Riky
$MSFT
He also doesn't mention lazy.
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Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition Q&A: ‘Next-Gen Consoles Are Much More Powerful Than We First Thought’
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
- Opinion Game Dev
He also doesn't mention lazy.
dcmk7
Banned
He basically writes out the definition for it.
Key words - "Developers don't want to".
It's so obvious. You really will defend absolutely anything, despite knowing your wrong, won't you.
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Tripolygon
Banned
Is English your second language? I mean that honestly.
If some says you don't want to take time to do something, it implies laziness.
dcmk7
Banned
Thank you, someone gets it.
Riky
$MSFT
Because time is money, developers get paid. They don't want to do it because getting all the RDNA2 performance saving features would mean rewriting their old engine, that would cost a fortune so obviously they don't want to do it. They even talked about this when they discussed Mesh Shaders and SFS after release.
dcmk7
Banned
Getting someone who didn't write the post.. explain what the post meant.
It's incredible
You really are the NeoGaf jester. It's very comical.And nah, he said nothing about finances, post was ALL about the developers and what they don't want to do.
There are better hills to die on
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Riky
$MSFT
Getting someone who didn't write the post.. explain what the post.
Incredible
And nah, he said nothing about finances, post was ALL about the developers and what they don't want to do.
There are better hills to die on
I normally don't want to do things that cost me money and I get no return on to, so I agree with them. Hopefully they manage to get Mesh Shaders, SFS and Tier 2 VRS in their next game.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
No, I'm talking about this, and you know it, because it was already showed in this thread. That was part of the marketing of XSeX.
So you guys didn't see the image of the XSX motherboard? Maybe something is going on with your browser. Let me post it again.
NOTHING about 8k anywhere on the board. So this idea that MS had some sort of false advertising is a joke. Look again at the picture I posted. That is the actual board in the system. How is that in anyway deceptive? Also what do you think a potential customer will see anyway?
Are you serious? You have NEVER proven anything about me and this is just the latest example. A developer choosing to not implement raytracing has nothing to do with whether the console can do it or not. It is not lazy to not implement a feature it is mentally lazy to think that just because all XSS games don't have raytracing to assume it has some problem doing it which was the whole point of what I saying in that thread. It wasn't an attack developers AT ALL. It was about choice not laziness. YOU added laziness in an attempt to smear me but it just makes you look silly just like most of your attacks on the XSS. You don't need to explain it slower you are just wrong and should stop digging. You should take your own advice and look in the mirror. People hurling false claims and making up crap like you have with the XSS and me is far more of an issue than ANYTHING I've done. Again like with the whole John conversation you don't know what you are talking about.
Uh development is always about choice dude. It comes down to time and money. If a developer doesn't want to take the time or spend the money that doesn't indicate laziness. That is the reason that I didn't use the word 'lazy' because that isn't the correct use of the word in this context. Context is the thing you have a hard time understanding. I worded my sentence exactly the way I meant to. You decided to add meaning that was never expressed. You are just having trouble understanding this simple concept. If you think about it long enough you'll understand. It is hilarious to see you talking about ignorance as you demonstrate it post after post. Just stop bro, it's over you were wrong and should move on.Why always feel the need to butt into discussions with me? It's very weird. And usually whenDarkMage619 is involved. Does he ask you to get involved for help when he's frailing??
Do you feel the need to defend him all the time? Or am I just living rent free. It's weird.
But nonetheless to your post..
You're wrong, DarkMage worded his sentence as in developers had a choice.. they could have wanted to but they didn't want to. Attempting to qualify what he mean is hilarious.
Can't excuse ignorance.
And since you're struggling with what lazy means, here is a definition:
"A person is being lazy if he is able to carry out some activity that he ought to carry out, but is disinclined to do so because of the effort involved."
dcmk7
Banned
Studio owners, who are paying the bills maybe.
Developers.. who are paid to code? No way. I'm sure they want to put the best product out there. And be proud of it.
Doing different stuff is going to improve them as a coder.
Your theory doesn't hold up. At all.
Weird.. it's like you're the one who wrote the post and you're desperately trying to backtrack anyway you can.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
So you didn't see the PROMOTIONAL PICTURES WITH 8K that MS POSTED?So you guys didn't see the image of the XSX motherboard? Maybe something is going on with your browser. Let me post it again.
NOTHING about 8k anywhere on the board. So this idea that MS had some sort of false advertising is a joke. Look again at the picture I posted. That is the actual board in the system. How is that in anyway deceptive? Also what do you think a potential customer will see anyway?
Are you serious? You have NEVER proven anything about me and this is just the latest example. A developer choosing to not implement raytracing has nothing to do with whether the console can do it or not. It is not lazy to not implement a feature it is mentally lazy to think that just because all XSS games don't have raytracing to assume it has some problem doing it which was the whole point of what I saying in that thread. It wasn't an attack developers AT ALL. It was about choice not laziness. YOU added laziness in an attempt to smear me but it just makes you look silly just like most of your attacks on the XSS. You don't need to explain it slower you are just wrong and should stop digging. You should take your own advice and look in the mirror. People hurling false claims and making up crap like you have with the XSS and me is far more of an issue than ANYTHING I've done. Again like with the whole John conversation you don't know what you are talking about.
Uh development is always about choice dude. It comes down to time and money. If a developer doesn't want to take the time or spend the money that doesn't indicate laziness. That is the reason that I didn't use the word 'lazy' because that isn't the correct use of the word in this context. Context is the thing you have a hard time understanding. I worded my sentence exactly the way I meant to. You decided to add meaning that was never expressed. You are just having trouble understanding this simple concept. If you think about it long enough you'll understand. It is hilarious to see you talking about ignorance as you demonstrate it post after post. Just stop bro, it's over you were wrong and should move on.
You can't see the side of the XSX box?
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Tripolygon
Banned
This applies to all developers currently as games are still being made for last gen hardware. Most engines have not been fully updated for current gen. Interestingly enough or it is? Majority of those performance saving features has been available on PC since late 2018 but were left untapped for the most part. Now that AMD and current consoles have them standard, i would wager developers would start leveraging majority of those features by the 2nd or 3rd wave of games. That cost of time to develop those new features are inherent to change in generation of hardware so you can do it now or do it later, the cost is still going to be there.
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dcmk7
Banned
No one mentioned money.
Riky
mentioned money. It's cute to see you both co-ordinated. In this revisionism. You two have a very strange relationship, buddy up when one or the other is frailing in a hopeless argument.You called these developers lazy because they don't want to add features. It's ok. You can learn from this.
Own it man.
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DarkMage619
$MSFT
Studio owners make the final calls on studio decisions. It was proven with Cyberpunk 2077. There was a reason it was pushed out when it wasn't ready on last gen consoles. The studio owners wanted it out. Developers didn't make that call. You don't seem to understand how business works man. This again goes against the lie that I called them lazy. In some cases they don't even have the power to do the things they want when it comes to game development. You should really stop.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
I mentioned money man. I know what I meant. You are weirdly trying to ascribe meaning to something I didn't say. Give up you are wrong move on.No one mentioned money.
You called these developers lazy because they don't want to add features. It's ok. You can learn from this.
Own it man.
Riky
$MSFT
They were interviewed after release and explained why they didn't want to use Mesh Shaders etc. Also those features have only recently been added to the GDK so they probably didn't want to delay the release to incorporate them.
There are many more reasons people don't want to do things.
assurdum
Banned
Tripolygon
Banned
Is it though?
The senior hardware director just randomly calls himself David 8K Prien? While posting pictures of prototype hardware with 8K printed on it? Same hardware that Phil Spencer said was capable of 8K, 8K written on the box as a feature? Its not an advertisement made to inform people that the hardware they are purchasing is capable of 8K?
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dcmk7
Banned
Some serious goalpost moving now dude. It's funny to watch.
But let's not lose sight of your original post.
Developers don't want to, they could want to, but they don't want.
Implying their laziness to work. No where you mention studio owners or finances. No where.
Your post couldn't be more clearer. Which is a compliment. As normally it's incoherent. But own your mistake and move on. And stop getting
Riky
to help fight your battles for goodness sake.Just just stop making ignorant claims about developers work ethic. That's all, it's simple. Claims like that don't make you look clever, quite the opposite and the forum looks worse because of it. Should encourage more people from the industry to join this great forum, not discourage them away with ignorant posts.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Who's demigod?
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Azurro
Banned
You are the one that posted it and you must have a point that you wanted to support with that quote.
Tell me, what is your opinion about that quote that mentions that PS5 isn't full RDNA2? I assume you agree with it. Otherwise, explain yourself.
Provide the link for the COD Devs.
"Xbox Series X|S are the only next-generation consoles with full hardware support for all the RDNA 2 capabilities AMD showcased today."
A Closer Look at How Xbox Series X|S Integrates Full AMD RDNA 2 Architecture - Xbox Wire
We here at Team Xbox would like to congratulate and celebrate our amazing partners at AMD on today’s announcement of the Radeon RX 6000 Series of RDNA 2 GPUs. It was incredible to see AMD demonstrate the power and potential that the new AMD RDNA 2 architecture can deliver to gamers around the...news.xbox.com
"The PlayStation 5, on the other hand, despite being based on RDNA 2 tech, won’t support many of the next-gen features from AMD. For the past few months, many people have been questioning PS5’s capabilities and its integration with RDNA 2. And, while Mark Cerny did state that it was based on AMD’s RDNA 2 architecture, we never got confirmation of the PS5 fully supporting all the features. However, today’s announcement confirms that the PS5 indeed isn’t on equal footing with the Xbox Series S and X when it comes to the GPU feature set."
Confirmed: PS5 doesn't have full RDNA 2 integration but Xbox Series X|S do
AMD and Microsoft have confirmed that the Xbox Series S and X are the only next-gen consoles with full RDNA 2 integration.factschronicle.com
"
What we do know is that Microsoft has had a teraflop lead in raw power when compared to PS5. A teraflop is used to measure operations per second. The Xbox Series X sits at 12 teraflops to PlayStation’s 10.3. Given that a teraflop equates to 10^2 operations per second, a 1.7 lead by Microsoft is significant. While both the Xbox Series X and PS5 share the same AMD RDNA 2 architecture, given today’s announcement, Microsoft was able to secure more capable chips.
It means that this upcoming generation of consoles should see higher fidelity ray tracing, mesh shaders, and framerate on Xbox. Even then, it will be up to developers to optimize code to maximize all that power. "
Xbox Series X secret weapon against PS5 just revealed
Xbox Series X could have a major performance advantage against the PS5www.tomsguide.com
The Call of Duty lead artists is quoted here, they're comments were included in a Neogaf discussion thread early last year.
It's pretty clear cut that PS5 does VRS how it is in RDNA2.
PS5 Has VRS, Confirms Activision Lead Artist
Despite not having been officially acknowledged, PlayStation 5 will indeed be fully utilizing Variable Rate Shading (VRS) for next-generation games. In a
segmentnext.com
Regarding the other things, Mesh Shading has already been confirmed by how UE5 works and we've seen variable shading in use on the Nanite/Lumen demos, along with various examples in use on countless new developers beginning to work with the new technology and that works fully on PS5.
Things like sampler feedback streaming are comparable to Sony's own API and hardware for data streaming in and out of the SSD.
It seems like those articles you're quoting have a lot of negative speculation about PS5, when we're actually getting real results shown that prove the PS5 isn't lacking in the very features from RDNA2 that were claimed to be missing in those articles.
It seemed that way from reading your post, if that isn't what you meant then I apologize for making those statements, it just gets very tiresome to keep seeing this same old stuff, when there's no proof it's the case.
There's nothing in the 4A interview this thread quoted showing the developers saying that PS5 uses software VRS, when the XBox Series Consoles use hardware, if 4A's engine uses software then that's what it uses on both platform ecosystems.
Seems like a fair bit of hardware available in either console ecosystem hasn't been used to any real extent yet.
FSR in particular seems to be covering a bunch of features that will cater to RDNA2's full feature set looking at the GPU Open page, not just Super Resolution, but also VRS and a tonne of other effects that will make the overall hardware performance go further than without it.
With that releasing for general use today (I'm in the UK, it's after midnight now here), I'm hoping we'll get some demos showing what the results are.
I'm hoping more PlayStation devs get added to the roster of devs, it's only Guerrilla Games so far, perhaps that's a hint that Horizon Forbidden West will use FSR.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
How sad for you man. I know it must be rough when the developer you just KNEW sided with you about the XSS admits that the system is more powerful than they thought and made you look silly thinking that the system wouldn't be capable of running games well this generation. I have no idea why you are so hell bent on presenting the XSS as some sort of problem when you were told over and over again that you didn't know what you were talking about and the system wasn't even using its memory saving features. You were wrong.Some serious goalpost moving now dude. It's funny to watch.
But let's not lose sight of your original post.
Developers don't want to, they could want to, but they don't want.
Implying their laziness to work. No where you mention studio owners or finances. No where.
Your post couldn't be more clearer. Which is a compliment. As normally it's incoherent. But own your mistake and move on. And stop getting
Just just stop making ignorant claims about developers work ethic. That's all, it's simple. Claims like that don't make you look clever, quite the opposite and the forum looks worse because of it. Should encourage more people from the industry to join this great forum, not discourage them away with ignorant posts.
Then of course you were completely wrong when you tried to blame Xbox gamers for John getting ran off of this forum. You tried to obfuscate the issue by talking about this complaints on Twitter after he had already left this forum which was pretty sad. Sony fans made him leave. What happened after that sucks but it doesn't change the fact that he left because of Sony fan harassment here. You were wrong.
Now you are working mightily trying to put words into my mouth and claiming things you know I never said. Bonus points for trying to make me out to be the reason John left. That was a cute touch. The idea that you would know what I meant in my posts more than I do is pretty darn arrogant and hilarious at the same time. The facts remain. I NEVER called any developer lazy. You took my comments about raytracing out of context and tried to apply them to my comments about SFS and the memory saving features of the XSS which shows you have some serious issues with reading comprehension on top of everything else. You were wrong AGAIN.
I've never seen someone take so many 'L' all at once. You have some nerve to call
Riky
names after your sad display. Perfect case of people in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones. You are better off just admitting you were wrong like you said when you were corrected numerous times about the John situation and maybe reading up on English comprehension AND the XSS so next time you start to pop off you'll have at least have a chance to be correct. That was pathetic display bro.What are you saying? One more time. Let's see what the XSX motherboard looks like shall we?
This is the actual hardware. This is the proof of misleading marketing? I have already said that the 8K on the XSX box makes no reference to gaming at all. PS5's box doesn't really provide any context at all. I also said that this isn't the end of the world but it is an example of how Sony get's judged by one standard and MS gets judged by a different more negative standard like the Phil's blurring of generational lines vs. 'we believe in generations' thing. It's like how the XSS gets the harshest judgement despite the fact that it is the cheapest current gen device on the market. You'd figure it would get some understanding seeing how the cost of entry is so low but NOPE it gets held to the HIGHEST standard oddly. Still haven't see anyone explain why the XSS at less than 1440p in Metro is a major problem but the PS5 and to a much lesser extent the XSX is given a pass. Speaking of the XSS and Metro...
This is a nice honest video about the updated Metro game on XSS. The idea that this game is running on a $300 console is damn impressive. The fact that this same box has fantastic emulation, the same feature set as the XSX, and more 120 fps games than more expensive systems is a bonus. I have to tip my hat to MS for this and I am really looking forward to seeing what it can do in the future. It's sad so many are out to hate on this technical marvel but I guess it's easier to hate than congratulate especially if MS is involved. Oh well.
dcmk7
Banned
How sad for you man. I know it must be rough when the developer you just KNEW sided with you about the XSS admits that the system is more powerful than they thought and made you look silly thinking that the system wouldn't be capable of running games well this generation. I have no idea why you are so hell bent on presenting the XSS as some sort of problem when you were told over and over again that you didn't know what you were talking about and the system wasn't even using its memory saving features. You were wrong.
Then of course you were completely wrong when you tried to blame Xbox gamers for John getting ran off of this forum. You tried to obfuscate the issue by talking about this complaints on Twitter after he had already left this forum which was pretty sad. Sony fans made him leave. What happened after that sucks but it doesn't change the fact that he left because of Sony fan harassment here. You were wrong.
Now you are working mightily trying to put words into my mouth and claiming things you know I never said. Bonus points for trying to make me out to be the reason John left. That was a cute touch. The idea that you would know what I meant in my posts more than I do is pretty darn arrogant and hilarious at the same time. The facts remain. I NEVER called any developer lazy. You took my comments about raytracing out of context and tried to apply them to my comments about SFS and the memory saving features of the XSS which shows you have some serious issues with reading comprehension on top of everything else. You were wrong AGAIN.
I've never seen someone take so many 'L' all at once. You have some nerve to call
This is just incoherent gibberish, and some weird ass nonsense. I try and present facts and quotes in all my arguments, whereas you seem to just ramble on about nothing.
Don't see why you would go so far out of your way to defend the indefensible, even got poor
Riky
to help you out of your self-inflicted mess, and you just ended up embarrassing the both of you. The desperate act of revisionism didn't really work out.Which makes me think that you don't quite understand what you wrote.. nothing about finances you're clearly questioning their work ethic to incorporate some features. Look again..
It's so obvious what you meant - you implied they are lazy. No getting around that. Stupidly ignorant. And it's not just this post there are many more posts of yours like this.
So it's better for you to just own it already. You said it, it's happened. Learn from it and do better next time.
But posting a big wall of text full of incoherent rambling, is something I can't take seriously at all.
What are you saying? One more time. Let's see what the XSX motherboard looks like shall we?
This is the actual hardware. This is the proof of misleading marketing? I have already said that the 8K on the XSX box makes no reference to gaming at all. PS5's box doesn't really provide any context at all. I also said that this isn't the end of the world but it is an example of how Sony get's judged by one standard and MS gets judged by a different more negative standard like the Phil's blurring of generational lines vs. 'we believe in generations' thing. It's like how the XSS gets the harshest judgement despite the fact that it is the cheapest current gen device on the market. You'd figure it would get some understanding seeing how the cost of entry is so low but NOPE it gets held to the HIGHEST standard oddly. Still haven't see anyone explain why the XSS at less than 1440p in Metro is a major problem but the PS5 and to a much lesser extent the XSX is given a pass. Speaking of the XSS and Metro...
This is a nice honest video about the updated Metro game on XSS. The idea that this game is running on a $300 console is damn impressive. The fact that this same box has fantastic emulation, the same feature set as the XSX, and more 120 fps games than more expensive systems is a bonus. I have to tip my hat to MS for this and I am really looking forward to seeing what it can do in the future. It's sad so many are out to hate on this technical marvel but I guess it's easier to hate than congratulate especially if MS is involved. Oh well.
Oh look at that, it seems someone else thinks you are being disingenuous.
Just stop trolling half of the forum with these stupid games. This desperate act of yours attempting to make Microsoft look better than Sony, at everything, is cringey as hell. As proven by hiding your broken XSX on the forum.
And PS: I don't think you can call something a technical marvel when the price to terraflops ratio is the worst out of all next gen consoles, and some games run in ~500p, in 2021.
Nintendo Switch has been running games at that resolution for ages. So it's certainly no marvel.
..and a huge disadvantage that it has, is it can't run a lot of cross gen or next gen games unless they're in a heavily compromised state. Unlike the other consoles.
All facts dude. Can't blame me for that one.
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Tripolygon
Banned
I am saying you can't on one hand say Sony is misleading by advertising HDMI 2.1 features on their box and then in the same breath say oh Microsoft is not misleading using some mental gymnastic nonsensical reasons. First the writing is on the side, then its small, then they have 8K HDR, then they don't imply gaming.
Microsoft's own Marketing video states that XSX supports 8K, Phil Spencer wrote a press release stating XSX supports 8K, the Senior Hardware Director changed his name to 8K on twitter, Phil Spencer twitted out a prototype SoC with 8K on it. Can you show me Sony doing the same thing?
This is Sony's marketing on 8K
What is even funny is neither console can currently out 8K even though they have 8K written on the box. That particular feature is expected in a future update for both consoles.
The actual final SoC thats inside the box does not have the 8K printed on it but the Marketing SoC they used to Market which they also gave a sample to Digital Foundry has 8K printed on it. We are talking about Marketing here.
The context is literally there 8K, 4K 120fps and HDR are subject to supported content and future software update in fine print. Those are HDMI 2.1 features. What context do you want? It is exactly what is on the XSX Box, they list those same things under the same fine print context.
Both companies can be judged by the same standard if they are doing the same thing but they are clearly not. One company made a video talking about 8K, released a marketing material on twitter that has 8K printed on the SoC, talked about 8K in a press release and has the Senior Hardware director change his name to 8K on twitter. Sony has 8K, 4K 120fps and HDR printed in the corner of the box which is clearly the HDMI 2.1 features just like it is on XSX box.
Probably because one company bothered to release next gen exclusives? And maybe because the "we believe in generations" thing was given context by Jim Ryan. The complete quote
"We have always said that we believe in generations. We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features.
"We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."
Demon's Soul launched on PS5 and used unique PS5 features that showed things that cannot be done on the previous generation of consoles. Astro's PlayRoom and recently Returnal was praised to high heavens for the integration of Dual Sense controller. Ratchet and Clank is lauded as some of the best looking current gen game with use of raytracing. I don't think a single Xbox Series X first party game has used raytracing outside the Minecraft demo.
Can you show me where in that quote when Jim said we believe in generation to mean no cross gen games? If you can't then both companies cannot be judge the same for things that have absolutely nothing to do with the other. The press tend to have a habit of misquoting someone and running with it.
I disagree. It is literally $100 off from PS5 which was the sweet spot for console price last gen. People literally screamed when Sony announced $399 compared to XBO $499. Before this gen started some assumed the price would be at least $599 but both consoles launched at $499. Sony was even able to launch a second sku for $399. Microsoft launched a weaker console for $299 that is severely outclassed by $399 PS5. I have always said from the start that it is a terrible proposition for a next gen experience and already we see it is sometimes getting a severely cutback next gen experience. When Microsoft marketing again made it seem like it will play all Xbox Series X games at 1440p and nothing else will be cutback. Keyword here for me is severely cutback. Excellent CPU performance, terrible GPU performance. If it was at least 6TF i would understand but it is 4TF for $299 when PS5 DE is $399 for 10.23TF. And the kicker is the $299 price point is not making it fly off the shelf. One thing i can say though that it is a good companion device for those who already have the bigger consoles. As a main console for "next gen" experience it is bad. I said it when they first announced it and it hasn't proved otherwise.
I don't even understand what any of this has to do with metro so that my last on this subject. Neither console is trying to mislead with the 8K marketing. They are simply stating the HDMI 2.1 feature allow for it. If i recall correctly Falconeer was supposed to support 8K but thats just internal rendering not output.
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The latency requirements are whatever your chosen game/application heuristic is, SFS does not dictate that. If you want to try doing 'next frame/just in time' then yes - you will have more misses without an SSD - but that's entirely a software decision. Even MSs tech-demo did not look like cutting it 'that' close (only 1 frame out), given the memory footprint was still quite large (and variable).
That aside - Rage did view-dependent streaming off of mechanical drives. As did a few others (including for geometry at scales of nanite) - it's all about tuning your data flow (and of course resolution/detail requirements were lower back then).
Worth noting that COD implementation is Tier 2 equivalent though. But even if it was hw-based on both it could be using different methodology (we've covered this before).
dcmk7
Banned
Really good post. Totally agree about the PS5 DE, it's really well priced for what's in the box. In fact it's the best price to terraflops, out of the bunch.I am saying you can't on one hand say Sony is misleading by advertising HDMI 2.1 features on their box and then in the same breath say oh Microsoft is not misleading using some mental gymnastic nonsensical reasons. First the writing is on the side, then its small, then they have 8K HDR, then they don't imply gaming.
Microsoft's own Marketing video states that XSX supports 8K, Phil Spencer wrote a press release stating XSX supports 8K, the Senior Hardware Director changed his name to 8K on twitter, Phil Spencer twitted out a prototype SoC with 8K on it. Can you show me Sony doing the same thing?
This is Sony's marketing on 8K
What is even funny is neither console can currently out 8K even though they have 8K written on the box. That particular feature is expected in a future update for both consoles.
The actual final SoC thats inside the box does not have the 8K printed on it but the Marketing SoC they used to Market which they also gave a sample to Digital Foundry has 8K printed on it. We are talking about Marketing here.
The context is literally there 8K, 4K 120fps and HDR are subject to supported content and future software update in fine print. Those are HDMI 2.1 features. What context do you want? It is exactly what is on the XSX Box, they list those same things under the same fine print context.
Both companies can be judged by the same standard if they are doing the same thing but they are clearly not. One company made a video talking about 8K, released a marketing material on twitter that has 8K printed on the SoC, talked about 8K in a press release and has the Senior Hardware director change his name to 8K on twitter. Sony has 8K, 4K 120fps and HDR printed in the corner of the box which is clearly the HDMI 2.1 features just like it is on XSX box.
Probably because one company bothered to release next gen exclusives? And maybe because the "we believe in generations" thing was given context by Jim Ryan. The complete quote
"We have always said that we believe in generations. We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features.
"We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."
Demon's Soul launched on PS5 and used unique PS5 features that showed things that cannot be done on the previous generation of consoles. Astro's PlayRoom and recently Returnal was praised to high heavens for the integration of Dual Sense controller. Ratchet and Clank is lauded as some of the best looking current gen game with use of raytracing. I don't think a single Xbox Series X first party game has used raytracing outside the Minecraft demo.
Can you show me where in that quote when Jim said we believe in generation to mean no cross gen games? If you can't then both companies cannot be judge the same for things that have absolutely nothing to do with the other. The press tend to have a habit of misquoting someone and running with it.
I disagree. It is literally $100 off from PS5 which was the sweet spot for console price last gen. People literally screamed when Sony announced $399 compared to XBO $499. Before this gen started some assumed the price would be at least $599 but both consoles launched at $499. Sony was even able to launch a second sku for $399. Microsoft launched a weaker console for $299 that is severely outclassed by $399 PS5. I have always said from the start that it is a terrible proposition for a next gen experience and already we see it is sometimes getting a severely cutback next gen experience. When Microsoft marketing again made it seem like it will play all Xbox Series X games at 1440p and nothing else will be cutback. Keyword here for me is severely cutback. Excellent CPU performance, terrible GPU performance. If it was at least 6TF i would understand but it is 4TF for $299 when PS5 DE is $399 for 10.23TF.
Just a shame they can't manufacture more of them.
Tripolygon
Banned
I have a feeling that since PS5 Disk is gonna start making profit, once the chip shortage stabilizes they will increase the production for PS5 DE. They get bigger cut from digital sales that way. Just my theory anyway.
I agree. I have mentioned that SFS is a more robust solution that was implemented through hardware feature, and not rely on software. It is also in DX12U feature set that only RDNA 2 and 2xxx series+ GPUs can run it
Everything is possible through software emulation though, just not as efficient in most cases.
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Negotiator101
Member
Now you're stating your opinion as fact and that's when you need a reality check.
A technique called Sampler Feedback Streaming - SFS - was built to more closely marry the memory demands of the GPU, intelligently loading in the texture mip data that's actually required with the guarantee of a lower quality mip available if the higher quality version isn't readily available, stopping GPU stalls and frame-time spikes. Bespoke hardware within the GPU is available to smooth the transition between mips, on the off-chance that the higher quality texture arrives a frame or two later
"We will be exploring how we can use it in future titles to both increase the texture detail in our game beyond what we can fit into memory, as well as reduce load times further by increasing on-demand loading to just before we need it, instead of pre-loading everything up-front as we would use a more traditional ‘level loading’ approach.”
The Coalition.
“We were able to create and add new capabilities to the Xbox Series X GPU which enables it to only load the sub-portions of a mip level into memory, on-demand, just in time for when the GPU requires the data. This innovation results in approximately 2.5x the effective I/O throughput and memory usage above and beyond the raw hardware capabilities on average”
"Sampler Feedback Streaming (SMS) allows us to load textures and makes the SSD drive act as a multiplier of physical memory that adds to the memory that the machine itself has,”
That being said, games have been streaming virtual memory pages for a while. It's called Partially Resident Textures. Using Sampler Feedback to trigger page reads is sort of the "new hotness".
This is the next level of PRT, its the same principle but much better and is not the same tech. It would be like comparing a HDD to a SSD same principle but better in every conceivable way. Opinions are fine but state as such, you have very little understanding of what you're talking about yet you state it as fact.
assurdum
Banned
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
You keep making this absurdely disingenuous comparison over and over again because you're a troll. I wonder how long you'll keep getting away with it.
dcmk7
Banned
I don't understand, I am not lying or making up stuff to prove a point. It is based on analyst results and specs that we have available right now.
It is directly replying to his claim that the machine is the best value proposition out there at the moment. As soon as you start looking into that claim closer, it doesn't hold water.
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Azurro
Banned
Hey Riky, it seems you have forgotten to reply. Your quote says that the PS5 has an "incomplete" RDNA2 implementation, implying it's not RDNA2.
Do you agree? Is PS5 not full RDNA2?
Bernd Lauert
Banned
You'd understand if someone was comparing the PS5 to the Xbox One because both drop below 1080p in some games.
This simply isn't true. It was about RAM savings even in the past. Never about performance. If anything it sacrifices a small bit of performance for RAM savings in the past whereas now it saves both. Rage ran on a HDD but still used tiled resources with PRT.
The granite middleware for Unreal Engine runs on PS4 and xbox one and does essentially what 'SFS' does.
Granite SDK | Graphine | Texture streaming and compression middleware
Stay ahead with advanced texture streaming
dcmk7
Banned
Is it just PS5 that does that?
Believe XSX experiences that too.
The Medium, immediately comes to mind, dropping down to 900p. Despite running at 30fps.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Nice whataboutism. Doesn't deflect from the fact that you're trolling.
dcmk7
Banned
I merely brought up the fact that XSX is amongst the PS5, in the comparison you described.
I still don't understand how I'm trolling by rebutting someone, by using facts which were contrary to their claim.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
So if you said that the PS5 was a technical marvel, and I told you that it's not because it's pushing 900p in 2021, just like the Xbox One which was already underpowered in 2013, that would be a valid rebuttal and not trolling? I'll hold you to that standard
Unknown?
Member
Eh now you're going into crazy land. Not a better deal? PS5 DE makes Series S a terrible deal. For $100 more you get a much more capable machine. Do you understand value at all?
Series X is a good value, Series S is not
Edit: Nevermind it was already posted.
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
People need to learn that Gamepass is a core part of the XSS deal. If you're about saving money, PS5 DE might still be a great deal for 400 bucks, but spending 70 bucks per game on the digital store isn't.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
I already addressed that, and you know it, so what's your point? This isn't the gotcha you think it is.
8K HDR. Still want to play dumb?
dcmk7
Banned
Difference being ~500p is an awful figure for a next gen console.So if you said that the PS5 was a technical marvel, and I told you that it's not because it's pushing 900p in 2021, just like the Xbox One which was already underpowered in 2013, that would be a valid rebuttal and not trolling? I'll hold you to that standard
I'm not thrilled with the drops to sub HD output from PS5 and XSX, not at all.
I wasn't even with the X1X, which for its age is / was a beast.
But something have to live with.
Certainly wouldn't call any of them technical marvels.
Nice try though.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Not while it's pushing RTGI at 60 fps. That's why your Switch comparisons come off as trolling.
dcmk7
Banned
GamePass on XSS just means (at least for the majority of the time) playing compromised version of games, let's be honest here.
And it's running Xbox One S version of BC games.
It can't fully embrace full next gen. Since features have to be stripped out, to get it to run on the box.
Like said before but XSX digital + GP would have been a beastly combo.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
The promise is to play next gen games on a budget. That's exactly what the XSS delivers. How compromised the games are is quite subjective. PS5 and XSX games look compromised compared to PC versions. It is what it is.