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[Fredrik]

Yes well known for a while.

You only need to focus to make them clear, but you can climb almost everything without using focus before hand from the past news we had.

Ah okay. I just went back to the gameplay trailer and it’s seen there, a yelllow cross pops up where the grapple goes. Same as climbable ledges. Hadn’t noticed that before. Should’ve done it like Halo instead but oh well nothing is perfect.

 

[GymWolf]

Ah okay. I just went back to the gameplay trailer and it’s seen there, a yelllow cross pops up where the grapple goes. Same as climbable ledges. Hadn’t noticed that before. Should’ve done it like Halo instead but oh well nothing is perfect.

I think that we have to wait to play the game to see how much they can replicate the feel of "free climbing" with fixed spots sparse everywhere.

Maybe they are so fucking many that not being able to pinpoint where the grapple goes is not gonna be much of a problem, the game seems very frenetic and with a lot of aerial traversal during combat between hook and glider so maybe they tuned up shit to perfection, like they privileged being able of doing aerial shit on the fly for practical\spectacle reasons without need for precision aiming at the cost of some player freedom, imagine the difference between spiderman 2 web slinging and insomniac spiderman web slinging, both have plus and malus.


If i remember well, they used the tech on the engine to create the climb spots, like the engine automatically generate small holes and shit in walls etc. So they don't have to put them manually but they are still a fuckton everywhere anyway.

 

[remember_spinal]

I think that we have to wait to play the game to see how much they can replicate the feel of "free climbing" with fixed spots sparse everywhere.

Maybe they are so fucking many that not being able to pinpoint where the grapple goes is not gonna be much of a problem, the game seems very frenetic and with a lot of aerial traversal during combat between hook and glider so maybe they tuned up shit to perfection, like they privileged being able of doing aerial shit on the fly for practical\spectacle reasons without aiming at the cost of some player freedom, imagine the difference between spiderman 2 web slinging and insomniac spiderman web slinging, both have plus and malus.


If i remember well, they used the tech on the engine to create the climb spots, like the engine generate small holes and shit in walls etc. So they don't have to put them manually but they are still a fuckton everywhere anyway.

Them using the scanning to highlight the climbable formations in the gameplay demos was kind of dumb. It makes it look similar to the old system and I don’t think its gonna play that way at all where you’re constantly scanning things to see if they’re climbable or graspable. I think there is gonna be a very easy tell as to whether or not something is scalable or you can grapple onto it.

Like in on one f the gameplay clips when aloy uses the bomb, she jumps off the enemy, shoots him and transitions into a grappling hook to the platform. I think that is gonna be more common where you just know whats reaslstically possible.

In other words, its not gonna be like BoTW where link is basically Spider-man and can shimmy himself up a stone pillar. It’s gonna be a situation where there are texture that look different than others that just read “climb”

 

[GymWolf]

Them using the scanning to highlight the climbable formations in the gameplay demos was kind of dumb. It makes it look similar to the old system and I don’t think its gonna play that way at all where you’re constantly scanning things to see if they’re climbable or graspable. I think there is gonna be a very easy tell as to whether or not something is scalable or you can grapple onto it.

Like in on one f the gameplay clips when aloy uses the bomb, she jumps off the enemy, shoots him and transitions into a grappling hook to the platform. I think that is gonna be more common where you just know whats reaslstically possible.

In other words, its not gonna be like BoTW where link is basically Spider-man and can shimmy himself up a stone pillar. It’s gonna be a situation where there are texture that look different than others that just read “climb”

Yes absolutely, although i don't think that they are gonna be super visible all the times, or it could look ugly and un-realistic in some places.

And during combat you can just probably hit the grapple hook button to easily escape a bad situation in an area with a lot of climbable spots like we saw in one of the trailer, not sure if i like this because enemies need to be able to keep up with aloy new mobility and i don't want the game to be too easy, i'm playing jc4 during these days and every time i'm about to die, i just grapple hook my ass out of there, i never died in like 5 hours...

I think that they showed the focus thing to highlight stuff to demonstrate that every area is now climbable without ugly yellow painted points, in the previous game you didn't need to use focus because the climb spots were clear as sun and usually outside of combat areas.

 

[CitizenZ]

That OP picture reminds me of that camera shot in Anthem when they go through the market. .

 

[Fredrik]

I think that we have to wait to play the game to see how much they can replicate the feel of "free climbing" with fixed spots sparse everywhere.

Maybe they are so fucking many that not being able to pinpoint where the grapple goes is not gonna be much of a problem, the game seems very frenetic and with a lot of aerial traversal during combat between hook and glider so maybe they tuned up shit to perfection, like they privileged being able of doing aerial shit on the fly for practical\spectacle reasons without need for precision aiming at the cost of some player freedom, imagine the difference between spiderman 2 web slinging and insomniac spiderman web slinging, both have plus and malus.


If i remember well, they used the tech on the engine to create the climb spots, like the engine automatically generate small holes and shit in walls etc. So they don't have to put them manually but they are still a fuckton everywhere anyway.

Yeah it might work fine. In the trailer there is only one grapple cross shown on screen at once though but there are a ton of climbing spots shown on a pillar, maybe those can be used for the grapple as well.

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah it might work fine. In the trailer there is only one grapple cross shown on screen at once though but there are a ton of climbing spots shown on a pillar, maybe those can be used for the grapple as well.

They said free climbing, i think that at least for climb spots (where aloy physically need to put her hands to climb)they are gonna be basically in any inclined surface, grapple points are gonna be more rare, like in combat arenas or big towers where only climbing would be too slow etc.

But maybe i'm wrong and you can use the grapple in every climb spot, not sure if it could look silly seeing aloy grappling inside a city...

 

[remember_spinal]

 

[EverydayBeast]

I got to play the original before I play this.

 

[GymWolf]

Yep, you don't even need to aim for the grapple hook, if there is a grappling point, aloy is gonna use it while in the air.

 

[remember_spinal]

Yep, you don't even need to aim for the grapple hook, if there is a grappling point, aloy is gonna use it while in the air.

I assume THAT will feel more like spider-man than the climbing

 

[GymWolf]

I assume THAT will feel more like spider-man than the climbing

I think it's gonna feel more like batman arkham series grapple hook feeling.

 

[Arachnid]

Meh. Improve the story and dialogue, and then I'll be onboard.

 

[TheTony316]

"Guerrilla wants settlements to feel “more lived in” and exciting to explore. This means townspeople will be more active, and you’ll experience fun little moments throughout their day. “We’ve upgraded our civilians and settlements since the last game with an improved crowd system, better animations, and much better audio,” McCaw says. “So everything should feel a little bit more authentic and lifelike.”

Good to hear. Horizon's settlements felt more like basic MMO hubs rather than actual living places.

 

[GymWolf]

Except for rdr2, gta5, skyrim\fallout and maybe wd series where you can interact and start chain reactions with npcs, i never understood how cities\camps in horizon were worse than cities and camps in many other open world games like botw, days gone, witcher 3, spiderman or any other open world with "fake" npcs.


You still had npcs moving around, doing stuff, talking etc in horizon.

To me the cities improvements are gonna be the hardest to notice except number of npcs on screen and fidelity, unless they made them more interactive, but i doutb it.

 

[SlimySnake]

Thank god for the last one, trying to find that fucking fox skin for the fast travel pack was an exercise in frustration, especially with the drop rate. Looking forward to the better skill tree as well.

I never thought the hud was cluttered in the first tbh. There were some text based items that could be disabled (the loot updates and quest summary), and maybe a narrowing of the health/pouch bars too. I guess they mean the little icons on the floor when something died, but they aren't any different to the glows in Odyssey for example. Plus some of the HUD elements are meant to be augmented by the focus.

I honestly think it was just a psychedelic and inconsistent colour scheme of the HUD making it look worse

I turned off the hud right away. Way too much information. Especially the mission marker. Number 6 on the picture. I made the health and items dynamic and turned off everything else. It made the game look 10x better.

 

[GymWolf]

Sliding a finger to make ui appear must be the only useful use of the touchpad that ever existed...

 

[SlimySnake]

Ah okay. I just went back to the gameplay trailer and it’s seen there, a yelllow cross pops up where the grapple goes. Same as climbable ledges. Hadn’t noticed that before. Should’ve done it like Halo instead but oh well nothing is perfect.

Travel through the Forbidden West​

In the gameplay trailer, you’ll have seen Aloy using a variety of new tools in the Forbidden West. “Building upon the foundation of Horizon Zero Dawn, we have added a number of new ways to move through the world,” says David McMullen, Lead Systems Designer at Guerrilla. “Aloy can climb freely on and across huge sections of rocky terrain; even more machine types can be used as mounts; grapple points can be found throughout the environment which allows agile vertical traversal; swimming underwater has opened up a whole new aspect of exploration; and gliding with the Shieldwing provides the ultimate view of the beautiful world of Horizon Forbidden West – not to mention a quick way down from great heights!”

The free climbing system in Horizon Forbidden West is a huge feature we are extremely excited about, as it has allowed us to make large sections of the terrain climbable (where it makes sense visually and narratively) in a way not previously possible in Horizon Zero Dawn. Rocky surfaces in these areas are freely climbable without the use of tribal handholds!
Another addition was the high vault traversal mechanic, which essentially allows Aloy to hoist herself on top of any object of jumpable height with room to pull up. Combined with the ability to free climb and adding grapples to our environment, the potential for exploration is greatly increased.

 

[GymWolf]

I don't know why in the fuck i can't quote slimy but you people can forget seeing aloy climbing in any house inside villages etc. ala botw, that bit "where it makes sense visually and narratively" is pretty self explanatory.

Hopefully 90% of outside villages is gonna be climbable.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Before Horizon they didn’t have professional writing staff in the studio. It was always outsourced.

Horizon’s story was great by the way. My favourite open world story by a long shot.

If you enjoyed it, I would highly suggest you go play Witcher 3, Red Dead Redemption 2, Ghost of Tsushima, hell even Fallout 4 among many others. They are infinitely superior in narrative design.

I remember it.... It being garbage was the issue.

Yep.

Lol horizon had one of the best scifi plot of the past gen.

Really? Over NieR Automata? DOOM 2016? Doom Eternal? Titanfall 2? XCom 2? Wolfenstein The New Order? Steins;Gate 0? Prey? Alien: Isolation? There are so many infinitely better written, more compelling, and heartfelt Sci-Fi stories last gen. Horizon doesn't even come close.

They may not have the witty writing or the super memorable characters of witcher 3 or a yakiza game, but the plot, the lore and all the micro details to make it believable were top tier.

World buildling is not what we are talking about here. That is in the background. The issue was the main story, the main characters, the plot directly involving and surrounding the main characters. It was forgettable rubbish.

\Even killzone had a super interesting lore that was never explored in the games. (The reason why you read people cheering for the helgast instead of the isa in hardcore forums)

The major problem with Killzone has always been that piss poor, lackluster story. World building != compelling narrative Sane people don't look at Bloodborne and Dark Souls for having compelling narratives, but they will state that they have some of the best world building in games. Same thing goes for Horizon.

 

[GymWolf]

If you enjoyed it, I would highly suggest you go play Witcher 3, Red Dead Redemption 2, Ghost of Tsushima, hell even Fallout 4 among many others. They are infinitely superior in narrative design.



Yep.


Really? Over NieR Automata? DOOM 2016? Doom Eternal? Titanfall 2? XCom 2? Wolfenstein The New Order? Steins;Gate 0? Prey? Alien: Isolation? There are so many infinitely better written, more compelling, and heartfelt Sci-Fi stories last gen. Horizon doesn't even come close.

World buildling is not what we are talking about here. That is in the background. The issue was the main story, the main characters, the plot directly involving and surrounding the main characters. It was forgettable rubbish.

The major problem with Killzone has always been that piss poor, lackluster story. World building != compelling narrative Sane people don't look at Bloodborne and Dark Souls for having compelling narratives, but they will state that they have some of the best world building in games. Same thing goes for Horizon.

Dude no offense but i stopped reading ad doom 2016, if you really think that doom has a better plot\lore than horizon it is useless to even continue the discussion.

And same goes for a good number of titles in both the lists you made tbh.

What i can concede to you are some non.optimal aspects like:


not many interesting secondary characters

Exagerate use of holograms\audio logs but there is no fucking way to narrate a story that span for 2000 years without them, they were forced to do that (and i personally didn't hated this aspect)

the modern day story wasn't as good as the old day story

maybe unlikeable protagonist for some people, to me her being a cunt sometimes was perfectly justified by how she grow up in solitude and being hated by everyone.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Dude no offense but i stopped reading ad doom 2016, if you really think that doom has a better plot\lore than horizon it is useless to even continue the discussion.

And same goes for almost all the titles in that list tbh.

Translation:

 

[arvfab]

DOOM 2016? Doom Eternal?

Doom had a plot?

 

[GymWolf]

Translation:

More like

 

[StealthGoblin]

If you enjoyed it, I would highly suggest you go play Witcher 3, Red Dead Redemption 2, Ghost of Tsushima, hell even Fallout 4 among many others. They are infinitely superior in narrative design.

Played them all. None of the stories captivated me as much as Horizon’s. Gonzalez pulled a blinder by writing a sci-fi story that pulled in two time periods, a personal link to the main character etc.

You can argue about narrative design, but the quality of a story is subjective and outside of GOW, Horizon and TLOUptII, most games didn’t hold my interest narratively.

 

[Dr. Claus]

More like

Keep covering your ears and refusing to engage, kiddo.

Played them all. None of the stories captivated me as much as Horizon’s. Gonzalez pulled a blinder by writing a sci-fi story that pulled in two time periods, a personal link to the main character etc.

You can argue about narrative design, but the quality of a story is subjective and outside of GOW, Horizon and TLOUptII, most games didn’t hold my interest narratively.

While I may have to ultimately say agree to disagree, I still respect where you are coming from.

Doom had a plot?

It did, surprisingly enough. A good story doesn't need to be long, intricate, or wordy. Just enough to flesh out the world, give you a reason to keep moving forward, and to help characterize the main character. DOOM did it very well, IMO. From Slayer smashing screens, clearly showing a disregard to what Hayden wanted, etc - it was good stuff. Memorable stuff.

Personally I think I preferred Eternal just a bit more, with the history of the Night Sentinels and the backstory of Slayer, the Khan Mayker, and how humanity has evolved and devolved over the centuries. Its still isn't plentiful, but its just enough to keep players engaged, further expand upon the player character, and make each level feel more and more fantastic to go through with the history behind it.

 

[arvfab]

It did, surprisingly enough. A good story doesn't need to be long, intricate, or wordy. Just enough to flesh out the world, give you a reason to keep moving forward, and to help characterize the main character. DOOM did it very well, IMO. From Slayer smashing screens, clearly showing a disregard to what Hayden wanted, etc - it was good stuff. Memorable stuff.

Personally I think I preferred Eternal just a bit more, with the history of the Night Sentinels and the backstory of Slayer, the Khan Mayker, and how humanity has evolved and devolved over the centuries. Its still isn't plentiful, but its just enough to keep players engaged, further expand upon the player character, and make each level feel more and more fantastic to go through with the history behind it.

So it really did? Where? Must have been really subtle...

 

[SenjutsuSage]

The Ability To Create Jobs For Upgrade Parts​

Really want to upgrade your weapon or armor, but don’t feel like searching aimlessly for the part in need? You’re in luck! Now, with a click of a button in the crafting menu, you can create a job to locate the resource you need. This will activate a quest and put a path on the map to where the machines holding them reside. It means you’ll never have to waste time just hoping for a drop, or wondering if you’re in the right place.

This is also a good thing, as machine parts will be more vital this time around. “In [Horizon Zero Dawn], it was more about the metal shards,” de Jonge says. “In this game, we tried to bring the machines and the encounters with the machines more into play, so a lot of the upgrades also cost specific machine resources. You have to go out and hunt specific machines.”

 

[remember_spinal]

Sliding a finger to make ui appear must be the only useful use of the touchpad that ever existed...

For me its just an extra button

 

[GymWolf]

For me its just an extra button

It took the place of the old select to enter menus like weapons\armors\etc.

Now select is the media button that i probably never used in my life.

 

[SLB1904]

It took the place of the old select to enter menus like weapons\armors\etc.

im a huge fan of press to show map. i dont miss pressing pause than select map. now with one click you bring the map up. also its amazing in ghost. probably the best use of d pad

 

[GymWolf]

im a huge fan of press to show map. i dont miss pressing pause than select map. now with one click you bring the map up. also its amazing in ghost. probably the best use of d pad

Most games have select for entering the general menus with maps\inventory etc, but in some games you can directly enter the map if you keep pressed the button, i think mad max and witcher 3 have this thing and some others open world aswell.

Kz4 had an interesting thing going on with the drone and the touchpad but it wasn't exactly super precise in the heat of the battle.

 

[isoRhythm]

I honestly think it was just a psychedelic and inconsistent colour scheme of the HUD making it look worse

Yeah it is a bi cluttered.. buuut they had options to turn off the HUD or use the dynamic HUD. The dynamic HUD was good, health bar only appeared when you healed or took damage, weapons will only show up when you're switching weapons. USE THE DYNAMIC HUD!!

 

[GymWolf]

Just to add another improvement that many people are unaware of, they are probably gonna use the grapple hook for some puzzles:

The second function of the Pullcaster is a winch, meaning the player can dynamically manipulate, move and destroy the objects in the environments. Think about pulling a hidden loot chest from a ledge, or tearing open a vent to create a new climb path."

 

[remember_spinal]

Most games have select for entering the general menus with maps\inventory etc, but in some games you can directly enter the map if you keep pressed the button, i think mad max and witcher 3 have this thing and some others open world aswell.

Kz4 had an interesting thing going on with the drone and the touchpad but it wasn't exactly super precise in the heat of the battle.

The thing about the touchpad is that it can kind of act as multiple buttons if utilized correctly. swipe left, swipe right, swipe up, swipe down, press and hold, double click, quick click. Etc

 

[remember_spinal]

Just to add another improvement that many people are unaware of, they are probably gonna use the grapple hook for some puzzles:

The second function of the Pullcaster is a winch, meaning the player can dynamically manipulate, move and destroy the objects in the environments. Think about pulling a hidden loot chest from a ledge, or tearing open a vent to create a new climb path."

Like Tsushima Iki island

 

[GymWolf]

Like Tsushima Iki island

Yeah but the fact that they say it can used to pull loot chests give me an incredibly small hope that some puzzles are gonna be more physics based than just press a button to grapple, then press many time the button to pull the door like in tsushima.

It was a pretty barebone use in tsushima.

 

[GymWolf]

The thing about the touchpad is that it can kind of act as multiple buttons if utilized correctly. swipe left, swipe right, swipe up, swipe down, press and hold, double click, quick click. Etc

Yeah i know but very few devs utilized that way, days gone has different menus based on the swipe direction, kz4 had the drone, tsushima the wind\bow but i barely remember other games using it...

 

[Jaysen]

Climbing anything and the ability to pull yourself up on ledges is the biggest improvement to me. Can’t wait…to play Elden Ring, and then play the hell out of this.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Maybe it's just this picture - although, I thought I noticed in the demoes as well - but Aloy has that fake hero lighting on her at all times. Even when there's no nearby light source. The rest of the scene looks incredible, but I feel it makes her look like she's been pasted into the scene from somewhere else. I think its especially noticeable on her hair and face. Or maybe I'm just losing my mind :S

I like it

 

[remember_spinal]

 

[Tschumi]

I think I'm hoping they'll introduce new features for exploration

 

[Rest]

By default, the game starts on a minimalist mode, where there’s as little HUD information on the screen as possible,”

I really hate this shit. I'm playing a video game, I want to have all the information about my character visible. That stuff isn't a distraction, it's part of playing the game.

 

[Brigandier]

Hopefully human enemy AI has not just improved but improved dramatically as it was complete utter dog slop in zero dawn.

 

[GymWolf]

I think I'm hoping they'll introduce new features for exploration

They already showed free climbing, glider and grapple hook.

 

[Tschumi]

They already showed free climbing, glider and grapple hook.

Hmmmm i should have been more clear, i mean, "more secrets to find more places to explore more hidden items" whatever whatever

 

[GymWolf]

Hmmmm i should have been more clear, i mean, "more secrets to find more places to explore more hidden items" whatever whatever

They discussed a bit about the grapple hook being able to open secret passages or to pull an unreacheable chest towards you etc. so there is probably something more to discover in the open world compared to the first one.

Since they listened to the most common flaws of the first one, it is almost safe to say that open world is gonna be more interesting to explore (i mean, i hope so)

 

[Tschumi]

They discussed a bit about the grapple hook being able to open secret passages or to pull an unreacheable chest towards you etc. so there is probably something more to discover in the open world compared to the first one.

Since they listened to the most common flaws of the first one, it is almost safe to say that open world is gonna be more interesting to explore.

Nice.. I pre ordered it today, thanks for helping me get more psyched lol... If they take some ideas from BOTW it would only be a good thing

 

[GymWolf]

Nice.. I pre ordered it today, thanks for helping me get more psyched lol... If they take some ideas from BOTW it would only be a good thing

Or from any other open world action games with actual rewarding exploration, you know...

It would be bad to have 900 dinobot seeds to find and bows that break after you shot 15 arrows

 

[Tschumi]

bows that break after you shot 15 arrows