Support NeoGAF

[NEbeast]

No it didn’t? but i guess that’s all that can be expected from the circle jerk.

I don't keep up with the scores, it was definitely over 90 around launch, which was a farce.It's 87 now which is still a joke, the game is a mess and even diehard Halo fans admit it.

 

[Riky]

No it didn’t? but i guess that’s all that can be expected from the circle jerk.

It ended up 87 I think, but it has more content now and runs better, I expect a soft relaunch with Series 3 in November with a lot more content.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I bet this delay happened after the showcase was put togeather. Phil and Matt are probably scrambling right now to get something, anything they can to fill the two massive holes that are in their calendar this year. Wouldnt be surprised to see some last minute day one game pass deals for games like gotham knights or avatar, call of duty and hogwarts have playstation money i think.

I think Gotham Knights might be available (although Sony almost always gets the marketing rights for these superhero games, especially from WB).

On the other hand, I think Sony might have already got the marketing rights for Avatar. Just did a quick search on their respective YouTube channels and found this:

There is no trailer for Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora on the Xbox channel.

For Gotham Knights, it is slightly less obvious. While the Xbox channel does have the new gameplay demo and the reveal trailer, it does not have the pre-order trailer. But PlayStation has all, including the latest pre-order trailer for Gotham Knights.

In addition, last year WB Montreal also started their marketing campaign on the PlayStation Blog after the initial announcement.

They did a recent post on Xbox too, however, so I think Gotham Knights might be up for grabs.

This is, of course, no evidence of anything. But Sony does try to get the marketing rights of these bigger well-known IPs more often than not. If the contracts are signed, I don't see these games going on Gamepass any time soon. Especially, Avatar, as Xbox doesn't even have a trailer of that game on the YouTube channel. Same goes for COD as we know the about the marketing is with Sony until 2024/2025.

 

[BbMajor7th]

Remember when we used to talk about Soony's DelayStation?

On a more serious note, it's clear that MS has a bad habit of overselling. Managing audience expectations has been an issue all throughout the Spencer years: big proclamations followed by PR walk-backs, grudging delays or disappointing releases. They've got to break this cycle otherwise they'll never win trust back with the wider market. Sony promised Demon Souls, Astro's Playroom, Miles Morales, Sackboy, Returnal, Destruction All-Stars and R&C Rift Apart within PS5 launch window and about six months out from launch they'd all hit the market. They're not games that everyone wants, for sure, and some were damp squibs, but they were well polished and feature complete and it cements a sense of trust between publisher and customer that is sorely lacking with MS.

At this stage they need to adopt the Hello Games approach: stop talking and start doing.

 

[Papacheeks]

That statement by Phil in that Letter to the fans from Bethesda to me says, heads are rolling within Enterprise side of the company and this reflects bad on Phil. Who probably is talking to Nadella more now that these issues with studios have been non-stop.

I want to play devi's advocate though as I disagree with Jaffe's Assessment that this is a Microsoft issue.

• Bethesda has a history of similarly announcing games too early, Fall out 4 was the only game that I can remember that was shown/announced close to its launch. Doom/Eternal is another one.
• They actually showed the game off at their event and it launched the next year.(Doom/eTERNAL)
• Bethesda is ran by Zenimax, it's business as usual. I don't associate Redfall and Starfield's delay with Microsoft management because Bethesda game studios is managed by itself and zenimax where Microsoft is the parent owner.
• Where this is Microsoft's fuck up and has been is the fact there's nothing else in their slate from any of their newly owned/internally ran studios?

I remember saying this a while back that if Redfall or starfield were to slip, Microsoft would be in a bad spot as its another year where games that were promised and poised to launch didn't.

Microsoft's issue isn't a project by project case issue, it's systemic one thats deep rooted in how the division is ran, and I think it shows that this systemic issue has been passed on from gen to gen.

Microsoft needed to do soul searching, like Matty mentioned from Defining Duke podcast. First party titles helps give you your identity. Playstation's identity is great story/character themed games. Nintendo's is iconic classic characters and innovative gameplay mechanics.(though its been more about IP brands like Pokemon, Monster hunter IMHO).

Xbox's identity for a while was "Play together", or the place to play with friends. Issue is once the rest of the industry caught up online wise, what are you left with? Halo, forza, gears?
It's like once that happened during 360 era they kind of scratched their heads?

Then doubled down on online/services and integrated TV because enterprise wanted this since the very first xbox with cable.
Honestly would not be surprised if we see more new positions for management at Xbox very soon being announced.

The fact people like ColtEastwood are literally pissed off at Microsoft and fed up I think is the straw that broke the camel's back.

And even with everything being pushed to 2023, I feel the wait is going to not be a good look, on top of if any of their games are not stellar, then I think its going to be what Microsoft doesn't want, which is Gamepass will look devalued because the Ether will be thats its not Synonymous with quality and Consistent content.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Nintendo delayed Breath of the Wild 2. Maybe Sony delays God of War Ragnarök.

No game is safe in 2022.

I've also read a theory that Sony would delay GoW to avoid clashing with those two games. If it's ready I believe it will come out.

 

[Papacheeks]

I've also read a theory that Sony would delay GoW to avoid clashing with those two games. If it's ready I believe it will come out.

I mean the slate is open now for Fall. Modern warfare 2 is the biggest game and they have a marketing deal with it. I think Either Early Fall, or they put it out in December.

Either way any games they launch this fall will make MS look bad any way you slice it. To literally have nothing your entire slate but a possible Racing game is not a good look.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Phil and Matt are probably scrambling right now to get something, anything they can to fill the two massive holes

 

[MasterCornholio]

I mean the slate is open now for Fall. Modern warfare 2 is the biggest game and they have a marketing deal with it. I think Either Early Fall, or they put it out in December.

Either way any games they launch this fall will make MS look bad any way you slice it. To literally have nothing your entire slate but a possible Racing game is not a good look.

It's why I believe if they can release GoW they will. Plus Ragnarok and Winter go together extremely well in marketing.

 

[Zeroing]

Remember when we used to talk about Soony's DelayStation?

I only remember the indieStation

 

[Heisenberg007]

I've also read a theory that Sony would delay GoW to avoid clashing with those two games. If it's ready I believe it will come out.

GoW:R may even release on 11.11.22, who knows . It's a pretty good date, so I reckon other games might also try to target it.

 

[nominedomine]

GoW:R may even release on 11.11.22, who knows . It's a pretty good date, so I reckon other games might also try to target it.

I don't get the appeal of the date but it would be pretty funny. I doubt any other big game will want to share a release date with God of War Ragnarok, Sony will go all in with the marketing for the game.

GoW:R is crossgen so there is some pressure to put it out soon, it's going to be really awkward to be releasing crossgen games in 2023. FFXVI I don't think is crossgen, so it's much easier to release in 2023.

With that said, if the PS5 is still selling out by then it gets pretty easy for Sony to delay it regardless if they need to.

 

[MasterCornholio]

GoW:R may even release on 11.11.22, who knows . It's a pretty good date, so I reckon other games might also try to target it.

Hope so. It would be really good for them to release it before Black Friday. That would be a big seller for sure.

 

[PayoLoko]

I came here for the memes. Not disappointed. Love u all guys

 

[Heisenberg007]

I don't get the appeal of the date but it would be pretty funny. I doubt any other big game will want to share a release date with God of War Ragnarok, Sony will go all in with the marketing for the game.

GoW:R is crossgen so there is some pressure to put it out soon, it's going to be really awkward to be releasing crossgen games in 2023. FFXVI I don't think is crossgen, so it's much easier to release in 2023.

With that said, if the PS5 is still selling out by then it gets pretty easy for Sony to delay it regardless if they need to.

I think up to 40-45 million units, PS5 will just sell like hot cakes.

I want God of War as soon as possible because I'm super hyped. From Sony's perspective though, they can release it or delay it, and it won't make a damn bit difference in PS5 sales. Especially because they have already released so many games, including the two big ones: HFW and GT7.

 

[mckmas8808]

The fact that they’re announcing this delay now, instead of waiting until their summer showcase, makes me wonder if we might not be getting that Starfield deep dive we were hoping for. Wouldn’t it make more sense to announce Starfield‘s delay immediately after they’ve wowed everyone with an in-depth look at the gameplay? The bad news would’ve been mostly drowned out by all the excitement – assuming, of course, that the gameplay they‘ve showed looked great.

And that brings me to my question: what if whatever Bethesda was preparing to show just doesn’t look very good? I‘m sure Phil Spencer wants to avoid another first showing like Halo Infinite, so I wouldn‘t be surprised if all we‘re getting from Starfield during the XBox showcase is another in-engine trailer (maybe with a few gameplay snippets of the protagonist shooting at things, but that‘s it). In that case it would make sense for them not to wait until the showcase to announce the delay, since showing just a another trailer and announcing a delay at the same time would definitely not be well received. Which means proper gameplay probably won‘t be shown until they‘re confident that it will impress people (so maybe the VGAs, or possibly even next year).

I hope I‘m wrong of course, but right now my expectations aren’t particularly high for a possible deep dive in the near future.

The bolded are good points.

 

[mckmas8808]

It's why I believe if they can release GoW they will. Plus Ragnarok and Winter go together extremely well in marketing.

This is why I think GoW will ship this December. It.......just........fits!

Just look at this game and the marketing so far......

 

[Evil Calvin]

With all those company purchases and nothing out this year. Pretty bad. And I just secured a Series X order yesterday...

Well 2023 SHOULD be great ........at least

 

[Heisenberg007]

This is why I think GoW will ship this December. It.......just........fits!

Just look at this game and the marketing so far......

It's so obvious, but I never thought about it lol.

Playing this game in Winter in which Ragnarok is gonna hit and everything is supposed to freeze and die is just so fitting.

 

[mckmas8808]

It's so obvious, but I never thought about it lol.

Playing this game in Winter in which Ragnarok is gonna hit and everything is supposed to freeze and die is just so fitting.

Just look at the beginning of the first released footage too. Just "feels" like winter lol.

 

[93xfan]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.

People were offended when I said Starfield was never even close to being finished since all they showed was concept arts and there was NO CHANCE they would be able to release it this year like they

But they have a pattern of waiting until near release to show off gameplay. You weren’t wrong, but your reasoning is flawed.

You could’ve said the same thing before mid 2011. Your reasoning would’ve failed you back then

 

[AtomicStarving]

Microsoft strategy for Xbox this year is gonna be interesting.

My bet is on: Forza Motorsport 8 and one or two big games on Gamepass day one (Gotham Knights? Saints Row?)

November is totally empty for video game releases.

 

[Kenneth Haight]

Also off topic, WTF IS THIS GUY DOING WITH HIS CONTROLLERS FFS. THIS IS SACRELIGE!!!!!! . Eating fucking oily tempura batter while playing games, dude has no respect for his possessions. Greasy dude.

 

[alucard0712_rus]

Thank God!
Releasing a game to a 'special' date is so soviet.

 

[LordCBH]

 

[mckmas8808]

Also off topic, WTF IS THIS GUY DOING WITH HIS CONTROLLERS FFS. THIS IS SACRELIGE!!!!!! . Eating fucking oily tempura batter while playing games, dude has no respect for his possessions. Greasy dude.

Is a guy like Jez a Microsoft-paid employee? I can't understand it any other way.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Very... interesting framing of what the dude said about the game. He was 95% positive about it, but you make it sound like it's the biggest piece of shit ever. You could work for CNN

"Work" for CNN? I AM CNN!!!!

Yep let's blame Jason now.....

Finally, I found my twin sister!

Oh you mean the games that were greenlit when Mattrick was in charge ?I know you have no problem with this I just find it funny that when spencer were in charge their studios and exclusives took a nosedive but he is viewed as the savior.

Ironic, huh? I think Mattrick gets an unfair bad rap, he's actually lowkey kind of a genius. Him and Mark Cerny both started out very young programming commercial games, it's just that Cerny also took an interest in computer engineering as well; Mattrick went the more businessman route.

But he had an eye for securing quality exclusive content; maybe Spencer would've done that more if the Rise of the Tomb Raider controversy (which to be fair, was mainly on MS's messaging why that happened) never happened. Outside of the Forza games though and I hate to say it but yeah, almost all of the 1P IP have dropped in consistency under his watch, even Gears.

So it's like going out and acquiring these other teams is his answer to reverse that down slope in quality, hopefully we see some of those results this year. I know some want to say things like Flight Sim and Psychonauts 2 should "count", but FS was mainly Asobo (who are an independent 3P dev; also the game was primarily made for PC), and Psychonauts 2 was mostly developed outside of Microsoft's purview and watch. Same for games like Deathloop.

 

[johnjohn]

Very... interesting framing of what the dude said about the game. He was 95% positive about it, but you make it sound like it's the biggest piece of shit ever. You could work for CNN

It was actually pretty promising that he as so positive about it because previously he had been pretty negative about the game. From his recent post it sounds like the game is coming together well. He also admitted he doesn't like Bethesda games lol.

 

[Banjo64]

It's so obvious, but I never thought about it lol.

Playing this game in Winter in which Ragnarok is gonna hit and everything is supposed to freeze and die is just so fitting.

Except in Australia - where it’ll be summer.

 

[twilo99]

Is xbox ded yet?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yep let's blame Jason now.....

Jason's a ripe cunt, but this made me lol.

 

[Borowski_1]

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Also didn't have a Saturn at the time, I only really started playing its library within the past five years tbh, but I've done a lot of research on its history and both of those things were definitely true. $400 launch (granted, it came with a pack-in game and built-in storage; PS1 did not and you had to buy a memory card if you wanted to save any game progress), and it was notoriously difficult to program for. GameHut channel on YT has some great videos on Saturn programming (including things like its DSP).

Thanks for the info but I haven't owned a Saturn in like 15 years. I'm not a collector so once im done with a console especially if im moving on the next generation, the older consoles get sold/traded in. I did enjoy the few games I played. Guardian Heroes, Dark Savior and Resident Evil. I did own Shining Force 3 and Shining the Holy Ark but I don't remember even playing them.

It's the management at the upper branches, it's probably that simple tbh. Not just at the individual studios (well, some of them anyway, like 343i), but in Xbox division, even. I sometimes get the feeling the whole thing with Xbox getting support cut back during the 2016 - 2017 or so period is true, but in even more damning ways.

Like, freezes on 9th-gen console R&D kind of ways, freezes on 1P software development kind of ways, freezes on securing 3P exclusivity contracts kind of ways. And they only probably started investing seriously in the division again after GamePass (and Spencer being able to convince Nadella on Xbox's future via Azure cloud and game subscriptions/streaming), so likely late 2017.

Which kind of lines up with the very first Project Scarlett (and PS5/Oberon) leak coming out early 2018.

I agree completely. I judge Spencer/Xbox based on the start of 2018. Phil became "the man" in Fall 2017 and im like, okay, a few months to settle in, Holidays, etc. So for me, I start with 2018. FoxyGames UK had a tweet listing the Xbox One exclusives for the first 18 months and missed a few and while almost all of them didn't interest me, the lineup was better quantity wise and equal if not better quality wise.

I believe that Phil/Booty need to be more strict. They need to be more hands on. They should be checking in with all of their studios at least once every three months if not more. Basically, they need to start cracking the whip.

If Gotham Knights isn't tied up in a comarketing deal with Sony then yeah, it is probably their best bet. Even if it is, they should just pay Sony out even it that would increase the price. But I also just remembered that Ark 2 is still supposed to come this year? So they might still have something for Xbox and GamePass in terms of a big AAA game after all, we'll have to see.

Otherwise yeah, there's really nothing else they can bring out this year to suddenly replace Starfield or RedFall.

Ark 2 looks bad to me but yeah, it could be a game that fills the massive gap but I would definitely go after Gotham Knights and I would probably overpay for Avatar from Ubisoft. As you know, im not a fan of timed console exclusives at all as I see it as a waste of money but desperate times call for desperate measures. I know they won't do it but if it was me, I would be like, how much money would it take to get Avatar and Gotham Knights as one year timed exclusives? Because they need something.

Only positive is that 2023 looks fucking stacked - ON PAPER. I truly believe that 2023 games will get pushed to 2024. You can already see it coming. But whatever, it is what it is.

 

[DeepEnigma]

This is why I think GoW will ship this December. It.......just........fits!

Just look at this game and the marketing so far......

Yep, and if you go by the Viking Calendar of when Raknarok happens, it leads up through winter in the Gregorian Calendar and explodes full blown in February (was supposed to be 2014, so maybe we are in it IRL).

Releasing in their traditional March is too late. It will be this early/late Fall.

 

[Borowski_1]

This is why I think GoW will ship this December. It.......just........fits!

Just look at this game and the marketing so far......

do you have the full interview/article?

 

[MasterCornholio]

Is xbox ded yet?

Far from it.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

That statement by Phil in that Letter to the fans from Bethesda to me says, heads are rolling within Enterprise side of the company and this reflects bad on Phil. Who probably is talking to Nadella more now that these issues with studios have been non-stop.

I want to play devi's advocate though as I disagree with Jaffe's Assessment that this is a Microsoft issue.

• Bethesda has a history of similarly announcing games too early, Fall out 4 was the only game that I can remember that was shown/announced close to its launch. Doom/Eternal is another one.
• They actually showed the game off at their event and it launched the next year.(Doom/eTERNAL)
• Bethesda is ran by Zenimax, it's business as usual. I don't associate Redfall and Starfield's delay with Microsoft management because Bethesda game studios is managed by itself and zenimax where Microsoft is the parent owner.
• Where this is Microsoft's fuck up and has been is the fact there's nothing else in their slate from any of their newly owned/internally ran studios?

I remember saying this a while back that if Redfall or starfield were to slip, Microsoft would be in a bad spot as its another year where games that were promised and poised to launch didn't.

Microsoft's issue isn't a project by project case issue, it's systemic one thats deep rooted in how the division is ran, and I think it shows that this systemic issue has been passed on from gen to gen.

Microsoft needed to do soul searching, like Matty mentioned from Defining Duke podcast. First party titles helps give you your identity. Playstation's identity is great story/character themed games. Nintendo's is iconic classic characters and innovative gameplay mechanics.(though its been more about IP brands like Pokemon, Monster hunter IMHO).

Xbox's identity for a while was "Play together", or the place to play with friends. Issue is once the rest of the industry caught up online wise, what are you left with? Halo, forza, gears?
It's like once that happened during 360 era they kind of scratched their heads?

Then doubled down on online/services and integrated TV because enterprise wanted this since the very first xbox with cable.
Honestly would not be surprised if we see more new positions for management at Xbox very soon being announced.

The fact people like ColtEastwood are literally pissed off at Microsoft and fed up I think is the straw that broke the camel's back.

And even with everything being pushed to 2023, I feel the wait is going to not be a good look, on top of if any of their games are not stellar, then I think its going to be what Microsoft doesn't want, which is Gamepass will look devalued because the Ether will be thats its not Synonymous with quality and Consistent content.

If any heads are going to roll I think the main one is going to be Matt Booty. He's the one in charge of Xbox Game Studios, he's supposed to be the one regularly checking in on the XGS teams and ensuring things are going smoothly, including providing some type of input where needed. It's pretty evident now between 343i, The Initiative, Rare and potentially even some of the other internal teams (including the 2018 acquisitions) that he is simply not doing all that he can within his job's capacity.

Matt Booty's expertise is with live-service GaaS titles, he comes from Minecraft. So I'm not surprised Sea of Thieves was able to be salvaged and turned into something successful, and I'm also not surprised Halo Infinite turned into a live-service GaaS. However, not every game is a good fit for that model and I kind of think they messed up in turning Halo into a live-service GaaS title.

Also yeah, I saw some of those podcasts and videos yesterday including his and you can definitely see the frustration mounting, as it should. A lot of people, especially diehards, have been waiting for years for major new games that aren't yet more Halo/Gears/Forza, that can go toe-to-toe if not beat games like Uncharted, Horizon, Elden Ring, Zelda, Mario, Assassin's Creed, TLOU etc. in terms of leading the industry in some way creatively, being unmitigated critical & commercial successes, being riveting experiences transcending what a lot of people think the medium is capable of in terms of storytelling etc. In that regard, Microsoft still haven't delivered.

This year seemed like the first time where they might've (well, mostly; Starfield was clearly in development prior to MS acquiring Zenimax but it's likely the past 2-3 years of dev have focused primarily on Xbox Series and not PS5 for that game) had something along those lines, and now it's delayed. And that's on top of the known issues with Perfect Dark, Everwild, Halo Infinite, potentially Fable, etc.

The fact MS's 2022 ultimately hinged on two games from a developer they only happened to acquire a few months after this current generation launched (meaning if for whatever reason the acquisition fell through, those games would've still remained multiplatform at the very least), says a lot. If anything we should've been expecting Hellblade II and Avowed for this year, not Starfield and RedFall. But as you said, upper management issues at the gaming division are most likely to blame.

Thanks for the info but I haven't owned a Saturn in like 15 years. I'm not a collector so once im done with a console especially if im moving on the next generation, the older consoles get sold/traded in. I did enjoy the few games I played. Guardian Heroes, Dark Savior and Resident Evil. I did own Shining Force 3 and Shining the Holy Ark but I don't remember even playing them.

Man, you gotta play the Shining games sometime. I'm playing Shining Force III currently, it's really good. Especially if you're new to SRPGs, it's a good introduction to the genre with a nice balance of challenge and easy pick-up-and-play but still a lot of depth in the Friendship system and things like that.

Plus the story's really great as well

I agree completely. I judge Spencer/Xbox based on the start of 2018. Phil became "the man" in Fall 2017 and im like, okay, a few months to settle in, Holidays, etc. So for me, I start with 2018. FoxyGames UK had a tweet listing the Xbox One exclusives for the first 18 months and missed a few and while almost all of them didn't interest me, the lineup was better quantity wise and equal if not better quality wise.

I believe that Phil/Booty need to be more strict. They need to be more hands on. They should be checking in with all of their studios at least once every three months if not more. Basically, they need to start cracking the whip.

It's almost like they're too scared to be more hands-on out of fears they'll do too much and tons of projects get cancelled again, when really all they need to do is be more even-handed. Find a good balance; Sony and Nintendo don't have an issue with this, generally speaking, I don't understand why it's any more difficult for Microsoft to accomplish that.

Though, I also feel Matt Booty himself is part of the problem, it might be time to find a replacement.

Ark 2 looks bad to me but yeah, it could be a game that fills the massive gap but I would definitely go after Gotham Knights and I would probably overpay for Avatar from Ubisoft. As you know, im not a fan of timed console exclusives at all as I see it as a waste of money but desperate times call for desperate measures. I know they won't do it but if it was me, I would be like, how much money would it take to get Avatar and Gotham Knights as one year timed exclusives? Because they need something.

Only positive is that 2023 looks fucking stacked - ON PAPER. I truly believe that 2023 games will get pushed to 2024. You can already see it coming. But whatever, it is what it is.

Yeah, at this point they're probably going to need some big timed exclusives. Whether or not they can get something like Avatar on GamePass, I doubt it, but even just locking that down for the console, you like how they used to, would be enough and also give a boost to GamePass by relation that most GP subs are coming from the console sales, anyway. MS need to remember that they don't need to lead with GamePass all the time to think they're adding value to Xbox; not every gaming move (especially those where Xbox is involved) has to hinge on whether it fits GamePass or not.

Like, if getting Avatar as a timed exclusive for a year would cost them $100 million on its own for just the console, or $200 million if going into GamePass but that also reducing timed exclusivity to 3 months, that's ultimately MS's decision to make. I personally would pick the former, all things considered. But something else to consider is if any of these other games are even up for them to try nabbing, as Sony might already have deals worked out for a lot of them, wouldn't be surprised if the Avatar game were among them.

And these are all deals that were likely set in place in late 2019 or in 2020 before the consoles even launched.

 

[Mephisto40]

This screams "Starfield is a complete mess and we arent confident of it whatsoever"

 

[Heisenberg007]

Yeah, at this point they're probably going to need some big timed exclusives. Whether or not they can get something like Avatar on GamePass, I doubt it, but even just locking that down for the console, you like how they used to, would be enough and also give a boost to GamePass by relation that most GP subs are coming from the console sales, anyway. MS need to remember that they don't need to lead with GamePass all the time to think they're adding value to Xbox; not every gaming move (especially those where Xbox is involved) has to hinge on whether it fits GamePass or not.

Like, if getting Avatar as a timed exclusive for a year would cost them $100 million on its own for just the console, or $200 million if going into GamePass but that also reducing timed exclusivity to 3 months, that's ultimately MS's decision to make. I personally would pick the former, all things considered. But something else to consider is if any of these other games are even up for them to try nabbing, as Sony might already have deals worked out for a lot of them, wouldn't be surprised if the Avatar game were among them.

And these are all deals that were likely set in place in late 2019 or in 2020 before the consoles even launched.

I shared this post above, highlighting the possibility that Avatar might already be off the table for Xbox/GP and Sony may have already acquired the marketing rights for it.

Link to post: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/official-starfield-and-redfall-delayed-to-2023.1636524/post-266160192

 

[BatSu]

 

[The Eradicator]

Very... interesting framing of what the dude said about the game. He was 95% positive about it, but you make it sound like it's the biggest piece of shit ever. You could work for CNN

Todd Howard himself has said in an old interview that there's a reason why Fallout never had vehicles, and it's because their studio could never figure out how to make it functional. (from an interview with Insomniac's Ted Price before you accuse me of making up the interview)
Since Bethesda is stubbornly still trying to iterate on their Creation Engine, I have zero problem believing the person who said that the flight systems in Starfield were a mess. No reason to doubt that at all. You remember horse riding in Skyrim?

 

[kyliethicc]

This is why I think GoW will ship this December. It.......just........fits!

Just look at this game and the marketing so far......

Nope. Wouldn’t be eligible for Game of the Year at the Geoff’s, which Sony cares about.

And it won’t sell as well. Early November at the latest, or it slips to Feb-March 2023.

 

[mckmas8808]

Nope. Wouldn’t be eligible for Game of the Year at the Geoff’s, which Sony cares about.

And it won’t sell as well. Early November at the latest, or it slips to Feb-March 2023.

You may be right. Which would be stupid of Sony, but whatever. Now that you mention it, Sony has stopped releasing games in December. It's either November or February. Never December or January.

 

[nominedomine]

I'm wondering if they'll resist the temptation to push Starfield further to 11/11/23 so that it lands on a special date.

 

[kyliethicc]

You may be right. Which would be stupid of Sony, but whatever.

It would stupid of Sony to release God of War Ragnarok in December.

Now that you mention it, Sony has stopped releasing games in December. It's either November or February. Never December or January.

Because it’s bad for the game’s critical reception and commercial sales.

Game sales pick up around September through December. They want it out as soon as possible in the fall.

Game critics take most of December off. It’s vacation time. GOTYs are already done.

They want it to win GOTY again, like it did in 2018. Has to be released by November.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Nope. Wouldn’t be eligible for Game of the Year at the Geoff’s, which Sony cares about.

If they buy FromSoftware before TGA, they will still have a PlayStation Studios GOTY either way /s

 

[DeepEnigma]

Nope. Wouldn’t be eligible for Game of the Year at the Geoff’s, which Sony cares about.

And it won’t sell as well. Early November at the latest, or it slips to Feb-March 2023.

11-11-22, Ragnarok is coming!

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Man, you gotta play the Shining games sometime. I'm playing Shining Force III currently, it's really good. Especially if you're new to SRPGs, it's a good introduction to the genre with a nice balance of challenge and easy pick-up-and-play but still a lot of depth in the Friendship system and things like that.

Plus the story's really great as well

Nah, man. That time is long gone for me. I know that they're great games but simply, time is past.

It's almost like they're too scared to be more hands-on out of fears they'll do too much and tons of projects get cancelled again, when really all they need to do is be more even-handed. Find a good balance; Sony and Nintendo don't have an issue with this, generally speaking, I don't understand why it's any more difficult for Microsoft to accomplish that.

Though, I also feel Matt Booty himself is part of the problem, it might be time to find a replacement.

Microsoft needs to be hands off once a game is greenlighted in regards to the creative process but should be hands on for updates, deadlines, etc. As for Booty, I think he's spread thin. Microsoft needs another person in the same position as Booty to oversee the studios. This way, they can split the workload.

Yeah, at this point they're probably going to need some big timed exclusives. Whether or not they can get something like Avatar on GamePass, I doubt it, but even just locking that down for the console, you like how they used to, would be enough and also give a boost to GamePass by relation that most GP subs are coming from the console sales, anyway. MS need to remember that they don't need to lead with GamePass all the time to think they're adding value to Xbox; not every gaming move (especially those where Xbox is involved) has to hinge on whether it fits GamePass or not.

Like, if getting Avatar as a timed exclusive for a year would cost them $100 million on its own for just the console, or $200 million if going into GamePass but that also reducing timed exclusivity to 3 months, that's ultimately MS's decision to make. I personally would pick the former, all things considered. But something else to consider is if any of these other games are even up for them to try nabbing, as Sony might already have deals worked out for a lot of them, wouldn't be surprised if the Avatar game were among them.

And these are all deals that were likely set in place in late 2019 or in 2020 before the consoles even launched.

I agree completely. However, Sony has COD MW 2 and Hogwarts Legacy marketing. Not sure if they would really pay for more in the same time frame. I would choose the former as well sacrificing Game Pass day one for one year exclusivity because being an exclusive will get more people into Xbox due to not wanting to wait to play the game. This does work where as with Game Pass, unless you're already in (or someone like me who only subs for a month when there's a new release I want to play), majority would just buy the game regardless.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I shared this post above, highlighting the possibility that Avatar might already be off the table for Xbox/GP and Sony may have already acquired the marketing rights for it.

Link to post: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/official-starfield-and-redfall-delayed-to-2023.1636524/post-266160192

Appreciate it, and gave it a read. Makes perfect sense when you think about it; Sony tend to have a good eye out for games like this (and let's say they have passed on Gotham Knights by some chance...they likely would have the Suicide Squad game comarketing rights instead, if not both), and I strongly doubt they would pass up the opportunity to secure marketing rights for a AAA Avatar game when they likely would've been securing that in 2020 if not earlier.

Really paints a dire situation for Microsoft insofar as securing a major 3P AAA game for timed exclusivity to even Xbox, let alone in GamePass Day 1, for this year or even 2023. Unless Saint's Row counts. I can see how this makes some think MS should buy another studio or publisher sooner rather than later but especially in light of these recent delays, I don't think a lot of gamers or the industry would feel happy or be supportive of that type of move at all, especially at the current time.

MS are just kind of a rock stuck in a hard place and will probably have to weather out this period until at least Forza Motorsport and Halo Infinite Season 3 come through, and that's assuming they're impressive enough (especially HI Season 3, it needs to actually be a big deal). TBH I think it's the delayed cost of the bad decisions in managing Xbox division through the 2016 - 2020 period catching up with them now.

If they can weather the storm, they can maybe finally start changing things around for the longer term. If Starfield & RedFall come out, Avowed & Hellblade II land, etc. and they can establish a steady flow of 1P games (and ecosystem exclusives), then they may be able to start turning things around for the longer-term.

Nah, man. That time is long gone for me. I know that they're great games but simply, time is past.

It's never too late to play a great game IMO

Microsoft needs to be hands off once a game is greenlighted in regards to the creative process but should be hands on for updates, deadlines, etc. As for Booty, I think he's spread thin. Microsoft needs another person in the same position as Booty to oversee the studios. This way, they can split the workload.

If that's the case Booty is spread thin for this, then maybe he isn't the right person for the job. I mean, it's like maybe 10 teams in total he's managing? Meanwhile Pete Hines is managing all the Zenimax/Bethesda teams, and a third guy will manage all the ABK studios, all three under Phil Spencer. So why should XGS require two people to do what a single, more competent person could do?

I agree completely. However, Sony has COD MW 2 and Hogwarts Legacy marketing. Not sure if they would really pay for more in the same time frame.

I think you're underestimating Sony's willingness to secure exclusive content for PlayStation. Remember there were the rumors in 2020 they went around paying for timed exclusives etc. from pretty much every major developer in the industry? Well, those look more and more true as time goes on. They seem to have basically taken that strategy and kicked it into overdrive, and are probably still doing it.

Microsoft could definitely compete with some of those today, but I don't think they were willing to bother during the 2019 - 2020 period when deals for games we're getting now and into 2023/2024 might've had deals signed.

I would choose the former as well sacrificing Game Pass day one for one year exclusivity because being an exclusive will get more people into Xbox due to not wanting to wait to play the game. This does work where as with Game Pass, unless you're already in (or someone like me who only subs for a month when there's a new release I want to play), majority would just buy the game regardless.

Yeah, I agree. Tho I think there's some circumstantial evidence that Avatar might be off the table, in the off chance it's still a possibility, Microsoft needs to go hard and pay whatever price WB would want for it on Xbox as a year-long exclusive. Although unless Avatar comes out this year, it doesn't really do anything for their 2022 situation.

 

[CamHostage]

The fact that they’re announcing this delay now, instead of waiting until their summer showcase, makes me wonder if we might not be getting that Starfield deep dive we were hoping for. Wouldn’t it make more sense to announce Starfield‘s delay immediately after they’ve wowed everyone with an in-depth look at the gameplay? The bad news would’ve been mostly drowned out by all the excitement – assuming, of course, that the gameplay they‘ve showed looked great.

No, I don't think so. (For one thing, Bethesda and Microsoft are public companies, and so they do have to take certain actions in a timely basis rather than letting stock run wild and then crater on damaging speculation, though I'm not sure if this announcement lines up with any FY messaging?) Having a big showcase for Starfield the same day as announcing the missed date for Starfield would make for only one headline out of that whole show: "STARFIELD DELAYED". This way, they pull the bandaid off, regroup and reset their plans, position the products that they really want to get noticed in better spots now that their mega-blockbuster isn't taking that slot, and still give Starfield a great showing but with some pullback in knowing that they'll still have to promote this thing in 2023 as well. The Good News/Bad News approach can work (Sony did it with Horizon FW last year,) but you don't want your bad news to dominate when you have a lot of other products riding on an event delivering good news.