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[Julius Ibidus]

Platform wars are getting intense

meh, the quality of nerd fights here seems pretty low. they need to step up their game.

 

[MikeM]

There are millions more computers with much better specs than XSX and ps5 out in the wild, for the past 2-3 years.

Let me ask you a question. How many ps4 owners, now have possession of a ps5? Extremely low percent.

I don't get why this "point" keeps getting brought up?

The original question was about the PS5 being outdated. Everyone knows the PS4 is. I was merely pointing out that the PS5 isn't outdated relative to what the majority of PC gamers game with, especially considering that all new Radeon cards are RDNA2 based cards (same as PS5 and XSX).

PC will always be master race. Don't worry- your crown is safe.

 

[yamaci17]

Are you talking about this?

It's literally a screenshot from a Game Stack DirectStorage talk meant for the developers, it's not some marketing talk or buzzwords for the general public. It is no different from a GDC talk or a SIGGRAPH talk.

You can stay in denial, for all I care. Speaking of credibility, at least I back up what I say with actual dev talk, whitepapers, and quotes from rendering/engine programmers unlike some people here.

i will be honest, i don't think "rtx io" will be a replacement for special io decompression units that are present on xbox / ps5

probably nextgen motherboards will have specialized i/o chips that handle this i/o work. for some reason, i think gpus won't be able to do this because they're on the receiving end of the i/o... some say there's DMA and such but it seems like its in a primitive state.

in short, i don't think any current motherboards will be able to replicate ps5/xbox sx in regards of data streaming from nvme ssds. i mean they will try some whacked up API to make something work, but in the end, best implementations will be with ddr5-nextgen boards where I think will include special I/O chips that is tailored to work best with nextgen apis

 

[Kazekage1981]

Seagate PCIe4 Next-Gen Storage Thread

Perhaps their announcement will give more info on DirectStorageAPI

 

[Md Ray]

i will be honest, i don't think "rtx io" will be a replacement for special io decompression units that are present on xbox / ps5

probably nextgen motherboards will have specialized i/o chips that handle this i/o work. for some reason, i think gpus won't be able to do this because they're on the receiving end of the i/o... some say there's DMA and such but it seems like its in a primitive state.

in short, i don't think any current motherboards will be able to replicate ps5/xbox sx in regards of data streaming from nvme ssds. i mean they will try some whacked up API to make something work, but in the end, best implementations will be with ddr5-nextgen boards where I think will include special I/O chips that is tailored to work best with nextgen apis

Yeah, according to Ampere whitepaper, they'll be making use of the GPU's SMs, DMA, and copy engines for asset decompression.

I don't think it will be on the motherboard though. Their "future silicon implementation" implies it'll be incorporated into the GPU. I think we'll see decompression moving from GPU's SM's to dedicated decompression units in the next-gen GPUs, kinda like how ray-tracing on 10-series GPUs can be performed on SMs but in RTX cards there's a dedicated RT hardware for RT acceleration.

 

[yamaci17]

Yeah, according to Ampere whitepaper, they'll be making use of the GPU's SMs, DMA, and copy engines for asset decompression.

I don't think it will be on the motherboard though. Their "future silicon implementation" implies it'll be incorporated into the GPU. I think we'll see decompression moving from GPU's SM's to dedicated decompression units in the next-gen GPUs, kinda like how ray-tracing on 10-series GPUs can be performed on SMs but in RTX cards there's a dedicated RT hardware for RT acceleration.

imagine this running fine on a x470 or z370, that would be crazy and surely it would see a wide adoption. but "fine" as in, it is really functional...

from technology standpoint, aside from pcie slots being faster, i see no technological advancements on current gen mobos such as "x570", "z590" and such. they all have the same old DMA which is present on mobos since am3/ddr3/skylake era

 

[ResilientBanana]

So I/O throughput is great now to those guys shitting on PS5's SSD and I/O?

I don't think anyone denied that, but it would be nice if the Sony fanboys didn't treat it like something no other machine can do.

 

[IllegalLemon]

Hell yeah this with RTX IO and the upcoming PCIe 5.0 is gonna rad. PCIe 5.0 will allow 14GBps SSDs, compare that to PS5s 5.5GBps. Shits gonna be get real in these upcoming years.

Just to temper your expectations, those 14 GB/s you see advertised for pcie 5.0 m.2 is just a number, a theoretical peak speed, that is only achieved for short, bursty workloads, for short bursts of time and not indefinitely. The heat generated if it stuck to that peak would be enough to burn a whole through a motherboard. That's why a hotplug is in place to throttle an m.2 once the software senses that the temperature is too high. There's no pcie 4.0 ssd that I've seen capable of running at its peak advertised speeds indefinitely. People who thought that the ps5 ssd could run at its peak speed indefinitely and in an enclosed space no less, need to get their heads checked. It won't happen in a ps5 and it won't happen in a pc either as heat is a big enemy of electronics and electronic circuits and shortens their life span drastically, that's why m.2's never run at their peak speeds indefinitely. Longevity and reliability are more important than peak speeds.

 

[clintar]

I don't think anyone denied that, but it would be nice if the Sony fanboys didn't treat it like something no other machine can do.

Or you can accept facts... Whatever

 

[Brofist]

The original question was about the PS5 being outdated. Everyone knows the PS4 is. I was merely pointing out that the PS5 isn't outdated relative to what the majority of PC gamers game with, especially considering that all new Radeon cards are RDNA2 based cards (same as PS5 and XSX).

PC will always be master race. Don't worry- your crown is safe.

His point was that the Steam survey is a flawed way of looking at it. If you were to do a similar "console survey" PS5 would account for a very low percentage of total consoles out there. Why? Because of course older products which have had a much longer sales cycle have sold a lot more.

Mid and high end GPUs are flying off the shelves and more people than ever are building gaming PCs. That's more relevant than Steam survey.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

His point was that the Steam survey is a flawed way of looking at it. If you were to do a similar "console survey" PS5 would account for a very low percentage of total consoles out there. Why? Because of course older products which have had a much longer sales cycle have sold a lot more.

Mid and high end GPUs are flying off the shelves and more people than ever are building gaming PCs. That's more relevant than Steam survey.

Exactly. Didn't really think it would need to be dumbed down and explained, so I thank you for that. It's funny how some use a scenario to make PC look bad, without realizing that same thing can be applied right back to their plastic box of choice. Silly warriors.

 

[Topher]

His point was that the Steam survey is a flawed way of looking at it. If you were to do a similar "console survey" PS5 would account for a very low percentage of total consoles out there. Why? Because of course older products which have had a much longer sales cycle have sold a lot more.

Mid and high end GPUs are flying off the shelves and more people than ever are building gaming PCs. That's more relevant than Steam survey.

That is right. If we are going to compare the most popular PC configurations to consoles then compare that to the most popular console, not the latest and greatest. I would say that is the base PS4.

The best argument console gamers can make is the value for the money.

 

[MikeM]

Exactly. Didn't really think it would need to be dumbed down and explained, so I thank you for that. It's funny how some use a scenario to make PC look bad, without realizing that same thing can be applied right back to their plastic box of choice. Silly warriors.

In no way did I attempt to make PC "look bad." Don't take it personal next time.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

In no way did I attempt to make PC "look bad." Don't take it personal next time.

I'm not taking about you though...? I'm saying in general about half of the posters in this thread. I'm sorry if you think I'm targeting you, but this applies to all the debbie downers, and insecure console warriors.

 

[RoadHazard]

I don't think anyone denied that, but it would be nice if the Sony fanboys didn't treat it like something no other machine can do.

What other machine can currently do it with the same sustained throughput as the PS5? No consumer PC can (even with a 7GB/s SSD, for reasons explained by others in the thread), the Series can't. PC will catch up, but for now it's lagging behind rather significantly.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

What other machine can currently do it with the same sustained throughput as the PS5? No consumer PC can (even with a 7GB/s SSD, for reasons explained by others in the thread), the Series can't. PC will catch up, but for now it's lagging behind rather significantly.

Until direct storage comes out, I'm pretty sure the general consensus is: Better graphics, framerates, IQ, etc >>>>> faster loading. And even when it does release for PC, Better graphics, framerates, IQ, etc >>>>> faster loading.


I'll take 2 seconds longer to load, to have all the benefits listed above. Nothing can be done to make the consoles catch up to PC in this aspect.

 

[Brofist]

Until direct storage comes out, I'm pretty sure the general consensus is: Better graphics, framerates, IQ, etc >>>>> faster loading. And even when it does release for PC, Better graphics, framerates, IQ, etc >>>>> faster loading.


I'll take 2 seconds longer to load, to have all the benefits listed above. Nothing can be done to make the consoles catch up to PC in this aspect.

Nah loading will always be more important.

Everytime a new game comes out DF and 100 other websites always rush to test and compare load times and I/O speeds first right?

Oh no that's right they don't, they compare resolution, frame rate, lighting etc, cause no one gives two fucks about the game's initial load time.

 

[Loxus]

Until direct storage comes out, I'm pretty sure the general consensus is: Better graphics, framerates, IQ, etc >>>>> faster loading. And even when it does release for PC, Better graphics, framerates, IQ, etc >>>>> faster loading.


I'll take 2 seconds longer to load, to have all the benefits listed above. Nothing can be done to make the consoles catch up to PC in this aspect.

Your missing the whole point of Direct Storage, RTX I/O and the PS5's SSD.

It isn't all about faster load times.
It's about new game designs around faster streaming of data.

Check out this leaked PS5 data streaming.


This is what SSDs currently on the market @7GB/s aren't doing.
To me, this is what we need in next gen games.

And it will take awhile before we see this in games because of development time.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Your missing the whole point of Direct Storage, RTX I/O and the PS5's SSD.

It isn't all about faster load times.
It's about new game designs around faster streaming of data.

Check out this leaked PS5 data streaming.


This is what SSDs currently on the market @7GB/s aren't doing.
To me, this is what we need in next gen games.

And it will take awhile before we see this in games because of development time.

All I see is faster loading though...? Did you mean to send a different video by any chance?

 

[MasterCornholio]

All I see is faster loading though...? Did you mean to send a different video by any chance?

I think that demonstration was for data streaming and not initial load times. I guess it's purpose is to show how that can improve with an SSD over a HDD.

Edit: My mistake the video is actually a combination of initial load times and data streaming.

Edit 2: When it comes to actual usage in games I believe Insomniac explained it best. With Ratchet on the PS4 they would have to load the entire level. With Ratchet on the PS5 they don't have to do that and instead load the data in chunks. So instead of loading the entire level they can just load part of it. Demon Souls developers also said they did this.

Not making a comparison to PC but this is how some developers are using the PS5s I/O.

 

[RoadHazard]

Until direct storage comes out, I'm pretty sure the general consensus is: Better graphics, framerates, IQ, etc >>>>> faster loading. And even when it does release for PC, Better graphics, framerates, IQ, etc >>>>> faster loading.


I'll take 2 seconds longer to load, to have all the benefits listed above. Nothing can be done to make the consoles catch up to PC in this aspect.

That wasn't the question though. The question was what other machine can do what the PS5 can in terms of loading data. Of course there are PCs with more powerful GPUs and CPUs. But if those can't be saturated with data fast enough, what good are they? And no, "with enough RAM you can just load everything you need upfront" is not a good answer. No PC on the market today could run R&C as it is without severe hitching and freezing (loading) at various points. Could it render the game once the needed data is in memory? Of course. But that's not the question.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

I think that demonstration was for data streaming and not initial load times. I guess it's purpose is to show how that can improve with an SSD over a HDD.

Edit: My mistake the video is actually a combination of initial load times and data streaming.

Edit 2: When it comes to actual usage in games I believe Insomniac explained it best. With Ratchet on the PS4 they would have to load the entire level. With Ratchet on the PS5 they don't have to do that and instead load the data in chunks. So instead of loading the entire level they can just load part of it. Demon Souls developers also said they did this.

Not making a comparison to PC but this is how some developers are using the PS5s I/O.

So in other words, more efficient LOADING.

That wasn't the question though. The question was what other machine can do what the PS5 can in terms of loading data. Of course there are PCs with more powerful GPUs and CPUs.

It seems to come down to loading data though. Whether it be streaming (loading data on the fly), or initial load times. The SSD was not a add on GPU like some were led to believe

 

[MasterCornholio]

So in other words, more efficient LOADING.

And better utilization of the systems memory. Which affects what they need to load into it. Going from a HDD to an SSD is a pretty big deal in terms of throughput.

 

[RoadHazard]

So in other words, more efficient LOADING.


It seems to come down to loading data though. Whether it be streaming (loading data on the fly), or initial load times. The SSD was not a add on GPU like some were led to believe

Of course it's about loading data, that's what an SSD does. Nobody in their right mind has ever said claimed it does anything else. But it CAN indirectly lead to better visuals, since being able to load new data on the fly very quickly means you don't have to waste memory on stuff you won't even see until 30 seconds from now (or maybe at all). Instead you can use all available memory for just what you'll need in the next few seconds, and that means your scene can be more detailed and varied. That's impossible if you can't load that data fast enough.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Of course it's about loading data, that's what an SSD does. Nobody in their right mind has ever said claimed it does anything else. But it CAN indirectly lead to better visuals, since being able to load new data on the fly very quickly means you don't have to waste memory on stuff you won't even see until 30 seconds from now (or maybe at all). Instead you can use all available memory for just what you'll need in the next few seconds, and that means your scene can be more detailed and varied. That's impossible if you can't load that data fast enough.

Less assets but higher quality is the way I think of it.

BTW any system with a good I/O can do this.

 

[RoadHazard]

Less assets but higher quality is the way I think of it.

BTW any system with a good I/O can do this.

I don't know about less assets. You can also use it to load MORE assets into the scene, to make it more varied.

Yes, but no current system can do it as efficiently as the PS5, which is the point. A high end PC can do other things better, but not this (for now).

 

[MasterCornholio]

I don't know about less assets. You can also use it to load MORE assets into the scene, to make it more varied.

Yes, but no current system can do it as efficiently as the PS5, which is the point. A high end PC can do other things better, but not this (for now).

I mean that at any given moment since your preparing for the next second of gameplay instead of the next 30 seconds you don't need as many assets. And the space you can could definitely used for more assets or you can increase the quality of the assets that you already have.

 

[RoadHazard]

I mean that at any given moment since your preparing for the next second of gameplay instead of the next 30 seconds you don't need as many assets. And the space you can could definitely used for more assets or you can increase the quality of the assets that you already have.

Yeah, that's true. More assets per unit of space in the level, or higher detail assets, or both.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Yeah, that's true. More assets per unit of space in the level, or higher detail assets, or both.

I guess an example of more assets could be like a Total War game. Basically you wouldn't have to clone so many soldiers since the amount of available memory allows you to have a greater variety of models.

 

[Loxus]

His point was that the Steam survey is a flawed way of looking at it. If you were to do a similar "console survey" PS5 would account for a very low percentage of total consoles out there. Why? Because of course older products which have had a much longer sales cycle have sold a lot more.

Mid and high end GPUs are flying off the shelves and more people than ever are building gaming PCs. That's more relevant than Steam survey.

What is your source for your information about these gpus?

Right now steam is the most relevant source for this kind of information.

If you can share the link to your source, it would be appreciated.

We don't even know how many high end gpus were made to begin with u, let alone the among of high end gaming PCs.

I agree that PC gaming is growing as I too game on PC time to time but saying the vast majority of gaming PCs are performing better than the PS5/XBSX, is just plain misinformation.

Right now, it's PC holding back it's self due to needing to support those low/mid end gaming PCs which is the vast majority of gaming PCs.

 

[Loxus]

All I see is faster loading though...? Did you mean to send a different video by any chance?

Are you really a PC gamer?
Do you design games? cause you seem kind of unknowledgeable.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Are you really a PC gamer?
Do you design games? cause you seem kind of unknowledgeable.

Go ahead and explain. Cause there's nothing revolutionary being done at the moment. Right now, we are getting faster loading. With a better CPU and GPU, games will naturally look better compared to last gen consoles. But go ahead and explain yourself or where I'm wrong, would love to see how you'll spin this.

 

[Loxus]

Go ahead and explain. Cause there's nothing revolutionary being done at the moment. Right now, we are getting faster loading. With a better CPU and GPU, games will naturally look better compared to last gen consoles. But go ahead and explain yourself or where I'm wrong, would love to see how you'll spin this.

So is your PCs doing that, post a video let us all see.
Talk is cheap.

 

[KyoZz]

While you scrolling, take a break from the fighting and enjoy some meme:

 

[Kenpachii]

If we’re moving towards a time when the long initial loads even with SSD are gone (GTA5, etc) and games aren’t designed with allowances for lower level hardware, that’s two different improvements I’m all for. One’s more subtle than the other, but I welcome both

If along the way we get even less overhead on the PC side, even better.

Take Skyrim for example. It was massively limited to work on consoles, and you had entire cities blocked off behind loading screens. That big, noticeable thing is no longer a issue because consoles aren’t so limited in spec any more, but there’s also interior spaces that may well have been put behind loading screens because the speed limitations. If we can get to a point where even they go because of the extra speed these improvements bring, then game design gets extra legroom to make seamless worlds.

Can a PC do what R&C does (the portal stuff) at the same speed? I don’t know if that can be done quite so quickly because of the overheads.

The problem is people are comparing games that are not designed for the platform to start with, they are just simple ports. Which confuses most people posting in this topic.

They see FF14 = console mmo = load load load load load load load every 10 seconds when u walk through the world. It loads when u enter every building etc etc etc.

Then come to conclusions like:

Oh look 10 seconds loading on PC
Oh look 60 seconds loading on PS4
Oh look 2 seconds loading on PS5.

PC is far behind. Needs Directstorage lol.

While in the meanwhile if you look at PC mmo's like wow/bdo there is no such issue, its straight up no loading time whats o ever. and the few that exist are all server connection related.

Load times haven't been a problem for PC for a while now. What is far more a problem and can't be solved is connections wait delays.

What holds PC back is the constant being limited around console design choices. The whole reason we are pushing into directstorage and SSD decompressions at high speeds 5 years late is because consoles push it, PC already has it for ages the hardware, yet nothing gets coded or made for it. Why? nobody cares because all the games are PS4 limited. The same goes for engines. Why is it that it took so long for sweeney to make EU5 happen? why not worked on it when SSD's came out on PC? yea there you go.

R&C is designed for PS5 weaknesses and strenghts. If R&C was builded from teh ground up for PC, it will be designed for the strengths of PC.

What is your source for your information about these gpus?

Right now steam is the most relevant source for this kind of information.

If you can share the link to your source, it would be appreciated.

We don't even know how many high end gpus were made to begin with u, let alone the among of high end gaming PCs.

I agree that PC gaming is growing as I too game on PC time to time but saying the vast majority of gaming PCs are performing better than the PS5/XBSX, is just plain misinformation.

Right now, it's PC holding back it's self due to needing to support those low/mid end gaming PCs which is the vast majority of gaming PCs.

There is no holding back on PC mate. If a game requires more hardware it will require more hardware and minimums go up. Devs know fully well that not 1 billion people are going to buy there game, they focus on the target they wanna focus on.

If you look at past generation shifts from consoles, u could see this easily how little to nothing devs give about minimums or averages on what PC gamers have. its all about consoles.

I guess an example of more assets could be like a Total War game. Basically you wouldn't have to clone so many soldiers since the amount of available memory allows you to have a greater variety of models.

Or you know they just demand a bit more memory. That's the thing with PC its flexible its not limited by anything.

 

[Iced Arcade]

Confusing thread sprinkled with golden showers

 

[Loxus]

The problem is people are comparing games that are not designed for the platform to start with, they are just simple ports. Which confuses most people posting in this topic.

They see FF14 = console mmo = load load load load load load load every 10 seconds when u walk through the world. It loads when u enter every building etc etc etc.

Then come to conclusions like:

Oh look 10 seconds loading on PC
Oh look 60 seconds loading on PS4
Oh look 2 seconds loading on PS5.

PC is far behind. Needs Directstorage lol.

While in the meanwhile if you look at PC mmo's like wow/bdo there is no such issue, its straight up no loading time whats o ever. and the few that exist are all server connection related.

Load times haven't been a problem for PC for a while now. What is far more a problem and can't be solved is connections wait delays.

What holds PC back is the constant being limited around console design choices. The whole reason we are pushing into directstorage and SSD decompressions at high speeds 5 years late is because consoles push it, PC already has it for ages the hardware, yet nothing gets coded or made for it. Why? nobody cares because all the games are PS4 limited. The same goes for engines. Why is it that it took so long for sweeney to make EU5 happen? why not worked on it when SSD's came out on PC? yea there you go.

R&C is designed for PS5 weaknesses and strenghts. If R&C was builded from teh ground up for PC, it will be designed for the strengths of PC.





There is no holding back on PC mate. If a game requires more hardware it will require more hardware and minimums go up. Devs know fully well that not 1 billion people are going to buy there game, they focus on the target they wanna focus on.

If you look at past generation shifts from consoles, u could see this easily how little to nothing devs give about minimums or averages on what PC gamers have. its all about consoles.


Or you know they just demand a bit more memory. That's the thing with PC its flexible its not limited by anything.

So why do PC games have low settings?

 

[01011001]

this made me giggle not gonna lie

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

So is your PCs doing that, post a video let us all see.
Talk is cheap.

Doing what? What do you keep moving the goal posts. Where am I wrong?

 

[Kenpachii]

So why do PC games have low settings?

Depends on what games you are talking about.

If its a console port, its because that's where its designed for and everything above it is just extra settings for better quality for people that have the hardware.
If its a PC game, its the market they aim for, or there game simple doesn't require much. Yet offer options to push visuals forwards. Metro for example is good at this.

 

[Brofist]

What is your source for your information about these gpus?

Right now steam is the most relevant source for this kind of information.

If you can share the link to your source, it would be appreciated.

The reason Steam survey isn't a good indicator is because there are games on Steam older than the PS1. A low spec PC is good enough to run the majority of the Steam library. Also there are thousands of video cards that are in that survey, it would be impossible for any of them to represent a high percentage of that survey.

My source? You literally can not buy a new GPU right now without paying exorbitant prices. I don't need numbers to know that the demand is exceeding the supply by a lot.

I agree that PC gaming is growing as I too game on PC time to time but saying the vast majority of gaming PCs are performing better than the PS5/XBSX, is just plain misinformation.

I didn't say anything about the majority of PCs being more powerful than the new consoles. That is obviously not the case. It doesn't have to be the case though. If there is a growing market for those type of PCs that's all that matters.

And the market is growing. The fact that Sony themselves are releasing PC games at all means it is. They didn't do that for 4 previous generations of PS consoles why would they start now. Companies don't enter a market without good indication that there is growth there. Remember at one point MS themselves had to be dragged kicking into releasing games for PC.

Right now, it's PC holding back it's self due to needing to support those low/mid end gaming PCs which is the vast majority of gaming PCs.

Something, something cross gen releases. The irony here is everything you have just implied about PC gaming is true of modern console gaming.

Let's be realistic here. Owning a PS4 or XBO is the equivalent of owning a PC with a GTX 1060. Sony and MS see that, and see the numbers of those consoles out there. So you are getting cross gen games now.

No hardware is holding anything back. The only thing holding anything back is companies desire to maximize profits.

So why do PC games have low settings?

The answer is multiple tiered. Some people just make the minimum requirements to run a game. Some want to run their game at 200fps+ and are willing to sacrifice. That the great part, the flexibility to run it how ever you want.

This feels way off topic. I think Direct Storage and other iterations will be a net positive for PC and console gaming. That's all that matters.

 

[Loxus]

Doing what? What do you keep moving the goal posts. Where am I wrong?

What the PS5 is doing.
If PCs can do it, show us.

 

[Kenpachii]

this made me giggle not gonna lie

Always amazes me how much of a disco ball some pc users want there box to become.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

What the PS5 is doing.
If PCs can do it, show us.

I didn't say that ...??? I simply said, I'll take better graphics, higher image quality, much higher framerates, better raytracing, etc over better loading, which direct storage will eventually solve.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Always amazes me how much of a disco ball some pc users want there box to become.

 

[theclaw135]

So why do PC games have low settings?

People will cry the game is a "bad, unoptimized console port" if it's sluggish on their toaster.

 

[Loxus]

The reason Steam survey isn't a good indicator is because there are games on Steam older than the PS1. A low spec PC is good enough to run the majority of the Steam library. Also there are thousands of video cards that are in that survey, it would be impossible for any of them to represent a high percentage of that survey.

My source? You literally can not buy a new GPU right now without paying exorbitant prices. I don't need numbers to know that the demand is exceeding the supply by a lot.



I didn't say anything about the majority of PCs being more powerful than the new consoles. That is obviously not the case. It doesn't have to be the case though. If there is a growing market for those type of PCs that's all that matters.

And the market is growing. The fact that Sony themselves are releasing PC games at all means it is. They didn't do that for 4 previous generations of PS consoles why would they start now. Companies don't enter a market without good indication that there is growth there. Remember at one point MS themselves had to be dragged kicking into releasing games for PC.


Something, something cross gen releases. The irony here is everything you have just implied about PC gaming is true of modern console gaming.

Let's be realistic here. Owning a PS4 or XBO is the equivalent of owning a PC with a GTX 1060. Sony and MS see that, and see the numbers of those consoles out there. So you are getting cross gen games now.

No hardware is holding anything back. The only thing holding anything back is companies desire to maximize profits.


The answer is multiple tiered. Some people just make the minimum requirements to run a game. Some want to run their game at 200fps+ and are willing to sacrifice. That the great part, the flexibility to run it how ever you want.

This feels way off topic. I think Direct Storage and other iterations will be a net positive for PC and console gaming. That's all that matters.

All it's doing is showing how many low, mid and high end PC out there.
And there are alot of people rocking a 1060 compared to a 3090, so not much high PCs out there.

And that's your reason for low settings?
More people playing on low end PCs so developers gonna make there games to run on them.

Exactly, that's why low end PCs will hold back PC gaming. Not PS5/XBSX.

Eventually, cross-gen will end but not low end gpu support. High end GPU prices are overpriced at the moment.

 

[Brofist]

People will cry the game is a "bad, unoptimized console port" if it's sluggish on their toaster.

Until last gen most console games basically ran at low - mid PC settings.

PC gamers that cry "bad, unoptimized console port" are usually upset that they can't run ultra settings smoothly.

All it's doing is showing how many low, mid and high end PC out there.
And there are alot of people rocking a 1060 compared to a 3090, so not much high PCs out there.

And that's your reason for low settings?
More people playing on low end PCs so developers gonna make there games to run on them.

Exactly, that's why low end PCs will hold back PC gaming. Not PS5/XBSX.

Eventually, cross-gen will end but not low end gpu support. High end GPU prices are overpriced at the moment.

Like I said they are there to give an option to those with lower hardware. You must have the wrong person anyway, cause I don't recall ever saying that PS5/XBSX are holding anything back.

BTW minimum specs for games increase all the time. They don't stay stagnant. look at the minimum specs from a game 4 years ago and today. Big difference.

 

[Loxus]

Depends on what games you are talking about.

If its a console port, its because that's where its designed for and everything above it is just extra settings for better quality for people that have the hardware.
If its a PC game, its the market they aim for, or there game simple doesn't require much. Yet offer options to push visuals forwards. Metro for example is good at this.

I agree with you 100%
I'm not talking about you but some PC gamers have this agenda that console are holding back PC games but I'm not seeing it.

But to me, pushing pc gaming forward it would be better to move pass better texture and add more ai characters in the game world.

E.g. more crowded cities with unique ai.
PC may have the better looking games but I expected more than just looking better.

 

[Kazekage1981]

In simplistic noob terms, the SSD with Directstorage API and I/O bottleneck removal's benefits are:

-drastically reduces load time to near 'cartridge levels'

The Directstorage API and I/O bottleneck removal along with SFS contributes to Hi-Fidelity graphics by feeding large chunks of graphics data directly to the RAM. Hence Texture streaming?

So my question is, Sega Saturn, Playstation 1 did NOT have SSDs. The CD-ROM fed data directly to its system RAM without a HDD, SSD. If it were to have a NVMe SSD with I/O bottleneck removal, would it have better graphics besides near instantaneous loading times? I am still failing to understand how SSD contributes to hi-fidelity graphics since there is no 'processing' involved from a storage unit.

I am a dumbass