Support NeoGAF

[Spukc]

add free fleshlight en pornhub vr sub.
watch countries shut down borders

 

[Trogdor1123]

Glad I got one already.

I think everyone hoping for PSVR2 for less than $500 just got kicked in the nuts.

Well, what is it that drives cost on these? Is it the chips? The screens? The optics? The wireless features and batteries? The sensors?

What costs the most? Sony doesn’t need the chips or wireless and makes their own optics don’t they?

 

[CobraAB]

Meta looking for ways to raise revenue I guess.

 

[rofif]

Glad I got one already.

I think everyone hoping for PSVR2 for less than $500 just got kicked in the nuts.

psvr2 is just a screen and sensors.
No battery, cpu, gpu, nothing like that

 

[SmokedMeat]

Good. VR is just a gimmick, just like the Move and Kinect.

Except it's more expensive, which makes it an expensive gimmick.

The most ignorant take I’ve seen so far.

 

[ThatOneGrunt]

I had an Oculus CV1 and loooooved it. And then for no reason it just stopped working and I was crushed. Every once in a while Ill go onto amazon to see if someone is selling the Quest 2 for cheap, used. And randomly today I checked at saw it at an amazing price. Thought about it and moved on. Then I saw this article.

Guess who just bought themselves a new Quest 2?

I love VR. Really enjoy it. But $400 is too high an entry level price considering how old this hardware is. Not mention, even though I can find a lot of fun content for myself, the number of AAA games in VR is somewhat lacking.

 

[XXL]

Wtf. Lol

 

[Punished Miku]

psvr2 is just a screen and sensors.
No battery, cpu, gpu, nothing like that

More expensive screen, controllers, cameras, sensors, haptics. But you have a point.

 

[PonyStation4]

Wait, what? I was going to get one some day but if the price is going up then forget about it. Is it that in demand? How does this make any kind of sense?

Quest 2 was being sold at a big loss. Considering their VR department as a whole has been a huge negative to their company, this is their way of salvaging it.

 

[FloopCookiefix]

Spoken like a VR virgin.

So... a VRgin?

 

[AJUMP23]

Thanks Obama.

 

[XXL]

Imagine for 5 seconds that the PS5 and Series X raised their price by $100.....

The outrage would be insane.

People lost their minds about $10. Lol.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

Quest 2 is a great headset, but Facebook’s whole “metaverse” concept was always idiotic, particularly its association with things like NFTs, so hopefully they can turn away from that and focus on normal gaming.

 

[DGrayson]

The price you pay for not have them harvest your data, I suppose.

Ya i thought the exact same.

 

[Ozriel]

Welp.. steam deckard is it

That’s not going to be cheap. Don’t let the Steamdeck pricing fool you. They’ll have to put in high res OLED displays, better cooling, tracking hardware and motion controllers.

 

[Kev Kev]

Quest 2 was being sold at a big loss.

Aaaaah ok, I see.

Considering their VR department as a whole has been a huge negative to their company, this is their way of salvaging it.

Eh, just because they sold it at a loss and have now raised the price doesn't necessarily mean it was a failure or that they are salvaging it. VR is only in it's infancy and the Quest 2 was wildly popular. I think it's only the beginning for Meta and VR.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Ah the Tesla form of pricing. Just change the price suddenly on some day.
Kind of like how I used to play Sim City back in the day. Raise taxes, on a whim

 

[Cert.in.Death]

Oof.

Inflation aside, the optics are brutal. They should've just tried to raise the price in line with actual rates rather than by whole numbers to try and dispel the idea that they're just seizing the opportunity.

 

[PonyStation4]

Aaaaah ok, I see.



Eh, just because they sold it at a loss doesn't mean it was a failure or that thy are salvaging it. VR is only in it's infancy and the Quest 2 was wildly popular. I think it's only the beginning for Meta and VR.

You need to look at the financial situation of the company. Shareholders do not want them throwing away money just to slow down how fast their VR department is sinking.

 

[Amory]

lol what? is this unprecedented?

a) it's not even that new of a product anymore and
b) from their perspective i thought they'd be trying to get as many of these into people's hands as possible in preparation for us all to abandon reality and live in facebook land

 

[BackBackPunch]

The price you pay for not have them harvest your data, I suppose.

https://about.fb.com/news/2022/07/meta-accounts-and-horizon-profiles-for-vr/

I'm pretty sure they are still going to harvest data from this.

First they say this, which sounds good:

Your Meta account is not a social media profile; it lets you log into your VR devices and view and manage your purchased apps in one place. In the future, we’ll extend Meta account functionality so you can use it to log into other Meta devices.

But then they follow up with this:

After you finish creating a Meta account, you’ll be prompted to create a Meta Horizon profile. Your Meta Horizon profile is your social profile in VR and other surfaces, like from a web browser. You can customize how you appear to others — as a gamer or as your buttoned-up 9-to-5 persona. You can choose your Meta Horizon profile username that’s unique to you (e.g. WarriorMama365), the profile name that will be displayed to others while you’re in VR (e.g. Monique Smith), your profile photo, avatar and more. You can create one Meta Horizon profile per Meta account. Your Oculus friends will become your followers, similar to how it works on Instagram. This update provides more ways to be social and connect with others. You can choose whether to share your active status and activity updates, like the apps you own and your achievements, with your followers. If you already own a Meta VR headset, your Oculus friends will automatically become your followers and you’ll follow them back by default. You can choose to unfollow anyone or remove followers at any time.

 

[Kev Kev]

You need to look at the financial situation of the company. Shareholders do not want them throwing away money just to slow down how fast their VR department is sinking.

The economy is uncertain right now. I think they’ll bounce back in the long run and VR will be a big success for them.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

You need to look at the financial situation of the company. Shareholders do not want them throwing away money just to slow down how fast their VR department is sinking.

The shareholders aren't dictating how meta uses their capital.

 

[jaysius]

https://about.fb.com/news/2022/07/meta-accounts-and-horizon-profiles-for-vr/

I'm pretty sure they are still going to harvest data from this.

First they say this, which sounds good:


But then they follow up with this:

It’s still FB drones behind it.
Even if they’re not overtly disclosing what they’re capturing they’ve probably stuffed it in the Quest TOS or EULA to steal all your data.

 

[Boy bawang]

I guess I'll keep my money for Labor VR kit 2 on Switch pro instead.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

Definitely a part of the equation here--gradual implosion of "metaverse" and NFT nonsense that they tried to hook into at Facebook. Get that out of VR and you're left with a nice headset but a higher price.

 

[isual]

It is most likely because of costs on the rise and logistics. I think they understand the short term losses, but with the meta accounts available next month without the need of a real FB account, the long term ecosystem will be worth it.

 

[Sosokrates]

Its a solid piece of tech for the old price but this move is trying to put the shit back in the horse. If it debuted at 399 they would have a more compelling case. This is just bizarre a reeks of greed. (even if the numbers say something else)

Yeah its good value when you sum up all your getting. But I was expecting something better then my galaxy s6 gear VR in every criteria.

The poor black levels, the ghosting issues, inaccurate ipd, uncomfortable strap was really disapointing.

Other batches may have had better lenses, but that was my experience eith it.

They need to solve all these issues for quest 3, switching to OLED, having a better strap, not having ghosting, a better FOV etc are not that expensive to solve

 

[Sgt.Asher]

Sure as hell not getting one now

 

[64bitmodels]

God damn it, and i was gonna get one too
299 was perfect, 399 is too much
guess i gotta wait for Valve's VR thing- hopefully it comes out sooner than later

 

[jshackles]

Usually tech products go down in price as they get older....

There can't still be high demand?

We live in unusual times. For example, here is the average inflation rate (yoy) for consumer goods in the US since 1982

See how that's been relatively stable, with a few little ups and downs? That's probably the span you've lived your entire life. Certainly it's the span where most people consider modern gaming devices to exist. Now look at the end of that graph - see how it's jumped from nearly 0 at the beginning of 2020 to over 8% now? There are also no indicators that this will slow down or reverse course any time soon.

Before, companies could reliably predict what the value of money would do over the lifespan of the products they released. When Sony and Microsoft landed on $500 for their new game consoles, they couldn't have predicted that global runaway inflation would happen immediately following that. Because money is worth less now than it was in 2020, Microsoft and Sony should be charging about $530 for those consoles now to make the same profit margin as they used to when they first released. And this isn't even taking into account for things like global chip supply shortages, increased transportation costs to deliver these goods to end users, and all the other factors that should be putting pressure on these companies to increase prices.

Facebook Meta, instead of just eating those costs, have decided to pass them on to consumers instead. The demand for these few-years-old headsets is largely irrelevant.

 

[Dream-Knife]

We live in unusual times. For example, here is the average inflation rate (yoy) for consumer goods in the US since 1982

See how that's been relatively stable, with a few little ups and downs? That's probably the span you've lived your entire life. Certainly it's the span where most people consider modern gaming devices to exist. Now look at the end of that graph - see how it's jumped from nearly 0 at the beginning of 2020 to over 8% now? There are also no indicators that this will slow down or reverse course any time soon.

Before, companies could reliably predict what the value of money would do over the lifespan of the products they released. When Sony and Microsoft landed on $500 for their new game consoles, they couldn't have predicted that global runaway inflation would happen immediately following that. Because money is worth less now than it was in 2020, Microsoft and Sony should be charging about $530 for those consoles now to make the same profit margin as they used to when they first released. And this isn't even taking into account for things like global chip supply shortages, increased transportation costs to deliver these goods to end users, and all the other factors that should be putting pressure on these companies to increase prices.

Facebook Meta, instead of just eating those costs, have decided to pass them on to consumers instead. The demand for these few-years-old headsets is largely irrelevant.

At the same time though CPUs and GPUs have gone down significantly.

Of course with the way things are looking, in another year we might not care about consumer electronics.

 

[jshackles]

At the same time though CPUs and GPUs have gone down significantly.

I dunno, looks like a lot of other manufacturers are following this trend. GPU prices went down quite a bit since the demand went down significantly with the price of bitcoin

Intel Announces CPU Price Hikes, Hopes to Spur Near-Term Purchases

Intel wants to reduce its current oversupply

www.tomshardware.com

Intel plans to raise CPU prices this year

Inflation is starting to take its toll on the PC market.

www.theverge.com

Of course with the way things are looking, in another year we might not care about consumer electronics.

You're probably right about this one, unfortunately.

 

[Reallink]

God damn it, and i was gonna get one too
299 was perfect, 399 is too much
guess i gotta wait for Valve's VR thing- hopefully it comes out sooner than later

Again, the shittiest Steamdeck is $399 with a garbage tier display, rudimentary controls, simple motion/tracking technologies, all housed in a basic giant slab. An all-in-one VR headset will need to be even more powerful than the Deck, have its guts miniaturized to like 1/4th the size, include expensive lenses, displays that cost 10x+ more than the Decks, complicated adjustments/straps mechanisms, high quality headphones, ridiculously complex controllers, tracking, and motion technologies. There is absolutely no chance a "Deckard" product launches less than $800-$1000. The Index controllers alone cost as much as the old Quest 2 price. Valve's hardware will always command a price premium relative to Facebook and Sony.

 

[KXVXII9X]

I have defended Meta a lot and think they have provided a lot for VR, but they seem to erase a lot of goodwill by making asinine choices. I feel like this will be another set back for both Meta Quest headsets and VR.

I would honestly hold out for PSVR2 and the Meta Quest 3 if I were looking.

I guess this tells us that requiring a Facebook account allowed them to lower the price.

 

[Portugeezer]

In half a year it will be available for $300 if you link your Facebook.

 

[fart town usa]

The price you pay for not have them harvest your data, I suppose.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Lupin3]

The price you pay for not have them harvest your data, I suppose.

It's Meta. They'll take everything there is to take.

 

[AJUMP23]

Meta is short for meta data because that is what they sell.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Glad I got one already.

I think everyone hoping for PSVR2 for less than $500 just got kicked in the nuts.

Sony is an electronics company. Their advantage is in-house sourcing of components such as displays and cameras and their expertise in manufacturing. They should be able to produce PSVR2 at a cheaper price than $500.

 

[0neAnd0nly]

 

[Torrent of Pork]

Does it at least come with a complementary bottle of Sweet Baby Ray's?

 

[Reallink]

We live in unusual times. For example, here is the average inflation rate (yoy) for consumer goods in the US since 1982

See how that's been relatively stable, with a few little ups and downs? That's probably the span you've lived your entire life. Certainly it's the span where most people consider modern gaming devices to exist. Now look at the end of that graph - see how it's jumped from nearly 0 at the beginning of 2020 to over 8% now? There are also no indicators that this will slow down or reverse course any time soon.

Before, companies could reliably predict what the value of money would do over the lifespan of the products they released. When Sony and Microsoft landed on $500 for their new game consoles, they couldn't have predicted that global runaway inflation would happen immediately following that. Because money is worth less now than it was in 2020, Microsoft and Sony should be charging about $530 for those consoles now to make the same profit margin as they used to when they first released. And this isn't even taking into account for things like global chip supply shortages, increased transportation costs to deliver these goods to end users, and all the other factors that should be putting pressure on these companies to increase prices.

Facebook Meta, instead of just eating those costs, have decided to pass them on to consumers instead. The demand for these few-years-old headsets is largely irrelevant.

Problem with this logic is that Quest 2 has outsold FB's most optimistic projections several times over. They designed and priced the device realistically expecting to sell a few million units, resulting in reduced economies of scale and a much more expensive BoM. Instead they sold 15-20+ million, meaning the cost per unit is much cheaper than they were ever forecasting. So even with wild component inflation it's still likely cheaper to build now than it was the first 6 months to 1 year.

The finger should really be pointed at them over hiring and over paying esoteric mad scientists who've drained $10 billion dollars a year working on science fiction shit that'll never make it into a product. This is something Carmack himself has complained about in his long form Oculus Connect speeches, lamenting how he could never get people to work on practical stuff with big short term gains. Everyone gravitated to pie in the sky shit that's never going to pan out. Meanwhile an unknown company Chinese company called Pico has managed to produce an arguably better Quest 2 with a fraction of a fraction of the resources.

 

[reksveks]

 

[Baki]

This will certainly ease the pressure on Sony to provide a low price for their headset.

Meta's been bleeding money subsidizing its VR business, so it does make sense they feel the need to do this. They managed to get critical mass of users with the low price and make Quest 2 a success, and right now there's no real competition pressuring them. This price increase will likely also help with the upcoming Cambria that's supposed to be much more expensive. People would no doubt ask whether a significantly higher price tag device would be worth it compared to a cheap quest 2.

PSVR2 is not even remotely competition for the Quest. One is a niche device (PSVR2) and the other is mainstream.

I must say, this price hike means FB earnings tomorrow is not going to be pretty.

 

[Neilg]

Facebook Meta, instead of just eating those costs, have decided to pass them on to consumers instead. The demand for these few-years-old headsets is largely irrelevant.

Your point about inflation is all valid, but I feel like everyone is forgetting these standalone headsets undercut view only ones that needed a PC and had decent quality at the time.
These were massively subsidized by the idea of data harvesting.

The pitch was you could get a model of who a person was through their Facebook (which already exists), but then also track what they look at in VR, and how long for. Shitloads of money was being thrown at this. I did a lot of work in VR in the early days of it (was briefly the cto of a vr creative agency, lol)
If you could use some phrases hinting at an ability to focus group / track engagement, you got a blank chequebook. VC's were giving guys that hadn't even written any code yet millions for an idea everyone else was having.
'Imagine a popular lifestyle magazine app, but you could change some product placement across all 5m viewers and track what was looked at, how long for, compare the variations...' - in theorey, that data is very valuable to someone.
Facebook were the only ones who might be able to pull it off because they could force the account linking, but now they have data that shows VR users aren't a general enough slice of the population to be useful or valuable in marketing.
The whole approach was flawed, the chequebooks have closed and it's time to stop the bleeding. Oh shit and inflation too...

 

[kraspkibble]

The price you pay for not have them harvest your data, I suppose.

jokes on you if you think they are not going to harvest your data just because you don't link a facebook account.

facebook is trying to track everyone. even if you don't make a facebook account they will make one for you. it's a "ghost account". say your friend "John" has a FB account and John has your name, email, or phone number saved in his phone then FB will see that and start building a profile. Now say your friend "Mike" also has a FB and your number then they know you, John, and Mike know each other. That's just from knowing someone who has a FB and has your number saved. Imagine what else they can do.

Now let's say you have had a FB account well you're pretty much screwed. They know what devices you use (not just "an iPhone" but this particular iPhone. they have device IDs), your IP address, email, name, what sites you visit, your online habits, etc.

So say your name is "Scott Brown", have an iPhone 13, your IP is 147.82.394.88, you live in Austin, Texas. Your email is scott.srjb@gmail.com, and you always visit Neogaf.com. That's enough to track you. You log into a your Meta account and they say oh look! We have a FB/ghost account that matches all that! Great, now we can keep tracking them!

You have no privacy from facebook and it doesn't matter in the slightest if you don't use a FB account with your Quest. They are still collecting your data...but hey if paying them an extra $100 makes you feel better keep telling yourself they aren't.

 

[reksveks]

The current ARPU per year is about 30/40 usd globally. Whilst I think US users are probably more valuable, I don't think it's meaningful in terms of reducing the cost too much. Quest data isn't that valuable relative to all the other data they are getting.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I would expect number 3 to be launching soon wouldn't it.

How are we entering a recession and shut is going up in price lol. Guess they gotta milk the less people who are buying.

Is it component pricing?

 

[reksveks]

I would expect number 3 to be launching soon wouldn't it.

How are we entering a recession and shut is going up in price lol. Guess they gotta milk the less people who are buying.

Is it component pricing?

Quest 3 is still 12 months away, quest Pro is this year but its a very different price point (1500 usd). There might be another ar glasses set this year.