quickly forget that, the start of a new generation is always like this and eventually the last generation console is left behind (perhaps it has to do with people who are younger, who get into a generation mid-gen and finally get to experience the start of a new gen which influences the conversation we are seeing now and I guess it makes a little sense why we have this thread due to that). The same will happen this generation but somehow it has become a talking point of 'console warring' fanboys. This is nothing new.

The previous console is not abandoned immediately and Sony has never been the one to quickly drop support for their previous consoles. We're seeing it play out a little differently simply due to the fact that both new gen consoles support backwards compatibility with their predecessor. PS3 got The Last of Us during the year the PS4 was set to be introduced/released and it got a few other releases after the fact.

 

[KyoZz]

They still have many exclusives just for PS5. Are you dumb?

Now now. Be nice to the children.

I know, look who made this thread:

Poll - Your most anticipated PS5 exclusive

Hype check Commander ! First of all, sorry if I missed a game. Secondly: I tried to stay realistic about the games here, that's why I didn't put things like Bloodborne II Same poll for Xbox Exclusives: here Final Fantasy 7 Remake - Part. II It's always nice to get an upgrade, and Square...

www.neogaf.com

Just calm down, relax on the insult. I can agree it wasn't a good joke but in the end I do believe Sony is a little... obscure when it comes to cross-platform.
I'm very (VERY) excited for what's to come on BOTH side.

 

[hybrid_birth]

I know, look who made this thread:

Poll - Your most anticipated PS5 exclusive

Hype check Commander ! First of all, sorry if I missed a game. Secondly: I tried to stay realistic about the games here, that's why I didn't put things like Bloodborne II Same poll for Xbox Exclusives: here Final Fantasy 7 Remake - Part. II It's always nice to get an upgrade, and Square...

www.neogaf.com

Just calm down, relax on the insult. I can agree it wasn't a good joke but in the end I do believe Sony is a little... obscure when it comes to cross-platform.
I'm very (VERY) excited for what's to come on BOTH side.

My bad. I get hangry when I haven't eaten in awhile. Sorry for the insult. No hard feelings.

Everyone surely has a post they regret making.

 

[yurinka]

I think that as happened in every recent generation it's normal to see a couple of years of crossgen games or important games in the previous gen consoles. Specially now that games take longer to develop, so it's more likely that some old game for the previous gen got delayed and releases way late.

In this particular case, we're also in a context where PS4 still has a userbase of almost 100M monthly active users buying games and PS Plus, and if the normal contidions it would be needed to have like 3 years to make the jump to the next gen, now they make that even longer due to the global financial crysis, and to the fact they'll see old consoles supported during a longer period of time by devs. On top of that, both consoles are full BC, so it's easier for devs to make crossgen games or even to release their new games only in the previous gen console because it will still be playable on the new one.

So yes, make sure Sony will continue supporting it during 3 years, and maybe even beyond that.

 

[iHaunter]

I know, look who made this thread:

Poll - Your most anticipated PS5 exclusive

Hype check Commander ! First of all, sorry if I missed a game. Secondly: I tried to stay realistic about the games here, that's why I didn't put things like Bloodborne II Same poll for Xbox Exclusives: here Final Fantasy 7 Remake - Part. II It's always nice to get an upgrade, and Square...

www.neogaf.com

Just calm down, relax on the insult. I can agree it wasn't a good joke but in the end I do believe Sony is a little... obscure when it comes to cross-platform.
I'm very (VERY) excited for what's to come on BOTH side.

I think the problem is people expect what Microsoft did with Halo Infinite, Sony will do with their cross-platform games. Horizon has proven this is not the case.

 

[Bergoglio]

Xbox Series X|S are the only next gen consoles with real next gen exclusives coming in 2021/22, take this as a fact and don't be nervous.

Ouch.