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[Chukhopops]

Jesus Christ the jumping at conclusions is insane whenever the news is about MS. Avellone has been bitching about Obsidian management for the last two years at least:

“I wouldn’t work with senior management” at Obsidian ever again, says Chris Avellone

Chris Avellone, co-founder and creative director at Obsidian, split from the company in 2015 and has been vocally critical of the executives ever since.

www.vg247.com

I know everyone is in grave concern mode but this is just a former founder bitching about the people who ousted him long before MS was even involved (2018).

 

[IDKFA]

Not a good sign.

I have high hopes for that game. We need more FP fantasy RPS and it's also gotta to be out before ESVI.

 

[Derktron]

Seems like Microsoft can't get anything right

 

[Jaysen]

Expected, in the sense I believe many of the private studios that sold themselves to MS were doing it purely for the cash.

I can’t tell if this post is willfully stupid or just willfully dense about how business works.

 

[Black_Stride]

Seems like Microsoft can't get anything right

But this isnt Microsofts doing.
MS hasnt interfered with Obsidian.
With or without MS money we would be at this exact spot.
Its Obsidian being Obsidian especially considering Chris really hates Obsidian management it makes sense he would be bitching about them.

 

[oagboghi2]

Who were the leads? Surely we could scour their LinkedIn profiles and Twitter Accounts to see where they went. This wreaks of BS and only 1 person is talking about it.

Sounds like a man with Integrity - Chris Avellone - Wikipedia

He may hold some grudges considering his past.

And this is why fake rape accusations should be a crime.

But this isnt Microsofts doing.
MS hasnt interfered with Obsidian.
With or without MS money we would be at this exact spot.
Its Obsidian being Obsidian especially considering Chris really hates Obsidian management it makes sense he would be bitching about them.

We don’t know is MS is involved or not. Why are you in such a rush to absolve them, and blame Obsidian.

 

[Punished Miku]

Seems like Microsoft can't get anything right

Their hardware and services teams are killing it. Playground Games is killing it. The Coalition is pretty solid. Double Fine just put out a killer game. Mojang seems fine. Rare is doing decently will Sea of Thieves. World's Edge doing okay with Age of Empires. Arkane seems to be pumping out games.

Xbox Game Studios - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Shit happens. It's not all bad though.

 

[CartoonsNCereal]

Elder Scrolls is a much bigger brand so I wouldn’t be shocked to hear Microsoft is moving anyone with RPG/Open World experience over to get it out sooner.

But its weird how many straight competitors to bethesda open world games have weird shit end up happening. Bethesda needs a direct competitor to elder scrolls bad lol

 

[Black_Stride]

And this is why fake rape accusations should be a crime.



We don’t know is MS is involved or not. Why are you in such a rush to absolve them, and blame Obsidian.

Because, MS themselves said they were going to let the studios run themselves just with bigger back pockets.
We have no evidence that they have meddled with Obsidian so making the claim is a logical fallacy.


P.S Agreed fake rape accusations are super fucked up.
Pretty sure making a false statement is a crime, but otherwise the best case is to make a civil case....dont want someone getting probation or some shit for trying to fuck up your life.....take them for everything they got.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Oh boy. Maybe read this thread
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/chris-avellone-is-fighting-back-update-6-26-21.1549758/

I don't know, out of the hundreds of thousands of people that work in the gaming industry, why does it seem like only the most narcissistic ones get the most heat for sexual harassment or more? I'm not saying I believe the allegations, but usually if you can see the smoke on the horizon, it's certainly not leading you to a pot of gold. For his own defendants to turn on him would mean he's a bit of a piece of shit to begin with.

 

[nowhat]

We could have got a great game if Avowed was left alone

 

[Nickolaidas]

But ... queens and kings.

 

[oagboghi2]

Because, MS themselves said they were going to let the studios run themselves just with bigger back pockets.
We have no evidence that they have meddled with Obsidian so making the claim is a logical fallacy.


P.S Agreed fake rape accusations are super fucked up.
Pretty sure making a false statement is a crime, but otherwise the best case is to make a civil case....dont want someone getting probation or some shit for trying to fuck up your life.....take them for everything they got.

Uhh no that’s not how it works. That is just PR spin.

I don’t care what MS said, no studio just goes and work in total autonomy if they are fully owned by someone else. If lead devs, designers and engineers are leaving, then MS has to know about it.

I don't know, out of the hundreds of thousands of people that work in the gaming industry, why does it seem like only the most narcissistic ones get the most heat for sexual harassment or more? I'm not saying I believe the allegations, but usually if you can see the smoke on the horizon, it's certainly not leading you to a pot of gold. For his own defendants to turn on him would mean he's a bit of a piece of shit to begin with.

You’re really reaching here. Did you actually read the thread?

 

[fermcr]

Obsidian are a good developer. Hope they deliver AAA games in the future... but if these rumors are true, it's not a good sign.

 

[Black_Stride]

Uhh no that’s not how it works. That is just PR spin.

I don’t care what MS said, no studio just goes and work in total autonomy if they are fully owned by someone else. If lead devs, designers and engineers are leaving, then MS has to know about it.

I guess we will find out in 2025 when the game comes out.

P.S Ninja Theory seems to running themselves just fine only they dont need to beg for money.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Obsidian are a good developer. Hope they deliver AAA games in the future... but if these rumors are true, it's not a good sign.

Yeah, in terms of quality and creativity, I actually put them above Bethesda. Not many would agree with me, but that's how I see them.

I think Obsidian was the best get for Xbox in terms of talent.

 

[Hendrick's]

Not concerned at all. This guy has an obvious beef with the company.

 

[Irobot82]

I don't know, out of the hundreds of thousands of people that work in the gaming industry, why does it seem like only the most narcissistic ones get the most heat for sexual harassment or more? I'm not saying I believe the allegations, but usually if you can see the smoke on the horizon, it's certainly not leading you to a pot of gold. For his own defendants to turn on him would mean he's a bit of a piece of shit to begin with.

Or

Maybe

They are clout chasers jumping on a bandwagon for woke points/sympathy points and all the attention they could ever desire.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I guess we will find out in 2025 when the game comes out.

P.S Ninja Theory seems to running themselves just fine only they dont need to beg for money.

Tbh, Ninja Theory has disappointed me the most since the acquisition.

They released Hellblade on August 8, 2017. Xbox acquired them in June 2018. Phil revealed Hellblade 2 in December 2019. In June 2021, Ninja Theory said that Hellblade 2 has yet to enter "full production".

What were they doing between August 2017 and June 2021? Only scouting locations and having their animators train in martial arts? That's a period of 4 years. That's enough for a AAA game to be developed from scratch, and they still haven't entered full production yet.

The game will take at least 2-3 years to develop from today, so we're looking at a 2024 release, at the earliest. It was my most anticipated XGS game, and it's super disappointing to see this timeline.

 

[THEAP99]

Christ. Starting to feel like a lot of these microsoft games/acquisitions were sold on promises/hope

 

[Heisenberg007]

Found this comment on Reddit. Haven't verified its credibility though.

I can't find anything on the art lead, lead designer or director. No vacancies, postings, leaves, any of that.

He is correct about the lead area designer. He left for High Moon to work on CoD Warzone.

He is also correct about the narrative designer leaving. He left for Toque Games back in his home of Montreal where he worked for years with Ubisoft.

They are hiring for an area designer. The new lead narrative designer is Kate Dollarhyde who worked on Pillars 2, the DLC, Outer Worlds and co-lead the story of Peril on Gorgon.

If true, it seems to corroborate what Chris is saying.

 

[Concern]

Hmm, not sure what that means - like they are moving onto better positions, worse positions, just quitting? Seems a little vague, hope it's not in trouble though because it looked like it was going to be decent. Few reddit posts seem to have this theme as well:

Not much, just the daily Microsoft concern thread from the usual fanboys.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Losing leads won’t cause a game to suffer but it can delay it.

 

[elliot5]

Found this comment on Reddit. Haven't verified its credibility though.



If true, it seems to corroborate what Chris is saying.

that doesn't sound as disasterous as the concern-o-meter here would make it seem.. people leave for whatever reasons. Doesn't seem like the project is going poorly.

 

[Calverz]

It could be the next halo and launch broken years from now.

Wow you are from the future. What will December the 8th 2021 be like?

 

[Gameplaylover]

Not much, just the daily Microsoft concern thread from the usual fanboys.

Don't call them fanboys. They are honestly concerned gamers. I swear.

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

Obsidians management didnt change?
And thats what Chris is bitching about right now.



The whole thing with MSs new purchase strategy is basically continue doing what you were doing.
With or without MS money assuming what Chris is saying is true.....this was the outcome.

What I am saying is that management most of the time changes after purchase. They will remove people, the company I work with (not my bad indie "game company"), got purchased, and even if not all the people will change, some higher management people will, which makes feel everyone down and fear for the future. This change could be good as it could be bad.

Regarding your second point, is that things change when team members change, new vision, new ideas (more when it is the higher-ups), which will affect development in general and make everyone working feel down if things are not handled properly. I am speaking in a wider way, than this game company situation.

 

[lh032]

 

[Hobbygaming]

Sony had a whole VR studio do nothing for 5 years, and then get closed - allegedly. Naughty Dog may just have competent management within their own studio. From most interviews, they say repeatedly that Sony is as hands off as possible.

Nintendo is really the only one that we know for sure literally gets involved in each individual project, embeds a producer from their own staff on each game if its made by an outside studio, and regularly reviews the game and offers criticism and suggestions. The Luigi's Mansion 2 Iwata Asks is a good example of that. Cancelling Metroid Prime 4 and starting over is another example.

Idk about MS but I know Sony has people that go out to visit studios and check the progress of their games

Shu was the guy last generation to give feedback, this generation it's Hermen Hulst as the head of their studios

 

[IntentionalPun]

Don't care.

Make game.

Game good?

I play game.

Game not good?

I don't play game.

Gossip is for biatches.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Sony had a whole VR studio do nothing for 5 years, and then get closed - allegedly. Naughty Dog may just have competent management within their own studio. From most interviews, they say repeatedly that Sony is as hands off as possible.

Nintendo is really the only one that we know for sure literally gets involved in each individual project, embeds a producer from their own staff on each game if its made by an outside studio, and regularly reviews the game and offers criticism and suggestions. The Luigi's Mansion 2 Iwata Asks is a good example of that. Cancelling Metroid Prime 4 and starting over is another example.

The last interview by Deviation Games talked about Sony's review process and constant feedback loop that helps the devs.

 

[Heart_Attack]

Grounded is a tech demo and zoomers are really into that shit.

 

[mckmas8808]

Expected, in the sense I believe many of the private studios that sold themselves to MS were doing it purely for the cash.

Agreed. We'll need to come back to this game about 1 year from now.

 

[Magnific0giganticus]

Well we haven't heard cinch for over a year about it....maybe it will happen like with Elden Ring! /s

 

[tsumake]

People cheerlead all these “mergers” because of perceived convenience and the idea that the Big Guy will reign in the Small Guy and make a good product. Just look at Disney and Star Wars.

 

[IntentionalPun]

People cheerlead all these “mergers” because of perceived convenience and the idea that the Big Guy will reign in the Small Guy and make a good product. Just look at Disney and Star Wars.

MS's studio purchases have not been "mergers."

 

[Punished Miku]

People cheerlead all these “mergers” because of perceived convenience and the idea that the Big Guy will reign in the Small Guy and make a good product. Just look at Disney and Star Wars.

Obsidian has always had issues. I think the only main difference really is that they have funding now.

Still remains to be seen if they put out something. I'm sure they will be fine. Even with serious issues on nearly every project dating back to KOTOR II and Fallout NV, they tend to pull it together and get the games out. Outer Worlds just came out not that long ago on limited budget. Grounded as well.

 

[RoboFu]

Some of seem like you want the game to be bad.. whys that??

 

[Flutta]

Christ. Starting to feel like a lot of these microsoft games/acquisitions were sold on promises/Hope

This reminds me of what Jim Ryan said.

'Nurturing Creative Talent is Not as Simple as Throwing Money at it'​

He has point.

 

[michaelius]

Even though there is no definitive proof yet the game is undergoing serious management issues, is it really that hard to believe that maybe MS is just awful at managing studios? Halo Infinite and 343i are pretty perfect examples for this, they've continually fucked up big time and MS still refuses to completely restructure them.
If you ask me, from what we've seen with studios like Rare and Obsidian, it seems that the problem with MS is not that they are being too overly controlling, its that they aren't putting any control over the studios at all, and as a result there's a complete lack of direction whatsoever. Studios are allowed to make whatever the hell they want (which is not a bad thing mind you), but it genuinely feels like Microsoft has no quality control involved, like they really don't care if the game is in shit shape or not. Its a completely different environment compared to Nintendo and Sony, where you do feel like they genuinely care about the quality and production efficiency of their games.

Also before anyone starts shouting "fanboy/hater" or whatever the fuck, I own a Series X and GamePass. MS is amazing on a service front, but I still firmly stand by that their first party work has been largely forgettable or shit since 2010. Flight Simulator and Forza are pretty much the only two franchises that really deliver on the quality front, Gears 5 was close but imo the gameplay was extremely stale.

Forget 343 - Microsoft can't even launch their flagship operating systems without problems. And that's before we go into disasters like whole Windows Mobile failure.

 

[Captain Toad]

I remember when God of War was "in development hell" and a "troubled project". Then it came out and was one of the highest acclaimed games in the last decade.

So, let's just see.

 

[El Pistolero]

Hopefully they lost the guy that decided it was a first person game.

Wait, is it though? I thought that that was inExile project, no?

 

[anthraticus]

I had a bad feeling about Obsidian after Chris left. Thankfully there's other options for cRPG fans. And Bethesda I haven't given a shit about since Morrowind.

 

[Punished Miku]

Wait, is it though? I thought that that was inExile project, no?

inExile project is listed as 1st and 3rd.

Avowed is listed as 1st. I'm just saying I wish it was 3rd, but it's not.

 

[RiccochetJ]

Wait, is it though? I thought that that was inExile project, no?

The only thing we've seen from Avowed was at the end of the teaser and it was in first person and later some other listings about the game.

 

[Derktron]

But this isnt Microsofts doing.
MS hasnt interfered with Obsidian.
With or without MS money we would be at this exact spot.
Its Obsidian being Obsidian especially considering Chris really hates Obsidian management it makes sense he would be bitching about them.

Seems like Microsoft should step in and put their foot down and do something then. Seems like Upper management needs to help out

 

[tsumake]

Obsidian has always had issues. I think the only main difference really is that they have funding now.

Still remains to be seen if they put out something. I'm sure they will be fine. Even with serious issues on nearly every project dating back to KOTOR II and Fallout NV, they tend to pull it together and get the games out. Outer Worlds just came out not that long ago on limited budget. Grounded as well.

Oh, I’m very sure they’ll put out something.

 

[Jigsaah]

Yea if anybody thought these acquisitions were going to go off without a hitch...I mean that's just naive.

There was bound to be some shuffling of the cards. That's how companies grow and adjust. I am concerned about the leads that left on their own though and their reasons.

I'm saying all this assuming the rumor is true. I don't see why Chris would need to lie.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Normally I'd be worried but Avellone has had beef with Obsidian and isn't this all conjecture of publicly available knowledge?

 

[Clear]

Yea if anybody thought these acquisitions were going to go off without a hitch...I mean that's just naive.

There was bound to be some shuffling of the cards. That's how companies grow and adjust. I am concerned about the leads that left on their own though and their reasons.

I'm saying all this assuming the rumor is true. I don't see why Chris would need to lie.

Its not just that, they have expanded their portfolio massively with these acquisitions to a point way beyond what they ever had in the past. This means they'll also have had to expand the MGS management and infrastructure and that sort of growth is rarely smooth sailing in practice.

Its a big ask for any corporation in existence to pull this off without a hitch, failures should be expected. The only question is how many and how severe they will turn out to be.